Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Ok, I'm a Jets Fan

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Calm down, let me explain. The Packers have been (50+ years) and will always be my true love. But living in the Land of the Giants and Jets, and reading about them every day in the local papers, I couldn't help but have a small interest in one of these teams. Then 1969 happened - Joe Willie Namath and the underdog Jets upset the NFL apple cart and won my favor as my football "side chick." I followed them minimally from there until I met my future wife in 1980. My soon-to-be father-in-law was a huge and charter member Jets fan. He followed them from their first season (1960), when they were known as the New York Titans and played in the iconic Polo grounds. Naturally his sons became Jets fans while my wife wasn't that much into football, preferring baseball instead.

Before you knew it, the 90's came around and the Packers found their HOF quarterback and success, and then their next HOF quarterback and more success, I started feeling bad for my in-laws and what they had to endure as Jets fans. So, I've always rooted for the Jets to do well, except of course, if they were playing the Packers. Fast forward to 2023, and lo and behold, the Jets land Aaron Rodgers. The irony of this for me and my in-laws was rather dramatic. You could feel the optimism and excitement among Jets fans around here. They were starting to believe good things were actually possible for the  NY Jets and then, just like that, it was over. "Same ol' Jets" was the refrain. But I didn't believe that - and the reason was the Jets defense.

To any Jets fan that would listen, I told them that their season is not over because they had a championship defense. I also felt that Zach Wilson would have been aided significantly by his time spent with Aaron Rodgers and soaking up his knowledge. All the Jets needed from Wilson was to avoid turnovers, hand the ball off to Breece Hall and find Garret Wilson from time to time  They wouldn't have to score a lot with this defense.

And that brings me around to the title of this week's column. Yes, I am a Jets fan, specifically, a fan of their defense. They are everything I would wish for the Packers defense to be. And I'm not even talking about the talent level of the individual players, I'm talking about the attitude, the intensity, the effort level. Opposing offenses probably feel like the Jets have 15 players on the field because they are everywhere you don't want them to be. They swarm the ball, they intercept the ball, they force and recover your fumbles, they don't miss open field tackles and when they hit you, they want to be sure you feel it. As Saleh has said (paraphrasing), their defensive philosophy is to force the issue and punch you in the mouth until you wilt.  They've gotten the best of three of the top five quarterbacks in the NFL only six games into this season. For decades, my in-laws have been jealous of the Packers. I am now jealous of the Jets - at least of their defense, anyway.

Meanwhile, back to the Packers...

The Packers have a running back problem. This was supposed to be the year for a resurgence of the running game. For a variety of reasons, it hasn't come close. So Brian Gutenkunst made a very interesting signing this week, bringing in James Robinson to the Practice Squad. Robinson had a lot of early success in Jacksonville, before tearing his Achilles tendon. Since then, he's had trouble sticking with a team. One would tend to point to the injury as the main reason, but if that were still the case, would the medically uber-conservative Packers do this signing? They must feel he's healthy and are rolling the dice that he can recapture some of that rookie magic he had in 2020. BTW, looking back at his stats, he started 17 games over two seasons for Jacksonville and averaged 4.6 yds per carry while scoring 18 touchdowns. But wait, there's more. He was also a very productive receiver, catching 80 passes over those two seasons at a 7.6 yd per catch average. Lets hope this turns out to be another useful under-the-radar Gutey signing. Here are some James Robinson highlights, but as you see, the NFL is going to make you go to YouTube to watch it.

 

 

 

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__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

__________________________

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10 points
 

Comments (95)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Coldworld's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:15 am

I wonder if the signing is really for now or an audition for the future if he shows he has fully recovered. The chatter in NE was that his issue since has been issues with the durability of associated tissues that impacted durability as much as performance. Perhaps a lighter load may help him get over that hill.

As to the Jets. Despite the changes in the NFL, every year there are teams that play aggressive, physical D. I’ve never bought into the fact it can’t be done, simply because it always is being done. Unfortunately, not by the Packers.

Defensive play can be exciting to watch. That doesn’t have to be physical, but if it’s not it has to be an incredible bunch of players. It’s a decade or more since I consistently genuinely enjoyed watching a Packers D. It’s easier (not easy) to do it through attitude and culture. Unfortunately, the teams that do seem to have a very different overall culture to ours.

12 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:34 am

Is there an identifiable culture in Green and Gold? I go back to teams reflecting their coach, there are many examples. I can't think of what that characteristic is in Green Bay.

6 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:13 pm

well, it seems to be, as the Jets coach has said in the past, Green Bay is "soft"....cant much argue with that..

3 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:17 am

Al I agree with you that the Jets defense is good and that they do swarm to the ball. The Packers defense seems to be tentative and thinking too much. First they need to go out and have fun playing the game they have played for years. But there is only so much the players can do. Berry has proven that he is at best an average DC. Yes we are stuck with him until close to the end of the season when they might see what they have on the coaching staff.

It is interesting how the Packers have all these high draft picks and good players on defense but are not nearly as good as the 49ers, Jets, or Eagles. Even the Browns defense looked great this last week. We need players playing like their caeer depended on it.

13 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:31 am

Man o Man would I like a HC who wants to punch you in the mouth or even bite your kneecaps off... Our HC? He just wants to get his eyebrows tweezed.

8 points
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mrtundra's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:11 am

I'd like MLF to go all Frida Kahlo on us. Grow that unibrow, stop the tweezing and deck Payton, on game day. Inspire this team to grow unibrows and deck the other team every game! GO PACK, GO!!!

7 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:45 am

Hey, if the "Unibrow" helps them win and actually show some ability to bite some kneecaps I'm all in. Hell, I'll even grow one as a fan in support. Anthony Thompson of the Lakers, the KING of the Unibrow, would even be envious!!

3 points
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PearlyBakerBest's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:22 am

Davis

2 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 18, 2023 at 02:00 pm

LOL...Thanks... Not much of a BB fan.

1 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:15 pm

I have to laugh at coach Staley of the chargers and coach MLF here in GB...both growing some facial hair to look tougher and older than a 16 yr old kid....actions speak louder than looks...both these coaches aint much...both should be on the hot seat...

1 points
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mnbadger's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:45 pm

both need to get back on the seat of the bicycle they were using to deliver newspapers with.
I'd bet a bunch that mlf would be in the newspaper delivery hall of fame.
GPG!

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:36 am

The Jets are the uncle that comes over and sneaks a cigar, uses a coffee cup for an ash tray, then burns a hole in mom's couch.

The Packers are the minister that comes to visit and doesn't want to do anything to disturb grandma's nap.

11 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:03 am

So are you that uncle?

5 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 18, 2023 at 02:24 pm

Been known to have a cigar or two, but would never dream of smoking in any house.

Maybe my uncle Oscar....

1 points
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BradHTX's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:22 am

Pure genius. Well played.

3 points
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Savage57's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:37 am

To the point Al makes about envy and longing for a Jets-like defense: If the trade-off for a decade of the Packers fielding a smothering, top-10, 'meat eater' defense was in exchange for middling QB play, would you be a buyer?

I know, all the gotta have "The Man" stuff, but I'd be willing to take Door #2 just for the chance to see it in my lifetime.

3 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:51 am

That's ok if you don't care that the O-line is a bunch of mamby-pambies too.

6 points
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dobber's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:52 am

THIS is the key problem right now, even though Barry is a favorite whipping-boy. It's hard to run the football and control the clock if the OL is in disarray...and I'd argue this is the main result I'll be interested to see on Sunday: have they made changes?...can this OL play better?

4 points
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mnbadger's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:47 pm

and the entire coaching staff of mamby - pambies.
GPG!

1 points
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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:24 am

Do the Jets have 8 first round picks on defense?

Or is it, that they have better players that are well coached? Hmmm...

Maybe we need to devote more #1 draft picks on defense, while the wr and tight end room get depleted to next to nothing.
OOPS...too late.

YES!!.....Our lone 1st round (and 4th round) pick that Gute drafted on offense, sat on the bench for 3 seasons.
Not...helping a team 1 game away from the Super Bowl.
Pure genius Gute.

So where did that leave us today?
That 3 year bench player is now starting, with a talent depleted offense sans Ted Thompson's 5th round pick Aaron Jones.
Starting in the NFL at QB is hard enough, depleting your pass catching room, did Love no favors
Did Gute deplete that room to 'spite' Rodgers, or didn't he realize it was being depleted?
I don't like either answer.
Pure Brilliance
*****************
James Robinson.....hmmmm
Lets see, a 25 year old who is now on his 4th team in a time frame under 2 years.
Cherry pick his good stats from 2020-2021, but here's the real.

If he's a talent (and i guess he could be, idk).
Ask yourself this...
Why would 4 teams, before the Packers, take a pass on a young cheap talented running back rather then have him on their team?

I'm not the brightest bulb in the room, but my best guess is, all those teams thought his negatives, outweighed his positives.

Yes, right now, we may have a slight issue with running backs, but how long have we had issues with pass catchers?

Yes, i know, i know......Watson, Musgrave, Doubs....i know!!
But when one of them, becomes consistently productive, like idk... maybe top 30 in the NFL, come talk to me.
Because right now, the Packers offense is a hot mess when we have to play a team with a halfway decent defense.

Although the Packers schedule is ultra cushy, we don't play the Bears, Falcons, and Denver's train wreck of a defense, 17 times a season.

No, i'm not Carrying the G, i carry reality. 💯

Yes, grab a cookie, kool aid, and get ready to thumbs down 🤪

1 points
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dobber's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:31 am

" i carry reality."

We all subscribe to our own version of reality.

3 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:19 pm

It's funny how pre-season many were talking like the Pack had 3/4 all pro pass catchers on the team...they seem rather a mediocre bunch to me...just my opinion...every team has "guys" like this crew...oh I know, "they're young they're young"....

3 points
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Razer's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:05 am

Aside from the coaching, the Jets defense seems to feature solid D-line play. If you control the line of scrimmage and dictate the tempo of the plays you disrupt the offense. The Packers have Kenny Clark. We just don't draft or coach the same philosophy.

I am thinking that Al might consider an article name change. While today's issue is truly a confession and one from a polluted mindset, the McCarthy spirit is fading. I would suggest that our current Packers are more an "illusion of complexity" candidate. Perhaps the articles could strip away the illusion part of the team.

6 points
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JerseyAl's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:05 am

I actually considered that change that two years ago but in the end I just love Polluted Mindset too much.

7 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:48 am

Quinnen Williams, CJ Mosely, and Sauce Gardner are all pretty impactful. Hell yes, we’d love to see badass attitudes in GB, but without enough good players it might not matter.

Did Jim Schwartz’s Lions have that killer mentality? Yes. But they lacked quality play. (See, I went with Schwartz instead of Forrest Gregg this time.)

Not being a contrarian: my thought is GB HAS the quality defensive players, but a killer attitude could awaken a sleeping defensive giant! But! I think to get that 180 degree change in attitude means getting a new DC. Is GB willing to do that?

6 points
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Razer's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:51 am

I'd be happy with "know your job and do your job". Yeah, let's start there.

7 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:54 am

GB is seemingly so deep into RAS. But RAS doesn’t measure killer instinct. Nor simple tackling ability. Both of those are…kinda important.

11 points
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dobber's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:09 am

I think you picked the key example with Jim Schwartz and the Lions, although he's gotten a little better as DC elsewhere. They were physical, they hit hard, and they had the horses to control the LOS...but they were undisciplined, took dumb penalties, and tended to beat themselves at times.

For every Robert Saleh defense that plays hard, fast, and smart, there are a bunch of defenses that might have positive attributes, but can't get out of their own way.

Right now, the Packers' defense doesn't show the reckless abandon we'd like to see, but they've played well enough most weeks for the Packers to win. Admittedly, they haven't played many offensive powerhouses. I'd like to see them play faster (as I like to say, "100-mph with their hair on fire"). I'd like to see them push the envelope to half-a-beat past the whistle and be more physically imposing.

They have the chance coming out of the break to do some new things. Aggressiveness breeds attitude. They need more attitude.

9 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:41 am

Agree, agree, agree.

2 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:20 pm

agree....sure they could be tougher but recently if the offense could do anything this team would have won games....Defense isn't all world for sure but they have held their own recently....the offense stinks..

0 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 19, 2023 at 07:25 am

Q. Walker is about the only example of 110%, maybe Kenny Clark and a couple others. But are they mean? Hopefully Walker can get some of the others involved. How long since we had a dominant ISL? Campbell played well one season, but dominating? When C. Mathews was moved inside every team in the league could beat him with a pass to the flats.

0 points
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mnbadger's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:50 pm

a new DC and a new HC as well if you're looking to change to an aggressive attitude.
GPG!

2 points
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Packers0808's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:58 am

Makes me think a lot of Packer fans on here a have a man crush on guys with nice eyebrows, whatever that has to do with coaching or football!

-2 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:20 pm

I want the eyebrows of Forrest Gregg!!

0 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:21 pm

really really bad coach though...

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:03 am

"As Saleh has said (paraphrasing), their defensive philosophy is to force the issue and punch you in the mouth until you wilt. "

No Fear. We have Barry saying to cover Adams we need to survive the down. We need to use inside leverage because we have another CB outside and the sideline. Oh and that is all while he has Preston Smith covering him with no way to adjust the defense.

"The Packers have a running back problem. This was supposed to be the year for a resurgence of the running game. For a variety of reasons, it hasn't come close. So Brian Gutenkunst made a very interesting signing this week, bringing in James Robinson to the Practice Squad."

I am curious about why they didn't bring Patrick Taylor back. Also makes me wonder then why he was used and targeted so much against the Raiders.
I think bringing in Robinson is a smart move. He can help in the run and passing game. He provides a veteran player. I feel like they just don't trust Wilson yet which is why they haven't been using him. Hopefully Robinson can help.

2 points
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dobber's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:20 am

I would argue that Patrick Taylor was familiar, safe, and an easy choice to bring back week after week. He could do special teams (which implies they have someone they think can play in his place) and absorbed some snaps in catch-up mode. As we've seen, though, they don't like him enough to use him in regular rotation--clearly they think they can do better.

I think THAT is the key idea: without Jones, Dillon wasn't giving them what they wanted in those scenarios and they're too chicken-sh!t to try Wilson (as you said). Maybe his pass pro is lousy. Whatever the case, they're kicking the tires on a guy who has a proven NFL track record but hasn't been able to catch on for whatever reason. He has no track record of playing STs, though, which is a clear difference from Taylor.

This is Robinson hooking on to give himself a chance. Maybe he was looking for the right situation...maybe he was asking too much $$ and is realizing that sitting out a year would likely end his career...who knows? Since covid with the new PS rules, Robinson is exactly the kind of guy teams stash on their practice squads in case of injury or emergency...and increasingly, when activated, they play ahead of the guys on the bottom of the depth chart (Wilson).

4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:59 am

He was. So why isn't he on the team? I am assuming this is more on Taylor not wanting to come back then it was Packers not wanting him back. But it still makes me wonder why he isn't back on the roster.

I think Wilson is a guy that has some skills but is raw and they want to try and develop them. In the meantime they need trustworthy guys. Which is why I think they signed Robinson.

I think its a smart move to get him.

But just being honest the move I want is for them to get Tyler Goodson back. When Jones was out, it took out our Juice. We had no juice in the backfield when Jones was gone. Goodson has juice. In camp and preseason they were using him roles similar to how they used Ervin. Which imo is something that is lacking from the offense. But we need another RB that has juice.

1 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:29 am

RC - "But just being honest the move I want is for them to get Tyler Goodson back. When Jones was out, it took out our Juice. We had no juice in the backfield when Jones was gone. Goodson has juice. In camp and preseason they were using him roles similar to how they used Ervin. Which imo is something that is lacking from the offense. But we need another RB that has juice."

HELL YES!!!

0 points
0
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Handsback's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:18 am

Living in North Texas for 25+ years, yeah I know what Al is talking about. I may not like what I see in the Packer offense, but I have high hopes that they become a juggernaut once they learn to play together. I am disappointed in the defense. I understand that they have lost so many starters already, but what bothers me is that their success isn't related to any system or scheme plan but only due to individual performances. So its not the plan but the player. I know we could say that about every defense, but many teams plan for a player to be isolated into a situation so they can make a play, much like Dallas does with Micah Parsons. I don't feel the same way with the Packers. It just seems like a sack, interception is done by luck or a player making a guess to make things happen.
Sorry for the rambling....
Just MHO

6 points
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MemphoMike's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:21 am

Agree completely on the Jets D envy, JA!

I believe that Gutey has picked the talent but Barry's scheme and use of his player personnel are the issue. Some responsibility also falls on the players making more plays, however, it's hard to plan the work/work the plan when the overall plan is flawed. We have the speed and athleticism on D to dictate games with a more aggressive play calling approach but that's not JB's style.

Last year, when we played these same Jets, Robert Saleh said after the game that at halftime he told his players, and I quote, “Just keep giving them [the Packers] body blow after body blow and keep hitting them in the mouth. We felt like if we can just keep taking them down to deeper water they’ll find out they can’t swim. It was just a mindset.”

In order for us to have that "Jets Defense" style, we MUST change our mindset to be able to deliver those body blows and swim in the deep waters.....Unfortunately, and I hope I'm wrong, I'm just not sure we have the DC ( and HC?) who is willing to make that change.

8 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:44 am

Same page.

2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:41 am

"... I hope I'm wrong."

The word which prove that your hope is wrong came out from MLF mouth - CONSISTENCY!

1 points
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beerandbrats's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:31 am

I'm with you Al. I have been looking around the league for a couple of years now at some of the best defenses and I am jealous!

Jim Schwartz was a new hire this year by the Browns and his defense just won the game for them over the 49ers. I don't like Jim Schwartz but that was a good hire!

The old adage says 'defense wins championships'. Running the ball and playing good defense may be boring for those who want to see high scoring aerial attacks but I prefer championships!

6 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:49 am

All the cheap shots at LaFleur's physical appearance are just that; cheap. Remember Dick Vermeil's Eagles teams? And, him bawling and hugging guys in the locker room and on the sideline? How about Marv Levy in Buffalo? Weeb Eubank? Tom Landry? Bill Walsh? Don Shula? The list goes on and the point is made that you don't have to be a talking bicep to be a successful NFL head coach.

Are the Dolphins a reflection of their head coach? Last year it was Brian Daboll who was trotted out as a master motivator as his Giants team channeled his manliness into victories? What happened? He still looks the same?

I don't think Matt LaFleur is cut out to be an NFL head coach. That has nothing to do with his grooming habits.

13 points
14
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Bitternotsour's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:59 am

Grooming isn't leadership to be sure. Yet, I wonder about a correlation to MLF being a bit of a ponce and his lack of coaching verve? We could use the socratic method to investigate.

Dick Vermeil, cerebral, affable, well-groomed, overly emotive, super bowl winner.

Andy Reid, schlub, doofus, multiple super bowl winner.

Nope, no correlation. Apparently leadership is something irrespective of grooming. This does not remove the easy target of waxed and tweezed eyebrows or razor cut hair from the equation however, and I'm unwilling to give up an easy laugh because you think it cheap. A fella has to take what he has available sometimes to make his day less gloomy.

-1 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:24 pm

Whatever, man.

Socrates, now there was a dude with some effed-up hair! No forehead, either. We're talking five, maybe even sixhead if the statues are accurate.

3 points
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Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

October 18, 2023 at 01:41 pm

MLF should try cutting his own hair.

1 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:11 pm

I laughed, Doug. Out loud. Perfect, my friend.

0 points
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PeteK's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:05 am

--Living in Jersey in 69 on opposite side of the Hudson, I couldn't help but admiring the Jets who beat a great Colts team, and Mets pulling off an identical upset vs Orioles.
--It's mainly a Rushing problem: we're near the bottom of the league in stopping the run ( poor tackling-- RBs have too many yds after contact) and running the ball ( poor blocking, but at least getting Jones back will help).

2 points
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coolhand's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:09 am

I personally would hope Gute would be out looking for O linemen, especially a center and a road grader guard. Instead he signs a RB who, even if healthy will have no where to go since the blocking is usually so bad. Why has Wilson barely seen the field? Is it because of his pass pro? Shouldn't we be using his speed as a receiver and not as a blocking back? Without AJ, using Dillon is fine but he has no speed so we are stuck running between the tackles and the defense knows it. With some outside speed we can spread out the defense and open up the middle of the field, but that doesn't seem to fall into MLF's analytics.

5 points
5
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PeteK's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:38 am

There are non available, so the hope right now is development and continuity of our young linemen which could bring about improvement. Linemen need to play together in order to have success, two new Ts, inexperienced C ,and a G changing sides calls for patience.

0 points
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1
dobber's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:35 am

We'll see what they trot out for a starting 5 on Sunday, but as with last year when they decided for some reason that they needed to play Newman and Hanson, they might find the answers to better OL play in their own OL room (Rhyan? Nijman? Move Tom? Jones?). Sometimes you need to just ask the question to find the right answer (e.g. can these guys elevate the play of the OL?).

0 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:55 pm

I can not wait to see what the starting 5 will be. Here's hoping it is something aproximating what we have clamored for.

0 points
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Zapato's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:13 am

Oh man! You made me pine for the days of Fritz Shurmur. Stop the run was #1! All the great defenses dare you to run against them. The Packers haven't had that type of D since Fritz was in charge. Now, it's stop the pass and let's hope they don't run on us too much. Not a great recipe for success against elite quarterbacks. Or even above average QBs and effective offensive strategy. Yeah, I'm tired of long 4th quarter drives when we need a stop. End of rant!

8 points
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1
Qoojo's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:48 pm

I suspect Barry could be given Reggie White and still screw it up.

2 points
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NFLfan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:20 am

I'm a Jets Defense fan.(Packer fan as well but they are a snooze-fest right now) Robert Saleh reminds me of Dan Campbell with his obvious love of his guys. That D is must-watch TV.
The Offense is frustrating, though, when they trot out Cobb & Lazard and don't play Hardman? Hackett and maybe Saleh are afraid to upset the Lord of Darkness. I think Saleh has decided to play over and around the pitiful Offense.
It seems that FOA's (friends of Aaron's) including non-blocking but fellow Broadway play buddy, TE CJ Uzomah get the majority of the snaps. Jets fans are starting to complain. There is an ever-increasing drum beat to bench Cobb.

2 points
3
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Rebecca's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:25 pm

Dance with the Devil on the Dark Lord’s dance card.

0 points
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UdderApocowlipse's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:38 am

I once watched a recording of an old NFL Films clip, at least I'm fairly sure it was an NFL Films clip, on youtube.com, and it involved a redzone play at the end of a game, there was pandemonium with fans prematurely rushing onto the field before fruition of the final play. Again, pandemonium. If memory of the clip serves, there was a guy in a trench coat or large winter coat that actually batted a pass down in the endzone.

This occurred in the 50's or 60's and I thought it involved the Jets at the Polo Grounds.

Is there anything you can add about the this event? The video I was watching was in a long video composed of a variety of old NFL footage, and right in the middle was this peculiar occurrence. I'd love to know more about what this was, and you, Mr. Al, sound like you might be the guy to consult about this. Or Vic, but sadly, I don't foresee myself getting out to Edisto Island any time soon.

0 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:30 pm

Here ya go. 1961. A Boston Patriots' fan (hard to believe, right?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoeBmCNX1Ho

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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:40 am

A Jets fan since 1969...well...yea, ok.
I knew there was something off with that guy.

I don't know how to be a fan of another team. I don't have that in me.
It isn't possible (for me).

I was born a Packer fan, i'll always be a Packer fan, and i'll die a Packer fan, period.

-2 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 18, 2023 at 07:50 pm

Me too.

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stockholder's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:55 am

I Was told to be a Jets fan. - Oh the negatives.
But then I always knew what was wrong with the packers.

The jets play the 4-3-4. The Packers don’t.
They don’t have DE for LBs.
They invested in the DL. Gutey didn’t until lately.
Williams ,Johnson, And other guys that tackle.
They play their picks from the start.
So keep on with the revolving door.
I can’t help it if your blind with Love.

Seems I Wanted to trade up for a RB.
And Now that Gutey decided the next step,
Could be Robinson, Where is the Running Game?

But I’ll tell you right where the next step is.
It’s getting Love to move this offense in the first 1/2.
And if he can’t do that against Denver.
It’s time for a Qb change.

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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:12 pm

Yea, i'll give a thumbs up.

I will say i believe that the Packers offense will move the ball against this train wreck of a Denver defense.
But if they can't...Ruh Roh......but i still think they will.

Even if they lose, their won't be a QB change this quick.

Again, i didn't like all the drama from the last 3 seasons, but since we suffered through all that, you have to give Love his chance during this season and maybe into the next season.
I mean, we came this far, i want to read the last chapters of this book.

For there to be a QB change, two things would have to happen.
1) Injury
2) Love completely sheets the bed in the coming 5 or so weeks and with this cush schedule, i don't see it happening.

Matter of fact, after the Denver game, i'm looking for the Jordan Love kool aid to be guzzled down again, like after the Bear game.
At least for another week

1 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

October 18, 2023 at 09:55 am

If this Packer Defense cannot find a way to punch Denver in the mouth this week, I would find it hard to see it happening at all. Looking at this coming game from a different view, I would be wary of a 'false positive' from the Defensive standpoint, because achieving a bar once seems to be the limit, especially against teams who are already near total dysfunction.

The question is whether the Offense can do better than what KC did against the Denver Defense that seemed to, at least against KC, be gaining back some of what they were acclaimed to be. Surely, Payton has work to do, but the Packers seem to be what he needs to help him in his endeavor.

The Packers have 6 1'st round draftees on its Defense, and not one is Jet material. The last one was perhaps Matthews, and he burned out after a few seasons after steroid allegations became huge in the NFL, and he became Fabio.

You can't draft Fred Astaire dancers and expect them to play James Cagney gangsters.

4 points
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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:20 pm

The Packers have 8 1st round draft picks on defense, but whose counting.

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Qoojo's picture

October 18, 2023 at 06:40 pm

It's like playing the bears. No matter how good the packers look, it's still against one of the worst teams in nfl. Then if they struggle or lose,...

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packerbackerjim's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:00 am

In 1961, my dad drove us to Western NY to see his parents and siblings, and went to a Bills-NY Titans game at old War Memorial Stadium. That aside, the D underperforms and the Offense does not play complementary football. It has long been the case GB does not play to the physical level of great teams. You are what you emphasize.

5 points
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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:23 pm

You remember a game in 1961?.....Damn!

NICE....That is an automatic thumbs up

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packerbackerjim's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:37 pm

It was my first football game I had attended. Went to Crosley Field in 1956 for my first baseball game. First NBA game was also Lew Alcindor’s first.

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NFLfan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:08 am

Jets Defense has 7-8 Pro-Bowl caliber players right now:
The GM/coaches choose wisely and develop well.

-LB Jermaine Johnson
-The Williams Bros. Quinnen and Quincy
-LB Bryce Huff
-CJ Moseley
-Sauce Gardner
-Quinton Jefferson
-Franklin-Myers

just to name a few. No PB'ers on the Packers...Jaire-meh, Gary-??

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:56 am

Clark, Gary, Walker, Alexander, Douglas are all pro bowl caliber players.

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Bitternotsour's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:08 am

Fact check: True.

Not far behind, Preston and Campbell. Plenty of talent on that D. The issue is culture and a fish rots from the head.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 01:07 pm

Yeah, Campbell was an All pro a couple of years ago. Preston is very reliable veteran. He is a very good player as well.

There definitely is plenty of talent. Its just putting that talent in the best position to succeed. I don't believe that person is in place.

1 points
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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:27 pm

I always get a kick out of the word 'caliber'

I can remember 4 years ago Packer fans down the hall saying (ad nauseum).....
The Packers have a Championship caliber team, or...the Packers have a Super Bowl caliber team.

You don't have, what you don't have.
There are no trophies givin out for losing NFCCG's

So what am i reading now, some guys who are Pro Bowl caliber.
Should we say almost Pro Bowl caliber?
Is that like.... almost pregnant

Sorry.

1 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:55 pm

"Jets Defense has 7-8 Pro-Bowl caliber players right now:
The GM/coaches choose wisely and develop well."

The Jets last made the playoffs in 2010. In 64 seasons, they've made the playoffs 14 times. Pretty sure that's not what "choose wisely and develop well" looks like.

4 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:32 pm

there you go again stomping all over a perfectly good narrative.

0 points
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NFLfan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 10:53 am

LaFleur is best friends with Saleh yet he seems to show little curiosity as to what Saleh or other successful defensive minds do to make a Defense great. I really don't think he thinks about the Defense nor the ST's. He seems preoccupied with his Offensive schemes but does not have the vision, curiosity, intellect (?) to change it up or increase his scope.
Neither Murphy nor Gute seem to want to rattle his cage. Something is terribly wrong over there.

5 points
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Since'75's picture

October 18, 2023 at 03:50 pm

Yea brother, that sounds a lot like when McCarthy was only involved in the offensive play calling.

Remember when Mathews took himself out of the NFCCG against Seattle with 5 minutes left because he thought the win was a lock?

After the game, McCarthy was asked by a reporter about it but.....

McCarthy DIDN'T KNOW Mathews took himself out.

Just clueless.

1 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:23 pm

dont even bring up that game!!!

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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 05:24 pm

maybe friends but didnt Saleh can MLF's brother....

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croatpackfan's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:07 am

I understand you Al. And have no complaint, as lately (last season and last 3 games this season) it was hard to watch Packers. I must say Packers D overplayed Packers O for a lot, but that was at pathetic level...

Leader of the team is the one who establish culture of the team. Unfortunately, Packers ended with soft man with little if any leadership qualities. Last time I had spark of hope that MLF had it in himself was that decision to kick the field goal instead to go on 4th and goal vs Bucs at the 2020 NFCCG. Later the decision was exposed to be made out of fear, not out of believe in his team. Watching how FPQB taking over the team that was to be his with little or no resistance from HC was more thasn humiliating. I admit to myself that I was wrong (I now understand why FPQB was changing so many play calls on the line of schrimage) believing that it was one of the problems why Packers often played in so disarray on offense. Still, I believe it would be better for Packers future if FPQB exposed MLF inadequacy to be play caller or HC.

There is many ways for job to be done properly. But every way needs to be execute with persistence, understanding and steadiness.
When players do not understand what his coach requests from them, they will not be able to execute their job properly. If players understand their roles, than never ever would Preston Smith be ion coverage of Davante. More adequate player will swap his position with Preston in the blink of the eye (and that is just one example!).

If this is only this season, I believe all of us will survive it, but if this will become "standard" there will be many young players whose talent and NFL career will be ruined. Management (and I am looking at you Mark "WANI" Murphy) should look out for all of their employees, not just the ones on the top!

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Since'61's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:18 am

Two key issues for the Packers. First is their decision making/hiring process. MMs decision to make the GM, the HC and the Cap guru equals in terms of reporting to him has led to numerous poor decisions for the team including wrecking the salary cap and numerous not so great draft choices. An example is that much has been made about Gute's recent receiving draft picks but the reality is that the receivers taken over the last 2 drafts became absolutely necessary because none of the receivers that he drafted since 2018 are still with the team. What does that tell us about Gute's ability to draft receiving talent? There are numerous other draft examples and decisions that I could add here but I've covered them in numerous pervious posts over the years. The biggest was and still is MMs decision to hire MLF after one two hour interview. WTF???

Second key issue is leadership. Where is it? Who is it?? I don't see any leadership coming from the coaching staff which is where it needs to begin. I haven't seen any yet this season from the players on the field. I had expected to see some on field leadership from Clark and/or Alexander but I see both of them fading in that regard. Maybe Campbell but he's injured now. Preston Smith has been solid but I don't see the players rallying around him. Rashon Gary, maybe but while he has played well I'm not getting that leadership vibe from him, at least not yet. He's playing for his next contract wherever that might be and I can't blame him for that.

FO decision making, weak coaching and no leadership are hurting this team before they even take the field. Maybe it will begin to turn around this week at Denver. Get a win, stack some success, build some confidence and maybe some leadership and a team identity will evolve as the season continues. 12 games left is plenty of time for this season to look more positive than it does now. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61

3 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:24 pm

good post, exactly what I was thinking when MLF was hired so quickly..."WTF" ...who is this kid?? All these teams wanted a young guru from the Shanahan coaching tree...some are working out, some arent...it was "the thing to do" at the time...

1 points
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splitpea1's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:26 am

The Jets defense had 3 INTs and 12 PDs despite their two starting CBs being out, so these guys are coached to be in position to make plays instead of being passive and waiting for damage to be done first.

3 points
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Qoojo's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:50 am

I think the packers defense has the players and the talent to be good. They are playing better this year, but still exposed and too weak against run.

Without AR, this is like MLF's first year as HC. I keep thinking back to Love's first game starting, and MLF was not prepared for blitzes. I really questioned how smart MLF was. MLF's HC record is mostly due to getting AR interested, engaged, and motivated. Defense and special teams still sucked.

I have been waiting to see if MLF figures it out and improves, but the last game had me start the clock on MLF's tenure. I think Rich B would make a better HC than MLF. I think Stenovich was better as OL coach too.

2 points
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HarryHodag's picture

October 18, 2023 at 11:53 am

Aaron Rodgers caught a break by getting hurt early. He would have eventually been hurt behind a mediocre to bad Jets offensive line. I always stand amazed at the legions of national media dopes and fans who think all you need is a great quarterback and it's a sure Super Bowl win. I always point to the 49'ers who have a guy at quarterback that everyone passed for SEVEN rounds. They could be in the Super Bowl. How is that possible? Along with the Eagles and Dolphins they have great offensive line play. It is also a key reason why Jordan Love has struggled at times because of anemic blocking.
The Jets will ride the defense as far as it goes. If Wilson can improve and they get a balanced attack, the Jets still could be a factor.

-1 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 18, 2023 at 12:21 pm

the o line is just one of the reasons for Loves struggles...holding onto the ball too long, not being accurate, not reading the defense, its more than just the line play...

-1 points
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HarryHodag's picture

October 18, 2023 at 01:36 pm

"Holding onto the ball too long" is a judgement call. He's constantly under pressure(again contrast with 49'ers) and it's also a function of receivers not getting it done soon enough.

It's far too early(Love has started a total of 6 games for the Packers) to make a call. The Packers offense is struggling because of rookie-or inexperienced-mistakes and overall under-achieving play by most of the line with the exception of Jenkins.

3 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 18, 2023 at 02:27 pm

Grew up in CT. Yankee fan and Packer Fan from start. My brother was a Johnny U Colts fan until Namath came along. Obviously I've taken my share of grief from him even over the last 20 years, but a couple of years ago I had to tell him. Don't give up. And the reason even though they have squandered decades worth of high picks ,too many to even count. They at least finally have a coach to kick their ass. That is what they always lacked and That is why they are good again. His dream is for them to win a SB before he dies. But I could care less. Watching the new Rodgers in NY is nauseating. My dream is for one day another Lombardi ,Starr,Ray or Davis to appear. But for now...

We need a new coach, even if it's is one who appears to have rage issues. I prefer the Holmgren Reid variety.

1 points
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Lphill's picture

October 18, 2023 at 08:10 pm

Lefluer and Barry are better suited to be position coaches and that’s it , the less responsibility the better.

3 points
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Oppy's picture

October 19, 2023 at 05:59 am

Ability to handle adversity.

Over the years, many posters at CHTV have lamented the Packers' inability to stand up like men and handle adversity, whether it be overcoming injuries, a slow start, bad calls, you name it. The packers are front runners, the packers are a finesse team, the Packers can't take a punch and come back with resolve to best their opponent.

A great number of Packers fans here at CHTV show such an amazing lack of ability to handle the slightest adversity that I feel it should disqualify them from ever commenting on overcoming adversity. Such a wishy-washy, soft group that absolutely loses their ever-loving minds at the first sign of adversity.

Packers are 2-3. Less than 1/3 of the season. So many knee jerks, nay sayers, any-which-way-the-wind-blows and sky is fallings around here, I'm glad most of you aren't in anyway connected with the Packers, especially as players or coaches.. we'd never get anywhere because at the first sign of adversity we'd scrap everything and start from zero again.

There's one thing I am confident of, the Packers are hard at work and aren't throwing it all away, they're putting their noses to the grindstone to find a way to put it back on track, like every other NFL team does when they face adversity.

So many of you people are running around like chickens with your heads cut off. Frankly, carrying on like god damned vikings fans. VIKINGS FANS. You're the ones that are soft, coddled by a generation of relatively worry-free football. Collect yourselves and see where the season takes us.

-2 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

October 19, 2023 at 11:12 am

I don't believe posters here are unable to handle adversity, I do believe that many here have started to accept that there are legitimate issues that need to be vocal about, and not placated by tucking them under their pillows. It doesn't diminish their fandom, in fact, it's a necessary staple to one's fandom to be able to call out the wrong, inept people and play. I've said it here many times, the best fan is the one who doesn't ignore faults and isn't afraid to bring them to light. Nobody here has given up on the team, they just won't accept the play, coaching that has been placed before them, or the lack of effort to reverse such. We don't know what goes on in the meeting rooms. We can only go by the play on the field and the Coaching decisions during the games. So far, it isn't something to cheer or cover up with blind-optimism, but with fans demanding better by bringing the faults to light.

1 points
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Fubared's picture

October 19, 2023 at 09:58 am

You almost described the Vikes defense. Agressive, swarm to the ball, all over the place you think they have 15 on the field. Rarely does a receiver catch and run, they are gang tackled right away. Their D has kept them in games and I still think they are over the hurdle and ready to make a statement just like the Jets.
Ya the Packers have no identity to compare to the Jets d. Seems like a bunch of guys all playing separate games.
When you best defender doesnt tackle but tries to use his shoulder to knock down a guy and misses badly, your in trouble. You can only blame Barry, Pettine and Capers so much.
They dont draft into the top of the first round where the best defensive players are. They took Gary at what 12 and he was rated a second round pick or late first at the best. You draft so so players you get so so play. Not to mention speed, this D lacks speed at key positions in linebackers corners.

0 points
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Oppy's picture

October 19, 2023 at 09:46 pm

Vikings suck.

0 points
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