Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - It Never Hurts to Try... Out
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
The Packers held their rookie minicamp this past weekend, bringing in their draft picks and UDFAs, as well as a bevy of players on an unsigned "tryout" basis. There were fewer UDFA's than usual this season, due to the fact the Packers had more than the usual number of players under contract, thanks mainly to the success of the last few drafts. There are always some players invited to the rookie camp on a tryout basis, but it's pretty infrequent that the Packers decide to sign one to the roster. But this year is different - they actually signed three tryout players to their roster. These players did the improbable, eclipsing one hurdle to a possible NFL career, but of course, much higher hurdles await. Two were wide receivers, which, after not using a draft pick on any in last Month;s draft, got them up to the usual number of 11 receivers to carry into practices. The third player was a guard, adding to the competition on the interior line. About the three players:
WR Dimitri Stanley - If the name sounds familiar, he's the son of former Packer Walter Stanley. He had a relatively nondescript career in college, catching just 118 passes for 1379 yards and five touchdown over SIX college seasons. He's 6', 200lbs, runs a 4.52 forty with an overall RAS of 5.92. Not much to get excited about here but the Packers saw something in him over the two day camp to want to give him a further look. Like his father, he is also a punt returner. I still remember the senior Stanley returning a punt for a touchdown in the final minute of play to lead the Packers to a wild 44-40 win on Thanksgiving in 1986. I remember jumping out of my seat and going wild as my wife looked at me with wonder.
WR Julian Hicks - The 6'2", 201 pound Hicks ran a 4.53 forty with an overall RAS of 9.18. He caught 72 passes for 1,139 yards and 17 touchdown over the last two seasons for Albany. He has the size and athleticism the Packers like and the Packers likely want to look at him some more to see if there's more there than just that.
OL Lecitus Smith - the 6'3" 314 pound Smith was drafted in the sixth round by the Arizona Cardinals in 2022. He played in 10 games as a rookie and spent 2023 on a few practice squads. He's played both guard and center, a rather common Packers theme this year.
The downside to these signings are that since the Packers were already at the max roster limit, three players had to be cut to make room. Those were:
CB Anthony Johnson (not to be confused by the safety of the same name). Johnson has had two stints on the Packers' practice squad and most likely, the Packers liked what they saw from new draftee Kalen King better, so Johnson became expendable.
WR Thyrick Pitts - This was a waived/injured move. Pitts was not at the minicamp and was let go to clear a spot for one of the signed WRs.
DE Deondre Johnson - The Packers' roster is pretty full at the DE/EDGE position so this was a logical place to trim one player.
The Coordinators speak:
Stenovich - It was interesting to hear him not commit to Jordan Morgan to either tackle or guard. I've maintained all along that Morgan could end up moving to guard, but the fact that he was a first-round pick makes that less likely. He absolutely has the athleticism and feet to play tackle, but there are some technique issues to clean up, something that Stenovich also said. The main issue I've seen on tape is hand placement. It's often too wide, allowing rushers into his body. That results in being walked back to the quarterback. To be fair, he's a fighter and usually recovers enough to keep his QB clean, but the pocket is often compromised.The good news is that this is all technique that can be improved, not a physical limitation he can't overcome.
It was also interesting to hear Steno say how the offense is "night and day" ahead of where it was last year at this time. The majority of the players now have a full year in the system under their belts with Jordan Love at the helm. I don't know about you, but I am probably overexcited about the potential of this offense. As Stenovich said, "We know how good we can be, but we need to understand that no one is going to hand anything to us in this league."
Hafley - On Xavier McKinney, after praising him for the variety of things he does well, Hafley said what's made him the happiest is McKinney's attitude and seeing how hard he works and helps his teammates. I don't know what happened with the Giants but how they let him walk has all my Giant fan friends stupefied, not to mention angry.
There were multiple mentions from Hafley of "playing fast" and "shrinking the field," with the linebackers being a big part of that.
On the defensive line, "that group HAS to attack. They're not going to be a passive read and react. No, they're going to go and they're going to get off the ball." Sounds like we're finally going to get what we've wanted from a Green Bay Packers defense.
Davante Speaks: As much as he says he doesn't regret his move to the Raiders, it sure sounds like he misses the hell out of Green Bay. It's also obvious he didn't expect the early success the Packers have had without Aaron Rodgers. He's closer to family and making a ton of money, but he misses the winning. Oh, how he misses the winning.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (107)
GregC
May 08, 2024 at 06:22 am
Hafley's attitude is contagious for sure. He made an interesting point when asked if the Packers' new 230-pound linebackers are going to be challenged in stopping the run. He said that the days of the 255-pound linebacker are over, and 230 pounds is plenty big enough. I checked out the depth charts of some of the top defenses in the league, and here are the weights of either the two ILBS (in a 3-4 defense) or the three LBs (in a 4-3 defense). First here is what the Packers would have if the starters are Edgerrin Cooper, Quay Walker, and Tyron Hopper:
Green Bay Packers: 229, 238, 231
And here are the weights of the linebackers in the top five defenses from last season:
Baltimore Ravens: 236, 238
Kansas City Chiefs: 234, 237, 250
San Francisco 49ers: 230, 230, 232
Buffalo Bills: 223, 224, 216
Dallas Cowboys: 240, 232, 235
So the weight of the Packers linebackers is about average compared to those others. Maybe opposing teams aren't going to be running it up the gut on us as I feared.
TKWorldWide
May 08, 2024 at 07:29 am
Stopping the run is a team function anyway, and the D-linemen will play a big part. After that, GB has to SHOW that they can consistently stuff the run, inside and outside, regardless of the sizes of the players involved.
With the linemen one-gapping and attacking, it seems reasonable to me to expect more TFL’s, but also a (hopefully) few times they get gashed. That’s where a swarming, fast, fly to the ball crew comes in. I can’t wait to see it all happen!
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 08:44 am
One player often cited as a potential loser in the system change is Slaton. The argument is he’s a big run stuffer. In fact I see him as being a potential big winner.
Despite his size, he’s being playing in a system which negates his biggest attribute. I think his athletic fit in a Hafley system where the DL are there to penetrate has been largely entirely missed. I think it’s one reason the Packers are less worried at DT than many here.
Here’s two sets of scores. One is Slaton’s @ 330, the other Kenny Clark’s @ 314. Which is which?
10 yard split. 1.68 seconds
Broad. 9.01’
Vertical. 29”
10 yard split. 1.72 seconds
Broad. 8.06’
Vertical. 28.5”
When he got here, Slaton’s struggles were not with penetration but with clogging and holding ground, as Barry required, and the run. He has improved gradually in those areas, admittedly: he is no longer a one (unused) trick pony, but his trick may now be exactly what is asked if him for the first time. Holding and clogging has never been the forte his size immediately leads people to assume.
He was seldom allowed to penetrate instinctively under Barry. His role was primarily to hold ground and give the LBs and safeties time to diagnose and react. While he’s not got a great ability to change of direction, he’s athletically freakishly gifted in terms of getting into the back field and into the QB’s face or hand off.
He played a fair amount of DE in college, despite weighing 350 at one point. He was raw, there were questions about effort and 350 was too heavy. He apparently reported to the Packers at 326. However, one thing he isn’t is ill suited to a Hafley style D. In fact quite the opposite. Slaton, whose figures are on top above, is just as good a fit as Clark, maybe better, and might really be a big winner.
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 09:05 am
Slaton and Clark have identical 8.08 RAS. Had Slaton's agility scores been higher he would have had a higher RAS. If we are lucky the Hafley D will help him out as well.
https://ras.football/ras-compare/?&p1=18408&p2=12757&pos=
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 09:55 am
Hafley had praise for Slaton's play...his attitude and effort too.
He doesn't have the strength and balance of Clark (the Championship HS wrestler), but he is talented & athletic for a big man. And he has what Hafley demands...winning attitude and high effort.
Slaton is going to be in the DL rotation with Kenny, Wyatt, Brooks. Wooden may be in both rotations at DT and DE.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 10:47 am
Wooden won't be playing DE, he said he's bulked up to 290 lbs.
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 11:14 am
Depends if he lost any appreciable speed or quickness with the weight gain. I read his weight increase was good "weight building" weight.
He is similar to Preston in size, athleticism, strength, quickness. I agree he has more work available at DT.
Hafley did say he's going to move the DL around to exploit match ups.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:42 am
I think it's more likely he moves LVN inside occasionally than moves Wooden outside.
Walker played some Edge at Georgia and half of Cooper's 8 sacks last year came at Edge. Hafley said he wants both of them getting chances to rush off the edge. Whether that means at Edge or around the edge with the DE crashing down is unknown at this point.
Oppy
May 08, 2024 at 05:22 pm
Not too long ago your typical every-down 4-3 DE was prototyped at about 290lbs, and it was only the 'pass rush specialist' DE's that were weighing in much lower.
That said, I have no idea what to expect from Halfey's 4 down linemen fronts. Obviously, they won't be squandering the 3-4 OLB horses like Gary, he'll be on the field, often at DE I would suspect. But bigger bodies spelling the pass rush guys on early downs or in goaline / short yardage / obvious run situations could certainly see the bigger guys getting plenty of time at DE as well.
GregC
May 08, 2024 at 01:31 pm
I remember Slaton making a few splashy plays in his first couple years. Not so much last year, but as you note, he was being asked to eat up blockers. I think Slaton is a quality rotational DT who is underrated by a lot of fans. It would be good to see him having more opportunities to get into the backfield and make plays.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:58 am
I really don't want to see the Chiefs win a 3rd straight title but have to give them credit for their drafts lately. Getting Leo Chenal late in the 3rd round was a nice pick. He's played well in both SBs and is athletic enough to stay on the field at 250 lbs.
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 12:10 pm
At 250lbs Chenal's 40 time was only 0.01 seconds slower than Walker, however, his 10 yard split was 0.09 second faster. Chenal is one heck of an athlete and I really wanted the Packers to draft him.
WestCoastPackerBacker
May 08, 2024 at 02:32 pm
Well their talented rookie WR from last year that almost had 1000 yards receiving is probably not going to see he field for a majority of the games this season due to felony charges for drag racing and a new incident yesterday. He's alleged to have assaulted a photographer at a night club. And they had an undrafted WR who was charged with domestic assault and he missed a bunch of time last season.
So they have done some things well in the draft, but I'm sure glad GB has Reed and not Rice!
Cheezehead72
May 08, 2024 at 06:37 am
Once again I was not invited to the tryouts. Well there is always next year.
4thand1
May 08, 2024 at 06:47 am
Willie Mays Hays
dobber
May 08, 2024 at 07:29 am
I been cut already?
Cheezehead72
May 08, 2024 at 08:30 am
The inspiration was from Ricky Henderson
TKWorldWide
May 08, 2024 at 07:30 am
Keep on saying your prayers and taking your vitamins, brother!
Cheezehead72
May 08, 2024 at 08:32 am
Prayers might help but vitamins only help if I get an invitation. I cannot even get the invitation. It is much like getting season tickets to the Packers games.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 10:49 am
Vitamins make your pee a prettier color. Bonus!
dblbogey
May 08, 2024 at 10:12 am
Nor was I. Possibly because at 72, my RAS is pretty bad.
TKWorldWide
May 08, 2024 at 11:18 am
Never say never, brother!
T7Steve
May 08, 2024 at 06:57 am
If Mogan can adjust and take the starting spot at left tackle, that would be outstanding. That would improve our depth immediately and create more competition across the whole front giving them more options for upgrades everywhere.
The line was playing extremely well at the end of last season and in the playoffs. Wouldn't it be exciting to greatly improve on that.
This is a "must" for taking the next step. No more experimenting through half the season trying to find the best five. Actually, the best seven. Like last season, you never know when an injury will happen. Prepare for what can happen, not what you think will happen.
mrtundra
May 08, 2024 at 07:13 am
I think Morgan will end up at Guard, as well. Walker played really well for us last season, especially in the last half of the season. Morgan would have to beat him out of the LT job. If Morgan does get the LT job, does Walker move to RT? Can Walker play RT? That would also move Tom to C. We want Tom on that OL, somewhere. Maybe they move Elgton to C and put Morgan at LG and leave Walker at LT. Then, the only spot they need to look at is RG. Rhyan needs to step up, a bit, to solidify that spot.
TKWorldWide
May 08, 2024 at 07:32 am
Options, options, options, I’m right there with ya.
Guam
May 08, 2024 at 07:54 am
Stenovich also commented that he thought Jenkins and Tom would not be moving from their current positions (from local Madson newspaper) so it would seem that the battle is between Walker and Morgan for LT. Walker could certainly move to RT if the coaches change their minds about moving Tom - Walker played RT for Penn State and is familiar with the position.
If Morgan loses the battle for LT, he might well be shifted to RG to provide competition for Rhyan. Lots of moving pieces yet and we may not have solid answers until well into TC.
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 08:29 am
I would absolutely NOT leave Monk out of the conversation at C and RG.
He is an athletic freak and a leader of men.
He may very well be the next Zach Tom and one of the best 5 OL on the team.
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 08:31 am
Stenavich actually spontaneously referenced C as perhaps Jenkins best position. The conference is out there to listen to, but I didn’t get the impression your local paper did, in fact, Stenavich seemed more open minded than I anticipated. As to the LT battle, it was portrayed more as where is Morgan going to add most to overall OL quality, not whether there are options if Walker beats him out.
Guam
May 08, 2024 at 09:50 am
Stenovich's first comment was that Jenkins and Tom weren't moving although he did later opine that center may be Jenkins best position. And yes, Stenovich seems open to options although moving Tom to center didn't seem to be one of those options. I got the impression that Walker was the favorite to win the LT role although Steno never actually said as much.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 10:51 am
Wilde writes for State Journal. I know he was at the presser because I heard him ask questions.
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 09:12 am
"Walker played RT for Penn State and is familiar with the position"
Maybe as a freshman but he was the starter at LT starting in his 2nd season.
Guam
May 08, 2024 at 09:44 am
RT (not a starter although he appeared in four games) as a freshman, starter LT as a sophomore and junior.
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 10:10 am
I listened to Steno's presser. He is enamored with Myers...especially his leadership and communication.
Either fans like me are too hard on him, or Steno is too easy as Myers seems to be entrenched as one of the OC's "favorite five".
Lots of talk again about playing the "best five" but to me, with this coaching staff, it is more their "favorite five".
There were just too many run plays where Myers completely missed his target and was a non factor or got mauled. He is decent at pass blocking. And maybe with a solid run blocking RG next to him he improves (JRJ was also subpar at run blocking).
He's still a young man with upside. Has a year to show it. I hope Monk makes the decision to give Myers and 2nd K a difficult one.
I do think drafting Monk probably foreshadows Tom stays at RT.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 12:03 pm
They have Tom and Walker coming due the year after too so giving Myers more money shouldn't be in the cards. This was the deepest, most athletic center class I can remember, I really wish he would have drafted one.
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 01:37 pm
M
O
N
K
'He" did draft one...
...and there are currently 3 C on the roster with these comments about them on record...
Myers - he has done an admirable job at C
Jenkins - Center may be his best position
Tom - He could be a Hall of famer at center
No lack of candidates, the lack seems to be in the will of the coaches to objectively select the best candidate for the job (even considering the filling in at other positions).
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 01:51 pm
Offhand comments by either "anonymous sources" or quips in a press conference do not suggest what you're saying here. Is there any indication anywhere that the Green Bay Packers aren't putting the best team on the field that they can.
Though that was rhetorical, I'll answer it for you. No. Other than in your fantasy world.
Johnblood27
May 10, 2024 at 07:52 am
I hope that you are not responding to me.
'fantasy world"?
if you paid more attention to the information coming out of 1265 you would have heard the GBP coaching staff speak the comments I listed above.
If you want a link you research it, don't even think about asking me to footnote a comment on a freakin' interweb message board. I have written and published 2 advanced degree theses and numerous Scientific Journal and trade publication articles with all of the appropriate references and footnotes, its your turn spunky, doubtful you are competent.
Leatherhead
May 08, 2024 at 06:00 pm
'''''Lots of talk again about playing the "best five" but to me, with this coaching staff, it is more their "favorite five". ''''
Is there any possibility that Steno wants to win games?
It's not best 5. It's not favorite 5. It's the best unit. All things considered, who is he putting out there? It's not like we're getting stomped, despite having injuries. We put a respectable line out there every week. Even Lombardi had his Lions game.
So Steno agrees with the people who ranked Myers in the Top 100, and with the Packers management who took him?? And he's wrong, and they're wrong. Myers was taken in the 2nd round, became an instant starter, got hurt, and started every game after he returned.
Again, you can't have above average starters at every position. This isn't Lake Woebegone. We should be thankful that we have two....Jenkins and Tom, and possibly Morgan. That's about as above-average as you're going to see in the league.
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 08:25 am
He may well be a LT long term, but right now he should go wherever gives us the best overall 5. The draft position thing should not come into the equation at this point.
To me, what happens on the OL moving forward will start with figuring out who is in serious contention at RG. There are a lot of possibles. If we can narrow that, then we can focus on where Morgan, Jenkins and Tom play. I’d be quite happy if our OL ended up Walker-Morgan-Jenkins-??-Tom. There are a lot of permutations if we find answers at G.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 09:29 am
not seeing it.
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 09:55 am
I see it as much as I see some others. I don’t really have a preference other than that they keep an open mind based on play and get the best 5 out there.
Turophile
May 08, 2024 at 06:59 am
Way too soon for it, but I just have this feeling of it being a special year for the Packers. Its a long, very long road ahead to the playoffs and beyond, but I have this good vibe.
I just hope this is the the real prescient thing and not a 'green and gold glasses' over-estimation.............and even if the Packers are as good as I hope this year, there will still be injury issues to overcome, like every year. As long as there are not too many key injuries or too many injuries to one position group, this team can go far, maybe even all the way.
Regarding injuries, while they hurt every team, I think this team has a little more depth than many others and can stand a few injuries and keep rolling.
Guam
May 08, 2024 at 08:07 am
It is hard not to have "green and gold glasses" this time of year Turophile! The Packers are unbeaten and unbloodied and the future is bright.
My biggest takeaway from the coordinator interviews is that I won't continue to have to throw things at my TV because the CB's are playing nine yards off on a third and three play. Hafley was quite clear that he will play an aggressive, attacking defense. Yes, that means that the Packer D will likely give up more big plays but it won't serve up long drives on a regular basis. It was so demoralizing to watch other teams mount long drive after long drive while Joe Barry sat back and hoped the other guys would make a mistake.
I will take turnovers, three and outs and the occasional big play over getting the ball shoved down our throats ever time.
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 08:33 am
Hey Turo, the season feels new and wonderful with no lurking shadow hanging over the team.
That was a completely new and different feeling last year and while the body was gone, the shadow remained.
No body, no shadow, no worries... clear eyes and positive attitudes all around!
Packers0808
May 08, 2024 at 07:07 am
Is it me or what that there is such an interest in replacing Walker at left tackle, I thought actually he did an admirable job at that position especially at end of season. My guess is Morgan was taken with the right guard position in mind. Myers maybe moved out as well, time will tell.
dobber
May 08, 2024 at 07:32 am
Having a surplus of NFL quality options at OT would be a nice problem to have.
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 08:37 am
Spending the 25th pick in the draft on a guy to play RG in a position switch would be a colossal waste of draft capital.
I would rather have seen Gutey actually draft the best actual guard than take the gamble on the 7th or 8th best OT making a position switch just to shore up the 'weakest' position on any OL.
Lets hope that Morgan can and does play LT very well and claims the position as his own on merit.
Like the saying goes... swing the axe, let the chips fall where they may...
Some of those chips may fall into other positions along the OL, some may end up on the bench, but you have to just 'swing the axe' in competition for the most important position along the OL, namely LT.
GregC
May 08, 2024 at 09:09 am
To call it a colossal waste of draft capital is an overstatement. It's been a long time since the Packers drafted a guard (or center), in the first round, but other teams do it quite often. They are not crazy. And besides, if Morgan plays guard this year, that doesn't mean he will never play tackle. He may need a year to hone his craft before he can be trusted to hold down the edge. It's all cool. These are good problems!
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 09:20 am
Morgan was the #2 rated player at OG on most online draft boards.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 09:35 am
and god knows online draft boards are the deciding factor in all NFL front offices
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 10:01 am
I agree with this, however, I was just giving some information about how he was viewed overall.
Turophile
May 08, 2024 at 09:54 am
I think of it slightly differently. As the Packers have stated Morgan starts out at LT. Because that is such a hard position to fill with a top quality player, if he can play LT at a higher level than Walker, fair enough he takes the spot.
If however, he cannot play OT at a high enough level to beat out Walker, it's only THEN that he is considered for guard. There is no wasted pick if he can play well at guard - it probably isn't what the coaches would prefer, but if Morgan bumps ANYONE off the line, that is a result, not a failure, not a waste.
If Morgan does not find a place as a starter on the line but becomes the swing tackle (and maybe guard) backup, that IS a disappointment, but it still falls short of what you call a colossasal waste of draft capital. THAT is only true if he fails to stick on the team, at all.
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 01:30 pm
Guard is just NOT a position worth the 25th overall pick in a draft, especially RIGHT guard (which I called the weakest position on any OL)
THAT is my point.
Morgan needs to better than RG to justify the lofty selection.
Turophile
May 08, 2024 at 03:16 pm
Did you actually read what I wrote ? That the Packers would prefer Morgan to succeed at Tackle...........Your description of 'colossal waste' is just wrong. Was Mike Wahle (2nd round pick) a colossal waste, or Ross Verba (round 1) ? Both were tried at tackle first and then moved to guard.
Your opinion is too binary, THIS is success, THAT is failure. Actually the reality is a sliding scale with varying degrees of success or otherwise. It is not simply total success, with anything else being 'colossal waste'.
But to address the point of a guard in round one, Barton was taken at #26, with the very next pick.
Going back from now to 2019, 10 interior offensive linemen were taken in round 1. Lindstrom, Bradbury, Ruiz, Leatherwood, Green, Johnson, Linderbaum, Strange, Skoronski and of course Barton this year. History is against you in this regard. In fact a whopping 4 IOLs were taken in round 1 in 2022, so a lot of teams are at odds with your statement.
Guard IS IS IS a perfectly valid pick in round one, particularly with the later picks. Before pick 20 they would have to be pretty good for me to think they are the best pick (though the draft varies each year), but after that, absolutely fine.
Positional value counts, yes.............. but so does overall talent and you cannot just focus on one and ignore the other.
crayzpackfan
May 08, 2024 at 08:41 am
"My guess is Morgan was taken with the right guard position in mind. Myers maybe moved out as well, time will tell."
If this is true, I have no clue why we would spend a first round pick at 25 on a RG (the lowest talent spot on the OL).
Packers0808
May 08, 2024 at 09:07 am
Quite simple it seems, pick the best 5 and Walker appears to be well on his way to that.
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 10:23 am
I believe the selection of Morgan indicates the team IS NOT yet convinced Walker is the LT in Jordan Love's future as his primary protector.
I think of it this way...If Bakhtiari was healthy and under contract, would a top tier college LT been drafted in the 1st?
Morgan will start his practices at LT. How he holds up against Preston, Van Ness, Wooden will determine if he kicks inside or stays on the blind side. Walker played well down the stretch though...competition raises all boats.
TKWorldWide
May 08, 2024 at 09:14 am
I’d guess GB thinks Morgan can win the LT job. If not, he could supplant another lineman, which would still be an upgrade overall.
dblbogey
May 08, 2024 at 10:17 am
Jerry Kramer might disagree.
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 01:32 pm
Mastodons might argue with sabretooth tigers too...
T7Steve
May 08, 2024 at 09:51 am
Hopefully Walker can take it up a notch from "admirable" with the stiff competition.
We want everyone to improve at every position. That's how we take the next step.
Remember there's still a guy named Newman on the squad that's been a much-used depth piece.
We HAVE to get better!
RCPackerFan
May 08, 2024 at 07:35 am
The Coordinators speak:
Stenovich -
With Morgan I'm happy that our coaches are open minded and flexible. I like that they are willing to find a guys best spot. Not just pigeon hole them into one spot. Sometimes its about opportunity with players.
One of the comments that stood out to me is when he was talking about Lloyd. He was talking about his speed. But then he said that he wants to get him out there as much as possible. He wants to get him the ball in space and that he will add an explosive element to the offense.
Hafley -
Based on listening to Hafley, and from the draft reports, my way to early prediction. Cooper will be the DROY. I think he is going to really show up when games start.
"On the defensive line, "that group HAS to attack. They're not going to be a passive read and react. No, they're going to go and they're going to get off the ball." Sounds like we're finally going to get what we've wanted from a Green Bay Packers defense. "
My initial thought was that this is going to benefit a few players. Clark, Wyatt, and Brooks. I think each of these players will immediately impact. I am curious to see what it does for some of the others too, but I think each of these guys could really improve their games.
This attacking defense is going to be such a breath of fresh air.
Davante Speaks:
This is my thoughts. Adams wanted out because of his contract. That was reason 1. But, I do believe he wanted out because he didn't think Rodgers was going to be there much longer and he didn't want bad QB play to hurt his game. Ironically he gets sent to the Raiders and he deals with bad QB play. And now after seeing how good Love has become he wants to go back.
So it does make me wonder what he really thought of Love.
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 10:49 am
Davante Adams...I am as interested in his comments now after he left the Packers higher K offer on the table, as I am in Rodgers' current "musings". He deliberately decided he no longer wanted to be a Packer. Good luck to you, Mr. Adams.
My take from Steno regarding Lloyd is they see a dual threat RB...with his receiving skillset as a real diamond in the rough. Lloyd...as well as Jacobs...will be ideal in the Illusion of Complexity Offense. Both are sneaky good receivers for ML and Steno to include in more passing plays. Defenses are going to be stretched thin if this works. Both RBs are YAC machines.
The highlight of the pressers was Hafley's infectious enthusiasm and clear communication: "attitude, the effort and the commitment" is what he will demand from his D.
He's going to work them hard and I think they will enjoy coming to work.
I also heard a little Vince in him with regard to funneling down the game plan...simplified but tailored to the upcoming opponent. Then practice the game plan with lots of reps and playing fast. Don't think men...DO!
It reminded me of the vaunted Packer sweep and imagining Vince's booming voice on the practice field "Run it again!"
RCPackerFan
May 08, 2024 at 11:08 am
"Davante Adams...I am as interested in his comments now after he left the Packers higher K offer on the table, as I am in Rodgers' current "musings". He deliberately decided he no longer wanted to be a Packer. Good luck to you, Mr. Adams."
The Packers did offer him more. But that was after he already told them to kick rocks after they wouldn't come up higher in the offer.
I think it worked out well for GB with the trade they made.
"My take from Steno regarding Lloyd is they see a dual threat RB"
I really think they are very excited having Lloyd. I do think he provides a different element then what they have. And you are right that him and Jacobs have sneaky good hands. What should excite us is that we have explosive options all over our offense now. In the passing game we have pure speed at WR with Watson, Melton and Reed. We have Musgrave at TE. At RB we have Lloyd. We have a lot of speed options.
Packerpasty
May 08, 2024 at 03:45 pm
where his family wanted to live...west..also had a lot to do with it...he knew AR was gone and Love hadn't proven anything when it was time for him to make a decision...the decision turned out not so great for him unfortunately
BradHTX
May 08, 2024 at 07:42 am
Lecitus Smith may be the heir apparent to Cletidus Hunt at the AN position (Awesome Name).
BradHTX
May 08, 2024 at 07:48 am
As to Davante missing winning, well, all I have to say is… choices have consequences. You chose to jump ship for more money, to be closer to family, and to play with your college buddy Derek. Now he’s in New Orleans after one season together. Enjoy the shorter flight for family visits, the couple extra million, and being part of one of the NFL’s perennial toilet franchises.
You’re a Raider now; you gambled and lost. That’s what Vegas is about. They didn’t build all those casinos on people winning…
Johnblood27
May 08, 2024 at 08:42 am
Hey Brad, wait a minute...
The casinos were built on people winning!
Just not the people from out of town!
I love LV, I don't gamble anymore (I hate to lose waaaaaay more than I like to win, so the small wins do not offset the downs from losing for me), I just go for the people watching, the shows and the restaurants. ...on a side note, people watching is more interesting in Reno, there are some real whack jobs that go there...
BradHTX
May 08, 2024 at 05:07 pm
I agree, I love Vegas and I almost never gamble. So much to do there aside from wasting money in the casinos.
I’m an escape room lover, and we were just there and played a 50 Shades of Grey themed room inside an adult toy store next to a strip club. It was terrible, but I had the experience of retrieving a clue from inside a vibrator stuck in the vag of a sex doll handcuffed to a bed, and no one can ever take that away from me… Only in Vegas!
Johnblood27
May 10, 2024 at 07:55 am
now your life is complete!
what a unique experience... now, that's entertainment!
LeotisHarris
May 08, 2024 at 08:44 am
Life is filled with not so subtle reminders that time marches on. I've assumed the role of the guy who says "I remember his dad as a player' across the sport spectrum. Beats the alternative, for sure.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 09:37 am
you refer of course to not remembering, despite having been there.
TKWorldWide
May 09, 2024 at 06:16 am
And just a quick update:
Father Time is STILL undefeated, while The Alternative is still looking for his first win.
Booyah!
Starrbrite
May 08, 2024 at 08:55 am
“Sounds like we're finally going to get what we've wanted from a Green Bay Packers defense.”
Exactly what I believe.
Colin Cowerd says you need to be very good at three positions in the NFL: QB; O-Tackle; Edge Rusher.
I would add either a star CB/Safety and/or LB to the list…and I believe we have it all covered now.
Go Packers!!!
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:03 am
Colin Cowherd says a lot of things. More wrong than right I'd say.
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 11:30 am
He began last season trashing Jordan Love. I mean really trashing him with his "know it all" arrogance. I heard him say about Jordan (based on a sample size after a few games and focusing on a few plays) that he "doesn't have it". Without saying the word "failure", he fired comment arrows into that target.
Once the Packers began winning, he completely acted like he was on the Love Train all along. He even stated "I love how Matt LaFleur has finally coached him up, correcting the problems I mentioned earlier in the season."
That's when I turned him off.
Starrbrite
May 08, 2024 at 07:39 pm
Who said I agree with everything Colin Cowerd says?
…sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I don’t. Kinda like this website—sometimes agree and sometimes not. Just opinions
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 09:32 am
It's unrealistic to assume that the Packers will carry Jenkins massive contract in 2025. Also, because this is the last year of Myers rookie deal, I think both center and left guard will change in 2025 and that both of those positions will be rookie contracts going forward. Morgan is the starting left tackle until he proves himself unworthy.
The business of football will dictate the 2025 line, and the 2024 line doesn't require overthinking.
Leatherhead
May 08, 2024 at 09:59 am
Jenkins turns 29 this season. Next year, his cap# is twice what his dead money would be, and in 2026, it's about 5 times as much. 2024 could be his last year here, maybe 2025, but I don't see us paying $25M for a guard on the bad side of 30 with an injury history.
Morgan is the starting LT until he shows he can't do it. Personally, if Butkus and Stenovich turned two Day 3 picks into starting tackles (Tom and Walker), I don't think they'll have too much trouble turning Morgan into a starting LT.
Monk will spend this year learning and improving, and if the Packers don't think he's the starting Center for next year then we'll see what we do in the draft.
I'm assuming we'll try to extend/resign Tom. He's been a bargain for the last two years, he's a bargain this year and next. We could extend and that would mitigate the average yearly cost of keeping him, but he's worth it. Tom and Morgan will be the tackles during the Jordan Love window, and that's a pretty good pair. Jenkins, Myers, and Rhyan will all be replaced during the window.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 10:37 am
I know it will make peoples heads explode here, but it's not beyond the realm of expectation that Myers could see a second contract on club friendly terms. I think Tom re-signing is a no-brainer.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:15 am
It depends on how they feel about Walker and Tom a year from now. Having to let one of them go because you gave Myers a big deal seems like a huge error at this point.
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 11:25 am
If Myers breaks out significantly this then maybe, but unless that happens, at this point I’d bet the only way is that there’s no other market for him of note and we don’t like our depth. That’s not an impossible scenario, but I think we’d go cheaper and younger.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they extend Jenkins. He’s not 29 till the end of December and had an injury, not an injury history. This time he won’t get paid as a T though, unless the coming season really throws up a surprise.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 11:46 am
As a person who beats the drum for younger, faster, cheaper it's hard for me to make a convincing argument that Myers will be re-signed. He's been workmanlike, not top of the food chain. He will definitely find a job though, even if not with the Packers. He'll join the long list of pretty good centers who previously worked for the Pack.
My memory is Jenkins missed time more than once in his career. He has two years of tackle money coming, and if Aaron Jones is any example, there's no way in hell he sees that money. Will his agent and he see fit to renegotiate to keep his job as a guard when he's proven he can be a top ten tackle? Seems doubtful to me. Leatherhead made a case that if he moves to center his salary makes a bit more sense, but I'm not seeing it. Lastly, I'd hope that Green Bay learned its lesson on third contracts for linemen with the Bakhtiari deal.
Oppy
May 08, 2024 at 05:31 pm
"(Josh Meyers will) join the long list of pretty good centers who previously worked for the Pack."
ohhh, no. nope.
He is not one of those list of pretty good centers. I won't say he's horrible, but he's not Tretter, Wells, Linsley, Winters, etc etc.
He's Josh Meyers. A guy I'd consider a placeholder. He's in.. Evan Dietrich-Smith level aire.
Leatherhead
May 08, 2024 at 06:14 pm
I've noticed that also. He wouldn't be nearly as expensive as people would think. I think a lot of it will depend on how this year goes .
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:07 am
"Morgan is the starting LT until he shows he can't do it."
I don't believe that to be true at all. Walker was playing like a top 10 tackle by the end of the year. If he puts in the work this off-season to improve a couple areas I see no reason he'll lose the job. If Morgan can come in and play like a top 10 T they got a steal, but I doubt that happens.
https://twitter.com/zachkruse2/status/1744732995918172625?t=dM5G4IGaaSxF...
Leatherhead
May 08, 2024 at 06:27 pm
So The Plan at 1265 is to spend your first round pick on a guy who is a LT, and then have him sit on the bench as a swing tackle behind Walker and Tom? Or maybe play him at RG?
That's the plan?
I don't think so. I'd have loved to be in the room when somebody ran that up the flagpole. More likely, they want Morgan to be our LT, and they'll make Walker the swing tackle. Kills a couple of birds with one stone. Strengthens and secures the 2nd most important position for the next four years and improves our depth. Win/win.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 08:18 pm
More likely they realized their season could go in the crapper if Walker or Tom got hurt because the backups are three non athletic giants. So they probably said let's grab a tackle, let the three of them compete for the two spots and at least the 3rd guy will be way better than what we have on the roster now. Drafting a guy and handing him a starters spot is a good way to lose the locker room. He may beat out Walker to start at LT but I have my doubts. Walker is more technically sound and was playing well at the end of the year.
It's funny you thought a 3rd rounder with one year of experience would beat out a 4th rounder the next year even though he looked horrible whenever he was on the field. But a 7th rounder with two years experience and a full year starting has no chance against a 1st rounder even though he was playing at a top 10 level at the end of the year. I guess it's all about where they were drafted, not how they play.
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 10:06 am
"It's unrealistic to assume that the Packers will carry Jenkins massive contract in 2025"
Why is it unrealistic? As of right now the Packers are $68M under the cap for 2025 and that includes Jenkins contract.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 10:34 am
Because tackle money for a 30 year old guard is bad business in the NFL. Math.
Younger, faster, cheaper.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:12 am
There's five guards getting more than Jenkins now, unless his play precipitously declines I doubt they move on from him. Maybe in 2026 but first they have to have an adequate replacement and right now that's a 5th round pick and Newman.
crayzpackfan
May 08, 2024 at 11:21 am
His play has declined though. I hope he balls out this year though and makes it hard for GB to move on from him.
LambeauPlain
May 08, 2024 at 11:45 am
Most players playing through injury see a decline on the field. Jenks was feared to have seriously injured his knee early in the season but returned to the field after missing just two games.
The last three seasons he also missed playing next to Linsley and Bakhtiari for all or most of those seasons. I think the synergies with those guys was very good.
He's under contract through the next few seasons and I do not see him going anywhere as arguably the best OL on the team.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 11:32 am
right now, yes, next year and the year after, i believe he becomes the highest compensated guard in the NFL - the expectation was he would move over to tackle when Bakhtiari's contract expired.
Jenkins proved he was a damn fine tackle.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 11:52 am
If he's the highest compensated guard it's on the Packers not him. They shuffle the money around. When looking at highest paid I just go off of AAV because teams have so many ways of moving the money in a contract around it's like three card Monti. AAV has its limitations too because if a guy is cut early the AAV will change.
One nice thing with Jenkins' deal is he didn't get the guarantees guys are getting now.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 11:59 am
the dead money goes down in each of the next three seasons (source: leatherhead).
there's no question he's the starting left guard in 2024, 2025 and beyond will require renegotiation.
DoubleJ
May 08, 2024 at 12:15 pm
If he plays well in 2024 and you already know you aren't in a bad spot from the cap perspective in 2025 I could see him playing 2025 at his current cap. However, 2026 and beyond is when it gets interesting.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 12:28 pm
well. Bakhtiari played well, got a gargantuan contract and then succumbed to age. I'm kind of against third contracts in general and specifically against them in high compensation line positions
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 12:58 pm
I don’t see Jenkins being paid what he’s scheduled to be paid in 2026: 25 million. He either gets an extension or I think it will be over. By then he will be 31 by season end. My guess is he’s extended after this off season if he’s healthy to manage the hit or he ends up leaving through trade or release before the 2026 season.
His dead cap pre June 1: next year is $4,800,000, and a saving of $12,800,000, so net $8,000,000. In 2026 it’s the same Dead cap and a saving of $20,000,000, so net of $15,200,000, per OTC.
Landon Dickerson is the highest-paid guard in NFL history at $21 million per year. It's a four-year, $84 million deal that can go up to $87 million with $50 million guaranteed and a $20 million signing bonus. I don’t see us allocating 25 million in cap to Jenkins even 2 years hence. Dickerson will cost less than 11 million that year. He doesn’t pass Jenkins’ 2025 cap hit till 2028 and Jenkins’ 2026 hit till 2029.
Bitternotsour
May 08, 2024 at 01:28 pm
sometimes the things that are obvious and logical are actually logical and obvious.
when healthy, Jenkins is the man.
Leatherhead
May 08, 2024 at 06:32 pm
For 2025, his cap hit is $25M, and if we release or trade him , it's less than $5M. I think that 25-5=$20 Million saved.
Alberta_Packer
May 08, 2024 at 12:02 pm
I believe that the Packers see Morgan as exclusively @ LT - and not as a G - otherwise they could have drafted Barton - who may be the better IOL. Now the Packers are not going to assure any rookie a set position (see also Safetys). Nor do they want to discourage Walker from competing for his position - as the incumbent. In the end, I see an excellent O-line with Morgan @ starting LT - with Walker as a swing Tackle / RT should Tom be moved to C. Then Jenkins @ LG. With RG candidates Rhyan, Monk, Jennings ...
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 12:36 pm
It's quite possible they thought Morgan was a better prospect at T and G than Barton. Somebody had him as their #1 guard on their board maybe the Packers did too.
Coldworld
May 08, 2024 at 05:37 pm
Barton is a better C prospect, but he doesn’t have the strength or power of Morgan (or Monk). G is probably the least optimal position for him if you don’t worry that his wingspan shorter than Tom’s or Morgan’s for that matter. I personally think he can play T, at least as a swing. It’s very clear the Packers wanted a player that they were confident could play either full time. I liked Barton (the C option appealed and he can play all 5), but I thought Morgan was a better T and G prospect and still do.
cdoemel
May 08, 2024 at 12:45 pm
Morgan, LT
Jenkins, LG
Tom, C
Rhyan, RG
Walker, RT
Myers
Dillard
C. Jones
Newman
Telfort
Tenuta
Jennings
T. Jones
stockholder
May 08, 2024 at 01:54 pm
I don't agree with any of you.
TT dumped Guards.
Morgan was drafted for the left side.
They say LT; but if Walker shows he's still
still better than Morgan at LT.
Why move Walker?.
Walker would have played RT not Tom.
Morgan will be the LG and Jenkins will
be traded. Book it.
Follow the money and you'll see who Leaves.
Jenkins looked bad at RT.
He got injured playing LT.
The only way Jenkins stays,
is if Walker doesn't play LT.
LLCHESTY
May 08, 2024 at 08:35 pm
Raise your hand if you agree with Stockholder.
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?