A Tornado of Terrible

How multiple failures in the passing game conspire to doom the Packers.

 

Of all the baffling, hair-pulling, rage-inducing things about the Packers this year, the relationship between the offense and the middle of the field is near the top of the list. Because it’s broken, and encompasses so much of what has killed this season for Green Bay.
 
Game after game, it’s been easy to see how much the passing offense is tilted toward the outside. Sideline routes, quick outs and various forms of screens to the flats have been the primary diet. With a few exceptions, play-calling for the middle of the field has been largely checkdowns to a back leaking out over the middle, or slants. There have been the occasional crossers and curls, but overall the play calls have done little to scheme guys open over the middle, and when they do Rodgers has seemed determined to avoid them.
 
In a video breakdown of the Lions game, Kurt Warner does a good job of showing what’s going on, although he glosses over Rodgers’ inaccuracy in several cases. But it provides insight into the differences between the intent of a play and how it’s designed to work, versus what actually happened.
 
It’s very much worth a watch, but here’s the gist:
 
  1. It’s pretty clear that in many instances, Rodgers’ complaints about receivers not running the right routes have merit. Either that, or the play calls made no sense whatsoever. In one case, Rodgers goes right on a designed rollout, with a receiver lined up on the left side who is supposed to do a deep cross into an open patch on the same side where Rodgers now is. Inexplicably, the receiver jukes the cross and runs an out route to the left sideline, the opposite side of the field from his quarterback, making for an impossible throw. At that point, Rodgers has few alternatives.
  2. In another instance, which most have seen on video, Robert Tonyan curls in from the right side and then up the middle of the field and is open for a big gain if not a touchdown. Rodgers, inexplicably, throws to a covered receiver on the left sideline. Did he not see Tonyan, or just decide otherwise? Hard to say.
  3. The most intriguing thing was that when the Packers did look to throw over the middle, they were all fairly deep routes, generally about 25 yards or more. With our shaky and banged up offensive line, these take long enough to develop that Rodgers is pressured constantly. One answer worth trying would be to shorten everything by five yards. Obviously you need to clear linebackers who drop into coverage, but that’s what play action is for. But since the Packers have been running the ball less than they should, and Rodgers is in shotgun more, play action is neutered.
 
Watch the video, because what we have is a layer cake of awful:
 
— Young receivers (and worse, Sammy Watkins,) who either haven’t learned the playbook or aren’t understanding it. They also haven’t figured out inside/outside leverage.
— A quarterback who is a perfectionist who won’t even look at a receiver if he has screwed up previously.
— A quarterback who has no interest in spending extra preseason time with receivers to help them get it right. Yes, the coaching staff shares the blame here, but nothing replaces chemistry between QB and receiver.
— A receiving corps depleted by injury. As is the quarterback, and it is diminishing his accuracy.
— A quarterback who wants to take deep shots, and who seems to think low-percentage deep routes on the perimeter are safer than a shorter game over the middle. Sure, more bad things can happen in the middle of the field, but the successes will be more plentiful. I am convinced this is what Rodgers means by simplifying the offense. Go-routes up the sideline aren’t complicated. They just have insanely high variance, especially when the QB has a bad thumb on his throwing hand.
— A coach who really isn’t in charge of the offense, and can’t do much about it short of benching Rodgers (he should, but won’t).
— A front office that has gotten itself into an untenable situation with Rodgers’ contract.
 
It’s a pretty terrible recipe, with the best defense in football coming to town and a former Packers HC undoubtedly looking for some revenge.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child.  He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.

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5 points

Comments (110)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 06:34 am

Nice overview. I agree that video analysis by Kurt Warner gives some answers on the question why Packers are not successful in the passing. It is not always ACR mistake, for sure, but from that video we can see that Amari Rodgers was run 1 wrong route, Lazard 3 times and Watkins always. Tuore routes are on time and properly run.

I would also like to see many other situations where it is ACR mistake (because of injury or not), not just justifying how hard is for him to do things working. What is when everything else is properly done and his throws are not precise (like Werner showed on that long pass to Toure).

There is a lot of those kind of "execution".

3 points
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barutanseijin's picture

November 11, 2022 at 06:40 am

The link to the video doesn’t work

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BirdDogUni's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:42 am

5 points
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NickPerry's picture

November 11, 2022 at 06:47 am

"— A coach who really isn’t in charge of the offense, and can’t do much about it short of benching Rodgers (he should, but won’t)."
"— A front office that has gotten itself into an untenable situation with Rodgers’ contract."

IMO these two points by Jonathon sum up the Packers problems in 2022 and what are sure to be "Shit Sandwiches" severed up for every game in 2023 and maybe 2024. As long as Mark Murphy is in Green Bay, handcuffing Gute and making decisions which would prevent ANY GM of doing a decent job, THIS is going to be what the Green Bay Packers are for the foreseeable future.

LOL...This coming form the self proclaimed "Biggest Homer" on this site. For the entire MLF/Gute tenure I've been extremally supportive and gave each the benefit of doubt. I believe Gute could have been better had he had TOTAL CONTROL, and LaFleur better if he had a single ounce of Mike Holmgren in him. In other words, tell Rodgers the offense is to be run EXACTLY like this. Period end of discussion.

The one thing I will mention is the assistant coaches the Packers have of staff. When MLF was hired I made several comments the assistants were the who's who of who the hell are you? Now a few of them actually surprised me, especially Stenovich as the O-Line coach, Otten as the TE coach and a few others. This past offseason, when several Packers assistant's were hired away those positions were replaced by coaches who just WERN'T READY. That has had a HUGE effect on this football team. For example, is Luke Butkus ready to be an O-Line coach? Hell no!

Tom Clements came back to be the QB coach and Rodgers has never looked like 2017 or 2018 Rodgers more. Looking back now I think bringing in Clements to cosign Rodgers Bullshit was a bad hire.

8 points
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egbertsouse's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:15 am

I figured Clements was brought in for the purpose of kissing Rodger’s ass and not to do any real coaching. This permits Diva to go on McTankTop’s show and tell everyone that he doesn’t suck because Clements gave him an A.

6 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:22 am

Seems most of the coaching hires were done on the buddy system. Not what you know but "who" (Nicks who-who too funny) you know. That's been the way the whole organization has been run.

8 points
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Oppy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:26 am

That's the entire NFL.

And, honestly, that's the business world at large.

6 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:58 am

Thats how most hires happen in the NFL. This league is all about relationships.

1 points
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Oppy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:25 am

I was vocally against the hiring of Tom Clements because of what transpired during the 2016 season.

Tom Clements is a Rodgers enabler. When Clements was given play calling duties in 2015, it didn't take long before Rodgers went completely off the rails culminating in a stretch of games in 2016 where Rodgers was freelancing so much and stalling the offense that MM took back play calling duties from Clements.. Then he took away Rodgers' ability to call his own plays at the LOS... then he took away Rodgers ability to even change routes or the way guys lined up for a game.

The offense got back into shape and MM gave Rodgers back his control within a week or two, but the message was clearly made.

Also, Clements' contract expired after that season and the Packers did not make an attempt to renew it.

Clements was a major part of the mechanism that let Rodgers go off the rails back then, and I'm guessing he's a big part of the reason now- considering Rodgers just told us a week or two ago that according to Clements, he had his finest game of the year.

10 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:06 am

Oppy, but he had the finest game of the year. It was not F game. It was E- game. But still his finest one of the year.

Also, I was hoping that Tom Clements (who worked with Mike McCarthy at his QB school) was brought to help Jordan Love and Etling more than he come back to help ACR. BTW, why ACR need any help. He is the smartest guy in the world and he needs noone to tell him anything about football.

What I agree, Tom Clements is, maybe, good QB coach, but he failed as OC during Mike McCarthy era.

3 points
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Guam's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:59 am

Thanks Oppy! Good review of some history I had forgotten and great insight into the Clements re-hire. Good work!!!

1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:30 am

I would say that while Gutey maybe couldn’t make some moves, he still deserves to go. He has whiffed on so many draft picks over the past couple of years - over the past 4 years, I can name only 3 star players he’s drafted- Gary, Jenkins, Jaire. Here are some of his whiffs: Josh Myers over Creed Humphrey, Christian Watson over George Pickens, Quay Walker over Devin Lloyd, Jordan Love over Tee Higgins (at the time), Jace Sternberger over Terry McLaurin, Darnell Savage over Sean Murphy Bunting, the list goes on and on.

When your philosophy is draft and develop, (which I don’t disagree with as a primary method), you’d better be able to draft well. Get someone better, maybe someone from the Seahawks’ organization. They always draft relatively well.

Also if MLF can’t have the guts to stand up to Rodgers he shouldn’t be a HC. I want the Broncos DC, Ejiro Evero, to be hired. It’s time someone gave him a chance, and he has been nothing short of masterful in Denver.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:44 am

I tend to lean the other way on Gute. I think all GMs whiff, but that overall he has done ok. The problem is that he very clearly built for one thing: the post Rodgers era, at the same time as Ball ran the cap, independently of Gute. Looked at in that light last December, this roster and even the cap aren’t illogical.

We had just extended the last dance a year, at some future cost, but the pieces were there to start to develop behind a cheap young QB. Both the roster and cap were pretty much set in stone, but we had a little wiggle left. Then we inexplicably ignored that and signed an extension that ate the wiggle and grafted Rodgers back on with no weapons at WR or TE.

I simply don’t think that’s Gute’s doing. If I did I’d be leading the charge to run him out of town. For that matter I don’t think Ball would have agreed the terms of the extension either. Both seem to me to have been cowed into doing so my Murphy, supported by a mystifyingly eager LaFleur. I personally think LaFleur’s vocal echoing of Murphy in these circumstances tells us much about his own estimation of his value and perhaps why Murphy hired him.

So do I fire Gute and Ball for caving? I might think they ought to have resigned, but no. I judge them on what I think that they had intended and I don’t find that illogical. In the end, the root is Murphy flying in the face of reality. Ball and Gute may go down with him for making that happen, they may perhaps deserve to, but they aren’t the problem and them going will not resolve the causes.

4 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

November 12, 2022 at 08:52 am

The Seahawks had two really good drafts that set them up for two SB runs but have had some real doozies over the last few years. They haven't done a good job of replacing top talent lost off that defense and constant trading out of the 1st round means you have to hit with those extra picks you accumulate. I thought 2020 was a good year to trade out of the 1st round and pick up some extra picks but most years you need to try and hit on that 2nd tier of players in the 1st.

1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 12, 2022 at 04:07 pm

Packy,
I respectfully hear you but at same time I think Gutey is pretty good but handcuffed by Murphy. In addition to the draft choices where he has been drafting towards the end of the rounds think about the FA's he has brought in. Without going into detail he took a losing team in 2018 & 2019 and immediately had them 13 & 3 for three years running as one of the top teams in the league. Lastly, the one high draft choice in round 1 he had and he took Gary, which has turned out to be pretty damn good!

I will share I did want Pickens over Watson. I also wanted that 2nd round selection given up for Watson. Never made any sense particularly with the Packers allegedly all in with Rodgers. Confusing! I had wanted a highly rated Edge rusher, or another WR in round 2. Anyone think we could use one of them now?

0 points
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egbertsouse's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:18 am

Maybe if they ran the offense they learned in the off-season instead of Rodger’s hero ball hybrid, everyone would know the routes.

8 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:59 am

Yes. This is what I've been saying.

0 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:09 am

But ACR (C is not for Charles) do not need to be at OTAs or at organized teams activity. TC is enough for him. God forbidden to play preseason games. It is stupid games that are useful for nothing.

-3 points
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Fubared's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:12 am

What off season are you talking? Vets never played in pre season and Rodgers didnt show for ota's to meet and greet his new receiving core. He was pissed that Adams was gone

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:57 am

Those routes criticisms are fundamentals. Very basic. You don’t run an out route to the side away from the QB roll out in any O, for example. In any O, you don’t do what was being pointed out. What the heck do Vrabel and Co. teach?

I saw that video as a stinging indictment of basic coaching of fundamentals. I’d have cut Watkins this week after seeing that. I’d be replacing my WR coach, but also asking what Lazard had been taught by his predecessors. Overall I take away a message if a team with a totally bankrupt coaching regime.

8 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 04:48 pm

Lazard cannot drop the In route that would result in a 1st down to move the chains on the first series of, seemingly, every Game. Just kills the tempo from the get-go. The Big Mo.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

November 12, 2022 at 08:54 am

I call BS on that. He might be checking out of the called play but he's not asking them to run something he just drew up on the field.

Get a grip.

2 points
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Johnblood27's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:36 am

Any heartfelt and meaningful comment i could post here would just be piling on at this point...

This is me saying (almost) nothing...

6 points
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stockholder's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:43 am

This Offense "WAS" in a Rebuild. And it's still ongoing with WRs problems. The only thing you see; is ACR acting like Randall. And hope Gutey trades anybody to solve problems. Thats what leaves a lot to be desired. Kizer for Randall.? I get we got the best out of the Adams deal. (PICKS) But Getting rid of Adams, And the rebuilding of the Wrs. Hurt ACR the most. Yes- he got their money. But the way people are in denial of it. He just can't escape the reality of it. And everyone wants to point at his age as the reason. Also The Love poison. So why make the Rebuild Worse? Because if a MVP can't get this team back to winning. No coach, inexperienced QB will either.
The tumbling of the packers goes beyond Rodgers. Get this through your heads. HE IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
Defense , Defense, Defense! Is the problem. DID we not all think that they would be tough as Nails, and get Rodgers the Ball?
Rodgers may not look like the MVP. But this Defense is the reason the team has fallen off the cliff. You can't expect miracles when you're rebuilding an offense. And everyone does!
Getting rid of Savage; will put this team back. Find a place for him. He's not getting injured like King. And if your edge players keep going down. The only solution is going back to the 4-3-4. To much time has been wasted on the 3-4-4. It might of had it's day. But if you make the defense more versatile. You might just find a way to win. While the offense rebuilds.

-7 points
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Oppy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:22 am

The Packers didn't 'get rid' of Adams; Adams 'got rid' of the Packers.

6 points
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stockholder's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:57 am

Can't argue that. Good point. Still -

1 points
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Oppy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:30 am

"Defense, Defense, Defense! is the problem."

Are you fucking serious? What kind of Ayahuasca trip are you on? You are absolutely delusional.

The Packers are averaging 17.1 points per game on offense. 27th in the league. Those are facts.

Also.. Rodgers is the poison, not Love. That's subjective, but you know what? I'm right.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:00 am

I have no doubt in my mind when I make the statement that Jordan Love is in no way responsible for the performance of the team this year.

4 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 04:58 pm

A lot of high picks and money going on the defense's side of the ball to get the stops and turnovers, not scratch their asses while the opponents pounds out 8 min drives, as they whiff on tackles, seem clueless in coverage and Employ Barry. The big money goes to the QB in the NFL. Look around the League.

1 points
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Oppy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:25 pm

The defense is slightly better than average. The offense is among the worst in the league.

Take money out of it, the offense is the problem in 2022. Plain and simple.
Put money into it, and Rodgers is the biggest under performer on the team.

Period.

-1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

November 12, 2022 at 09:01 am

By DVOA the defense is not good. If they were top 15 against the run it would be a top 5 defense but instead they get repeatedly gashed. They needed to be at least top 10 to win a few games and they definitely are not. We knew the offense was going to struggle early.

2 points
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Oppy's picture

November 12, 2022 at 11:33 am

17.1 points per game scored and you're pointing at the defense.

Only thing that matters at the end of the day is points allowed and points scored. Packers D: slightly above league average, Packers O: bottom 5 in the league.

0 points
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jurp's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:28 am

Defense is the problem? SMH. The Packers defense held Detroit to 15 points while the offense managed only 9 points against the worst defense in the league. Once again, you embarrass yourself with your posts.

The problem is not entirely AR and runs much deeper, but AR is certainly part of the reason for the offense's collapse, as other posters here have abundantly shown.

3 points
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stockholder's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:55 am

They had one great hold. They got ACR the ball. I'll give them that only. Then you saw failure. Failure with a new WR. The Offense blows up in the red Zone. Which is typical of a rebuilding team.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 05:13 pm

No TEs.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 05:01 pm

Hard to argue with the Puritans @ The Witch Trials...

1 points
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Oppy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:26 pm

Tell me more about how the offense isn't turning little boys into toads.

You are out of your damn mind arguing that the offense isn't the problem.

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2022 at 12:00 pm

Where did you did up that tidbit? I have stated from the draft to bring in OTs with a high pick plus another and stabilize the O line which has the synchronicity of a cowboy ballet. Tom is showing his stuff. It all starts with the big boys and Rodgers has mediocre WRs at the moment and Greenhorns. His accuracy is hit and miss, we know that. Is it his thumb or shoulder issues flaring up? They played smash mouth vs the Bills, then pull A Jones from the game plan against Detroit. It is apparent the offense is a joke, but the blog was pushing defense to put them over the top while the All-Pro WR moves to Vegas. Bhak and Jenkins should have been given more time to heal and the RT was the weakness from day one.

2 points
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beautiful_mystery's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:29 am

#12's throws are precise, calculated, on time, on target...when throwing teammates under the bus.

6 points
10
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coolhand's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:00 pm

After watching the Warner video, I am inclined to side more with Rodgers at this point. The receivers run the wrong routes, fall down, can't get separation, drop balls. Where is the coaching? These guys are in the NFL and can't understand such simple concepts? Where Rodgers gets blame is in thinking these new guys will get all of his adjustments at the LOS. He has to understand that won't happen overnight. And some like Watkins, might never get any at all.

3 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 02:34 pm

You saw on that video very few plays. Not one quarter, by number of shawn plays it was somthing like 1 to 1 and half posesion. And he clearly stated that Toure run correct route, get behind D, but ball was underthrown (Warner said slightly, but it was yard short).

How you explains that 3 interception, 2 in the red zone? Who is guilty for those 3 interception? Those INT are on ACR 100%. Those interceptions were not shown in that video. Neither the reason why they happened. Warner warned that WR should not run to the side of the field and put Lazard catch as example. But 2 games ago Lazard did what Warner suggested - take turn to the centar of the field and ACR threw the ball to the side line. Lazard was pissed of heavily and was gesticulete to the ACR in meaning "what are you doing man?"

How explains that?

In the Warner video I counted 1 wrong route from Amari Rodgers. 3 from Lazard and all others by Watkins. Who are the rookie amongst them?

Only rookie who plaxed that game was doing right, also mention by Warner.

3 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 02:34 pm

You saw on that video very few plays. Not one quarter, by number of shawn plays it was somthing like 1 to 1 and half posesion. And he clearly stated that Toure run correct route, get behind D, but ball was underthrown (Warner said slightly, but it was yard short).

How you explains that 3 interception, 2 in the red zone? Who is guilty for those 3 interception? Those INT are on ACR 100%. Those interceptions were not shown in that video. Neither the reason why they happened. Warner warned that WR should not run to the side of the field and put Lazard catch as example. But 2 games ago Lazard did what Warner suggested - take turn to the centar of the field and ACR threw the ball to the side line. Lazard was pissed of heavily and was gesticulete to the ACR in meaning "what are you doing man?"

How explains that?

In the Warner video I counted 1 wrong route from Amari Rodgers. 3 from Lazard and all others by Watkins. Who are the rookie amongst them?

Only rookie who plaxed that game was doing right, also mention by Warner.

1 points
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barutanseijin's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:32 am

Looks like a bad team: a poorly coached collection of lesser and aging or injured talents.

5 points
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Since'61's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:43 am

I'm calling timeout today to offer my thoughts and appreciation to all of our veterans from each conflict throughout the USA's history.

And especially to all those who are currently serving our nation and protecting our freedom both here in the US and overseas. Stay safe and stay strong.

We are with you always. Thanks, Since '61

10 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:08 am

Dito, Since '61. I'm officially in trouble I realize, because I was reminded yesterday to put up the flag or I'd forget. Will put it up directly. Still be in trouble.

Thanks again to all vets and active service members. I won't forget you!

3 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:14 am

You are granted one TO, Since. One of 30 sec. ;-) We need you...

1 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:25 am

Thank you, my fellow Vet. Kind of puts the game of football in perspective of what's truly important. Without Vets...particularly combat vets...we wouldn't have the freedom of bitching about a damn football game. Semper Fi

1 points
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Since'61's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:54 am

Exactly correct 13Times! Without the Vets who knows what the US and the world would be like. Enjoy the day! It’s well earned. Stay safe. Thanks, Since ‘61

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 05:21 pm

Roger that sentiment '61. Just spent the day witnessing the Dedication Ceremony of the Native American Veterans Memorial. The first defenders of this Land

3 points
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beautiful_mystery's picture

November 12, 2022 at 10:54 am

Thank you for the important reminder jbj! Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. But, as I get older...I am reflective and sad at the price the native Indians paid. I only assume Thanksgiving is a far different feeling for them...

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 12, 2022 at 12:03 pm

Those who stay endure.

1 points
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DaleDanTony's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:43 am

I've never seen a fanbase be this quick to wave the white flag and start pointing the finger. I don't want to see any of you negative nancy's in here after we beat Dallas Sunday.

0 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:10 am

Just win one!

1 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:12 am

I haven't seen you for all those successful years. Now you want to give us lessons?

Wait a minute! ACR is it you?

-3 points
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DaleDanTony's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:33 am

Why would you need to see me during all of the "succesful years?" I could understand your logic if I was in here commenting while everything was going great and disappeared when things went bad, but it's actually quite opposite right now isn't it? Just tired of seeing these knee-jerk reactions after a poor start barely halfway through a season. Let's take it one game at a time and see how this thing plays out.

1 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:47 am

After the Boys and Titans, we'll be eliminated from playoff contention. These aren't knee jerk reactions. It is the culmination of a great many terrible decisions by the FO and terrible coaching on many different levels.

Someone with the authority, (the board?) needs to buy a new broom and start sweeping, yesterday.

3 points
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DaleDanTony's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:56 am

See, that's my whole point. We haven't played Boys or the Titans yet. If you want to go ahead and count those as losses by all means go ahead, I'm not. They play the games for a reason.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:04 am

These games are somehow more meaningful than the prior ones?

1 points
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DaleDanTony's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:10 am

Who said that? I simply implied that i'm going to watch, I don't like our chances to win either game but i'm also not just going to simply write them off as losses before they are even played.

1 points
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Rarescope's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:09 am

Wow, you must have really been gone a long time. Jumping to conclusions, pointing fingers and general negativity are why 85% of the people are here (those of you actually contributing to an interesting discussion know who you are, and I appreciate you). I'm surprised you haven't gotten 1000 downvotes yet for daring to suggest another approach. Last guy that did that was run out of town with pitchforks and torches.

2 points
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DaleDanTony's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:13 am

It's crazy isn't it? I get on here showing the slightest bit of optimism and I get feedback like i'm making these comments on a Vikings or Bears forum.

1 points
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barutanseijin's picture

November 11, 2022 at 03:04 pm

I see you two are here to whine about being in the minority. What a couple of crybabies.

-1 points
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DaleDanTony's picture

November 14, 2022 at 08:53 am

I think we were suggesting that maybe everyone else should stop being crybabies but what do I know.

0 points
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MainePackFan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 03:48 pm

Stick with it Dale. You won't get any support from the "regulars" but I agree with much of what you say. Let them play the game. GPG!!!

-1 points
1
2
MainePackFan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 05:58 pm

Well said Rarescope.

-2 points
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2
DaleDanTony's picture

November 14, 2022 at 08:49 am

Now do you understand why I said they play the games for a reason?

0 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 12, 2022 at 04:12 pm

DDT,
I salute your post!

However, you must not be familiar with MN Viking fans. Holy Hanna! :)

1 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:44 am

The frustration in Warner's voice reflects a hurricane of horrible wrapped in a waterspout of woe inside a cyclone of suffering. Pervasive sloppiness and inattention to basic fundamentals reflects a culture of mediocrity. It ain't all on 12, but he's sure not helping.

10 points
11
1
Fubared's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:10 am

Note, and Warner wouldnt say this but there is a lack of intellegence on the receivers part. You job, make moves to shed the receiver and go where they aint. Sammy Watkins, what a find.

3 points
4
1
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:26 am

The only legitimate way to determine if Aaron is falling off would be to watch him play on a team that we know is well-coached, has a strong o-line and legitimate, reliable receivers.
I think he would return to 85%-90% of his pre-2022 self on the Dolphins, Chiefs, Bills, 49ers, Titan's types of teams.

-6 points
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7
jurp's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:32 am

I think we are in agreement that we'd both rather see AR on any of the teams you've listed than on the Packers. I actually think AR on the 49ers would be an interesting combination.

3 points
4
1
barutanseijin's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:50 pm

I suspect that he is 85-90% of his former self already, but that’s enough to expose all the flaws with this team.

2 points
2
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Oppy's picture

November 12, 2022 at 01:48 am

Or, or, or...
Check this out..

We bench Rodgers- or at least start splitting time- and start playing Jordan Love, who runs the offense as designed. We need to assess Love in real game situations over a number of games before making a decision on his 5th year option anyways.

It would help diagnose 3 different issues: 1) What we have in Love 2) What does LeFleur's actual offense look like 3) What has Rodgers' Help/Harm ratio been.

3 points
3
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 12, 2022 at 04:14 pm

Maybe also evaluate how the offense would work with Love actually throwing down the middle of the field when a player is open?

1 points
1
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:31 am

Interesting article and I enjoyed the read.
Also today is Veterans day and I'll take my hat off to all the guys here who served our country as soldiers. I have the greatest respect for every single one of you and thank you from the bottom of my heart. It's because of guys like you who risked your butt and sacrificed a great deal that all the rest of us can sit down on a day like this at our computers and chat about our favorite football team.

3 points
3
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beautiful_mystery's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:49 am

Very true F-Driver! To the gals, guys and service animals...I do appreciate you and THANK YOU!

1 points
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fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:02 am

Green Bay is community-owned. It lacks an owner who would naturally hold coaches and players accountable.
The best owners hire the very best coaches and allow them autonomy, which is what a great coach will demand.
However, it is understood that coach will be required to produce or he will likely be fired. (Neither is true in GB)

What I see in GB is a man (MM) who has upset this necessary balance for a team and coaches to thrive. It is, IMO, more insidious than what is being played out on the field. It is a reflection, though.

It is more important to him to retain his power and over-step and blur boundaries between himself, his GM , coaches and the board.
The board should be comprised of neutral, ethical, competent individuals who operate independently and are not reliant on the whims and favors of someone like MM.

I am a Warriors fan. They are struggling right now with a number of things, including an aging Klay T who has not returned to his
pre-injury self, a big man, Wiseman, who is just not 'getting it', the loss of a tremendous defensive player, GP-2 and other role players. However, I don't doubt that the GM, Bob Myers, and the owner, Lacob, are not agile, objective and doing everything possible to
'right the ship'. Most of the time, anyway. They mishandled the Draymond G issue, though. But, 90% of the time, it's good.

I don't feel that confidence in the GB power structure.

I am concerned that the good people of GB do not appreciate the level of damage his behavior (and the complicit board) is causing
the team.

The lay leaders of the GB community are sorely needed to take a hard look @ this weakened structure which is allowing weak coaches to remain, players to 'regress' from poor coaching, a GM who is mediocre @ best. Retention of his own 'power' is MM's real goal

This is a sick system.It is imperative that the 'shareholders' uproot the entire board, MM and his minions and rebuild a strong system with iron-clad, unimpeachable checks and balances.

The fact that GB was a perennial winner has masked the MM problem.

0 points
5
5
Fubared's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:08 am

People in charge rarely point fingers at themselves or they get fired.
LeFluers answer is to shrug his shoulders as in hey this aint my fault.
Gutt is being protected by Lefleur and Murphy when he should be taken to the woodshed for his draft picks.
: Wyatt, Watson, Stokes. Those were blue chip position picks and we got nothing from them.

-6 points
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jurp's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:26 pm

WAAAAAAY too early to complain about Wyatt or Watson. I remember the hate that the Gary pick caused for three years, plus the "Dropvantae" years as well (different GM, I know). Not a lot of sure-fire day one (or even season one) starters in the draft.

3 points
3
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Oppy's picture

November 12, 2022 at 07:48 am

Fangirl, thank you for fully illustrating you don't know a god damn thing about how Packers organization operates or how its shareholding works.

1 points
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Fubared's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:05 am

My observations for what they are worth:
- receivers seem to lack speed, and agility first off They arent fooling anyone on their route running? Not even the lions whose pass d is horrid
- Like Warner, is it lack of practice? Crummy route diagrams? Recrs who cant learn the playbook?
- Watkins looks like he just arrived on the team and was told to wing it
- Lazard of all people looks confused. He looks back a lot and wants to adjust his route often instead of sticking to the script. How the hell does he expect Rodgers to make some of those throws based on where he has run too?
- I agree that for Rodgers this is chaos. I do feel for him unless its due to his lack of practice, no ota and pre season development. Maybe he has caused this confusion???????

4 points
4
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jurp's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:27 pm

The Lazard thing is puzzling. Is he trying to "read AR's mind" like Adams seemingly could do rather than just run the route he's supposed to? Is he feeling additional pressure because he's the #1 now? Perplexing.

4 points
4
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:09 am

Yes. It’s broken. It’s broken to a degree which just screams stop!

It’s time to dismantle. It’s time to accept that this team made decisions indefensible by logic, is presumably too convinced of its own hype and that it’s not one person but the whole rotten castle.

It’s time to clear out off the field. It’s time to part ways with Rodgers because the team has put itself in a position where it can’t win with him and couldn’t even if he was in his pomp, and he’s not (and wasn’t last year).

It’s time to stop being nice and finding excuses for LaFleur and his coaches and tolerating the guy who hired him and made himself exactly the self appointed guru Harlen knew had to be prevented.

It’s time to face reality and be brutal. Strip this team and FO and restart. No band aids will fix us until we do. On field, we will have a lag now, as we will witness the cap price for real, and the leadership deficit until those most culpable are expunged. With what Murphy did to the structure, there’s no one to do that and the Board that permitted it can’t be relied upon at all.

Entitled Town must return to being Title Town. To get there needs a ruthless and wide ranging cleanse. Yet that will be the least prolonged and least painful alternative. I’m not all that optimistic that there’s anyone capable if leading that or even finding someone to do that, but public opinion turning is the best hope of action.

That means no more Murphy, no more LaFleur. A President not involved in football, a board clear out and a new, true President, GM and executive Board. In fact it means we need a new Harlen: a man willing and visionary enough to rescue us from a similar morass in and off the field. It means we are institutionally back in the futile times before that and that our momentum will keep us there unless we get that lucky again.

Brutal but true.

6 points
8
2
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:34 am

Sometimes, shedding denial and accepting the brutal truth is the the most difficult part of the equation.

Our family visited Green Bay this summer and were impressed with the professionalism, cleanliness and beauty of Lambeau and its surroundings.

The good people of GB surely have impeccable and ethical leaders who could come together and lead the Packers back to their prominence.

People need to start talking, organizing, etc. It can be exciting and energizing to tear down a corrupt structure and rebuild.

2 points
3
1
Rarescope's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:18 am

My dad and I did a Lambeau tour for the first time this summer too - I'd been there once before just to walk around the atrium. We both had a great time and learned a lot about what they have done with the facility to make it a draw on the what... 357 days of the year it's not being used to play football? We also learned about how the team almost went bankrupt in I think the late 90's or early 00's. I've said it here before but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were keeping ARod around for the prestige (and revenue) having a future HOF QB on the roster brings to the organization as a whole. Yes, the Pack have a storied history but I'm not sure a lot of young folks these days know about that. Heck I talk to co-workers who are football fans that don't even know that the Packers are technically publicly owned.

3 points
3
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:48 am

Who hired Sherman? And then, astoundingly, doubled down and gave him GM duties as well?

No one is immune to mistakes.

2 points
3
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:11 am

Mistakes happen but the measure of a leader is not the mistakes but what they do about them.

1 points
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fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:57 am

General Sherman??-LOL

-2 points
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2
13TimeChamps's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:31 pm

Mike Sherman. A horribly unqualified general manager of the Packers in the early 2,000's.

One of his more memorable draft picks was when he TRADED UP in the 3rd round for a PUNTER who never even made the active roster. I wish I was making that up.

3 points
3
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:25 pm

Yes, he was a bafflingly bad GM

1 points
1
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jurp's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:30 pm

The Bill O'Brien of his times...

1 points
1
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 06:04 pm

Andy Reid patiently waited and was rebuffed by Wolf's decision to bring on Ray Rhodes. That was the start of the poison pill. Never liked the idea of keeping things In-house.

0 points
0
0
Guam's picture

November 11, 2022 at 03:06 pm

I have been onboard with terminating Murphy for some time now as well as a shake up of the Board that let him implement this goofy reporting structure and allowed his direct involvement in football operations. An egregious error and Harlan is spinning in his grave.

I have finally come around to the notion that LaFleur (and his staff) needs to go. I have long believed that this is not LaFleur's offense and Rodgers is to be blamed for the current offensive mess. However, LaFleur's total lack of leadership and his poor coaching hires have convinced me he needs to follow Rodgers out the door. Addition by subtraction in 2023 - Murphy, LaFleur (and staff), and Rodgers should be out - and the team will be better for it.

4 points
4
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 11, 2022 at 03:50 pm

"An egregious error and Harlan is spinning in his grave."

Not sure why he would be spinning in his or anyone else's grave, as he is still quite alive at 86 years of age.

3 points
3
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LeotisHarris's picture

November 11, 2022 at 10:01 pm

I appreciate your insights and persistence, CW. What's Bob McGinn saying about our beloved Packers these days?

3 points
3
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Todd's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:32 am

With the discussion about poor coaching and Rodgers' drop in performance, the question needs to be asked where Rodgers' hand-picked QB coach fits into this?

3 points
3
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fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:06 pm

Rodgers needs to go, for the team's sake and his sake.

Removing him will allow GB fans to see that 'nothing got better'.

MLF won't instantly become a dynamic coach
Joe Barry won't miraculously show defensive competence
The Defense won't start blocking/tackling
Gutey won't be held accountable for poor drafting and 'cheaping out' on FA's
Special Teams won't become functional
The o-line won't get better-Bahk will never return to his former self
The receivers will remain mediocre, aging, injury-prone.

MM will be allowed to continue his BS..

It seems fans want to tinker around the edges and expect a major turn-around.

-3 points
2
5
stockholder's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:30 pm

Spoken like a True Vikings Fan. Didn't you want Rodgers on another team for his career? And Now for the teams sake? Your hate just came to the surface.

1 points
3
2
jurp's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:36 pm

Uh, you haven't been comprehending Fangirl's posts, have you? Like you, she's a Rodgers fan, but one who'd like to see him leave so that he can essentially recoup the damage to his reputation that this cluster of a season has caused. This post also is a "See? You wanted Rodgers gone and NOTHING HAS GOTTEN BETTER!" So, an FU to the Rodgers haters. Nothing wrong with that kind of post at all, IMO. Fangirl could be right (in which case I'm sure we'd hear about it) or wrong, in which case we might or might not. The post ignores the apparent fact that Murphy is the root cause of this lost season (and, potentially, lost decade). Fangirl is on board with this, but doesn't reference it in this post.

if Fangirl were a Vikings fan, then they'd be going on about a league conspiracy to derail the Packers' season by never calling meaningful penalties in their favor and by calling drive-killing penalties on the Packers. And that this conspiracy is actually a League-sanctioned attempt to shut Rodgers up and/or force him to retire. Fangirl is NOT a Vikings fan...

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 05:53 pm

I didn’t want to see Favre on another team, but it was the right thing to do. Sometimes fairytale endings are more Grimm than grin.

0 points
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Oppy's picture

November 12, 2022 at 07:50 am

Where does Tom Clements fit?
Neatly in Rodgers' pocket.

2 points
2
0
jyros's picture

November 11, 2022 at 02:19 pm

Very nice breakdown by Kurt Warner. In addition to what is exposed in the video, consider all of the changes with the coaching staff on the offensive (sic) side. It is clearly a combined effort of mediocrity. And…. Watkins is truly Bad! He is hesitant, can’t get off of a press, can’t run a proper route, that stutter step is a momentum killer and he can’t catch a ball anymore.

4 points
4
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 06:13 pm

Retaining Watkins tells me someone is placing side bets in Vegas.

0 points
0
0
PackerGravy's picture

November 11, 2022 at 02:47 pm

“The three words that best describe you are as follows, and I quote
"Stink, stank, stunk!"

1 points
1
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Leatherhead's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:12 pm

This is how things reach a critical mass.

A losing streak. Offensive ineptitude and a viral video. A national game, where you can be sure this Warner analysis is going to be talked about.

And then, the game. If Rodgers plays well and the offense rolls, that's great. If McCarthy crushes him, that'll be a different ending to this story. I mean, he throws another 3 picks and puts 9 points on the board and it's going to be uglier than the love child of Lyle Lovett and Janet Reno., it might be his last start. Irony, huh?

I'd love to believe the Hero leads the team to victory, but I'm just not seeing it in this case. I hate sad endings, and I have a bad feeling about what's to come. I'm also kind of at the point where every game that we start Rodgers is one more game we could be using to get Love ready. We're going nowhere with our current horse.

2 points
2
0
PhantomII's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:15 pm

I have yet to see our first Ballot HOF QB play improve ANY WR on this team above Practice squad scrub...except they are on the 53. Time to put down the Scotch and get some work in during practice. If they are all so clueless, maybe we should dumb things down more like he said.

2 points
2
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BirdDogUni's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:51 pm

There are only about 4 routes, I don't know how much dumber things need to get. (They can't run those 4 routes worth a damn either.

Murphy, Gutey, and MaLF have certainly shite the bed this year. Obvious coaching errors across the board. Players don't seem to want to play for these coaches. Have not heard a player compliment a position coach all year and that is rare.

I don't know what will happen, but I don't see anything but a rebuild from the top down curing our ills.

2 points
2
0
PhantomII's picture

November 12, 2022 at 06:09 am

Using a precious #1 and #3 pick for Moore and a #2 and #4 for Claypool was the missed opportunity at the deadline. We have even more issues with injuries now though. It's a lost year with QB-1 unwilling to spend the time to get these young guys in a groove. Coaching is also an issue as well as multiple coaching position swaps.

1 points
1
0
barutanseijin's picture

November 12, 2022 at 06:30 am

The Packers getting stomped by the Cowboys with Rodgers getting benched and people getting fired would probably get a chuckle from McCarthy.

0 points
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0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 12, 2022 at 04:26 pm

While not an NFL salary cap expert my understanding is this:

1. The salary cap is set at $208.2 million for 2022, this season's non-adjusted maximum for NFL teams.
2. Rodgers 2022 salary is $50+ million for 2022

Meaning Rodgers takes up nearly 1/4 of the Packers salary cap. There are no excuses! Zero...Nada! Rodgers with that salary is to left everyone's performance on the offense, particularly the WR's, TE's, and RB's. He hasn't done it and in fact is playing sub-par as one of the worse QB's statistically in the league. Does LeBron James, or a Michael Jordan ever played down regardless of their supporting cast? No! Great players lift the talent around them and Rodgers hasn't. He doesn't come to help the new WR's in OTA's and he doesn't want to play in pre-season. Rodgers should never have received that killer salary as he was never worth it let alone at 39-years old this year.

1 points
1
0