Cory's Corner: Appreciate The Chiefs' Success
(But it's OK to also have steam coming out of your ears.)
The Chiefs are in the middle of an incredible run of greatness.
Kansas City has advanced to the conference title game five straight years and has advanced to the Super Bowl in three of the last four.
Hate to say it, but one has to wonder: Could that have been the Packers? The talking heads today were out in full force declaring that Patrick Mahomes is the best quarterback ever after he threw for 326 yards and two touchdowns on an injured ankle as the Chiefs punched their ticket to Super Bowl LVII.
And I get all that, I really do. Mahomes can make the off-platform throws. Mahomes can make the throws from weird angles. Mahomes can scramble when he needs to — as evidenced by the five yard scamper coupled with an unnecessary roughness penalty with 17 seconds left to ice the game.
The Packers, on the other hand, have been to the conference title game five times and have won one Super Bowl in the last 13 years. In that timespan, Aaron Rodgers has won four Most Valuable Player awards.
Rodgers’ career passer rating of 103.6 is only eclipsed by, you guessed it, Mahomes’ 105.7. But to be fair, Mahomes has only been a starter for five seasons, while Rodgers just finished up his 15th season as a starter.
The Chiefs are in the middle of a winning eclipse thanks to excellent coaching, strong roster development and impeccable team chemistry.
The Packers had those things dating back to 2009 when they were ranked No. 3 in offensive scoring and that matriculated into the Lombardi Trophy the following season. From 2009-2014, the lowest the Packers were ranked in offensive scoring was No. 10 — and that was the year they won Super Bowl XLV. Think about that. In six seasons, the Packers’ average ranking was 4.6. That’s incredible — mainly because the rules have tightened for defenses since then.
I know it’s a broken record whenever people bring up the number of missed opportunities, but the Packers have a Yeti cooler full of them. There are so many teams that are looking for that franchise quarterback — and the Packers have had two of them back-to-back.
The Chiefs also are proving the myth that it’s not about the receiver. Kansas City didn’t bring back top wideout and speedster Tyreek Hill and actually got better. The Chiefs were ranked No. 4 in offensive scoring in 2021 and followed that up with a No. 1 ranking this year, even though the running game has been nonexistent.
So appreciate the Chiefs’ success, but I also give you permission to grind your teeth. In the NFL, the window is short, so you have to capitalize when the moment is there.
The Packers didn’t and now the only thing that’s left are a bunch of what ifs as we all wait and see who the next franchise quarterback will be at 1265 Lombardi Ave.
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (107)
NickPerry
January 31, 2023 at 07:10 am
Mahomes is great, no doubt about it, but NOBODY is going to slow down the Eagles this season. The Chiefs when this is all said and done will lose another SB IMO.
The Chiefs actually surprised me a bit this season. I thought the offense would drop off quite a bit but it didn't. Maybe those BIG plays for 80 yards aren't happening as often, but Mahomes is SO GOOD he CAN take the offense down the field in those 15 play drives. You know, those drives Joe Barry bets an opposing offense won't be able to do consistently, Mahomes DOES it consistently. I sure wish the Packers could see the HUGE BENEFIT of having a great TE.
In 2 weeks people will start talking about Mahomes, Andy Reid, and the Chiefs blowing these opportunities. But this season it's not about blowing anything. The Eagles are a machine, both offensively and Defensively. The BIGGEST reason why is they have a QB who is still on a rookie contract AND is really good.
3 of the 4 teams playing this past weekend were lead by QBs on rookie deals which if you have one is a HUGE advantage. The 49ers with Lance first then Purdy. The Bengal's with Burrow, and the Eagles with Hurts. The Eagles also have a really good GM and an owner who doesn't get in the way, but will spend, spend, and spend some more to win. The Eagles resigned Kelce, waived and resigned Fletcher Cox, resigned Derrick Barnett and Anthony Harris. Signed James Bradbury and then go get Linvell Joseph and Nadamukong Suh and that's just SOME of what they did. Oh yeah, AND they fleeced the Titans for AJ Brown and traded for CJ Gardner-Johnson...Are you shitting me!!!
They get to do all that because of a QB on a rookies contract, a GM who knows how to build a SB roster, and a owner, a REAL owner who stays the fuck out of the way...Are you listening Mark Murphy??
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 07:31 am
Rock on Nick! " I sure wish the Packers could see the HUGE BENEFIT of having a great TE."
Add that to the Eagles/Chiefs lines of scrimmage and you're in the Super Bowl. Yes, neither team ignored the LOS and actually emphasized it. And the Chiefs don't even have a QB on a rookie contract.
Packers1985
February 01, 2023 at 12:08 am
First all you guys forget the fact that their Oline ranks no1 in PFF pass protection. Secondly their main heart of the offense is Kelce and they brought in the experienced wr2(Juju) sand wr3 (MVS). The offense's success always start's with a good oline esply the center(which they got a top center) and then Wr's who are experienced and young and they got those too. Not to mention they brought in tooner and they have hardman. Whom to packer's have ?
But Props to Mahomes dont want to take away anything from the guy even with a bad ankle he made plays.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 01, 2023 at 04:18 am
Howie Roseman makes Russ Baal look like a piker. He has been mangling the team's salary cap for at least 5 seasons.
Success changes all perceptions (or should that be, realities?). Philly won a super bowl in 2017. Roseman's bet on Carson Wentz went south. Philly took the largest dead money cap hit in history ($33.8M dead money hit in 2021, which was18.52% of the cap that year) but fleeced Indy out of a 3rd and a first round pick (16th IIRC).
The super bowl year was followed by 9-7 and another 9-7 season (that time with a one and done playoff appearance). The 4-11-1 season in 2020 got some murmuring going.
And now Philly is in another super bowl. All is forgiven. Have to say while he misses Roseman also makes some shrewd moves. Another GM whose pro personnel moves are much better than his drafting.
Philly is $4M under the cap. Their list of UFAs is long and expensive looking. Javon Hargrave (likely gets $20M+ AAV), CB Bradbury ($17M AAV), Garner-Johnson ($14M), Brandon Graham ($11M + he is ancient), Fletcher Cox, Robert Quinn, Gardner Minshew, Miles Sanders ($7M). There is no one who can be cut to save cap. It has to be extensions, and even there only a couple of guys still have big cash payments available. They are going to lose some players.
A super bowl appearance fixes all. Heck, if GB had won in 2016 and appeared in a super bowl in 2020 or 2021, I'd be figuring out how to keep AR, deal with a $68M dead money hit if he plays in 2023, and finding ways to retain our free agents. But GB didn't do that. GB made a bet on AR and his contract. If they trade AR and take the $40.3M dead money hit, that will be almost 18% (17.97%) of the 2023 cap limit. Same sized bet, and both lost the bet, but one team was able to overcome it. Perhaps Gute can do that in 2023 or 2024.
egbertsouse
January 31, 2023 at 07:22 am
Mahomes made MVS look good and was throwing to receivers who had more tackles than catches in their careers. Doesn’t he know he is supposed to ignore these guys for 3-4 years until he develops the requisite “trust.” He doesn’t seem to get that he was supposed to run around for 10 seconds looking only at Kelce and then either throw a 50 yard pass into double coverage or throw it out of bounds while giving the stink eye to all the receivers?
I hate it when players don’t know the rules.
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 08:56 am
Yeah, and doesn't he know he's supposed to ignore wide open receivers in the middle of the field in case they tip a ball for an interception? It's always better to throw deep into double-coverage or out-of-bounds or to a covered checkdown than take the chance of ruining his stats with a pick. Sheesh, Mahomes doesn't do anything right.
Packerpasty
January 31, 2023 at 09:26 am
Mahomes throws deep and into double coverage a lot..he did it during this past game, his WR and TE make some great catches, sometimes they don't...lets not let the hatred take over your intelligence..
Untylu1968
January 31, 2023 at 09:49 am
But he also throws the ball all over the field and isn't picky about who he's throwing it to. It's not hate towards Rodgers, it's just facts. Aaron was one the man, but age along with his price tag, are no longer what's best for the packers
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 01:09 pm
Definitely more Favre than Rodgers as I see it.
Bitternotsour
January 31, 2023 at 10:12 am
also, their route running was substandard. 12 would have been throwing around laptops and pointing to the sidelines with incriminating glares.
Mahomes has eclipsed Rodgers, not only on the field, but in the all important endorsement field. Time for Rodgers to pack it in.
stockholder
January 31, 2023 at 07:22 am
Love the Second Sentence. 5. years!
You only have to Look at Gutey! From 2018 - present.
You only see Rodgers vs Mahomes.
I see bad drafts, Cap problems, And coaching changes.
Let’s come to the realization that Gutey isn’t TT.
And that Rodgers is still in demand if GMs want him.
Rodgers never had any speedy Wrs and still won MVPs.
But what he didn’t have is KCs Defense.
The packers problems are now internal.
And this shouldn’t be about the next franchise QB.
But GREEN BAY leadership! Fire his ass.
Oppy
January 31, 2023 at 07:49 am
KC allowed 21.5 points per game.
GB allowed 21.8, which is dead middle of the road in 2022.
KC scored 28.7 points per game in 2022. (#1 in the league.)
GB scored 21.8. (#14 in the league)
But it's the defensive failure, that's really the difference, huh?
place Clown emoji here.
stockholder
January 31, 2023 at 09:26 am
It is when they can't get the ball back with 5 min. left,
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 01:23 pm
Flex to prevent the Win...acceptable practice in Packertown, since 2010.
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 02:57 pm
Stockholder.....they play alternating possessions in the NFL, not make it take it. Each team gets an equal number of opportunities, and if they don't do very much with them, it's not quite right to say they should have had one more.
Oppy
January 31, 2023 at 06:05 pm
I know this is really hard for a lot of sports fans to understand-
when you score, or when you prevent a score, doesn't actually have any bearing on the outcome of a game.
All that matters is how much you score, and how little the opponent does.
You are talking about emotions, not about results.
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 02:55 pm
Oppy, that's the song I've been singing for a while now. And averages don't even tell the real story, because of our 9 losses, the three that really stick out were when we scored 7 and lost to Minnesota, 9 and lost to Detroit, and then, with it all on the line against a terrible defense, we put up 16 to the Lions in a 20-16 loss.
We were 8-1 in games where we scored more than 22. So I'd like to fix the offense. Look at the teams remaining: KC and Philly...both with great offenses. They dictate the game with their offense, scoring points and forcing you to keep up, while simultaneously holding onto the ball so you don't have as many chances to do it. That really helps the defense.
We should do the same. Load up on offense before the next season. Improve the offensive line as much as we can. Get a guy that we can line up opposite of Watson. Get a legitimate TE who can get his man blocked AND be a factor in the pass game. Get an RB. Get some complementary guys.
Not impossible at all....especially if we have a high draft choice to work with. Even without, in simulations, the Packers could do a little trading around and get extra picks on Day 2.
Packers1985
February 01, 2023 at 12:15 am
"Look at the teams remaining: KC and Philly...both with great offenses. " What these two teams have in common they strengthened their Oline and signed much needed Wr's that made the difference. Eagles brought in Aj brown and And KC brought in Juju and MVS to compensate Hill and they already have a Goat TE. I see Packer's lacking all three currently quality oline , though i like our wr's for the future but for now they are inexperienced and we dont have TE at all.
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 08:08 am
Rodgers never had speedy receivers? Is that deliberate irony in a game where MVS was the most valuable receiver?
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 08:58 am
stockholder wouldn't recognize irony if it bit him in the butt. so it can't be that.
dobber
January 31, 2023 at 09:26 am
...or sarcasm.
BirdDogUni
January 31, 2023 at 12:38 pm
Or facts...
Packerpasty
January 31, 2023 at 09:28 am
MVS had a great game but did little all year long...kudos to him for stepping up though..
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:35 am
Reminded of Jarret Bush in SB 45 - Bush picked one game to play light's out, and it was that one. When he had to step up, he STEPPED UP. I suspect that MVS will have more than one really good game in him, though.
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 10:01 am
MVS had a great game because the Bengals were trying to take away the more dangerous TE. Imagine taking advantage of what the D is doing? Sounds like complimentary football and making the right adjustments.
Now, when Philly sees what he did and tries to shut down MVS, who's going to get the ball?
PeteK
January 31, 2023 at 10:10 am
Shuster, Toney, Moore, Pacheco, Gray, McKinnon, Hardemon
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 10:57 am
Exactly!
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 01:15 pm
That really doesn’t matter. He is drawing coverage away from others. One of his great benefits to Adams, who was a much better receiver. Pick your poison. But ignore MVS and that’s what tends to happen, which is, of course, why teams do not. Something that frustrated the heck out of me this year was LaFleur’s refusal to put out another guy with enough speed to exploit the coverage of Watson. Cobb and Lazard might get a catch, but they didn’t really damage. So Watson got a group escort and no one else made teams pay for it. Putrid offensive thinking as opposed to how Reid handles his pieces.
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 01:31 pm
That's where I thought Toure could have been exploited, especially after Douds was injured.
Bitternotsour
January 31, 2023 at 10:16 am
jarret bush was a special teams demon, he made play after play. i won't hear any slander on that dude. he bled for our team.
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:00 pm
He was good on ST, but not a very good corner - except in SB 45, when he had to be. Talk about rising to the occasion.
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 11:39 am
Does anybody remember Jordy Nelson was a 100 yard state champ? Or that his college video showed him running past Aqib Talib? Or that he didn’t get caught from behind?
Jordy the Great was fast.
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 12:47 pm
4.41 to 4.51 to 4.62 40 dash at Pro Day. He was faster in high school, then he filled out his frame at 217 lbs.
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 01:19 pm
Nelson threw everyone he played against as well as the analysts when he entered the league. A classic case of timing under actual speed on his pro day. Once he started catching it was gravy.
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 01:26 pm
Precise routes with power. His best events were the 200 and 400 meters, built up speed.
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:10 am
Let's rate this on the Bonkers Scale. Ah, where to start...
Ok, so the article is about the Chiefs and the last five seasons. It reminds us that Mahomes has been a starter for five years and then compares the Chiefs to the Packers over Rodgers' first six years. OK... It compares Rodgers' rating to Mahomes... ok... It does highlight the excellent job that the Chiefs front office and coaching staffs have done... and concludes with the statement that their success is not about having all-world receivers. Good.
This comment? It says that Corey sees only Rodgers vs. Mahomes. Well, there is a single comparison, but no, the article doesn't do this.,, then stockholder talks about 2018-present, which is odd because Corey talks about 2008-2014. And then stockholder talks about Rodgers and Rodgers and Rodgers as is to be expected but he doesn't go on quite as ad nauseum as usual. Well, that's a positive. And he ends by agreeing with the majority of this site that GB's management is the problem. Well, that's a HUGE win for the rest of us. But then he loses it when he writes "Fire his ass." Whose ass should be set on fire is not specified, but given his quite evident hatred of all things Gutekunst - and that he mentions our GM in line 2 of this diatribe - we'd have to conclude it's Gutekunst's ass that needs the Weber treatment. Hmm
Okay, a solid 6 on the Bonkers Scale.
Shit, do I need a life...
stockholder
January 31, 2023 at 09:34 am
You need more than a life Line. The symptoms of CTE include memory loss, confusion, impaired judgment, impulse control problems, aggression, depression, anxiety, suicidality, parkinsonism, and, eventually, progressive dementia. These symptoms often begin years or even decades after the last brain trauma or end of active athletic involvement.
TT had it. And Murphy should have Recognized it.
And why your at it. Explain TT drafting of Spriggs?.
And maybe you'll come to the conclusion.
That TT was ready to move on from over-paid OL.
Gutey pays them. He Over-pays everyone.
PeteK
January 31, 2023 at 10:14 am
Mouth agape and drooling. That was me after our last game loss to Loins. Not funny .
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 08:02 am
What stands out most for me is the coaching. The use of players, not just stars and the overall approach to using what they had in a way that made the most of what was available among the active and healthy. Getting the most from your team through using individuals wisely, strategically to get the best out of your pieces. In turn that gets more from the QB, making it easier not harder.
What stands out to me is therefore the difference in coaching and culture. Had we had that kind of quality plus Rodgers in ‘20 and ‘21 and made use of our pieces close to as well, we might have 2 rings. Instead we have LaFleur. Too late, that era has past. But an insight as to why we couldn’t get over the hump when we had a worthy roster before the cap crunch caught up.
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 08:27 am
Emphasize your strengths to take advantage of your opponents' weaknesses. People in the right place at the right time to take away what the other is doing. Does sound like coaching.
Seems like we've been taking one step forward and two steps back, for over a decade.
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 11:34 am
Steve, you’re normally pretty rational but you’re hyperventilating here.
A decade.
Playoffs, , NFCC,playoffs, playoffs, NFCC, missed, missed (Rodgers injury, the McCarthy stuff, Thompson’s health)
NFCC, NFCC , playoffs, miss. That’s playoffs 70% of the time. We were one of the top 2 teams in the NFC 4 times. We’re a top franchise .
We’re about to trade Rodgers for a pretty good draft pick, his successor is going to play like a top pick who’s been developing for 3 years. The salary cap situation will be resolved. We’re going to be good again next year.
2022 was the season we screwed the pooch twice against one of the worst defenses in the league. Add that to the 7 points we scored in the opener against Minnesota and it was three losses to division opponents, and that cost us.. One decent show of offense in any of those games and we make the playoffs
Don’t succumb to this drumbeat of doom.
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 12:39 pm
I'm may be irrational, but want to win a championship again. I think the Packers have done a swell job. They just might have closed the window on Rodgers winning another with them.
The Lions would love that record of playoff appearances. I just don't think I'll be satisfied till we win a championship.
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 12:47 pm
I'd like to, also. Growing up in the 60s, I thought it was my birthright. Then the Long Dry Spell and the Recovery and now we've won two out of the last 25 Bowls. That's above average.
You've got a 1:32 chance of winning the Super Bowl. If you're a playoff team, that's improved to 1:14. If you make it to the Championship game, you've got a 1:4 chance.
The Rodgers Window you speak of....IMO, that baby closed when he went 0-6 in goal-to-go against Tampa two years ago. But Love's window is just opening.
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 12:50 pm
All right then LH. Next year then.
Johnblood27
January 31, 2023 at 08:28 am
In Green Bay the inmates are running the asylum.
Rodgers runs the Head Coach and the other veteran players are hard on his coattails.
Players decide when they want to practice, which games they want to play, how hard they want to play down to down and then want to pop off about what the GM should be doing.
There is NO accountability for the players performance. Just look at the tackling woes the Packers have had. That is "want to" and coaches holding players accountable. Not enough of that IMO.
When was the last time you saw a GB player benched for his performance? Savage you say? oh yeah, after 3 freaking years of poor play! THAT is NOT accountability and it just reaffirms what the other players already know. There isn't one coach on the staff that has the onions to get in a players grill and/or bench them for poor effort/performance.
Starters start on reputation. Players play the position they deem most beneficial to themselves. These are supposed to be coaching decisions made based upon MERIT, not reputation!
OK, rant over... I need a break.
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:13 am
Given Tonyan's comments, the players also now appear to want to determine who they want to play with. If Rodgers gets to choose, then why can't the rest of them?
BirdDogUni
January 31, 2023 at 12:48 pm
Onions? Grill?
Thanks, now I'm hungry!
Wish the Packers were...
Johnblood27
January 31, 2023 at 05:56 pm
They're a bunch of Hot Dogs!
They better move their buns and catch-up or we will certainly be in a pickle! This bunch is just not cutting the mustard and I will steak my reputation as a poster at CHTV on that!
Swisch
January 31, 2023 at 06:11 pm
Johnblood, I relish good fan comments such as yours.
The thing about this particular comment (the original one in this series) is that you are much harder on the Packers than I am (although I wouldn't be surprised if you're right that the egotistic and entitled attitude of Rodgers is spreading to other veterans.)
I suspect Rodgers is a poison who is sickening the entire roster, and the whole organization.
With the loss of integrity come all sorts of ills, and it's been a trial for me as a fan to watch the apparent dysfunction of a noble franchise that has had my devotion for a half-century and more.
It seems to me the Packers are becoming losers on the field after groveling to Rodgers off the field.
As I've written, Rodgers is the fault line around which the Packers crumble under pressure.
The last three years seem to be good evidence.
stockholder
January 31, 2023 at 09:45 am
What stands out is the 4-3-4.
And the popular switch to the 4-2-5.
A gm that doesn't draft ILBs
or DTs until forced too.???
Gutey started a divide with Love.
And regardless of your belief.
Games are won and lost in the trench.
Did you see KC switch Jones to DE!
Thats Defensive coaching.!!!
Putting your best players in the spot
to make plays.
The packers have had the worst DL
in the NFL during Guteys 5 years.
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 12:28 pm
If anyone should be the next hot HC candidate, it would be Spags.
LeotisHarris
January 31, 2023 at 08:44 am
Unfortunately, there's no shortage of terrible health advice on the internet. Please, if you (or someone you love) have steam coming out of your ears, see a licensed medical professional immediately.
Ear steam can be a sign of multiple serious maladies and could require a colon cleanse or vigorous coining session followed by essential oil treatment. In the wise words of Coach LaFleur, "be smart."
dobber
January 31, 2023 at 09:09 am
Winner!
croatpackfan
January 31, 2023 at 09:12 am
You forgot ayahuasca tea to wake up your inner energy and self love.
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 01:20 pm
Well, we all can't chug Slivovitz for inspiration...
croatpackfan
January 31, 2023 at 03:11 pm
Wrong country my friend. We drink wine, beer and another kind of brandy, made from grapes, not from plum. Serbians are known by Šljivovica (as you wrote Sluvovitz). But I appreciate your try. Cheers...
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 03:42 pm
My friend did graduate work in Croatia, pre-breakup of Yugoslavia. He brought back Slivovitz when he returned. Not a good hangover. I see your point. Not to offend, as I now see Slivovitz production primarily in Serbia.
croatpackfan
January 31, 2023 at 04:51 pm
No, I'm not offended. I'm aware that we were, as Yugolsavia small country, now, as Croatia we are much smaller than before... Croatia has around 3,800.000 citizens, so like small to middle sized town in USA. I'm not chauvinist, rasist or believe that any nation is build from better people than other one. I do not hate Serbs or any nation in the world. You can find everywhere idiots and morons, but also a lot of great people. When you live in small country you can not expect that someone on the other side of the planet knows little, small differences between 2 small nations. Because, those differences are small. You can find Slivovich in Croatia, too. But it is not so often as in Serbia.
After all I feel like citizen of the world.
Handsback
January 31, 2023 at 08:50 am
The one thing that has put KC over the top is their DC. For those who have a long memory...he's the same guy who was the Giants DC when they beat Favre in Green Bay for that trip to face the undefeated Patriots.
He knows how to bring pressure. He's a great DC that few talk about but can take some talent and form them into a pretty menacing group.
Just MHO
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 09:21 am
Good head coaching is as much about having the best you can get around you as about what you can get out of players. Straining for every edge and removing weaknesses as quickly as possible.
Handsback
January 31, 2023 at 08:56 am
The one thing that has put KC over the top is their DC. For those who have a long memory...he's the same guy who was the Giants DC when they beat Favre in Green Bay for that trip to face the undefeated Patriots.
He knows how to bring pressure. He's a great DC that few talk about but can take some talent and form them into a pretty menacing group.
Just MHO
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 12:30 pm
KC has the best play caller on both sides of the ball.
LeotisHarris
January 31, 2023 at 02:19 pm
Seeing Spagnuolo on the sidelines, hands on his knees, watching his D get after it never fails to make my face twitch and mind start to reel. From there, it's a very short mental trip to the image of Tom Caughlin's cherry red face, then the Ryan Grant wide open as Favre heaves up that ridiculous Int. The FG splits the uprights. Fade to black.
Since'61
January 31, 2023 at 09:09 am
When I look at teams that are having great season(s) first place I look is at the HC. He is the guy responsible for producing results and the team's W/L record.
I've posed this before even while Brady was still in NE. Andy Reid is the best HC in the league. Another guy the Packers let get away back in the Ron Wolf era.
I don't follow the Chiefs closely but Reid has surpassed even his mentor Mike Holmgren as an HC. I like the fact that he knows exactly who is and that he absolutely loves his role. He knows that he is a football coach, first, last and always. He doesn't want to be a GM and an HC. He wants to coach. And he is great at it and he is in charger of his team. Not the owner, not the GM and definitely not any of the player(s). "Success demands a singleness of purpose." Coach Lombardi.
For Eagles we have Nick Sirianni. He's only been an NFL HC for 2 seasons and he has brought his team to the SB. He put together his own coaching staff with Shane Steichen as the OC who calls the plays. His QB Hurts was drafted in 2020 (the same draft class as a certain Packers clipholder)and Sirianni started him out of the gate in 2021. Eagles management has made numerous other personnel moves which have significantly contributed to the team's success. Bottom line is that it looks like Sirianni is the prefect HC for the Eagles. He doesn't call plays and he isn't flapping his arms on the sidelines. At least I haven't seen him to do that during the sparse amount of time that I have watched Eagles games over the last 2 seasons. His is among an ever growing list of less experienced NFL HCs who have defeated the offensive genius Matt LaChooch. The Eagles owner does not get in the way and he enables his GM and HC to do their jobs. The GM is among the NFL's best. His team has now reached the SB twice in the last 5 seasons.
Since Gute became the Packers GM in 2018 the Chiefs have reached the the AFCCG 5 consecutive times and this will their 3rd SB appearance in those 5 seasons. And yet many believe that Gute is doing a fine job as Packers GM. Really!?!?!? Compared with who? Time to take a long, hard, honest look at the Packers FO and coaching staff. Would they ever be able to pull off what the Chiefs and/or Eagles have accomplished in the last 5 seasons? Obviously not!!!
I'm not sure but I don't think that either team is in salary cap hell and Chiefs are paying Mahomes a huge contract over the last 2 seasons.
But at least we have Titletown and "we're not idiots." to hang onto. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 09:26 am
In an incisive post, you nevertheless lost me on Gute. You seem to believe that he handles the cap, coaching and contracts? He doesn’t. Wouldn’t that then mean it’s Murphy that is the unifying issue not the player acquisition? I think it is, but I’m curious as to what you are saying in that regard?
Since'61
January 31, 2023 at 09:58 am
Coldworld - Sorry, I was not as clear as I should have been.
I think that your comment is perfect proof of how fouled up the Packers FO is. My point about Gute is that he is still responsible for scouting and drafting and in effect building the team. Clearly since 2018 Gute has not built a team that is close to the teams that the Chiefs and Eagles have built.
I agree that Murphy is the unifying issue but I believe (not sure) that Gute is still responsible for scouting and drafting. While Ball is responsible for contracts and the cap. Now in a normal organization the GM would also be responsible for contracts and the cap. The GM would also be responsible for hiring the HC but here we are.
Since RAS is a point of emphasis ni the Packers draft choices I would recommend that someone at CHTV write an article comparing the RAS scores of the Packers players with the RAS scores of either the Chiefs or Eagles or both. Is the focus on RAS limiting the Packers in terms of their draft selections?
Another point I wanted to make in my post is that after the season Matt LaChooch stated that the Packers need to study offensive plays which other teams have developed. Really!!! WTF is he doing??? He has been an NFL HC for four seasons and he is just realizing now that he should be studying what other teams are doing. And BTW he should also be studying what others teams are doing on defense and STs.
To me this statement by MLC is an admission of how incompetent our coaching staff really is and has been. This isn't even management 101. Studying and keeping up with what your competitors are doing, in any profession, is pre-management 101. It's just plain common sense. Now I understand at least one of the many reasons why our team looks so unprepared throughout the season. This is part of the reason why are players looked lost on the field so often. IMO if we had any level of competent management this admission by MLC alone should be enough to fire him. This is pathetic. Another clue why Rodgers is often pissed at this guy. The Packers should have a few people who study what other teams are doing all the time and preparing the information for the coaching staff. In my world we call it competitive analysis and it needs to happen all the time.
It is comments and revelations like this from Matt LaChooch that continue to erode my confidence in the Packers coaching staff and in the FO for allowing this incompetence to continue. It is likely among the reasons why we may see an exodus by coaches and players from this team. Thanks, Since '61
T7Steve
January 31, 2023 at 10:19 am
"Studying and keeping up with your competitors are doing, in any profession, is pre-management 101. It's just plain common sense." That says it all Since'61, except that to be successful in the NFL you have to study to stay ahead. "Keeping up" means being behind in the NFL.
Good post!
Since'61
January 31, 2023 at 10:45 am
T7 you need to study to stay ahead in any profession. Good point. Thanks, Since '61
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 01:31 pm
Ah-So, then Film Study would circle back to your previous comment, regarding Gutedkunst & Co.
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 01:27 pm
That cleared it up. I am mostly in agreement. For me though, I think we had 2 years with good enough rosters but not good enough coaching. Perhaps that’s the differentiating nuance when it comes to Gute when all said and done.
More fundamentally, how can one assemble a roster when you don’t control the back end, retention, or how much cap is available? It’s a ludicrous division of authority to me unless everything goes through Murphy. Ball’s role is perhaps the biggest tell who really makes the decisions as such things have to be known, agreed and settled in advance.
greengold
January 31, 2023 at 02:57 pm
Coldworld, you JUST nailed the perfect descriptor that could be improved upon in Gutekunst's talent acquisition: NUANCE.
There are RAS scores up the yang. Metrics all over the freaking place for every position, every aspect that sets a player in a certain position group apart from the rest.
Except for: TOUGHNESS
It takes nuance to find/quantify toughness. Those players who will gut through anything to get the job done. For me, the players I will readily, instinctually go to as first thoughts (of late, meaning over the past 3-4 years or so) regarding this are: Mecole Hardman & Deebo Samuel.
I knew they were going to be great NFL WRs before they were drafted, and wanted them to be Packers. Allen Lazard has it, and we will lose that to another team, because he's clearly hitched his wagon to Aaron Rodgers. Seems from early indications he wants out of Green Bay.
Who knows? Maybe the Packers come to their senses and pay more to keep Lazard for the next 4 years or so. Is there a component more in demand on NFL rosters today?
Lazard is a reliable WR, one AR should have found far more often over the last 3 years or so. His blocking is an essential part of his game, and he's exceptional in that regard. Both he and MVS had been ignored far too often by AR, for years, in order to pound DA's numbers.
Packers1985
February 01, 2023 at 12:28 am
Sorry but MVS had his share of problems in his break out yr in 2020 where he had better TD's and 2nd best in terms of yards with his current yr. That year his catch percentage was in mid 50's when thrown to him and last yr he atleast missed 6 games. So i dont get the fact that when he got ignored. Lazard to some degree agreed but MVS i dont think so.
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:09 pm
As LeotisHarris said yesterday, with Scooter it's all about projecting an Illusion of Competence.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 01, 2023 at 05:22 am
If Gute does not control contracts and cap, then he cannot truly have full control over roster construction. And that's really what a GM is supposed to do: provide the ingredients for the coaches to meld into a winning team.
Packerpasty
January 31, 2023 at 09:34 am
Many see Sirianni as a douchbag of a person, his antics on the sidelines are way worse than flapping his arms..after a blogger in a You Tube video called him out for acting like a fool he seems to have settled down..perfect fit for the assholes in Philly...successful so far, surrounded by a very good team....who made who.
Since'61
January 31, 2023 at 10:22 am
He's an douchebag who is going to the SB in his 2nd season as an HC. Where has Matt LaChooch gone after 4 seasons as HC? Who made who is exactly my point. The GM has done an excellent job of building the team and hiring the HC. The fact is that is has worked.
If the Eagles win the SB then who knows because numerous assistants will likely be poached from the coaching staff which always happens.
After 5 seasons with Gute and 4 with MLC we're not close to where the Eagles are. Thanks, Since '61
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 07:55 pm
""After 5 seasons with Gute and 4 with MLC we're not close to where the Eagles are. Thanks, Since '61"
Over LaFleur's tenure...four seasons.....we've won more games than the Eagles. We've made the playoffs more times. We've won more playoff games.
IMO, much of Philadelphia's good fortune is because they traded away Carson Wentz, who they acquired at great expense a few seasons earlier.
Now, if the Packers had gone ahead and traded away THEIR starting QB, and played the guy they drafted AHEAD of Hurts, who knows what kind of a position we'd be in?
But I disagree we're not close. The Packers are going to be able to put a good product on the field in 2023. I can see it unfolding.
Since'61
February 01, 2023 at 08:58 am
But that's the whole point isn't it. We didn't make the trade of our starting QB. We didn't replace Amari Rodgers with Nixon before it was too late. We didn't replace Lowry while he was getting pushed all over the field. We didn't return Jenkins to his best position on the OL until 5-6 games into the season. We didn't bench Hanson until it was almost mid-season. We didn't fire Drayton until it cost the Packers the 2021 season. I could go on and on.
The bottom line is that the Eagles made the changes they needed to make and that they didn't waste time doing it. If Pedeson won as SB with the Packers in 2018 he's still be the Packers HC and Wentz would still be the Packers QB. Obviously because the did it before so they will do it again or at least we owe them another 8-10 seasons to try.
Competent Management is proactive. Incompetent management is reactive because they either don't know what to do or because they don't want to or both. In either case the competent managers get better results.
I tend to agree with you that we might be close. I just don't have the confidence in our coaching staff to take the Packers where they need to go. And as I've posted before I'm not sure that matters to the FO.
I'm glad that you can see a good product coming. So do I to a point.
For me I need to have results or at least believe that the correct actions have been taken to produce the results. In the Gute/Murphy era I haven't seen good, sound, management decisions. I also don't believe that trading or having Rodgers retire solves everything. Although I hope for his sake that he does retire. The issues with the Packers are much more systemic than anyone player.
During the season I believe in taking one game at a time. During the off season I believe in taking one step at a time. MY first step this off season would have been to fire Barry. Send the team the message not good enough will not stay in Green Bay. didn't happen. Second step, trade Rodgers. May still happen. 3rd step clean up as much of the cap as possible by the league rule mandated date. 4th Step the draft, etc.,
I always stay positive but I'm getting more and more wobbly these days. Stay well. Thanks, Since '61
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 09:58 am
You will need to get a Seeing-Eye Dog for some of the Fans to get them close enough for viewing this reality.
Apparently, they give gold jackets to guys who give the farm away to folks like Ray Rhodes and Sherman. The FO never left the Wolf Pack, it continues as a 30 year plan with three hits on the on the dartboard. Two were bullseyes.
CJBauckham
January 31, 2023 at 10:42 am
I think I'm as frustrated as the rest of us with the FO, but that comment on Gute and the reply on Lafleur below it makes it sound like every other team in the NFL gets to make it to the playoffs and 2 NFCC games the past 5 years.
I am unhappy with some things and want super bowls, but I'm not going to pretend like we've been a suckfest or have the FO of the Bears or the Jags.
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 01:39 pm
Where are the participation trophies?
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 08:05 pm
That suggests a question: How many teams in the NFC have made it to the Super Bowl at least twice since our last trip?
SF . Rams. Philly. Seahawks.
I a 16 team Conference, if four of them have been to the Bowl TWICE since your last time.......I'd just say "we're due".
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:14 pm
We were "due" from 1968 until 1996. Using your logic, the Lions should win it next year, since they last won a Championship in 1958, IIRC. Was that their last playoff win? And they should play the Browns.
Leatherhead
January 31, 2023 at 09:11 am
You’re not paying attention Corey. Every team that doesn’t win the Super Bowl had an unsuccessful season. That includes KC if the lose. It includes Cincinnati and Buffalo and SF and Dallas.
Only winning the Super Bowl counts….nothing else.
Yeah, I think that’s stupid, but people believe it.
jurp
January 31, 2023 at 09:22 am
KC and Phillly are both champions of their respective conferences and as such, their players will get rings - the SB loser gets smaller conference rings. Here's some proof for you:
http://hoffco-inc.com/sb/rings-conf.html
Both teams have had successful seasons. You just get a bigger ring when you win the bigger game.
Since'61
January 31, 2023 at 10:30 am
“In our business there is no second place; you're either first, or last.” Vince Lombardi
So based on the way you think you would say that Vince Lombardi was stupid along with everyone else except yourself of course.
According to your comment that makes me stupid for agreeing with Coach Lombardi. OK if that's important to you why do you lower yourself to even comment or read our stupidity. If it was me I would have moved on long ago because I don't do stupid.
Here is the unfortunate thing in all of this, you can't have this discussion with Coach Lombardi. Which is unfortunate for any of us.
Thanks, Since '61
dobber
January 31, 2023 at 09:16 am
"The Chiefs also are proving the myth that it’s not about the receiver. "
What a ridiculously narrow view. Use the words "pass catcher". The guy who made the offense go before--and still does--is still there. Travis Kelce caught 110 passes and 12 TDs--had his best season, but not so much higher than past seasons to say KC changed what they do. He's the straw that stirs the drink. If you watch how they play, nothing changed. They distributed Hill's production over a bunch of role players (Smith-Schuster, Hardman, McKinnon, MVS) to the point that when a couple of them missed games, the impact on the offense wasn't that great.
We can clamor for a Kelce in GB--but I wouldn't look so narrowly at TE. Playmakers as pass-catchers, whether they're RBs, TEs, or WRs, is what this offense needs, and a QB and playcaller who utilizes them well. That's what this offense needs.
Coldworld
January 31, 2023 at 09:30 am
Weapons, wherever you have them. Labels obscure the point. If it works, use it generally and against specific opponents and tactics or situations. Not a LaFleur strongpoint but something Reid, Brady and Bellicheck all excel at. If memory serves, it was one area where Favre surpassed Rodgers.
PeteK
January 31, 2023 at 10:30 am
Early in his career Rogers also utilized many options, it's just recently during his last years that he seemed to force it to Adams too often. He would occasionally force it to a covered Jennings but in a back shoulder pass or Nelson in the corner of the end zone.
BAMABADGER
January 31, 2023 at 11:27 am
I miss the "well executed" RB screen pass of the Holmgren era. Farve was a master of the screen, not so with Rodgers. We haven't seen that in decades.
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 12:39 pm
A.Jones in numerous wide screen sets; Devante for the WR screen w/out blocking; they would sporadically run a TE screen every other month...Coaching.
BirdDogUni
January 31, 2023 at 03:58 pm
The screen Matt Flynn threw to Lacy in Dallas to start our biggest comeback ever was pretty wicked. (Saw that one in person.) ; )
Oppy
January 31, 2023 at 06:23 pm
It doesn't help that Aaron Rodgers is - and this is not hyperbole - Aaron Rodgers is the worst short yardage passer in the NFL.
Always has been. Outside of sticking it on the stationary WR at the immediate snap of the ball, Rodgers' screen passes are absolute garbage. No touch, can't lead the target, way too hard and almost always at their feet.
He's horrible.
EnemyTerritory
January 31, 2023 at 08:04 pm
Bravo. Creatively using the players you have regardless of their title. Add in Shanahan in SF with his use of Debo and McCaffrey….
Packers1985
February 01, 2023 at 12:37 am
Exactly my point too their offense run's through Kelce. They are ranked the no.1 pass blocking oline as per Pff and like you mentioned they distributed Hill's production by adding two expereinced wr's and on top of that they traded for Tooney mid season and already have hardman and sky moore. They are fully loaded with talent and pass catchers.
Packerpasty
January 31, 2023 at 09:36 am
Reid, Brady and Bellicheck...dont even mention MLF's name in with these greats....he aint close...
Booner
January 31, 2023 at 11:39 am
Gute has squandered the time he had with Rodgers! Let's trade up and a draft QB ! That ranks right up there with the Tony Mandrich
worst of all time draft choice! That will be Gute's legacy! Let's move on from this moron! Time for us to get a smarter GM!
jannesbjornson
January 31, 2023 at 01:47 pm
This 2023 draft, the guy many teams will attempt to move Up in the order is Matt Levis, from Kentucky.
Johnblood27
January 31, 2023 at 11:18 pm
One too many "O's"
LambeauPlain
January 31, 2023 at 12:06 pm
Ron Wolf said one of his greatest mistakes was not promoting Andy to HC after Holmgren left for Seattle to be GM/HC.
Wolf said he wanted to but decided against it because Reid had no experience as a HC nor even OC. That decision was wrong as Reid went on to success in Philly as Wolf hired former Eagles HC Rhodes.
Ironically, after Rhodes was fired after one 8-8 year, Sherman would soon become GM/HC...the very job that would have kept Holgmren in Green Bay for many more years.
Oppy
January 31, 2023 at 06:29 pm
Also the very job that Harlan says he regrets ever bestowing on anyone.
HC/GM doesn't work for many, many reasons.
It's a bad business plan.
Dragon5
January 31, 2023 at 08:09 pm
Some great comments in this thread. As the NFC NORTH continues to morph into a more competitive division ripe with parity, the facade of success branded on the current regime is turning gangrene awaiting sepsis to take hold.
Lets call a spade a spade with regards to MLF's sideline cheerleading. Green Bay is not known for rabid fans that will riot after a Super Bowl victory, nor toss beer bottles at players. If we toss anything on the field, it'll be a hot dog to a well deserving Ezra Johnson, not just as a home team player, but as a visitor as well. We do, however, emphasize a blue-collar attitude...show us you're playing your ass off and willing to put it on the line for us and your teammates on any given play and we'll respond positively. We know noise impacts games; we weren't born yesterday. To have any coach or player for that matter incessantly flap their arms to activate the crowd only reveals one thing: that the product on the field doesn't deserve it. To put it bluntly, the Packers are soft, undisciplined, and poorly managed. End of Story.
Tundraboy
January 31, 2023 at 10:03 pm
Could not agree more. Sad commentary on Packers coaching. Haven't been this embarrassed of our coach since Sherman.
Oppy
February 01, 2023 at 12:41 am
Lambeau Field crowds -are- embarrassing quiet for the most part.
It's a by-product of the 70-year-long back log for season tickets.
By NFL standards, it's an old crowd in the stands. People have tickets for 20,30, 50 years. They don't give them up because they're a family heirloom / commodity.
So you have a lot a less-than-energetic butts in seats throughout the season.
Maybe fans should be less irritated about a coach who feels the need to try and rile up the crowd, and start being a bit embarrassed that they're so quiet the coach feels the need to try and rile up the crowd.
I get it, it's easier to to shit on the coach than come to grips with the fact maybe the Packers' home field crowd doesn't exactly provide a huge home-field advantage environment.
There's a reason our on-the-road presence is 2nd to none and sometimes even drones out the home field fans, while our Lambeau presence is often ho-hum.. Home field crowd is filled with old farts holding down the family tickets they've taken for granted for decades, while our road fans are generally hungry for the opportunity to see their team play and energetic and enthusiastic enough to travel for that opportunity.
Lambeau field fans: don't be mad at the coach. Do better.
Dragon5
February 01, 2023 at 08:01 am
Oppy you bring up a great point regarding a hypothetical mean age. However, a 1/3 of season ticket holders likely resell a portion of their games to younger, eager fans willing to pay a premium for the experience.
Your last two words...might want to write a letter to coach asking the same.
Oppy
February 01, 2023 at 05:34 pm
On the topic of resell: one of the issues with this is a good number of those resells go to away team fans, many of which are willing to pay an even heftier premium than packers fans for a historic lambeau field experience they can scratch off a bucket list.
Fubared
January 31, 2023 at 10:17 pm
The Chiefs org is amazing. They are smart in that they like the Vikes covet fast guys. Speed kills and they go out and look for it and seem to find it.
In the Bungels game they reported the top three receivers got hurt an they roll out Scantling, three tight ends and a couple of rookies and they guys are catching everything that comes near them.
The defensive line is fast, linebackers didnt let Burrows do much, he didnt get far.
We just dont have that on this team.