shit cake says it all. relieve the chef of his duties and call Servepro to clean up the kitchen.

Good takes as always, and thank you for getting through the article without using some variation of the "not-so-special teams" pun.

I suppose the best remedy to get through the rest of the season would be to use higher quality players on special teams. But then, when they had Randall Cobb field a punt a few weeks ago, he muffed it, and it was MVS who muffed the onside kick. It's surprising that they can't find anyone better than Malik Taylor to return kickoffs and Amari Rodgers to return punts. Both of them have been awful all year.

Good point about in-game adjustments. With some previous coaches, I've had the impression that making in-game adjustments was simply impossible for them.

Yeah, why not have Aaron Jones catch passes over the middle? He's only 5' 9", and he often has to leap for those sideline passes. Sometimes when he does that, he gets creamed by a defender. In the middle of the field, he could catch the ball comfortably and make full use of his elusiveness to gain yards after the catch.

Regarding the terrible ST play: it seems like everyone has a lot of ideas including getting rid of the special teams coach now and replacing him. I did not like that idea earlier but changed my mind after this last game. My thinking is: how much worse can it get?

In order to do this, they have to find the right person and he may not exist at this point in time. I read where someone said we should get the best person from the college ranks and put him in that position. I don't agree and is a recipe for disaster by doing that in season.

Now I feel that the best way to go is to take an inventory of what is working the best in ST's and what is a disaster. I don't think you can look at this issue and get all things fixed immediately. I think the punter is fine even though he had one bad punt. So don't make any changes to that position. I also think Mason Crosby is doing okay. We need to be patient with him. He only made one mistake this game which I admit was a complete surprise. I think the main thing we need to do is to find someone that can return kickoffs and punts such as Swervin Ervin. I guess the other thing is to do what LaFleur stated and that is upgrade some of the personnel as well.

Hopefully, this can improve as this is a sure fire way to get beat in the playoffs!

Don't know how bad Taylor is hurt, but why not bring Ervin back to do kick returns for rest of season, I believe he is still a FA!

I have also never seen such an all pervasively awful performance from a Special Teams unit. That was the football exemplification of the proverbial headless chicken. For that reason I can’t understand the Drayton apologists, starting with LaFleur.

Good comments about the adjustments, the coaching staff has been doing that very well throughout the year. Solid coaching is a reason other than Arod that they have lost only 9 times in 3 years.

Regarding your thoughts on a “dubious” call on the kickoff I think it was a very heads up play by Douglas. He faked out the gunner in thinking he was going to push him out of the playing field. At that point, Douglas threw his hands up and sucked in his gut so not to touch the gunner and the players momentum wouldn’t let him stay in the playing field, thus the penalty was called. It was the right call and not questionable. One of the few bright spots on ST’s that saved us 7 points.

Having gone through 3 special teams coaches and not moved the needle past the "crap" threshold, you got to wonder if something bigger is happening. I worry that the Packer front office gets too fixated on specific player attributes such as RAS or height and it handicaps positions. Drafting highly athletic guys who don't have high football instincts means you have players who just don't get it. Guys who can run and jump but can understand the assignment or strategy will ultimately handicap the unit. Just a theory.

Packers have surrendered four scoring plays from scrimmage of over 45 yards in the last two games. Gotta tighten that up.

LeFluer needs to send a message. Poor play won't be tolerated. Either Sit them, or cut them. Branden Bostick? Jeremy Ross? Montgomery? Etc. The special teams showed; " trouble is on the horizon again." ( Even Ugly threats. ) And there is only one clear answer. Their job is to get it DONE.

Yah, special teams suck. Yet they seldom cost us the game. My guess it’s more of a player issue than a coach one. The players on teams are constantly changing. Ultimately it’s on the players who don’t get reps. Some teams have studs on ST’s and often play starters. GB has done that in the past but instead injuries have kept that roster in flux. Changing coaches has not worked, so doing it again in the season won’t make a difference this year. Throwing another coaching body in there will do little to change lack of smarts and talent. One thing that I believe is Matt’s fault is his short practice’s. He could be using that time to devote to special teams.

As much as I appreciate the run that this team is on, I am guarding my expectations for this team. The depletion of our O-line is problematic for an Aaron Rodgers run offense - especially when his toe limits his mobility. If the makeshift line can run block and if Rodgers promotes the run, this offense can adapt. If not, Rodgers forcing the ball to Davante Adams will end in Tampa Bay. We will see what coaching and injuries dictate down the stretch.
Baltimore will tell us what we can expect from this "adaptive" offense.

Wow -
Yeah, so what else can you really say about it. They can only go up from here? Because I don't know now how it could get any worse.
My question is what was worse on the list?
I think the Taylor muff out of bounds was probably the worse. He simply lets it go, its out of bounds and they get the ball at the 40. Instead he tries to field it and they start out at the 5. One question I have with it was he properly coached how to handle that situation?

On the bright side -
Crosby outside of the kick that went out of bounds, was much, much better. That whole operation seemed to be much better.

Adjustments -
I completely agree about the Packers adjustments. I think LaFleur and the offense have always done a good job of adjusting. The difference this year I think is Joe Barry. He seems to make better adjustments then how Pettine used to.

Passing Jones -
With no more Tonyan, Cobb out for a while, they need to get Jones more involved in the passing game. He is a dynamic player and if they can get him the ball in space our offense has become that much more dangerous.

Speaking of angle routes -
My question in this situation, is why are they playing Black in front of Douglas? I'm not saying Douglas would have prevented that from happening, but with the way he has been playing, why is he off the field for Black?

Pass Pro -
I would like to add Rodgers seemed to get the ball out a little faster after Turner went down. Whether it was by design or Rodgers simply settled into the game or he understood the situation, he did a better job of getting it out quicker on most plays.

LaFleur coach of the year -
The part I hate is how Rodgers is the sole reason why this team is good. People that have that take are lazy and don't watch the offense. They don't watch the play designs and concepts. They don't watch the adjustments made during the game and for the players they lost. LaFleur deserves a lot more credit then what he has gotten.

It falls on LaFluer to get intimately involved as he is not making a coaching change. The Punter is fine, no confidence in punt coverage, all falls on ‘Bojo’ to force fair catches. No confidence in kick-off coverage, falls on Crosby to get touchback. Zero confidence in XP and FG units, including Crosby, as stated he hardly ever splits the uprights.

Hard to argue the belief some have that this glaring weakness will cost the Packers a Playoff game and end another season on ‘what if’. Can’t have 1 of the three major phases of the game be this poor. It is a cancer to momentum and field position.

After an initial struggle Nijman stalemated Guinn the rest of the way. Amazing how well this O line is performing. As far as Jones , teams are aware of his pass catching ability and are sending coverage his way. Yes, change his route pattern, put him in the slot, run a reverse, and use him as a wildcat QB.

We must do better on Special Teams play. If not, it could be our demise in the playoffs to the Super Bowl this year.

Perhaps we should evaluate the special teams play by teams like the Ravens and the Patriots who year after year are among the top special teams in the league. They have demonstrated that it can be done and we have to learn how to do it.

What is winning a Super Bowl worth to a franchise? If we have to spend top dollar to get a special teams coach to get it done....open that pocket book.

One of my dad's favorite sayings was "You can't argue with stupid." The ST teams unit is made up of football players who have played this game at the highest level. They know how to tackle. The problem on KO and punt returns seems to be the Pack's ST rarely touches the receiver until he's made a substantial return.

I see players throw their hands up in frustration. My guess is they were told where to be, rather than told to bring the guy down. I saw EQ simply let a runner go by him without making much effort at making the tackle. It looked like he didn't want to give up the position he was told to maintain. This "maintain" mindset can work against making tackles when they're right there.

There must be something to ST coaching or there wouldn't be coaches who are successful for stretches of time, meaning they succeed regardless of player changeover. At the moment, our coverage units just seem to be lost in space, "stupidly" running around like Keystone Kops.

Drayton is probably very well-liked having been on the team for a number of years. They want to give him a chance. But he should have never been hired and now should be fired. Immediately. You don't gamble on an unknown at a position of weakness when you're fielding a SB contender. The Barry hire also seemed too big a gamble but seems to have worked out. At least he had experience. Drayton was a complete unknown. The stupid is on LaFleur and Gute.

Unless Swervin Ervin looks like Eddie Lacy, we better pick him up. As for Mason, I think he’s back on track. However, his ability to kick it out of the endzone in cold weather has been an issue for a couple of years.

Nice piece Al. But the topic was somewhat easy to pick. I read one opinion: "Usually, when one aspect of a team struggles as consistently as Packers special teams have struggled, it's a talent issue." What do you think?

Maybe it is not on M. Drayton... And, playing starters will not solve the issue. There was sevral starters that contribute on ST, like Lazard for example...

MLF has stood by Drayton, now he needs to get results. He has taken the STs on his shoulders. If he is not going to make a move on Drayton then he needs to step up and get the STs straightened out.

The HC is always responsible for the performance of the entire team. MLF is doing a great job with the offense. He made a solid choice in Barry as DC. But he is looking bad on STs. If it doesn't get corrected he should not win Coach of the Year assuming that he is in the running. Worse yet if our STs do not get corrected it's going to cost the Packers in a playoff game. Better teams are going to exploit our STs. At the least they will win the field position battle and turn our ST gaffes into scores. At least get the fundamentals like catching the ball and maintaining their lanes in coverage. It should not be this hard or this bad.

It's on MLF now. No excuses. Thanks, Since '61

The only realistic action for STs at this juncture is damage control. The Team is far too deep into the schedule for any significant changes. You gotta dance with the girl you brought.

Special Teams is just a broken record at this point, a constant repeat of special teams failures and miscues.

JANIS!

This special teams performance looks less like a freak accident or off day and more like a squad that collectively has lost respect for their coach and are playing as bad as they can to intentionally get him shit canned. I cannot believe this performance, and this season, void of any course correction and continually spiraling into new surprising depths of "shit" is mere coincidence or ineptitude.

Hope LaFleur does whatever it takes to improve ST, including inserting some starters if need be. Against a better team like the Bucs, Cardinals etc, we probably lose this game.

I struggle with our decision to keep Mo. I surely hope we are not revisiting this decision in the playoffs at some point.

I echo everyone's desire to give Ervin a call. At least bring him in for a tryout for optics sake.

With all the injuries on the OL I wonder if we place a call to Wagner or Veldheer to see how much they may have left in the tank.

Not sure if Lamar will be playing this weekend, but hope we pull the same Defensive playbook out of the Arizona game where we kept a focus on containing Murray. Even a hobbled Jackson is someone you are going to have to worry about and his ability to burn you for large chunks with his feet.

So the 2 most egregious things happening on ST play are:

1) Muffed catches or decision making from the returner\catcher - resulting in muffs or poor decisions

2) Poor positioning of return defenders (lane management) - resulting in poor containment of the returner and consistent yardage (or worse)

OK CHTV brains trust - How do the Packers solve these?

I have to agree with other comments here that MLF should not be a coach of the year candidate given the utter failure of STs. The head coach is ACCOUNTABLE for the entire team performance - not just the offense and defense. Its becoming clear that LaFleur's ego is getting in the way of releasing Drayton as it was he who promoted him. In my mind, that does not qualify him as the best head coach in football.

So, in my mind, this STs fiasco is on MLF to this point. If he can't make a coaching change, then he should at least allow (1) Putting more starters on STs and (2) personally help Drayton in drills and schemes. On this latter point, at least he will have a more intimate look at the problem versus accepting it as it stands now.

Good points all Al. Outside of echoing most what has been said. ST is an outright mess now, and Lafleur does not have many moves other than putting starters in the skill positions now that the Packers have entered the last part of the season. Like everyone else, I also think that the breakdown in all three phases of ST is a coaching issue. One that will not be fixed until next season. (Lafleur is going to get his 'come to Gute' moment over both Barry and Drayton after the season is over. But Gute does not escape his failure on the personnel side either) What surprised me was how unready both the defense and offense were for the unscouted looks the Bears threw at them. Teams are going to empty their playbooks now that they are in the final stage of the regular season. If the Bears has a slightly deeper bench, this could have been a very bad loss for the Packers, so call it a wake-up for Lafleur and company. Beyond that, injuries are starting to effect the Packers game plan in all three phases of the game. How Lafleur and Gute handles that...

Al, check out the Bengals game against the 49ers. The Packers continue to fire the ST coordinator and then promote his assistant. It's WAY past time we went outside of the organization and brought in someone new.

Am I the only one who thinks the Bears were purposely exploiting weaknesses in GB's ST's? Especially on the TD return, the receiver went one way to draw the defenders to that side of the field, then the Bears set up a "picket line" for the very few guys who were actually maintaining their assignments, and ran untouched for the TD. That looked like a designed play, implemented after watching film of the Packers and spotting some weaknesses. That the ST's was only responsible for seven points, rather than 21, was more a matter of luck and questionable officiating. Because if those other two TD's had counted, rather than being called back, the Bears would have been driving for a game winning FG at the end of the game, rather than trying desperately trying to score fast and often.

Field position. It's often ignored by fans but is critical to the success of both the offense and defense. How many times this season has the offense started deep in their own territory and conversely the defense begins with the ball near midfield? This is a key critical failure of the special teams play.

I think the Packers simply don't prioritize it. The theory appears to be that the offense and defense are good enough to overcome shortcomings elsewhere. I'm not certain that coaching is the cure though it is a factor. If coaching changes were so positive why is it we've had several changes since Ron Zook and why do the teams still suck year after year?

I tend to think that the special team players aren't necessarily up to the challenge. All of them, I'm sure, would much rather be playing regular snaps. People looking at replays note that the players go out of position often. Special teams require a lot of discipline. Your instincts say 'go to the ball' but if you do and the other team sees the gap you just left then it's off to the races.

I've often wondered how great kickers in college come to Green Bay and eventually become awful. Crosby is the exception but he is starting to fade. A story left uncovered is why the Packers would cut their long snapper and bring in a guy cold from the street who was awful? Why must the punter be the kick holder?
It would be worth it to have Love or Benkert be the holder. Yes it takes up a place on the roster, but a QB also gives them an option for a fake kick which the defense must note.

This long of time with such bad special teams makes me think the Packers simply don't care which is a bit puzzling.

Solution:
1. Sign Ervin.
2. Bring in consulting coach to help Mo get through season.
3. Fire Mo after season.

Let's face it: "special teams" is not the highest priority for the Packers. They expect to win with their offense and defense. Special teams is an afterthought by comparison. Just look at the coaching resources they put into their "three legged stool." https://www.gamblingsites.com/news/assessing-green-bay-packers-nfl-coach...

The offense and defense each have a coordinator but there are also 7 more assistants for each covering different positions and phases of the offensive and defensive game. Special teams has one and two assistants.

It's not quite fair or accurate to consider special teams as a single "leg" of a 3-legged stool either. There are separate and distinct areas to "special teams." There's placekicking; which has 5 subsets involving field goals and extra points, kickoffs, and blocking for kicks and covering kickoffs downfield.

Then there's punting, protection on punts and downfield coverage.

Kick and punt returns are also different and distinct from each other and for both there are different blocking issues.

The Packers tend to put players who are back ups on offense and defense on their special teams because they have to cover those parts of the game and don't want to risk starters on them. But when injuries occur they have to reshuffle that deck, which leads to lack of cohesion.

I don't know how much time each week they can put into special teams either. With so many issues, so much change in personnel and few coaches it can't be enough.

The Packers have switched out ST coordinators several times in just the last few years with no real improvement overall in any. The offense and defense, in that order, are what carries the team. Special teams don't have to be special; they just can't be bad.

The Packers really haven't had great special teams since the '96 Super Bowl XXXI team; when Nolan Cromwell was coordinator and they had Chris Jacke kicking, Craig Hentrich punting, Desmond Howard & Don Beebe returning and Travis Jervey was a Pro Bowl "Special Teamer."

They've done well with their kickers; just 3 over the Past 32 years: Jacke, Ryan Longwell and Mason Crosby.

But they haven't had a dynamic field flipping-game changing returner since Allen Rossum left 18 years ago. And I can't count the continual twists and turns with punters since Hentrich left in 1998.

Even if you find a Devon Hester the Packers aren't going to take up roster or cap space on a returner who doesn't do other things for the team.

They switched out punters once again just at the start of this season and in-season were still changing up the long snapper-holder-kicker lineup.

I think the best we can hope for is that they don't lose a crucial remaining game or a playoff by some calamity in the kicking game or breakdown on kick or punt coverage. But those issues involve stressing and doing fundamentals, like staying in your lane, blocking and tackling, which pro coaches and players ought to be able to do.