I’ve come to the conclusion that MLF needs to cut players and coaches to right this ship. The unemotional optimistic facade only works if there is still a hard, bottom line; otherwise it is read as “flexibly weak.” You can’t keep drawing lines in the sand if they don’t have REAL consequences.
Maybe benching would be enough, but I think that ship may have sailed with Amari and Newman getting so much slack, all along.

What Robert Saleh said after the game SHOULD be taped and put on a loop then played throughout the Packer's PA System for the REST of the season. If THAT doesn't motivate this coaching staff, players, hell and secretaries, and water boys NOTHING will. I had heard about it and now just listened to it. Damn, get it together!

I honestly believe MLF has zero answers for what is going on. He says the same damn thing after every game and looks like he's aged 10 years in the last 6 weeks. If things don't change DRAMATICALLY after that Jets game he's cooked as a HC for a while. No one will touch him until he grows some balls.

If Rodgers dislikes motion so much then BENCH HIS ASS. Opposing defenses aren't scared of ANY Packer's WR and it shows. Unless MLF takes a hold of this offense he'll be unemployed very soon. Rodgers doesn't give a damn, he holds ALL the cards with that RIDICULOUS contract he signed. Hey, do you think Denver would want to swap Rodgers for Wilson?

Jones cant get the touches if he's not even on the field.

What's going on out there! The expectations were too high. Plenty of criticism to go around, thats for sure. This team is down.
Emotionally they're cooked. The explanation isn't good enough. Especially along the OL. What a embarrassment! The whole team knows it. And you can't point the finger at the defense, when the offense sucks so bad. The Gloom and Doom will always show up if your Defense is on the field too long. Working hard won't pay dividends unless the message is clear. Know what you're DOING!
The OL has been an experiment since, " Camp day one". And it's Not surprising Rodgers is not happy about anything. It can only rub off and did. Being positive won't work in the NFL. And while change is on the way. The chemistry of this club has changed.
Example: Rodgers telling everybody to remain Quiet. Shows Nobody is working together. Talk is cheap. And it hurts.
So what Looms for the packers? Bitch more? Blow it up? Or Fix the OL? My preference is to fix the OL the way it was.

Again on spot Al. This Packers team is nnot playing for each other. They are just doing the work and not on very high level. Nobody covers anybody's mistakes and it clearly looks like that they do not want to do anything else than work asked from them.

We expected terrifying D based on reports coming out from TC. Also we found excuse for not so good D through preseason games claiming that was bad because Packers using players expected to be cut, on the PS or deep in the depth chart. From closed practices we were informed that D dominate O. Even ACR was talking how Packers D will intimidate opponents. Now, we knows why Packers D looks like that. They were playing vs Packers OL.

I would also question the decision to play OL with constant changes of personnel, so you did not get the unit that gels, but 5 guys who are playing as isolated islands.

As far as I understand TC should be used to gel your O, D and ST. Not exclusively for evaluating players who will play at what position. That part of TC belongs to individual trainings, where you can teach technique each player.

Today it looks like they failed to made right evaluation, and lost the chance to gel the units.

I prey to God that I'm wrong and that all of those low quality games are due to lack of talent and capabilities of certain number of players. If I'm wrong it can be relatively easy to solve. Change the worst players and rise the level of talent as much as you can.

If I'm right, that means, and many of us suspect that, the problem is complete coaching staff backed by Mark Murphy. In that case I can say only this - God help us, please...

Well I am keeping hope we will right the ship. Really need to "run the table" in order to be in the playoffs. Right now with the Vikqueens looking good, might at least get a wild card.

If I remember correctly we won the Super Bowl last time being the wild card!

For the Jets coach to say that about a football team is just about the greatest insult I can imagine. Pretty much questions the Packer's manhood.
We have been much more polite about the team's softness, but it's out there now. I guess the next game will tell us if they can or will change their mental approach to playing football.
This might be the saddest thing I have ever read against the Packers.

Opposing defenses can play man because the OL is a sieve. Get a RT, Jenkins back to LG, and develop cohesion.

Saying Walker is now confused, and lacking confidence is saying he isn't being taught, mentored and coached. He's not being put in a position to win.

All the starting rookies we've been playing are up to speed. It's been SIX WEEKS of regular season play for goodness sakes. A-Rod couldn't even pick on the Jet's rookie corner because he was balling out on the other side.

Jersy, when you say, "AJ Dillon has shown no explosiveness. Wrote about this a few weeks ago, he's being tentative, which slows him down, and without that momentum, he's much easier to bring down." That's a result of the stupid zone runs with a bad O-line. I'd be tentative too. No set plays for them to execute just try to run where there's no D instead of running something called like a cross block between the guard and tackle on the left and blasting through. Just bounce around till you find a spot....

Let’s face it.. it’s not like benching Newman, or moving Jenkins inside is going to turn this around.
There are too many problems, too many dollars going to 12, and a very tense atmosphere. It almost seems as if almost overnight that ML lost the team. It’s obvious the defense has no confidence in Barry( who does?)
ML’s lofty win-loss record shouldn’t be a deciding factor in his continued employment. His terrible playoff record, and the lack of toughness ( mental and physical) his teams show are bottom line issues.
Brian Daboll has shown you can win some games with a very average roster.. even below average. Compare salaries NYG-GBP.. I think the Giants and Jets games were not flukes either. Once that bully smacks you , then you either punch right back or shrink , cower and make excuses. Even the tv cameras show a totally lost looking ML on the sidelines. It’s obvious once they’re at a crossroads in a game … they’re done.
We will have to eat it this year. Murphy on down need to go. The executive board HAS to get it right. Requirement #1 : field a physical aggressive hungry team.

I'm shocked Al that teams havent figured, Rodgers doesnt like man at all its screws with his mind. A few years ago we went into KC with a 5 0 record and looked unbeatable.
Andy changed it up and played man against us and Rodgers had like two interceptions in the first quarter and his game when in the toilet from there.
Man is the reason Rodgers waist time outs trying to figure out just who he is going to throw or or if he wants to run it instead. It slows him and the team down to including the backs who are unsure of the play.

The disorganized play and poor utilization of personnel goes directly to the coaching staff and front- office. We knew going in that our O-line needed resources and other than a couple of lower round draft picks we didn't do anything. Standing pat with Royce Newman tells you the story. Poor drafting on the D-line has plagued us for over a decade and it is still a problem. Rodgers has B-grade receivers and C-grade TEs.

Hard to be positive about this team at this point but you got to remember that this is the same team with some additions that played well the last couple of years. STILL, this team could be cohesive and playing like a team if the coaching staff worked at a higher level. Watching Joe Barry play his passive zones is reminiscent of 4th and 26. Matt LaFleur needs to take the reins and drive the players and coaches in the right direction. That may mean the reassignment of some duties to get better results.

A few questions and observations:
I believe we can pull out of this "funk". How? Maybe not as hard as we think.
For example, Is it against some rule that if we run a play that works we can not run it again in that game ? I've seen us run the " pony" formation, fake to Dillon pitch opposite to Jones and get good yardage. Once a game. The Jets were selling out on our first action. Use that against them.
Could we shelve the RPO'S for a bit? Seems we are confused at the line . Sometimes the "him rule" is effective ( I got him, you got him) it still is football after all.
We seem to have a lot of walk-throughs for practices- working on the mental aspects. CAN that shiite! Learn to do by doing- get your butt up and move around!
I really see some positive things on the field. Unfortunately it may be 9 or 10 guys on any given play. We need all 11 on every play.
I feel the Coaches need to be a little more pragmatic - if that's the right word... If you aren't getting the job done, find someone who will.
I could go on, but my main thought- if it were me in the locker room before Sunday's game; Both lines- move the line of scrimmage , take their territory yard by yard. Don't wait for them to dictate what you think you should do, make them have to worry about what you're doing to them.

BTW - Robert Saleh may have made his comments public as a friendly gesture to Matt LaFleur. Giving Matt some fuel is akind to a sincere post game handshake. Saleh is a good coach - good enough to coach two teams.

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” -Sun Tzu

Quay Walker looks lost out there.
To be fair the entire defense looks lost most of the time. Quay started out on fire. But recently he has definitely hit a rut. So what can Barry do to get him out of the rut? They need to find a way so he can simply read and react. Perhaps using him a little less on the field will allow him to focus more when he is on the field.

AJ Dillon has shown no explosiveness.
Dillon has been struggling. What are the reasons and what can be the fixes? I wish I had the answer. But the OL has to start doing a better job of blocking. Dillon has to have better vision. He has been going down on first contact way to much. I thought Dillon finally looked good towards the end of the game.

Is it more likely that all these players together are suddenly declining at the same time or that the schemes they're being put in are flawed?
Mostly scheme. Watch the difference it made when they started playing the CB's more aggressively. When the CB's were up on the WR's they allowed next to nothing. There was one particular play in the 2nd half. The CB went back to being off 10 yards and allowed a simple slant that gained 12 yards. They have to do a better job schematically.
That being said, individuals have to start playing better.

Intensity and speed.
The Packers defense was flying around this summer. Absolutely flying around. Since then they have been playing soft coverages and almost no blitzing. The Jets game has given me hope. The defense was playing really well. It took a few whacky plays and blocked punt returned to change it. They were playing more aggressively. CB's were up in WR's faces. They were flying around.

Why are teams playing man coverage against the Packers so much?
Who would you fear as an opposing defense? This is where I think the offense needs to change its approach. They need to start using the personnel they have more. Look their WR's have been hurt. Watson has missed a few games now. Watkins has been on IR. Cobb is now hurt. They don't have the WR's right now to run what they want to. So start using more TE's. More 2 TE sets I think is something that could improve this offense. Tonyan has proved to be their most reliable pass catcher. Deguara has really looked good these last 2 games in my eyes. Start getting those guys the ball a little bit more. I really think this lineup could be very good. Jones, Lazard, Doubs, Tonyan and Deguara. I think they could do a lot of things with this set up. With most teams playing a lot of nickel, this lineup could either take advantage of that with running it, or if they go to this look more, teams may start playing more base against them. Which means they have more opportunities in the passing game.

That clip demonstrates HC Saleh s a leader and motivator. At his pressers, I see no such trait from our Head Cheerleader. I'm not sure if we ever will. If you were a professional football player, who would you want to be led by?

There's a quote out there that goes like..."when the pain exceeds the desire to change, you will change." Hopefully we're close.

Personally I think we should hold LaFlake accountable--forbidding him to trim his goatee untill we win a game.

Great summary as usual Al.
With one third of the season done here are my takeaways/questions.

Before the season I was most looking forward to seeing a great defense. Boy was I wrong. When is Barry really on the hot seat? If they lose to the Commanders?

The offense goes as the offensive line goes...and boy are they offensive. Everyone has covered what should be changed. Newman gets run over like a cardboard cut out. Was moving Stenavich to OC a mistake? Maybe he's no good as OC and his O-line replacement isn't either. Double whammy?

Rodgers is not earining his 50 million. His throws have not been as accurate as in the past and his leadership/body language is really lacking, at least what you can see on TV and in interviews. Maybe he should have shown up the voluntary preseason. For 50 mil, ah, yeah. But as everyone has covered, what do the Packers do now? I don't think he's the biggest problem, but for 50 mil you need to compensate for other problems on the team.

MLF. When does he shake things up? If they lose to the Commanders I think needs to do something substantial. And yeah, that "soft" comment from the other team. If they don't come out pissed off with their hair on fire next game I think we got our answer for the rest of the season...

Those pesky timeouts! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. The Packers got the ball back with 31 seconds remaining in the first half; great field position and three time outs. THREE! Go back and watch those 31 seconds and see how much time Tonyon wasted lumbering to get out of bounds. We should have had at least one, maybe two additional plays and a shot at a touchdown. Malaise. Lack of situational awareness. General dumbfuckery abounds.

I have been a fan since the 1960's . Never thought I would ever give up on this team. Maybe because I got old , but between rodgers and MLF I have had enough. Its not just Rodgers play, I am sure he's trying. In my opinion, he always acts like he's the smartest guy in the room. If he played in New York the media would destroy him for half the things he says. Until they realize major changes are needed at every level i refuse to get aggravated every Sunday.

Nagler's tweet "So many guys playing below expectation, from Rodgers to Jenkins to Campbell to Douglas and more. Coaches can only do so much. The Packers, nearly to a man, need to play better." is partial BS and an analytical and logical failure A teamful of players do not ALL suck at the same time unless coaching is the issue.

Sure the players need to play better, but the players play within a scheme and game plan set by the coaches.

- If one or both of those do not fit the players' skillsets/talent, then the coaches have failed the players.
- If one or both of those fails to counter the opposing team's scheme/gameplan and the coaches fail to make adjustments, then the coaches have failed the players.
- If practice and preparation fail to adequately prepare the players for the opposing team's scheme/game plan, then the coaches have failed the players.
- If the players feel that the coaches have failed them over and over again, then morale and desire are lost.

On a positive note... that Jenkins contract extension is getting cheaper by the day

I'm not for replicating history exactly, but adapting it to help us in the present. Why make the mistakes of the past all over again, instead of emulating the best of the past for success in the present?
In 1958, the year before Lombardi, the Packers were 1-10-1, with a string of lousy, losing seasons going back to the 1940s -- a situation so mired in misery that it seemed the team might be forced to leave Green Bay.
Paul Hornung and Ray Nitschke were seemingly busts. Bart Starr would have been considered a bust if he had ever been highly thought of; instead, he was a 17th-round draft pick who during his first years with the team had remained all but invisible.
In Lombardi's first season, the Packers went 7-5; in his second season, the team made it all the way to the championship game but lost to the Eagles; from then on it was five championships in seven years, ending with three in a row, a team accomplishment unmatched in the NFL before or since.
In other words, coaching does make more than a little difference -- and so does leadership at quarterback . . .
***
. . . which brings us back to Bart Starr (without the slightest apology).
If the Packers were like most top teams, they would have regressed after their first championship or two.
That's what happened after Johnnie Unitas and the Colts wowed the sports world with back-to-back triumphs in 1958 and 1959. Although they had tons of talent throughout the 1960s, the Colts were shut out of championships for the entire decade -- perhaps in large part because of a clash between Unitas and his head coach, Don Shula.
Also lots of great players in those days on the New York Giants, including Gifford, Huff, and Robustelli, but the Packers beat them in the big game for titles in 1961 and 1962.
The Bears won the 1963 championship in the twilight years of George Halas with a ferocious defense, and the Browns won one in 1964 (over the Colts) with the mighty Jim Brown at running back.
Yet the only team to sustain excellence in this era was the Packers . . . and here's where Starr comes in shining bright.
It's eminently true to say that Lombardi made Starr; but it's also fair to say that Starr helped make Lombardi.
The genius of Lombardi in motivating players was at risk of deteriorating due to his mercurial moods, including a temper that could be almost intolerable.
Starr was the steady hand and steely leader that kept the genius of Lombardi going and going. He was strong even while unassuming, allowing his head coach and teammates to get most of the credit, even as he was an essential force in bringing out the best in them.
Starr has unsuspected talent, winning the MVP for the NFL regular season of 1966. In the championship game against the Cowboys, he threw for four touchdowns and more than 300 yards; the next year, in a rematch, was the Ice Bowl, and the glorious final drive, led masterfully by Starr, that was the climax of the Packers dynasty.
Starr found ways to win again and again in the most momentous of games, not excuses to lose, with the result of the most legendary team in the history of the NFL.
It's a true story, though, and if we don't revel in this heritage, while learning from it, we miss out on a great opportunity for the Packers to be winners today and always.
The basics of character and excellence in football, and in all of life, never lose their relevance, never go out of style.

As I've posted for years the preseason is nothing but hype and the preseason game performances are meaningless.

As for now this entire team from the HC down to the PS completely lacks confidence. It's obvious in how they play especially when things go bad.
As Coach Lombardi said, “The spirit, the will to win and the will to excel – these are the things that endure and these are the qualities that are so much more important than any of the events that occasion them.” Where is the spirit, the will to win and the will to excel on this team?? Nonexistent at least since the Giants 2nd quarter TD drive.

Murphy has made some strategic mistakes like hiring MLF without thoroughly vetting him and he resigned Rodgers when he should have traded him for picks. That is assuming there was actual interest from other teams rather rumors and speculation. But none of that should translate down to what we are seeing on the field. That is where coaching takes over and it looks like our coaches are doing a miserable job in preparing this team to play or teaching our younger players how to play. Al brought up Quay Walker and he is a perfect example of bad coaching. He has great sideline to sideline speed and he can take the ball carrier down but apparently no one is teaching how to get off a block or how not to over run the play. I questioned a few games back why aren't they using Walker to blitz up the middle to put interior pressure on the QB?? He's the perfect player for a delayed blitz to get the QB off his spot and maybe force a bad throw even if he doesn't get the sack. It still hasn't happened, why? The offense should be made to account for Walker which should open a chance for Clark or Gary. C'mon Barry this is basic stuff.

The offense goes as far as the OL takes them and this OL isn't taking our offense anywhere, except maybe to the hospital because they are going to get our QB and/or RBs injured. They were pitiful against the Jets. They played like they were totally unprepared for the Jet stunts and they just weren't hitting anyone. I don't think that I have ever seen an entire OL just standing around throughout a game. No confidence, no effort, no will to play never mind to win.

Our WRs are all over the place with no idea of how to run their routes or get any separation. Then they drop perfectly thrown passes and cannot make a contested catch. 25+ coaches and no one knows how to teach our receivers how to catch or run routes. Pathetic.

Get the ball to Jones, Dillion and Tonyan. At least they can catch and maybe make some plays on the offense. As for Dillon, he is another player who plays like he has lost his confidence. He has become very tentative and looks slower than he played last season. He did make some solid blocks on a few blitz pickups during the game. But he has not been the same player as last season.

As for Rodgers, he's playing hurt (thumb) and his footwork has been inconsistent. He is playing like he doesn't know where anyone is on the field or that none of his receivers are open except for Tonyan and Jones on check downs or in the flat. It doesn't help that he is clobbered on nearly every pass play even when he is not sacked. I know many complain that he holds the ball too long but a lesser player would be throwing the ball all over the place and getting picked on every drive. At least he is willing to take the hit and the sack rather than hurt the team. Having said that even Rodgers who is one of the most confident players that I have ever seen looks tentative these last few games.

The coaches need to get this team fired up and prepared to play. They need to come out, make some plays and get their confidence back. Then they need to fight for 60 minutes of NFL football. Regardless of whatever mistakes management may have made with contracts and draft picks the coaches need to coach and the players need to play and not just go through the motions which is what it looks like the coaches and players are doing. Somebody needs to step up and drag this team through this or we're in for a long, long season. Then a complete house cleaning and starting over. Maybe that's what it will take. We'll see.
Thanks, Since '61

I like and respect Lafleur and am cheering with all my heart for him to beat the malaise that this team is in. Saleh is class less, LF has never nor would ever disrespect a team he just beat, especially a friend. You can have your chest pounding supposedly tough coaches; they historically don't win. It is the under control, cerebral coaches that win big. Sure Paul Brown and Bill Walsh yelled and screamed some in practice, but that was not their main motto. The coaches put players in position to win, however they have dropped passes, missed tackles ,and blocks.

I was at the game Sunday and the lack of urgency, intensity and heart was astounding to me!

On offense Rodgers and crew looked lost, discombobulated and SLOW. On one particular play Rodgers ran to the outside, had an easy first down but instead threw across his body back over the middle and almost had it picked. It looked exactly like the plate Brett Favre threw the interception on when he was with the Vikings in the championship game. Rodgers looks like a guy who is milking his last paycheck and playing not to get injured and knows that this team is not a playoff team. The defense looks like they came to play in the first half but they were on the field so much that they were bound to get gas at some point and they did in the third quarter and beyond.
And the special teams of course have not been fixed and why you go out and spend that kind of money on a special teams coach and bring in special teams players, but don’t pick up a legitimate return man is maddening !
Unfortunately, this looks like a below average team At least we’ll have a hair draft choice this year. 

Apologies on the spellcheck

Slide Jenkins to RG and Nijman to RT.

Wonder if there was an Ayahouasca party Saturday night.

After reading these comments, maybe we could all use one...

I like what NickPerry and Bamabadger stated about Saleh—He can motivate and rallies around his players.
And Saleh essentially called the Packers soft, which should be a huge punch in the groin to his good friend LeFluke.
As NickPerry said, repeat that tape over and over.
Go Packers—-and for once, Get Tough!!