Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - I'm flummoxed.

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

I'm so confused by this team. It's not at all what I thought it could be.

How many times will we have to endure LaFleur say "not good enough" for the lack of touches for Aaron Jones? He's trapped in the full autonomy and trust he has put into Rodgers, but ultimately, he has the authority to order it gets resolved.

We're back to "the Packers are soft" again. Certainly, Saleh's half-time speech shows that the league knows it.

Is LaFleur getting after his guys like this to ramp up the intensity and punish the opponent? We have no way of knowing, but given his personality, it's not likely.

Quay Walker looks lost out there. He's being asked to do things he's not ready for and now I think he's lost some confidence. He's not ready to take on offensive linemen in the scrum. He's not ready to rush the passer from the middle - why in the world wouldn't the Packers try to scheme him to come on the edge where his speed would be an asset?

AJ Dillon has shown no explosiveness. Wrote about this a few weeks ago, he's being tentative, which slows him down, and without that momentum, he's much easier to bring down.

Is it more likely that all these players together are suddenly declining at the same time or that the schemes they're being put in are flawed? 

 

Intensity and speed. Watch other NFL games and what you notice is the speed and intensity the teams play with, especially defensively. It's attitude and coaching, mostly, the talent across the league is fairly equal. It's creating a culture of aggressiveness - exactly what has happened with the Giants and Jets with their new head coach hires who came in and lit some major sparks. 

Why are teams playing man coverage against the Packers so much? A lack of "dynamic" receivers that will make a defense pay for that approach. They're confident that they'll be able to contest every ball against Lazard, Cobb & co. What's been needed all season is better use of the tight ends and running backs as receivers. They did better with this against the Jets, but when your offensive line implodes on you, it doesn't much matter who you're throwing to.

The other thing that could help is not running so much spread, where receivers are expected to get open on their own. A basic tenet of the spread offense is to stretch the field with your speed receivers. The Packers don't have the personnel at WR right now to do that - they still try, but success has been limited and everything is contested. Rodgers seems to dislike motion, bunch formations and scheming receivers open - and it shows.

We heard how this defense was going to be all about guys "flying around." We saw it for a couple of games, and then it disappeared. Now it's all about "play it safe." How is that working out? 

I've always killed the Packers (mostly Rodgers) on their habit of wasting timeouts simply because they can't get the play off in time. Well with 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter and a 2nd and 17 on the Jets' 40 (thanks to a holding penalty), they then proceed to take a delay of game penalty. Now 2nd and 22! If there ever was a situation to use a timeout, this was it! Instead, they dig a deeper hole. 

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

10 points

Comments (94)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
PackEyedOptimist's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:26 am

I’ve come to the conclusion that MLF needs to cut players and coaches to right this ship. The unemotional optimistic facade only works if there is still a hard, bottom line; otherwise it is read as “flexibly weak.” You can’t keep drawing lines in the sand if they don’t have REAL consequences.
Maybe benching would be enough, but I think that ship may have sailed with Amari and Newman getting so much slack, all along.

10 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:35 am

If Newman lines up ANYWHERE on the O-Line this weekend I will give up all hope on ANYTHING getting better under MLF. And trust me, there's not much hope right now.

10 points
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stockholder's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:39 am

Think about why they drafted Rhyan. He wasn't ever projected to be a OT. And Jenkins never played on the Right side. ( Like Wagnor and Turner did.) Who both gave Newman a Heads up. Jenkins Can't/Won't, he's learning.
If they move Jenkins back. He still can sub at LT. That way Runyan and Newman can rotate.
The biggest mistake was thinking Hanson could be Patrick.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 19, 2022 at 04:41 pm

Hanson’s favor was baffling in preseason and only got less comprehensible. A sign of the issues to come I think.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:32 am

What Robert Saleh said after the game SHOULD be taped and put on a loop then played throughout the Packer's PA System for the REST of the season. If THAT doesn't motivate this coaching staff, players, hell and secretaries, and water boys NOTHING will. I had heard about it and now just listened to it. Damn, get it together!

I honestly believe MLF has zero answers for what is going on. He says the same damn thing after every game and looks like he's aged 10 years in the last 6 weeks. If things don't change DRAMATICALLY after that Jets game he's cooked as a HC for a while. No one will touch him until he grows some balls.

If Rodgers dislikes motion so much then BENCH HIS ASS. Opposing defenses aren't scared of ANY Packer's WR and it shows. Unless MLF takes a hold of this offense he'll be unemployed very soon. Rodgers doesn't give a damn, he holds ALL the cards with that RIDICULOUS contract he signed. Hey, do you think Denver would want to swap Rodgers for Wilson?

10 points
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egbertsouse's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:52 am

Nobody in the organization has any balls. Rodgers gets pissy and wants out and instead of trading him for a crapload of picks and starting the rebuild we all know is coming, they give him the keys to the vault and the car. Now MLF can’t get Aaron Jones more touches because Diva might get pissed off and have a hissy. The lack of fortitude starts with Murphy and permeates down through Gutey and MLF. They treat Rodgers like that kid in the Twilight Zone who everyone was petrified of because he might turn them into a jack-in- the-box. When the players see the softness emanating from the top, how can they help being soft?

5 points
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EnemyTerritory's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:12 am

This organization fires coaches only as a last resort. Only Ray Rhodes got the axe early. MLF is going nowhere. As is this team

4 points
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jurp's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:36 am

McCarthy was fired mid-season; Rhodes was fired at the end of the season.

3 points
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Guam's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:40 am

I have been and will continue to be critical of MLF, but I believe the larger problem is Rodgers. The Packers do not have any receivers that can consistently beat man coverage, yet we never see bunch formations or motion or any other man-beater concepts. Why not? Rodgers doesn't like them because it makes it harder for him to read the defense. As long as Rodgers insists on having it his way despite not having the personnel to execute his offense, the Packers will flounder offensively.

Many have said that MLF should man up and demand Rodgers run the right offense for the Packers personnel. Great idea, but the massive contract Murphy gave to Rodgers gives him control of the team. Rodgers either gets his way or retires and guts the team financially. MLF has no leverage to get Rodgers to comply.

This is not a defense of MLF. I believe, as others do, that he is an OC who was not ready for a head coaching job. Unfortunately a strong coach wouldn't fare any better with Rodgers. Right now Rodgers is holding all of the cards and will do as he pleases until he retires or Murphy has the courage to show him the door and take the consequences of this ridiculous contract.

And the Packers could have gotten a King's ransom from Denver for this guy.........Sheesh!

5 points
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Cubbygold's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:43 am

Agree 100%. Hard to defend MLF, but also hard to criticize the guy when you've got a front office that has tried to simultaneously 'go all in' for a championship by signing their QB to a massive deal, while also trying to be competitive in the future by spending first round draft capital on a QB and developmental prospects like Wyatt and Rhyan.

Too much indecisiveness from leadership has set MLF up to fail, but the greatest disappointment will always be Rodgers. I love that the guy spends all this time crafting this image that he's this thoughtful, spiritual, grounded person, but takes every last cent the team will give him, preventing them from putting the talent on the field necessary to win. If the dude had any awareness at all he'd realize that he's got enough money and the lack of a second championship is going to eat at him for his entire retirement.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 19, 2022 at 04:45 pm

At this point Rodgers+LaFleur is a disaster. We can’t cut Ridgers and he is still talented. We can cut LaFleyr, change attitudes and try to give Rodgers a more aggressive O and the chance to play within it while changing the team culture as a whole. Nothing else will do more than bandage.

2 points
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Swisch's picture

October 19, 2022 at 05:36 pm

Guam, your comment seems so sensible and insightful that it brings upon me a bout of sadness in its stark recognition of the mistakes of the past, the conundrum of the present, and the dilemma of the future.
It's better to face reality, though, rather than to pretend.
***
One exasperating matter for me is why give a player a contract that cripples the team financially if he retires. How does that even work?
***
In defense of Rodgers, perhaps it was a major error in judgement to hire a coach who runs an offense that goes against the grain of a long-established superstar quarterback.
In other words, the hiring of LaFleur may have been unfair to Rodgers in asking him to change so much so late in his career.
On the other hand, the LaFleur offense would seem to be perfect for Rodgers so late in his career, because it doesn't require the quarterback to carry the team.
Rodgers could be the maestro of a multi-faceted operation of mostly small ball that keeps defenses guessing, which would set up selective but effective opportunities for big plays downfield.
***
To the extent that the LaFleur offense has been implemented with the Packers -- it's hard to know how extensively -- it's been highly successful as far as three seasons of 13 wins and a couple of playoff victories, plus two MVPs for Rodgers.
Yet, an ongoing tension between LaFleur and Rodgers as to decisions for the offense may be the cause of all the ultimate playoff disappointments that have been so painful to watch.
Perhaps it's a matter of the LaFleur offense going so much against the temperament of Rodgers -- and even his talent -- that our quarterback is simply unable to accommodate it. He may feel that it forces him to bend so much against his strengths and inclinations that he would break.
Then again, perhaps it's Rodgers being unwilling to work the offense because of stubbornness and arrogance.
In any case, it's a mess.
Perhaps the two can figure it out, or perhaps one has to go.
Either way, let's hope it's quickly.
P.S. If LaFleur and Rodgers are indeed mismatched, it may be considered somewhat of a tragedy that they didn't take advantage of the possibility of parting amicably during this past offseason -- with our quarterback going to a team more suited to him.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:18 pm

I didn’t think Rodgers would come back knowing what this roster portended. I had hope that him doing so signaled a change of approach. That has long evaporated. It made no sense and what little room there was to change that was frittered away with the lack of a plan to approach things differently to make the most of it. I have no doubt Murphy made the offer happen, but I think it also signals the extent to which Rodgers wasn’t seeing things clearly either.

2 points
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Guam's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:41 pm

Not only are MLF and Rodgers mismatched, but Rodgers' preferred offense and the current roster are mismatched. They can't get rid of Rodgers without a crippling financial hit and getting rid of MLF doesn't help much because you are still left with the roster mismatch. And the roster mismatch won't sort itself out before Rodgers likely retires.

I believe Gute was drafting to build a post Rodgers team and Murphy screwed up the plan by signing Rodgers to that extension. I don't see a good way out at this point.

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 20, 2022 at 11:50 pm

Sigh!

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Tundraboy's picture

October 20, 2022 at 11:47 pm

Pure genius NP. Cut right to the core of this debacle. Now will anyone in this organization and staff do what needs to be done? It's football. Soft gets you nowhere.

0 points
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Lphill's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:58 am

Jones cant get the touches if he's not even on the field.

7 points
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stockholder's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:11 am

What's going on out there! The expectations were too high. Plenty of criticism to go around, thats for sure. This team is down.
Emotionally they're cooked. The explanation isn't good enough. Especially along the OL. What a embarrassment! The whole team knows it. And you can't point the finger at the defense, when the offense sucks so bad. The Gloom and Doom will always show up if your Defense is on the field too long. Working hard won't pay dividends unless the message is clear. Know what you're DOING!
The OL has been an experiment since, " Camp day one". And it's Not surprising Rodgers is not happy about anything. It can only rub off and did. Being positive won't work in the NFL. And while change is on the way. The chemistry of this club has changed.
Example: Rodgers telling everybody to remain Quiet. Shows Nobody is working together. Talk is cheap. And it hurts.
So what Looms for the packers? Bitch more? Blow it up? Or Fix the OL? My preference is to fix the OL the way it was.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:21 pm

Execution is the new “pad level”. Vague and ultimately meaningless. If a team with this many veterans that allegedly can’t execute as they did previously, I just ask why? Either the Packers handed out chemical lobotomies or the coaches achieved that by other means.

0 points
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croatpackfan's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:12 am

Again on spot Al. This Packers team is nnot playing for each other. They are just doing the work and not on very high level. Nobody covers anybody's mistakes and it clearly looks like that they do not want to do anything else than work asked from them.

We expected terrifying D based on reports coming out from TC. Also we found excuse for not so good D through preseason games claiming that was bad because Packers using players expected to be cut, on the PS or deep in the depth chart. From closed practices we were informed that D dominate O. Even ACR was talking how Packers D will intimidate opponents. Now, we knows why Packers D looks like that. They were playing vs Packers OL.

I would also question the decision to play OL with constant changes of personnel, so you did not get the unit that gels, but 5 guys who are playing as isolated islands.

As far as I understand TC should be used to gel your O, D and ST. Not exclusively for evaluating players who will play at what position. That part of TC belongs to individual trainings, where you can teach technique each player.

Today it looks like they failed to made right evaluation, and lost the chance to gel the units.

I prey to God that I'm wrong and that all of those low quality games are due to lack of talent and capabilities of certain number of players. If I'm wrong it can be relatively easy to solve. Change the worst players and rise the level of talent as much as you can.

If I'm right, that means, and many of us suspect that, the problem is complete coaching staff backed by Mark Murphy. In that case I can say only this - God help us, please...

7 points
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jlc1's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:17 am

Yeah we heard that the D was stoning the O in training camp. Turns out anybody can do that.

3 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:31 am

We heard a lot from training camp, and many believed what was coming from an obvious biased Packer media.

The only place I saw the word 'WOW' used more was on the 60s TV Batman Show.

5 points
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PeteK's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:05 am

" The night is darkest just before the dawn, and I promise you the dawn is coming." Harvey Dent

2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:01 pm

If you are talking that Mark Murphy will leave one way or another ASAP, I agree with you. But I think night just started this season and is so dark because the sky is full of black stormy clouds.

I hope you are right and I'm wrong...

-1 points
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dgtalmn's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:15 am

Well I am keeping hope we will right the ship. Really need to "run the table" in order to be in the playoffs. Right now with the Vikqueens looking good, might at least get a wild card.

If I remember correctly we won the Super Bowl last time being the wild card!

1 points
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PeteK's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:37 am

The team read its press clippings and was not ready to play against improved and hungry teams. However, I agree there is still enough time and talent to right the ship. Coaching and especially pro player pride will be tested.

3 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:04 pm

They definitely don't need to run the table. Have you looked at the NFC standings? 10 wins gets you in the playoffs, this year 9 probably does.

0 points
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Handsback's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:20 am

For the Jets coach to say that about a football team is just about the greatest insult I can imagine. Pretty much questions the Packer's manhood.
We have been much more polite about the team's softness, but it's out there now. I guess the next game will tell us if they can or will change their mental approach to playing football.
This might be the saddest thing I have ever read against the Packers.

15 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:41 am

Maybe the guys missed MLF's arm flap signals. That's how to be tough!

3 points
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Rebecca's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:17 am

In this case the TRUTH should be insulting if you’re not playing to your potential. Did Chandick report that snowflakes were seen in Green Bay?

2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:09 pm

"This might be the saddest thing I have ever read against the Packers."

Lot of sad statements was said in the past. But trutful ones are the sadiest.

1 points
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packerbackerjim's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:26 am

Opposing defenses can play man because the OL is a sieve. Get a RT, Jenkins back to LG, and develop cohesion.

7 points
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stockholder's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:33 am

Thats my fix. They had Rick Wagnor and Turner. Veterans that knew what they were doing. Jenkins has to go back to guard.

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 20, 2022 at 11:56 pm

Now.

0 points
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PeteK's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:08 am

Especially since they can defeat us with only 4 lineman rushing.

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:36 am

Saying Walker is now confused, and lacking confidence is saying he isn't being taught, mentored and coached. He's not being put in a position to win.

All the starting rookies we've been playing are up to speed. It's been SIX WEEKS of regular season play for goodness sakes. A-Rod couldn't even pick on the Jet's rookie corner because he was balling out on the other side.

Jersy, when you say, "AJ Dillon has shown no explosiveness. Wrote about this a few weeks ago, he's being tentative, which slows him down, and without that momentum, he's much easier to bring down." That's a result of the stupid zone runs with a bad O-line. I'd be tentative too. No set plays for them to execute just try to run where there's no D instead of running something called like a cross block between the guard and tackle on the left and blasting through. Just bounce around till you find a spot....

1 points
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PeteK's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:20 am

An undrafted Krys Barnes sure never had this much trouble.

3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:43 pm

Walker was over-drafted. A two pick. Barnes would have rotated into the run sets. He should be back in a couple weeks.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:11 pm

Name a 1st round rookie ILB that has come in and played well the last few years. Packer fans cried about Patrick Queen for a couple years and he was terrible as a rookie. Still is. Walker has actually been pretty good in coverage but has been terrible in his run fits. He's trying to play fast and it's just not working for him right now.

They should think about sitting him on early down for McDuffie.

0 points
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PeteK's picture

October 19, 2022 at 05:47 pm

Devin Lloyd-Jags this year and Devin White-Bucs. I would be happy if Walker matched Queens 9 TFL. It's still early and he will probably get better , but right now I don't see the sideline to sideline tackler I expected.

1 points
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SinceLombardi's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:46 am

Let’s face it.. it’s not like benching Newman, or moving Jenkins inside is going to turn this around.
There are too many problems, too many dollars going to 12, and a very tense atmosphere. It almost seems as if almost overnight that ML lost the team. It’s obvious the defense has no confidence in Barry( who does?)
ML’s lofty win-loss record shouldn’t be a deciding factor in his continued employment. His terrible playoff record, and the lack of toughness ( mental and physical) his teams show are bottom line issues.
Brian Daboll has shown you can win some games with a very average roster.. even below average. Compare salaries NYG-GBP.. I think the Giants and Jets games were not flukes either. Once that bully smacks you , then you either punch right back or shrink , cower and make excuses. Even the tv cameras show a totally lost looking ML on the sidelines. It’s obvious once they’re at a crossroads in a game … they’re done.
We will have to eat it this year. Murphy on down need to go. The executive board HAS to get it right. Requirement #1 : field a physical aggressive hungry team.

4 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:54 am

"field a physical aggressive hungry team."

Just like the Bears and Lions have been doing.

-2 points
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Fubared's picture

October 19, 2022 at 07:56 am

I'm shocked Al that teams havent figured, Rodgers doesnt like man at all its screws with his mind. A few years ago we went into KC with a 5 0 record and looked unbeatable.
Andy changed it up and played man against us and Rodgers had like two interceptions in the first quarter and his game when in the toilet from there.
Man is the reason Rodgers waist time outs trying to figure out just who he is going to throw or or if he wants to run it instead. It slows him and the team down to including the backs who are unsure of the play.

1 points
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Razer's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:00 am

The disorganized play and poor utilization of personnel goes directly to the coaching staff and front- office. We knew going in that our O-line needed resources and other than a couple of lower round draft picks we didn't do anything. Standing pat with Royce Newman tells you the story. Poor drafting on the D-line has plagued us for over a decade and it is still a problem. Rodgers has B-grade receivers and C-grade TEs.

Hard to be positive about this team at this point but you got to remember that this is the same team with some additions that played well the last couple of years. STILL, this team could be cohesive and playing like a team if the coaching staff worked at a higher level. Watching Joe Barry play his passive zones is reminiscent of 4th and 26. Matt LaFleur needs to take the reins and drive the players and coaches in the right direction. That may mean the reassignment of some duties to get better results.

4 points
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jurp's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:31 am

I highly doubt that MLF has the hard-nosed personality needed to "take the reins" because he has never done that. If any of you follow UK politics, MLF = Liz Truss and AR = Jeremy Hunt.

0 points
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Texastoast's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:01 am

A few questions and observations:
I believe we can pull out of this "funk". How? Maybe not as hard as we think.
For example, Is it against some rule that if we run a play that works we can not run it again in that game ? I've seen us run the " pony" formation, fake to Dillon pitch opposite to Jones and get good yardage. Once a game. The Jets were selling out on our first action. Use that against them.
Could we shelve the RPO'S for a bit? Seems we are confused at the line . Sometimes the "him rule" is effective ( I got him, you got him) it still is football after all.
We seem to have a lot of walk-throughs for practices- working on the mental aspects. CAN that shiite! Learn to do by doing- get your butt up and move around!
I really see some positive things on the field. Unfortunately it may be 9 or 10 guys on any given play. We need all 11 on every play.
I feel the Coaches need to be a little more pragmatic - if that's the right word... If you aren't getting the job done, find someone who will.
I could go on, but my main thought- if it were me in the locker room before Sunday's game; Both lines- move the line of scrimmage , take their territory yard by yard. Don't wait for them to dictate what you think you should do, make them have to worry about what you're doing to them.

5 points
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Razer's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:09 am

...Both lines- move the line of scrimmage , take their territory yard by yard...

As fancy as game planning gets, the game ultimately goes back to controlling the trenches. The Packers have been weak in this department for too long. Challenge these guys to win the LOS or start replacing them with some grit.

I like your comments.

4 points
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PatrickGB's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:08 am

Texas, “ We seem to have a lot of walk-throughs for practices- working on the mental aspects. CAN that shiite! Learn to do by doing- get your butt up and move around!”
I agree!
YES, I have thought that dialing down practice was a mistake. It’s done week after week. And then they act surprised when the game does not go well.

1 points
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Razer's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:04 am

BTW - Robert Saleh may have made his comments public as a friendly gesture to Matt LaFleur. Giving Matt some fuel is akind to a sincere post game handshake. Saleh is a good coach - good enough to coach two teams.

5 points
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Rebecca's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:10 am

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” -Sun Tzu

8 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:16 am

Quay Walker looks lost out there.
To be fair the entire defense looks lost most of the time. Quay started out on fire. But recently he has definitely hit a rut. So what can Barry do to get him out of the rut? They need to find a way so he can simply read and react. Perhaps using him a little less on the field will allow him to focus more when he is on the field.

AJ Dillon has shown no explosiveness.
Dillon has been struggling. What are the reasons and what can be the fixes? I wish I had the answer. But the OL has to start doing a better job of blocking. Dillon has to have better vision. He has been going down on first contact way to much. I thought Dillon finally looked good towards the end of the game.

Is it more likely that all these players together are suddenly declining at the same time or that the schemes they're being put in are flawed?
Mostly scheme. Watch the difference it made when they started playing the CB's more aggressively. When the CB's were up on the WR's they allowed next to nothing. There was one particular play in the 2nd half. The CB went back to being off 10 yards and allowed a simple slant that gained 12 yards. They have to do a better job schematically.
That being said, individuals have to start playing better.

Intensity and speed.
The Packers defense was flying around this summer. Absolutely flying around. Since then they have been playing soft coverages and almost no blitzing. The Jets game has given me hope. The defense was playing really well. It took a few whacky plays and blocked punt returned to change it. They were playing more aggressively. CB's were up in WR's faces. They were flying around.

Why are teams playing man coverage against the Packers so much?
Who would you fear as an opposing defense? This is where I think the offense needs to change its approach. They need to start using the personnel they have more. Look their WR's have been hurt. Watson has missed a few games now. Watkins has been on IR. Cobb is now hurt. They don't have the WR's right now to run what they want to. So start using more TE's. More 2 TE sets I think is something that could improve this offense. Tonyan has proved to be their most reliable pass catcher. Deguara has really looked good these last 2 games in my eyes. Start getting those guys the ball a little bit more. I really think this lineup could be very good. Jones, Lazard, Doubs, Tonyan and Deguara. I think they could do a lot of things with this set up. With most teams playing a lot of nickel, this lineup could either take advantage of that with running it, or if they go to this look more, teams may start playing more base against them. Which means they have more opportunities in the passing game.

1 points
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stockholder's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:44 am

Walker is learning. But he may have been in there too long. Trying to make up for being tired.

1 points
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Packers1985's picture

October 19, 2022 at 12:15 pm

"Is it more likely that all these players together are suddenly declining at the same time or that the schemes they're being put in are flawed?
Mostly scheme."

100% right on this i dont think that many players regress at once. It has to do with the scheme they are put in which isn't working right now.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:15 pm

I guess you missed the 1st half against the Jets hunh?

0 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:17 am

That clip demonstrates HC Saleh s a leader and motivator. At his pressers, I see no such trait from our Head Cheerleader. I'm not sure if we ever will. If you were a professional football player, who would you want to be led by?

8 points
8
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Razer's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:31 am

...I see no such trait from our Head Cheerleader...

Too funny and sadly too true.

2 points
2
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Cubbygold's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:03 am

Yup, it seems MLF might be suited for sitting in a box devising schemes and play calls, but isn't well suited for being on the field and in the locker room. Just lacking the leadership skills needed to influence and motivate a team.

4 points
4
0
Dragon5's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:48 am

There's a quote out there that goes like..."when the pain exceeds the desire to change, you will change." Hopefully we're close.

Personally I think we should hold LaFlake accountable--forbidding him to trim his goatee untill we win a game.

2 points
4
2
Gravedigger93's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:02 am

Great summary as usual Al.
With one third of the season done here are my takeaways/questions.

Before the season I was most looking forward to seeing a great defense. Boy was I wrong. When is Barry really on the hot seat? If they lose to the Commanders?

The offense goes as the offensive line goes...and boy are they offensive. Everyone has covered what should be changed. Newman gets run over like a cardboard cut out. Was moving Stenavich to OC a mistake? Maybe he's no good as OC and his O-line replacement isn't either. Double whammy?

Rodgers is not earining his 50 million. His throws have not been as accurate as in the past and his leadership/body language is really lacking, at least what you can see on TV and in interviews. Maybe he should have shown up the voluntary preseason. For 50 mil, ah, yeah. But as everyone has covered, what do the Packers do now? I don't think he's the biggest problem, but for 50 mil you need to compensate for other problems on the team.

MLF. When does he shake things up? If they lose to the Commanders I think needs to do something substantial. And yeah, that "soft" comment from the other team. If they don't come out pissed off with their hair on fire next game I think we got our answer for the rest of the season...

7 points
7
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jlc1's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:25 am

Expecting ARod to play at a 50 million level is not the way the world works. He, like all of us, is paid for what he's done. He's arrived at the point, a point many, many people get to, when the performance no longer matches the pay. Happens all the time. Citing 50 million or 60 or 20 or whatever is beside the point.

2 points
5
3
Coldworld's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:28 pm

If he’s paid for what he’s done in the past in football then we have made the cardinal error. You pay for play in the upcoming contract because prior players leads you to believe that is realistic. If you don’t think you can get that level sustained, then you are paying based on hope not good judgement out of either desperation or foolishness, likely both.

0 points
0
0
Cubbygold's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:01 am

Unfortunately, given the fiasco at special teams last year and the difficulty they had firing their ST Coordinator, I don't think we're anywhere close to a Barry hot seat.

6 points
6
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:11 am

Those pesky timeouts! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. The Packers got the ball back with 31 seconds remaining in the first half; great field position and three time outs. THREE! Go back and watch those 31 seconds and see how much time Tonyon wasted lumbering to get out of bounds. We should have had at least one, maybe two additional plays and a shot at a touchdown. Malaise. Lack of situational awareness. General dumbfuckery abounds.

7 points
8
1
jlc1's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:26 am

Dumbfuckery it is!

4 points
4
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Leatherhead's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:14 am

Leotis, the answers are that we need a superduper WR and a better special teams coach who is fiery. That fixes everything.

-2 points
2
4
LeotisHarris's picture

October 19, 2022 at 05:28 pm

Now, now, LH. Easy. I know how you get when you're agitated, but you've forgotten some key pieces to the Packers' salvation; like the mass firing at 1265 (could coincide with a new line of merch rollout at the Packer Pro Shop!), the seamless installation of MIKE ZIMMER or VIC FANGIO as DC, and/or the publicly televised confession of Mark Murphy. Oh, and a speedy return man wouldn't hurt.

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:54 pm

Yep—situational awareness is a mess.

1 points
1
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nygary's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:14 am

I have been a fan since the 1960's . Never thought I would ever give up on this team. Maybe because I got old , but between rodgers and MLF I have had enough. Its not just Rodgers play, I am sure he's trying. In my opinion, he always acts like he's the smartest guy in the room. If he played in New York the media would destroy him for half the things he says. Until they realize major changes are needed at every level i refuse to get aggravated every Sunday.

5 points
6
1
wildbill's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:26 am

Just another NY crybaby. Just leave as nobody gives a crap about your not getting you butt powdered each week.

-8 points
0
8
nygary's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:37 pm

The only one that would care bill is your fat ass mother.

2 points
3
1
jurp's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:41 am

Nagler's tweet "So many guys playing below expectation, from Rodgers to Jenkins to Campbell to Douglas and more. Coaches can only do so much. The Packers, nearly to a man, need to play better." is partial BS and an analytical and logical failure A teamful of players do not ALL suck at the same time unless coaching is the issue.

Sure the players need to play better, but the players play within a scheme and game plan set by the coaches.

- If one or both of those do not fit the players' skillsets/talent, then the coaches have failed the players.
- If one or both of those fails to counter the opposing team's scheme/gameplan and the coaches fail to make adjustments, then the coaches have failed the players.
- If practice and preparation fail to adequately prepare the players for the opposing team's scheme/game plan, then the coaches have failed the players.
- If the players feel that the coaches have failed them over and over again, then morale and desire are lost.

7 points
7
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:23 am

I do feel like the players need to play better, and the coaches need to be doing a better job at putting the players in the best position to succeed. Also I think they need to do a better job of maximizing each individuals talents.

On Offense, the whole thing starts with the OL. They can't trot Newman out there again. He just has blown up to many plays and drives. The more that I have thought about it the more I think Jenkins needs to go back to LG. Putting him and Bakhtiari back together again would solidify the left side. Now they can slide protections more to the right side. Getting the OL figured out is the biggest thing they need to resolve. The rest will settle itself.

2 points
2
0
Cubbygold's picture

October 19, 2022 at 09:59 am

On a positive note... that Jenkins contract extension is getting cheaper by the day

7 points
7
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Swisch's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:38 am

I'm not for replicating history exactly, but adapting it to help us in the present. Why make the mistakes of the past all over again, instead of emulating the best of the past for success in the present?
In 1958, the year before Lombardi, the Packers were 1-10-1, with a string of lousy, losing seasons going back to the 1940s -- a situation so mired in misery that it seemed the team might be forced to leave Green Bay.
Paul Hornung and Ray Nitschke were seemingly busts. Bart Starr would have been considered a bust if he had ever been highly thought of; instead, he was a 17th-round draft pick who during his first years with the team had remained all but invisible.
In Lombardi's first season, the Packers went 7-5; in his second season, the team made it all the way to the championship game but lost to the Eagles; from then on it was five championships in seven years, ending with three in a row, a team accomplishment unmatched in the NFL before or since.
In other words, coaching does make more than a little difference -- and so does leadership at quarterback . . .
***
. . . which brings us back to Bart Starr (without the slightest apology).
If the Packers were like most top teams, they would have regressed after their first championship or two.
That's what happened after Johnnie Unitas and the Colts wowed the sports world with back-to-back triumphs in 1958 and 1959. Although they had tons of talent throughout the 1960s, the Colts were shut out of championships for the entire decade -- perhaps in large part because of a clash between Unitas and his head coach, Don Shula.
Also lots of great players in those days on the New York Giants, including Gifford, Huff, and Robustelli, but the Packers beat them in the big game for titles in 1961 and 1962.
The Bears won the 1963 championship in the twilight years of George Halas with a ferocious defense, and the Browns won one in 1964 (over the Colts) with the mighty Jim Brown at running back.
Yet the only team to sustain excellence in this era was the Packers . . . and here's where Starr comes in shining bright.
It's eminently true to say that Lombardi made Starr; but it's also fair to say that Starr helped make Lombardi.
The genius of Lombardi in motivating players was at risk of deteriorating due to his mercurial moods, including a temper that could be almost intolerable.
Starr was the steady hand and steely leader that kept the genius of Lombardi going and going. He was strong even while unassuming, allowing his head coach and teammates to get most of the credit, even as he was an essential force in bringing out the best in them.
Starr has unsuspected talent, winning the MVP for the NFL regular season of 1966. In the championship game against the Cowboys, he threw for four touchdowns and more than 300 yards; the next year, in a rematch, was the Ice Bowl, and the glorious final drive, led masterfully by Starr, that was the climax of the Packers dynasty.
Starr found ways to win again and again in the most momentous of games, not excuses to lose, with the result of the most legendary team in the history of the NFL.
It's a true story, though, and if we don't revel in this heritage, while learning from it, we miss out on a great opportunity for the Packers to be winners today and always.
The basics of character and excellence in football, and in all of life, never lose their relevance, never go out of style.

1 points
5
4
LLCHESTY's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:21 pm

One of these days can you tell us a magical story about Starr in the 70's or 80's and what an awesome leader he was then?

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

October 19, 2022 at 06:34 pm

Coaching and being a QB are very different. That’s a good example of why it’s usually a bad idea to confuse the two.

3 points
3
0
Since'61's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:17 pm

Not to mention a story about the magical seasons of '68, '69' and '70 when the Packers with Starr as their starting QB went 20-21-1 as the other 11 HOFers who surrounded Starr either retired or were traded, year by year. Only Nitschke and Starr remained from the Packers halcyon championship seasons. Oh yes and Coach Lombardi left for Washington. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
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Swisch's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:40 pm

What happened to Starr in the late 1960s may have been what happened to Unitas: They were old and beaten up and hindered.
Unitas was actually injured for most of 1968, but the Colts flourished with a record of 13-1 under backup Earl Morrall, then won the NFC Championship. It may have been Unitas coming back for the Super Bowl that confused things and more or less caused the infamous loss to the Jets.
***
In any case, as you know Since'61, quarterbacks weren't nearly as well protected during the days of Starr and Unitas as they are today.
Rather, they were mauled mercilessly by the likes of Sam Huff, Alex Karras, and Deacon Jones until they were practically crippled.
It may be wondered by some if the quarterbacks of the past could compete with the ones of today; I wonder if the quarterbacks of today would have survived the relentless punishment of the past, and been able to function nearly as well.
***
It's good sparring with you, Since'61, as someone I respect and like.
Your thoughtful comments help me to further think upon things in a way that I consider fruitful.
Agree or disagree, I'm glad to have you as a companion here at CHTV.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:48 am

As I've posted for years the preseason is nothing but hype and the preseason game performances are meaningless.

As for now this entire team from the HC down to the PS completely lacks confidence. It's obvious in how they play especially when things go bad.
As Coach Lombardi said, “The spirit, the will to win and the will to excel – these are the things that endure and these are the qualities that are so much more important than any of the events that occasion them.” Where is the spirit, the will to win and the will to excel on this team?? Nonexistent at least since the Giants 2nd quarter TD drive.

Murphy has made some strategic mistakes like hiring MLF without thoroughly vetting him and he resigned Rodgers when he should have traded him for picks. That is assuming there was actual interest from other teams rather rumors and speculation. But none of that should translate down to what we are seeing on the field. That is where coaching takes over and it looks like our coaches are doing a miserable job in preparing this team to play or teaching our younger players how to play. Al brought up Quay Walker and he is a perfect example of bad coaching. He has great sideline to sideline speed and he can take the ball carrier down but apparently no one is teaching how to get off a block or how not to over run the play. I questioned a few games back why aren't they using Walker to blitz up the middle to put interior pressure on the QB?? He's the perfect player for a delayed blitz to get the QB off his spot and maybe force a bad throw even if he doesn't get the sack. It still hasn't happened, why? The offense should be made to account for Walker which should open a chance for Clark or Gary. C'mon Barry this is basic stuff.

The offense goes as far as the OL takes them and this OL isn't taking our offense anywhere, except maybe to the hospital because they are going to get our QB and/or RBs injured. They were pitiful against the Jets. They played like they were totally unprepared for the Jet stunts and they just weren't hitting anyone. I don't think that I have ever seen an entire OL just standing around throughout a game. No confidence, no effort, no will to play never mind to win.

Our WRs are all over the place with no idea of how to run their routes or get any separation. Then they drop perfectly thrown passes and cannot make a contested catch. 25+ coaches and no one knows how to teach our receivers how to catch or run routes. Pathetic.

Get the ball to Jones, Dillion and Tonyan. At least they can catch and maybe make some plays on the offense. As for Dillon, he is another player who plays like he has lost his confidence. He has become very tentative and looks slower than he played last season. He did make some solid blocks on a few blitz pickups during the game. But he has not been the same player as last season.

As for Rodgers, he's playing hurt (thumb) and his footwork has been inconsistent. He is playing like he doesn't know where anyone is on the field or that none of his receivers are open except for Tonyan and Jones on check downs or in the flat. It doesn't help that he is clobbered on nearly every pass play even when he is not sacked. I know many complain that he holds the ball too long but a lesser player would be throwing the ball all over the place and getting picked on every drive. At least he is willing to take the hit and the sack rather than hurt the team. Having said that even Rodgers who is one of the most confident players that I have ever seen looks tentative these last few games.

The coaches need to get this team fired up and prepared to play. They need to come out, make some plays and get their confidence back. Then they need to fight for 60 minutes of NFL football. Regardless of whatever mistakes management may have made with contracts and draft picks the coaches need to coach and the players need to play and not just go through the motions which is what it looks like the coaches and players are doing. Somebody needs to step up and drag this team through this or we're in for a long, long season. Then a complete house cleaning and starting over. Maybe that's what it will take. We'll see.
Thanks, Since '61

10 points
10
0
HawkPacker's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:22 am

Good commentary Since'61. I especially like your comments about Rodgers and I fully agree. He does look tentative and confused as well.

To me the overall problem is the lack of coaching. They have to coach up the players, properly game plan and challenge the players. Get in their faces if need be.

We need to hear that popping noise......when they pull their heads out of their arses!

6 points
6
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Since'61's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:27 am

Hawkpacker - I agree and love your last sentence. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
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T7Steve's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:32 am

Check this one out that I just read Since 61. Or did you write it? HA! You've been talking about this allot.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/10/19/23411783/opposing-defenses...

0 points
0
0
Since'61's picture

October 19, 2022 at 03:12 pm

T7Steve - thanks for sharing this article. I didn't write it but maybe the author is reading my posts and applying better resources to make the point. Run the ball, until they stop it especially 2 downs to make 2 yards and 2 excellent RBs in the backfield. MLF should have figured out about the opponents defense dictating what we do and adjusted to it going back to last season. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
fthisJack's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:29 pm

most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win! Bobby Knight.

2 points
2
0
jlc1's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:36 am

If Robert Saleh didn't fire them up then nobody can.

4 points
4
0
LLCHESTY's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:24 pm

Walker has blitzed 17 times and has no sacks, hits or pressures. Campbell has blitzed 5 times and has one pressures.

1 points
1
0
PeteK's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:14 am

I like and respect Lafleur and am cheering with all my heart for him to beat the malaise that this team is in. Saleh is class less, LF has never nor would ever disrespect a team he just beat, especially a friend. You can have your chest pounding supposedly tough coaches; they historically don't win. It is the under control, cerebral coaches that win big. Sure Paul Brown and Bill Walsh yelled and screamed some in practice, but that was not their main motto. The coaches put players in position to win, however they have dropped passes, missed tackles ,and blocks.

-4 points
2
6
Cubbygold's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:30 am

I only watched two episodes of Hard Knocks this year, but what stood out was the OC/DC in Detroit being hilariously animated during practices. I think it was the OC in particular. Just constant cursing and trash talking in an effort to hype up the team to play at full effort.

My thought was - man that must get old fast, and the players probably tune these guys out.

Still, the great coaches do seem to have an edge to them that MLF seems to lack in order to enforce the culture they need.

1 points
1
0
Roadrunner23's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:43 am

I was at the game Sunday and the lack of urgency, intensity and heart was astounding to me!

On offense Rodgers and crew looked lost, discombobulated and SLOW. On one particular play Rodgers ran to the outside, had an easy first down but instead threw across his body back over the middle and almost had it picked. It looked exactly like the plate Brett Favre threw the interception on when he was with the Vikings in the championship game. Rodgers looks like a guy who is milking his last paycheck and playing not to get injured and knows that this team is not a playoff team. The defense looks like they came to play in the first half but they were on the field so much that they were bound to get gas at some point and they did in the third quarter and beyond.
And the special teams of course have not been fixed and why you go out and spend that kind of money on a special teams coach and bring in special teams players, but don’t pick up a legitimate return man is maddening !
Unfortunately, this looks like a below average team At least we’ll have a hair draft choice this year. 

1 points
2
1
fthisJack's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:33 pm

You mean like Clay Mathews?

0 points
0
0
Roadrunner23's picture

October 19, 2022 at 11:45 am

Apologies on the spellcheck

0 points
0
0
fthisJack's picture

October 19, 2022 at 01:35 pm

Slide Jenkins to RG and Nijman to RT.

3 points
3
0
CheesyTex's picture

October 19, 2022 at 08:04 pm

Wonder if there was an Ayahouasca party Saturday night.

After reading these comments, maybe we could all use one...

0 points
0
0
Starrbrite's picture

October 19, 2022 at 10:04 pm

I like what NickPerry and Bamabadger stated about Saleh—He can motivate and rallies around his players.
And Saleh essentially called the Packers soft, which should be a huge punch in the groin to his good friend LeFluke.
As NickPerry said, repeat that tape over and over.
Go Packers—-and for once, Get Tough!!

0 points
0
0