A Radical Idea: Sit Some Starters This Week

The Packers should bench these five players, including Rodgers. 

Back in the 1970s, there was an annoying yet effective jingle that went: “Munch, munch, munch a bunch of Fritos, corn chips.”

Here’s a new version to help our current situation: “Bench, bench, bench a bunch of starters, this week.” 

Sing it with me. And let’s start with Aaron Rodgers. 

Yes, this is a serious proposal. Because the Packers are broken in just about every aspect. Because by their own admission, the people running the show don’t know what to do. And because horrible times demand crazy notions. 

So how about the coaches send a message. Break out of the funk. Give some players who are hungry a chance, players who will get up for the game, be tough and aggressive and play their guts out for four quarters.

I don’t care if some guys aren’t quite ready. Neither are the starters. I don’t care if they’ll make mistakes. The starters are doing just fine in that department. I don’t want to see us lose, but what gives us reason to think we will win with the first team? Why not try this against one of the worst teams in the league? 

Here’s the plan:

Benching #1: Rodgers. He’s banged up, he’s frustrated, he’s not leading and he’s gumming up the offense Matt LaFleur is trying to run. Sit him. He’ll be furious. Good. Maybe he’ll come back against the Bills fired up again, with something to prove. He’s always played better when he thinks he’s been dissed. Give Jordan Love a chance to show what he can do when it really matters. We need to find out anyway.

Benching #2: Royce Newman. Any objections? He’s been pathetic. Play Zach Tom, or Sean Rhyan. It can’t be worse. And put Jenkins back at left guard, or sit him as well. (And by the way, can we all acknowledge that Brian Gutekunst really messed up taking Josh Myers ahead of Creed Humphrey?)

Benching #3: Quay Walker. I was never wild about this pick, despite all the pre-season hype. What I see is a guy who is often around the ball, but not usually the playmaker. He seems lost against the run, mysteriously not being used to blitz, and hasn’t distinguished himself in pass coverage. Newcomer Eric Wilson likes to be aggressive; put him in, coach. 

Benching #4: Eric Stokes. It’s hard to know why he’s regressed, when the expectations were so certain for a breakout year. He’s getting his ass kicked. Sit him down and let Nixon play outside while Douglas and Jaire rotate in and out of the slot. Or just plaster Jaire to McLaurin. Maybe this will jolt Stokes back to what he’s flashed previously. 

Benching #5: Darnell Savage. He’s a weak link right now, another mystery. Rudy Ford is a solid ballplayer. Let’s see what he’s got beyond special teams.

Lastly, give Winfree and Toure snaps. Scheme up some plays for them in the middle of the field. I’m sick of hearing about Rodgers’ trust issues. Maybe we can unlock some Love connections. 

Go ahead, flame me. But among other benefits, this would be a surprise to Washington, which could only be an advantage. And Gutekunst is supposed to be a genius at roster depth. I think we could win. Let’s find out.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child.  He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.

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8 points

Comments (88)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NitschkeFromTheGrave's picture

October 21, 2022 at 06:47 am

What? Not even laughable just plain idiotic.
Sit down, be quiet.

Side note:
(Stokes should not be benched, should be CUT.)

-2 points
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NitschkeFromTheGrave's picture

October 21, 2022 at 06:47 am

(duplicate post, delete)

-1 points
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stockholder's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:38 am

I would have put some trade Targets in this Article first. And the smart play might be moving Love. Maybe for Tytus Howard? (HOU) Because if Rodgers does go down. The season is over.

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:23 am

Savage would be my guy to move via trade. McCafferty is now a 49r.

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stockholder's picture

October 21, 2022 at 01:09 pm

Too soon. I still think they extend him.

-1 points
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KenEllis's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:23 am

Bench Walker, Stokes, and Savage?

How dare you question 3 of Gutey's 1st round selections.

Just got to give them time, whole lotta ballgame left, patience with the youngsters - did I forget any cliches to excuse their poor performances?

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:06 am

Coaching and usage are two.

2 points
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HDbikerguy's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:46 am

I can appreciate your first part..... but saying Stokes should be cut is ABSOLUTELY idiotic.... you don't cut a first round pick in year two..... especially when he showed the potential he did starting most of his rookie year....

6 points
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stockholder's picture

October 21, 2022 at 06:54 am

#1. Benching Rodgers is just insanity. You paid him. Got to play him. You want to see what Love can do?? The coaching staff already knows it in practice. Love will be released soon. Cap savings or not. The smart play is to redraft QB this draft.
#2. Where does Runyan play? ( If you move Jenkins back to LG.) Yes, Humphrey was the better center. But it was the Ohio State connection.
#3. No -You don’t bench Walker. Sub Wilson.
#4. Giving up on Stokes is ridicules.
#5. Savage will be replacing Amos. Gutey will keep him.
Winfree should be cut. Toure ! Toure ! Toure! Is the key to the slot!

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:15 am

Toure may not be the savior but he won’t make things materially worse and could make things considerably better than Winfree or just no WR in that role as has been common this year, particularly with playing time . We saw enough in preseason to see that the possibility is genuine.

I’d say the same about guys like Hefflin against run first teams. Guaranteed? No. Possible that known attributes can help? Very much so. Conversely, Walker is struggling, dial it back for him and ask him to focus on less better.

Be more flexible, don’t just hope things will magically fix by mere repetition, try to actively help players contribute. To me that’s one of the key essentials of competent coaching at team, unit and individual levels. We do a lousy job of it. Look at Doubs, we play him in an island with no supporting routes to draw coverage that we ran even for a Adams!

3 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 21, 2022 at 06:57 am

Bench? I don't know. Rotate a bunch I can go with. Give Toure an extended try. Winfree has had his chances.

9 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:50 am

Technically Winfree has had very few routes or targets, which makes his elevation even more baffling, as he wasn’t used heavily in STs and a more aggressive alternative existed (I think that’s the answer really: timidity).

2 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:05 am

Even though I've been trashing the hell out of Rodgers all season and actually agree a benching wouldn't be the worst thing, I like #2 the best. But...

While benching Newman has become a MUST DO type thing and has been for weeks, Sean Ryhan isn't the answer. I mean this guy has been one of the biggest 3rd round disappointments of Gutes long history of 3rd round busts. I'm holding out hope but Ryhan ISN'T the answer. Move Jenkins inside to Guard, I don't care which side, and Yosh Nijman to RT. No matter what the result, it CAN'T be worse than watching Newman getting walked back in Rodgers's lap, or having his man blowup Aaron Jones or Dillon 5 yards behind the LOS.

Sorry, I don't agree with benching Walker or Stokes. Savage is a thought but I'd try to move him closer to the LOS and KEEP him there like they did at the end of the 2020 season and his production skyrocketed. THAT version of Savage is the one everybody has been waiting for, Problem is they REFUSE to use him that way again.

I'd replace #3, 4, and 5, with firing Joe Barry. Look, the guy has FAILED as a DC. He's a Linebackers coach. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I know Jerry Gray is the secondary coach and they can't seem to defend a crossing pattern, but I think he'd do a MUCH better job, including knowing how in the hell to use Quay Walker.

8 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:20 am

Nick, they've been talking about (and I've been rooting for) the move of Savage to the slot and moving Douglass back with Amos. I haven't seen it. Why haven't they tried it? Or have I just missed it? Speed in the slot to make up for mistakes and smarts and tackling on top seems a good combo to me.

5 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:16 am

Hi Steve...Completely agree with you on this. Move Savage to the "Star" position, Douglas and his ball skills to Safety, and keep Stokes and Alexander on the outside playing IN THE FACE of the opposing WR!

4 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:20 am

Thanks. Have you seen if they've tied it this year yet?

1 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:39 am

I don't thnk so, at least that I've noticed. With Barry I doubt we will.

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:11 am

"Because the Packers are broken in just about every aspect. Because by their own admission, the people running the show don’t know what to do. And because horrible times demand crazy notions. "
How are the Packers broken in about every aspect?
The OL has struggled. Bakhtiari and Jenkins are working their way back from torn ACL's. Myers has started his 11th game as a pro. He is still a work in progress. Newman has been awful, but lets not forget they started the season with him starting at RT.
The WR's have struggled. Mostly because of injuries they have struggled. Lazard missed the first game, but has been back since. Watson has been in and out from hammy injuries. Watkins has missed 4 games from a hamstring injury. Cobb is now out for who knows how long. They have already brought Winfree up from the PS 3 times.
The Defense has struggled. I think mostly due to play calling and how they were using the players, the defense has struggled. I thought they played really good against the Jets overall. They had a couple of bad plays go against them.

After all of that we need to blow it up with radical ideas?

Radical ideas like benching Rodgers? Huh?

Serious question. Is this about Rodgers on the field or Rodgers off the field? From what I have seen people that dislike the off field Rodgers hate him on field more.

Ok, lets dive into this a little deeper.

First, I would assume you didn't see any of the cut ups that wonderful people have done showing what really is going on. Dusty Evely did a tremendous job on the play that Rodgers fumbled on. The one where Runyan gets turned around and is trying to box out Williams by facing Rodgers and Williams on his back.
Dan Orlavsky and JT O'Sullivan also did great work breaking down what is really going on with the Packers offense, and what Rodgers is talking about simplifying things. They showed how routes are ran poorly, how the OL 4 guys block one way the 5th blocks another. How balls are hitting WRs in the hands and they flat out drop it.

If your plan is to bench Rodgers, then you might as well cut him. And if you are going to Bench Rodgers for whatever reason. You might as well bench every starter on the team.

1 points
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PatrickGB's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:35 am

Very thin line between bold and foolish.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:42 am

I don't like to bash writers or anything. But this article was definitely on the foolish side.

-3 points
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MainePackFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 02:55 pm

Yep. Though I appreciate him taking the time to waste our time and his :)

-4 points
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Packers1985's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:34 am

Exactly i have seen all the references you mentioned above for our struggles on offense and ppl want to blame Rodgers for all this. Agreed he isn't playing as well as he used but again there are multiple reasons like you mentioned above that contributed to his and the team's performances to drop drastically. There are many good plays that started to develop against Jets until someone on oline messed ot some wr's running wrong route killing the timing.

Many simply say run the ball if our oline plays like it is playing the last 2 games i am afraid that running the ball will not help much either. Aaron Jones wont be surviving till the year end with the hit he took against the Jets.

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:57 am

The timing of this offense is just off.

I really do feel like a lot of it is from out OL. There have been a number of plays that Rodgers simply couldn't get through his progressions because of pressure. And there have been a number of times that he is about to throw it to a WR running open and he gets hit or whatnot.
Also the running game hasn't' been that good which is a result of the OL not doing very well.
And how many big plays have been called back due to holding or whatever.

And they haven't been able to maintain drives because they keep shooting themselves in the feet. Last week Winfree drops a catch that likely gets a first down. Lazard drops a 3rd down pass. There have been to many of those.

This is a team sport. We can put blame all onto one person or whatnot, but it takes everyone. On offense it takes all 11 on the field to make the plays work.

-2 points
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Packers1985's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:48 pm

Couldn't agree more and penalties at crucial times killed the drives. Yes there have been multiple drops last week ofcourse some are not pretty balls but when in hands the wr's should make those catches. Currently i doubt we have any Wr's who could make those contested catches consistently.

1 points
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Razer's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:29 am

Need to bench some Cheesehead TV staff is more like it. Benching Rodgers for playing behind a C grade line accomplishes nothing other than killing the one thing that you built your franchise around. Can you bench your coach(s)?

11 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:29 am

Here's a thought... I just saw the 49ers traded for Christian McCaffrey. They gave up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the 2023 draft and an extra 5th in 2024. Whether you think it's worth it or not isn't my point. The 49ers had a chance to go get a guy who will make a difference and did it.

I think Chase Claypool could make a difference. I liked him coming out and was hoping the Packers would have taken either Claypool, Pittman, or Higgens in that 2020 draft. But right now Gute can't think about trading away a PRECIOUS draft pick.

Start with offering a 3rd rounder since Gute couldn't hit on a 3rd round pick and go from there. Gute hasn't hit on a 3rd rounder yet, and a 3rd and a 5th, or even a 3rd and a 4th aren't too much for Claypool. Even if it is WHO CARES! Go get him Gute. Whether Rodgers is here next year or not, he'd be a GREAT addition to the WR room. He's BIG, just like Gute likes and he has pretty good hands. He'd instantly become the #1 in GB and actually give the Packers someone the defense would fear...At least a little...
IT IS TIME!!!

7 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:37 am

Or get a tackle that wasn't on someone's practice squad if they don't trust the guys they have to play RT.

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:40 am

I'm good with that.

I will say this about the 3rd round picks. While Deguara hasn't done a lot yet, I have really liked his play especially the last couple of games. I think he needs to get more playing time. I think he is figuring things out and could really add to the offense if used more.

5 points
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Packers1985's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:36 am

Though deguara's pick was a reach agreed he seems to playing good this last couple of games. Like you mentioned they should start using him more

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:59 am

His first couple of years have been a lot of injuries. He is healthy now, and kind of the forgotten guy. But, these last couple of games to me he has really flashed.

I would definitely like to see him getting more opportunities in the passing game.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:23 am

A difference that costs draft capital just to lose more is a pointless exercise. If we sign anyone it would require us to believe that he (we likely can’t afford they) make us true contenders to win it all. Do you really think Claypool or even Slayton might? To me it’s all grasping at straws when the issues are much more profound internally.

4 points
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gpt999's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:18 am

Yes to Claypool ONLY if they can fix the Oline!

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 21, 2022 at 02:32 pm

Yes! Bringing in a player with questionable effort can only help a floundering team!

From a Steelers site:

"I called out Claypool on our Know Your Enemy podcast on Wednesday for what I could only view as a lack of love for the game. Half efforts, stopping on routes altogether, and not trying to work open or back to his quarterback in trouble outside the pocket. Those situations are effort plays, and reveal a player's intestinal fortitude. His desire to be great, and willingness to compete."

No thanks.

3 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:58 pm

Hmmm... And I went on a Steelers site and those fans clearly liked him. It was called Steeler Nation. The fact is you can go on ANY site and read positive OR negative things about a player.

Fans are fanatics... Fans, writers, broadcasters, it doesn't matter. You can 3 people about a player and get 3 entirely different comments. Both positive and negative.

2 points
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Ryan3468's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:34 am

I would Love to see Rodgers benched. I think it would give him time to heal up, and also see where he is out of his mind if he thinks that old hat is gonna fit and trying to force it while losing to inferior teams because his ego can’t let go of the amazing years. Run the ball. Keep running it. Throw a few passes, but yet the ball out quickly. Quit being desperate, and impatient. Quit talking about how words affect things. Let’s see some action. A little life in the legs. Play smarter and leave the hero ball in the past. Also lower all expectations of this team. For now. They are really not that good. It’s like the players we have are being coached to do what a different set of players could accomplish. And if we were coaching the players we have we would be better. Also never put Rasul Douglas in the slot again.

-1 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:49 am

This would send a message...FROM WHO the incompetent coaching staff?? Who will bench MLF when says one more time "we have to get Jones more involved"?? Funny dramatic stuff...im sure the Rodgers haters will love it...bench the guy who's carried this team and it woeful coaching staff's the past many years...

6 points
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Packers2020's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:52 am

Benching #1: Rodgers. The reason I bench AR is because of his thumb issue. You could see it was an issue last week. If I was going to keep him out, it would have been last week but now I am assuming his thumb has healed more. I highly doubt they bench AR; especially, with the money he is being paid. Also, Love is not going to give us the chance to win games more than AR.

Benching #2: Royce Newman. This guy is horrid. I have been saying this for a while. Move Jenkins back to Guard and put Nijman at RT. Why is ML so against playing Yosh Nijman anyway?

Benching #3: Quay Walker. I like the comment of why he is not blitzing more. Walker is not being used correctly, IMO. They have him playing zone and he obviously is not ready for that. Put him in position to succeed and use his speed and athletic ability.

Benching #4: Eric Stokes. Stokes is a man-to-man CB. They have been playing more zone. This is on Barry. Now has Stokes taken a jump? Maybe not but you do not play zone with a guy like Stokes or Alexander. Use the players strengths and put them in position to succeed.

Benching #5: Darnell Savage. This I agree with. Bench Savage. He is not the guy we thought he was. We need to draft a safety next year. Maybe even two.

Lastly, give Winfree and Toure snaps- Winfree is nothing honestly. He does nothing for me. I would be willing to give Toure some snaps to see what he can do. At least he has some potential. Winfree has been in the league and is a UFA. he not going to get any better.

I get what you are trying to do here but let's also put some of the blame on the coaching staff and the scheme that is being put into play here. This is on everybody not just the players.

2 points
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barutanseijin's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:13 pm

Another defense heavy draft? They keep doing that and the result is what you see on Sundays.

1 points
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Texastoast's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:58 am

I'm not sure that benching anyone is the answer.
From day one of camp I haven't felt that there was a whole lot of competition for positions. So, like last week, Newmann gets replaced, knowing full well that he'd be back in if things went bad.
These guys are making, in some cases, millions of dollars. Some will be motivated to work to earn that, and some will pocket the money and spend it first chance they get. It is up to coaches and staff to determine which person is which.
By my own untrained eye, why for example is Hefflin not playing?? He isn't a high draft choice, or maybe not the most physically gifted, but he impresses me as the type that would step on his own mother to beat you. If I'm going to get beat, that's who I'd like to be on the field. I know what I'm going to be getting every play.
I won't point out who I feel is coasting, and I do feel that much of the perceived lack of effort is confusion, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of blood and guts out there.
( As much as I couldn't stand him) A Ray Lewis type person on the field, wouldn't be the worst thing for us.
As long as peep's are suggesting changes on the O line, here is my idea...
Jenkins back to LG, Tom to center, Meyers to RG and Nijman to RT. I really feel Meyers can block, just simplify it for him a bit. Tom seems to me to be built for center, a little shorter than some-compact. Yosh will take time to get adjusted but he'll get there.

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:13 am

I've never thought of that O-line before. I'd hesitate taking JRJ off the field though. Something I like about a guy that hasn't been charged with a penalty this year (and all last year).

2 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:03 am

Nothing good can come from going full Ben McAdoo. Newman has to go, sure, but replacing confused, poorly-coached starters with lesser skilled poorly-coached athletes won't fix what needs afixin' on this team. It would be exciting at first, the on-field equivalent of firing all the higher-ups at 1265, but then, once the adrenaline rush was gone we'd all be riding a slow train to Regret City.

5 points
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barutanseijin's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:10 pm

Gotta protect that investment in the 12 jersey.

Enjoy staying the course as the losses pile up.

0 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 22, 2022 at 04:54 pm

Everything okay at home, little buddy?

0 points
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Oppy's picture

October 22, 2022 at 07:00 pm

Never go full Ben McAdoo.

You'll go home empty-handed.

0 points
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egbertsouse's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:14 am

Benching Rodgers would take the kind of balls that nobody in this FO has.

Benching Newman is an imperative. If it doesn’t happen the whole FO should be put on a bus for parts unknown.

The other benchings? I don’t buy in to the defensive talent hype the media has been peddling since training camp. The guys you mention are a bunch of JAGs. Replace them with other JAGs? Sure, why not. Couldn’t hurt.

1 points
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Gee's picture

October 21, 2022 at 06:21 pm

Is the defense, media hype failure or scheme? I get all the stats on man to man coverage, and how its not used at the rate I would like. Still when I hear Savage to the star, Douglas to FS, Amos stays and just let the other 2 play tight man coverage, I love it, really love it. I'm already ok with splash plays the other teams, may or may not make on this defense. Before the season started all we heard was the d-line improving and the secondary was real good. I got on board with the secondary, cause I still believe its that good, with some adjustments. I never thought of the idea of Savage to the star, but it makes sense to me. Dude has 4.3 speed and let's see what he has at that spot. It will be clear if he can or can not in the next few weeks. This defense needs a spark, and if the cbs can hold for just a second more, who knows maybe the front gets home.

0 points
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PatrickGB's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:17 am

I get the anger and frustration. When that happens the feeling arises that something must be done. The mind goes to radical solutions in order to help us feel better. So our emotions take over the brain. Never let one’s emotions rule the brain.

It’s ok to think outside the box just make sure that your emotions are not the source of your reaction and reasoning.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:39 am

In order to bench Rodgers, and that type of move can be very effective in shaking up a team, one has to have a plan.

Look at it this way, if we take out Rodgers it suggests that he’s clearly seen as preventing us from doing what the team is designed to do. Forget Love, hypothetically, assume we have Mahommes. Do we really think he turns this O into a dynamic force? Do we really think we would emerge with an unrecognizable Offensive game plan?

I suspect we’d come out exactly like we did in Love’s prior playing time last year: playing “Rodgers” ball without Rodgers. It was extraordinarily telling that LaFleur had no plan developed for the eventuality that Rodgers was hurt (or hit Covid). It was ridiculous putting any newbie out in a Rodgers game plan. It still is.

Would Love magically change the play calls and personnel usage? If the answer is based on last year, no. If he would, then we have admission that Rogers and LaFleur can’t coexist productively. If that’s the case, Rodgers is still an asset and one we are unable to move on from anyway for cap reasons and LaFleur should be out of the door already. The question is not, if this is true, can we find better, but that better would start with no LaFleur and just letting Rodgers execute as he wishes (and is largely in this scenario) but without the interference.

You bench when a player is not performing through lack of effort, through obvious lack of ability, or when they refuse to play within the game plan AND you really believe that this is detrimental. If you don’t see it as detrimental, you look at the coach, not the player.

I don’t think Rodgers the HC wins us a Super Bowl. I do think he might get us to the best place we can be this year. That pretty much trashed the value of LaFleur.

As to the others, I’m looking at coaching and wondering how much is that the fault (schemes/game plan/roles and their fit with the individual). Are we blaming players when they are being made to fight their limitations or being the fall guy for a unit that is dysfunctional and if so is that the major issue? If it is, it’s the ask not the player.

Savage has regressed since Barry arrived. Is that coincidence or not? The answer is critical. Walker is a big problem but also a big talent. Is it his fault or his coaches using him beyond his experience? Toure has talent. He’s raw. Should we be trotting out less talent or just less WRs as we often do, it is it over caution? Jones isn’t being utilized enough. Whose fault is that? If it truly is Rodgers then he’d be on the field and perhaps it is time to bench, because we would be better with our best weapon running more, but he’s not. Coach not QB.

When a team has a QB willing to throw long and yet ends up with by far the lowest yards per target in the league, I think it’s the scheme and usage first. Not least because that approach maximizes pressure and all the bad things once diagnosed. The scheme we have run is vanilla, predictable and excessively cautious in terms of personnel, both individuals and how they are used and the routes run. We make it easy to defend when we do go deeper because it’s almost always an isolated route and often to a slower WR. The big problem isn’t the QB. It’s the coaching, and that timidity seems to now have permeated both sides of the ball and to be leaking into individual play.

Don’t bench players unless you have better in the context of performance within their ask. If it’s largely scheme, the replacements will have similar problems. Attack the root. In our case, that starts with removing LaFleur and instilling a different set of expectations along with a more aggressive attitude throughout. We’ve seen two coaches in a row now do more with less talent and beat us through instilled desire. That’s enough for me.

LaFleur is the problem. It won’t improve till he’s gone meaningfully. He’s not a Man I trust to get the best out of any QB based in his time here.

8 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:46 am

Well said. I agree

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:08 am

Like you say: With Rodgers or Love you'd still have the same problem. Coaches! Any D will beat them because there have been no adjustments in the O to defeat what they're doing. "We just need to execute better." is not the answer in the NFL. You have to plan to take away what they're doing.

5 points
5
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:30 am

That is a hollow mantra. It’s week 7. If we can’t execute adequately now over multiple units, why? Why is it that veterans who could before now aren’t?

I’d love for a media type to respond with that. The statement is a basic, candid admission of coaching failure that seems to me to shift that to the players. Not a good recipe for a collegial team spirit.

5 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 21, 2022 at 02:40 pm

Much of their issues are from lack of execution though. Poor footwork by the OL, receivers not running precise routes etc etc etc. You could have Einstein scheming up the gameplan, it doesn't matter if the fundamentals suck. Right now the fundamentals suck and I'm not sure there's a presence on that staff that will demand accountability.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:29 pm

Execution means poor play. Unless the poor play is inability or attitude, it’s Placing the onus on the player for something a decent coach would have remedied.

1 points
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JerseyCheese's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:46 am

CheeseHeadTV just letting anyone write for their site these days, huh? This isn't high school. The bench isn't the best coach. These are paid professionals. They just need to play better and they have enough talent to do that.

Too much negative BS on this site. Article about Rodgers time is up, rebuild mode and now this! They are 3-3. Calm the F down.

0 points
6
6
Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:02 am

I disagree. I disagree with the author too, as I’ve made clear above, but I will take his realization that something needs to change over the inability to see that there is more wrong than a Newman or Savage or whomever.

This team is at odds with itself, to me that’s beyond obvious at this point and was predictable back before the preseason. That’s only been magnified through the summer and games, primarily by the coaching and personnel decisions I think.

This author at least sees that there are deeper issues. He’s brought that to the fore. I may not agree, but it’s a necessary step in any rational debate over this team, season and future. He’s at least challenging your concept that the status quo is ok, just as our play has.

4 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:13 am

I am calm. Are you?

The concern is the 3-3 record is understating the decline of the team. It may foreshadow even more difficulty because the coaching staff in general seems unable, unwilling, or too timid to assertively adjust, change or deal with adversity.

The Packers loss to the vyqueens had the Packers 0-3 in their last 3 games.

Barry's defense was already being figured out in the last half of 2021 when they played their worst football. He has changed nothing. Same prevent, soft zone for his playmaker DBs and now he has his ILBs playing it too, deep behind the line being mostly chasers after a play...total misuse of talent. Rarely attacks...mostiy responds to the opponent.

The "Illusion of Complexity" using a dedicated run game setting up passes with different plays out of the same formation and motion has become an "Illusion of Competence". Run game gets shelved early because Rodgers hates motion and play action...loves perimeter chunk play hero ball aka MM.

The 3-0 weak win streak against bares, banged up Bucs, and 3rd stringer Pats could all easily have been losses.

I am calmly observing this team is light years closer to being 0-6 vs 6-0.

4 points
4
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JerseyCheese's picture

October 21, 2022 at 12:00 pm

Yup, let's blow up the team and start fresh. Or better yet, let's bench starters that are taking up majority of our cap space and get a better position in the draft.

Keep this same energy when the Packers go on their win streak that they do EVERY YEAR!

0 points
1
1
canadapacker's picture

October 21, 2022 at 09:54 am

Who wrote the title Radical move - dumb title for a dumb sequence of events - Shouldnt write and post things from a bar buddie. But if you wanted clicks I guess you got clicks. Fixing the Oline will fix almost everything - will it get some receivers open - no = will it have AR take the short open guys rather than waiting for the long guys to get open - probably not = But will it send a note to AR - we want you to play better - What exact planet are you on ??? I agree with others who have said that if the O stays on the field longer then the D might not melt near the end. Was pretty happy against the Jets with the more aggressive approach - and yes Stokes didnt play well and didnt tackle well - but others have not been playing well either = Douglas too many dumb penalties = cost us possessions in London - Let us just see if Lafleur has the balls to change that Oline around to protect AR and open holes for the running backs -

1 points
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HarryHodag's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:06 am

I hope we haven't gotten into the ayahuasca here. I think most of us would agree Newman should sit, but Rodgers? So you think having him on the bench improves the chances of winning? When AR is running for his health and getting sacked, that's not on him dude. Benching Rodgers is perhaps the silliest thing I've seen here ever.
Quay Walker has been OK. for a rookie. The better question is where has Campbell been? Benching Walker, like Rodgers, doesn't improve things. The backup QB(or linebacker) is a backup for a reason.

Stokes is ok. We all forget he's in his second year. Scheme issue?

Rudy Ford is a great special teamer. Think the opponents won't notice Savage is gone?

This entire column can be summed up nicely: the backups are backups for a reason and them being in there won't IMPROVE much. Maybe it's the defensive scheme that everyone has figured out?

1 points
3
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LambeauPlain's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:25 am

"So how about the coaches send a message..."

How about the COACHES are sent a message? Total misuse of talent on both sides of the ball.

But there is the conundrum. Who would send the coaches a message? Wouldn't be Gutey. It would have to be Murphy the self anointed GM, I guess. Who knows?

ML: "Look, you gotta get Brian off my back. He keeps insisting we use our players better. I don't need this. I am trying to fix some things and Brian is just taking up my time."

Murphy: "Hey Brian. Look I know you have some frustration here, we all do. But leave Matt alone. If you have an issue with how players are being used, bring it up to me, or better yet, at next week's committee meeting."

3 points
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Since'61's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:29 am

Before we bench anyone please refer to the attached articles:

https://sports.yahoo.com/aaron-rodgers-thinks-he-can-fix-the-packers-bro...

https://flipboard.com >orlovsky-on-packers-offense-10-guys-right-one-guy-wrong.

Some good comments in both of these articles. Regardless I would still move Jenkins to LG, Runyon to RG and Zach Tom or Nijman to RT.

Thanks, Since '61

4 points
4
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 10:40 am

Rodgers comments about the west coast O ought to be concerning. That’s really going back to late era MM. just beat your man and perfect your routes/reads. It can, as Rodgers said, be beautiful done well. But that requires a very talented group who also have a lot of time together under their belts. That is NOT this roster.

That in the context of this year is exactly the least compatible approach. I read it and it just screamed denial and Cobb Lazard ball. That’s the kind of roster we had 10 years ago before Rodgers ate so much cap and we invested in D and RBs heavily.

It just made me wonder what both he and we were thinking when the extension was signed. It also makes me wonder how Murphy thought LaFleur’s vision would ever fit here with Rodgers. Did Murphy ever ask Rodgers for his view in that offensive tree? It seems pretty obvious that Rodgers would have been unconvinced. If so one had to go.

4 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:10 am

Rodgers bragged publicly on some site this week that "he can fix the offense." Ruh Roh.

Mr. Hero Ball said he barked at ML this week in practice "can we just run a play without f*cking motion all the time?!?"

This is what happens when the boss is trying to be best buddies with teacher's pet. Kind of reminds me of relationship between Michael and Ryan on "The Office". (Non office fans: Boss Michael lets arrogant, self absorbed Ryan do whatever he wants and defends his every mistake.)

2 points
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3
Since'61's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:45 pm

Coldworld sorry but I respectfully disagree. These comments from Rodgers provide us with a glimpse of what Rodgers is thinking about, what MLF is trying to do and how badly management has messed up with this team.

First, Rodgers would prefer to run at least a version of the West Coast offense with much less pre snap motion. He is basing that upon the fact that the Packers have an inexperienced receiving corps and a few new OLs.
The West Coast offense would help the receivers and the OL. Everyone lines up, knows their assignments and Rodgers reads the defense to find the best matchup. The receivers run their routes and the ball comes out quickly. Rodgers knows where everyone is going and the receivers know their routes.

MLF's approach requires the receivers to lineup, then at least one of them goes in motion and lines up again and then they run their routes after the defense has adjusted to the motion. We're asking our young receivers to do 3 things correctly before we even snap the ball. We wee Rodgers trying to get his players lined up correctly at least a few times a game and then he needs to call timeout to prevent a penalty.

In the West Coast offense we're asking them to lineup and run their routes. Plus the ball is released before the DLs can off their blocks and rush the QB.

The bigger point is that MLF is not leveraging the talents of his best player, Rodgers, to run the offense that he is most effective in. We consistently see posts here about creating schemes to leverage our players talents and we're trying to run an offense that does the opposite. We've seen Rodgers run the MLF offense and win 2 MVPs but he knows he can't run the MLF offense with his current receivers and OL.

Beyond MLF why did Murphy spend all this money to extend Rodgers when he and the Head Coach are not in sync with their offense? Rodgers should have been traded and MLF should have been allowed to insert Love to run his offense. To me this is clearly a case of poor communication between Murphy, Gute and MLF. Murphy's decision to extend Rodgers is directly opposed to the players Gute is drafting to enable MLF to his offense. Yet MLF strongly advocated for the Packers to retain Rodgers!!???!!

For a small organization the Packers management is very dysfunctional. Rodgers knows and understands all of this so is it any wonder that he looks so put off when he is on the field. His comments put a very different perspective on the Packers current situation.

Also the article by Orlovsky does a great job of highlighting the OL problems which also must be a signficant source of frustration for Rodgers.

Having said the above alll of this should have been worked out during TC and the preseason but obviously wasn't.
That's on the coaching staff. As for the defense, that's a conversation for a different article but who chose to hire Barry and we know at least part of our answer. Thanks, Since '61

-1 points
1
2
Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:26 pm

The West Coast system has much simpler aspects. But as Rodgers himself said it’s all about timing … it’s a simpler concept that’s very time consuming to perfect. That’s not this roster and not our timeline. It might have been possible if we’d stared in May and we had taught each rookie a condensed playbook and been willing to rotate them in and out. I doubt it would have worked smoothly, but it could have been better than this now and better yet by December. However, Lazard, Cobb and Watkins would have to carry the load and aren’t a prototypical west cost group either.

1 points
1
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Oppy's picture

October 22, 2022 at 09:14 pm

Respectfully, this would not help WRs.

WCO calls on WR's to read and react in real-time, modifying their routes based on how the defense is playing them. Also, per Rodgers' direct quote, the WRs are expected to be at a specific spot on the field at a specific time, as it's (the WCO) a timing offense.

Asking a WR to be at a specific spot at a specific time while they are actively changing the way they run their route based on how the defense is changing around them is not simplifying for the inexperienced WR- it's simplifying for the veteran QB who knows every nuance of the particular offense.

All Rodgers' comments tell me is he's still actively resisting the HC's offense.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:40 am

"Regardless I would still move Jenkins to LG, Runyon to RG and Zach Tom or Nijman to RT."

I think this would be the best move, moving forward. I think for the long run this would give them the best OL overall. As Bakhtiari and Jenkins get better and healthier, they will solidify the left side. Runyan I dont' think will have issues switching from left to right side. RT is the question with Yosh or Tom there. I think they try Yosh first but wouldn't be surprised if they went with Tom.

Now that being said what I think they will do, is I think they move Jenkins to RG, and put Yosh or Tom at RT. OR they just put Tom at RG.

I do believe they are making changes this week. We will likely have to wait until sunday to see them though.

1 points
1
0
gpt999's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:15 am

This is just a silly, idiotic article. It just feeds the flames of blame and emotion when good, hard decision making should prevail.

The fastest short term way to fix many of the problems with GB is to FIX THE OFFENSIVE LINE. They have the horses if they wish to use them. The offensive brain trust must put the right players in the right places to be successful. Fixing the line would (1) allow the offence to run and pass the ball better and (2) keep the defense off the field more so than in previous games. Its not rocket science.

Don't look to finding a star WR when QB is running for his life every time he drops back. That's like putting an extension on your house without a solid foundation.

Don't bench obvious starters with subs, in most cases. Even though we may be seeing father time catching up with Rodgers, I would rather see Rodgers have time to make a pass versus throwing a 2nd stringer in there.

I want to hear and see fans cheer the Pack at home and not boo them. I want GB to field a team that "can" win. Mostly, I just want to see GB win. Anybody disagree? GPG

-3 points
1
4
HarlanHuckleby's picture

October 21, 2022 at 12:25 pm

I like the idea to bench Rodgers for a game, but not to necessarily "send a message" (I'm sure he'd take it as a slight, though). I think if you put Love in the game he will run much closer to the coaches' desired scheme and not ad-lib, which gives the coaching staff a better idea of what to tweak (scheme vs. personnel vs. execution). Going forward, I think everyone (including Rodgers and Love) think Love is approaching starter caliber but Rodgers remains the better bet, and Rodgers can view the Love tape (and if Love has success with the scheme, perhaps that's where a message comes in). I know it's not the best policy to screw around with a regular season game to figure things out, but they already seem dedicated to doing that week 1 each year now, and a currently in an undeniable funk.

0 points
1
1
AnotherLombardiPlease's picture

October 21, 2022 at 12:42 pm

Wow, just wow. This is idiotic. If your car needs some repairs, you don't start by ripping out the engine.

-2 points
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2
Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 01:27 pm

That depends on if the engine is shot. Retouching paintwork is pointless if the drive is the issue. That’s really the debate here. It’s not an idiotic article, though I disagree with the proposal he’s at least looking under the hood.

I see such reactions to his piece as suggestive of a knee jerk reaction against the kind of self questioning that I suspect led the organization here. Better to test one’s assumptions before relying in them. The author is at least doing that and throwing out a solution for debate that isn’t just tinkering.

4 points
4
0
AnotherLombardiPlease's picture

October 21, 2022 at 08:32 pm

If I do have a knee jerk reaction, it's against fans presuming they know so much more than the folks running the show for the Packers. Do you think LaFleur and Gutekunst are idiots, incapable of understanding the issues that currently plague our team? I don't. To the contrary, they see all the games, review all the tape, see the players in practice, and know the personalities. They know a heck of a lot more about the NFL and the Green Bay Packers than the fans do -- even the many knowledgable ones here on CHTV. I'm sure they've considered (and likely rejected) many times over each and every one of the proposals in this article.

I seldom interact anymore but continue to comb Packer websites for information and perspectives. CHTV has much to offer but I do think that a lot of analysis from fans is little more than hot air.

-1 points
0
1
Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:41 pm

Is knee jerk acceptance so much more justified than knee jerk disagreement? Look at the product and how we got here and I’d say that there are genuine signs that your trust is, and has been, misplaced, and that this season that is being exposed. A majority of coaches and GMs do not prove successful. Nether title justifies uncritical trust in their wisdom when play consistently refutes that.

2 points
2
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AnotherLombardiPlease's picture

October 22, 2022 at 12:36 am

It's a performance based league and players, coaches, and general managers get canned regularly. However, do you think the NFL scours the internet looking for fans whose brilliant insights make teams slap their foreheads and think, now why didn't we think of that??

C'mon, do you REALLY think the folks at CHTV (you and I included) know more about the Packers than the folks who are being paid the big bucks to run it?

0 points
1
1
barutanseijin's picture

October 22, 2022 at 01:08 am

Fans said Matt Millen was an idiot. Were they wrong?

How about Gettleman? Pace?

Fans are sometimes the first to see the problem. It’s not rocket science — despite what they’d have you believe.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

October 22, 2022 at 09:42 am

I was not aware that this was a forum for job applications or, conversely, required one to leave critical thinking at the door.

0 points
0
0
AnotherLombardiPlease's picture

November 01, 2022 at 12:40 pm

I'm a huge fan of critical thinking but not the uninformed sweeping generalities that tend to dominate this forum.

0 points
0
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brenner's picture

October 21, 2022 at 02:21 pm

The OL failures have caused the vast majority of offensive problems. Need to get rid of Newman, and Hansen so they don't put him in anymore either. Put Jenkins back at LG, move Runyan to RG and Nijman at RT. Put lewis out there to help the right side and RUN THE GODDAMN BALL!!

as for benching guys completely, it won't help matters any. Get on the phone with Jim Leonhard to replace Barry. Problem solved. Barry obviously doesn't get that your not supposed to play prevent defense all the time. I'd rather see aggressive misses than giving teams a 10 yard cushion and still missing.

0 points
1
1
Fubared's picture

October 21, 2022 at 04:31 pm

Rodgers want the authority to run the offense instead of LeFluer if you beleive the gaul of that guy. I think Rodgers is pissed off because he has at least two guys who cant learn the play book and are screwing up and he wants to call some plays they do know.
Right now it too dam complicated. Pluse we have two on defense who are the same and dont understand their roles in pass coverage.

-2 points
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2
Fubared's picture

October 21, 2022 at 04:31 pm

Rodgers want the authority to run the offense instead of LeFluer if you beleive the gaul of that guy. I think Rodgers is pissed off because he has at least two guys who cant learn the play book and are screwing up and he wants to call some plays they do know.
Right now it too dam complicated. Pluse we have two on defense who are the same and dont understand their roles in pass coverage.

0 points
0
0
barutanseijin's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:02 pm

But but but if the Packers bench Rahhjerzz they’ll lose to teams like the Giants-n-Jets. Imagine that!

These guys aren’t getting it done. I agree; give someone else a chance.

0 points
0
0
fangirl's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:27 pm

If anyone should be benched, it's those who show no effort.

1 points
1
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Coldworld's picture

October 21, 2022 at 11:43 pm

LaFleur? Oh, wait, that’s vision

1 points
1
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fangirl's picture

October 21, 2022 at 07:27 pm

If anyone should be benched, it's those who show no effort.

0 points
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Harold Drake's picture

October 22, 2022 at 02:06 am

This is the worst article that I have ever seen on the CheeseheadTV website. It also wins the supreme Luddite award for spouting utter nonsense based on a diminished capacity to think. But perhaps it was allowed to be published in order to draw out CHTV's lunatic fringe who seem to forget that the Packers have won 13 games in each of the last three seasons and are simply experiencing difficulty in stabilizing the offensive line while Rodgers tries to cope with the loss of two-thirds of his starting receivers, including Davante Adams, arguably the best WR in the NFL. But what's the point in running a story like this which makes a mockery of the many fine writers who contribute to CHTV?

-1 points
1
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Coldworld's picture

October 22, 2022 at 09:54 am

Hmm, the worst article to which your most scathing retort is it’s being mean to Rodgers. Sounds like you choked on the content not on the quality of thinking.

Thanks, CHTV and the author, for drawing out some unpleasant but plausible themes. It’s promoted some interesting responses and flushed out a whole lot of unwillingness to even contemplate. Perhaps if there was less of that in Lombardi Ave., we might be doing better.

I say this having disagreed with the recommendations at length. Proposals aren’t wrong in the making, but refusal to rationally consider and then debunk the erroneous before discounting it is a great way to perdition.

-1 points
0
1
croatpackfan's picture

October 22, 2022 at 04:28 am

Johnatan, I almost agree with you.

Today Packers team is broken, disjoint and that produce all those mistakes, brain fahrts and discontentment. As consequence you got uninspired team that makes a lot of mistakes.

For me, I would bench ACR, not to make him angry, but to give him time his thumb to heal and to recover from lot of impacts he suffered vs Jets and Giants. Let Love shows what he can do.

Second, I agree with posters that playing second stringers may produce team who will show even worse outing that Packers showing today. They never played together without at least one starter who may help them to do what they suppose to do. So, I'm for playing more second tier players in combination with starters. This will give starters less playing time and keep them fresh for the next week. It can be good, as players have huge game next week.

Third, I would not bench Stokes, but play him and Jaire press one on one coverage, move Savage to star and play Douglas as FS. I will also, during the game have Amos on snap count and use Ford on snap count and fill the rest of the snaps with Abernathy.

It is shame that Packers do not have at disposal Barnes as very good run stopper. This will help Campbell to take some other responsibility as LB. Do we have similar players to Barnes on the roster?

Only starters I would play are OLB Gary and Preston, but in rotation with Enagbare.

I agree with Coldworld that the main questions in todays problems with Packers are one very important question. Is the offensive mess on MLF and OC or is it on ACR. I'm sure that ACR changes some play calls at line of scrimmage, but we really do not know in what extend. Playing one game with Jordan Love can give an idea what MLF and Stenavich offense really is and how much of impact ACR has on plays during the game.

Another problem I can see, and what is pointed out by Coldworld, is that looks like MLF is the main culprit for a lot of uninspiring offensive efforts. Despite I believe that father time catch ACR it is hard to address all O slackness to him. But, in that way we might have evidence that MLF can't design game plan around strength of his available players, but rather keeps some shematic ideas that he believe it should work. Same to say for Joe Barry.

While I agree on Since'61 that WCO is much simplier and might help young recivers players to play better, I see problem that MLF was implementing through TC "his" system of "Invisible illusion" so that WCO concepts, despite they are simple, may produce more mistakes and lower the level of confidence in young players.

Regarding Winfree, he was promoted from PS already 3 times this season and they should not be able to promote him any more, only if they will sign him to active roster. What I seriously doubt. So, it might finally be Samori Toure time. Lets see what we have with him.

Also, I believe it is hard to evaluate anyone in simulation of the game, the true evaluation comes by doing real thing, in this case by playing significant game that matters.

But, as we all knows all this talk is just mind game. It will never happen...

1 points
1
0
packanimal's picture

October 23, 2022 at 12:39 pm

Here's an idea so radical I bet nobody has ever thought it, much less proposed it: release Amari Rodgers (that other Rodgers who's escaped attention in this threat) immediately. I offer to drive him to the airport.

0 points
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