Cory's Corner: Big Questions At Wide Receiver
New Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst was hired to swim upstream, be the ying to Ted Thompson’s yang.
New Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst was hired to swim upstream, be the ying to Ted Thompson’s yang.
Even Aaron Rodgers is eager about who Gutekunst could potentially bring in to the fold. “We gotta get better on both sides of the ball,” he said to USA Today. “And that’s on Brian’s staff, that’s their job responsibility to give us a product we can work with and then it’s on Mike (McCarthy) and the staff and leadership to make it work.”
However, in order for the Packers to bring in new faces via free agency, they have to properly evaluate whom they already have.
One of the biggest question marks is at wide receiver. Even with the increased salary cap, can the Packers swallow $12.7 million for Randall Cobb or $12.5 million for Jordy Nelson next season?
Even though the Packers locked up Davante Adams in December, he still needs capable complementary parts. I’m betting that the Packers keep Nelson for two reasons: 1. Nelson is already poaching Cobb’s snaps from the slot and 2. They can save nearly a million dollars cutting Cobb vs. cutting Nelson.
Which means it comes down to March 14 when NFL free agency starts. A name that has come up often has been Marqise Lee, but leading the league with eight drops won’t make Rodgers feel warm and fuzzy.
A guy that had a down year in Indianapolis that will not be invited back to the Colts is Donte Moncrief. He can be acquired at a cheaper price, which would allow the Packers money to balance out the defense. Moncrief, 24, played through a shoulder A/C joint sprain this season and was still third on the team in targets.
Another high value name at wide receiver is Terrelle Pryor. He suffered a Week 2 ankle injury that sent him to the injured reserve. Yet, Pryor, 28, was No. 12 in the NFL in targets, all while playing in Cleveland in 2016.
Let’s face it, Jeff Janis is gone. Many people will love or hate that because he has been one of the most polarizing players that hasn’t proven much. You could also make an argument to release Geronimo Allison. Much was expected of the rangy wideout that impressed many in his rookie campaign of 2016.
Gutekunst does have his work cut out for him. He will make a splash this offseason mainly because that is what is expected.
The biggest and most important move undoubtedly is on defense. It has been leaking oil for some time. Yet, in order for the Packers to get that shored up, they have to understand where they’re at in terms of the offense.
Adams wasn’t brought here to spin his tires as Cobb and Nelson. That duo doesn’t have much juice anymore and Green Bay won’t give them a contract.
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (133)
EdsLaces
February 10, 2018 at 06:12 am
Adams Moncrief and Nelson does sound pretty nice ..
Coldworld
February 10, 2018 at 04:16 pm
Nelson retained at any significant salary would be short term at best and pure emotion
NickPerry
February 10, 2018 at 06:56 am
I would definitely look at Paul Richardson FIRST if he's available when FA starts. Richardson has 4.4. speed, catches a deep ball very well, and wouldn't be outrageously overpriced IMO. Obviously all it takes is one knucklehead GM with $100 million in salary cap money to ruin that. Right now Spotrac is is projecting Richardson for about $6.3 million a season which is actually cheaper than Marquise Lee.
I'm not opposed to Moncrief, I just like Richardson better. If they could get Richardson, and a TE like say Trey Burton on offense and a CB like Aaron Colvin I'd be pretty stoked entering the draft.
Burton might be too expensive so perhaps a guy like Luke Wilson who would be about half the price or Austin Seferian-Jenkins who would close to the price of Wilson. The Packers have an excellent TE coach so perhaps he could do wonders with a guy like Jenkins. IMO it's important the Packers address the TE position in FA. They HAVE to have someone better WITH experience than just Kendricks.
O-Line is another spot they might want to look for a veteran. Maybe a guy like Pugh who should be able to be signed for around $6 million a year and could play guard or right tackle if need be.
I know this was about Wide Receivers BUT the Packers have quite a few NEEDS and a limited amount of cap space so they need to be smart. Even by cutting Cobb and restructuring Nelson they'd still need to very smart about how they spend the space they have.
CoryJennerjohn
February 10, 2018 at 07:29 am
I agree that the Packers have to massage the cap very carefully. Because they also have to account for a huge payment to No. 12.
TKWorldWide
February 10, 2018 at 08:22 am
Irritating that Brady is only about 15th in QB salaries.
cuervo
February 10, 2018 at 08:35 am
Why is that irritating? Brady choses to take less to make the rest of the team better. I'm surprised he seems to be the only top tier QB in the league to figure that out so far.
Cubbygold
February 10, 2018 at 08:57 am
Rodgers seems like a smart guy, and seems like he cares about winning. I hope that he sees potential in these changes and opts to take a reasonable contract as well. He could break this team if he wanted to, and 90% of GB fans would smile while handing him $35M a year. But we know that'd be the end of GB competitiveness
Cubbygold
February 10, 2018 at 08:57 am
Rodgers seems like a smart guy, and seems like he cares about winning. I hope that he sees potential in these changes and opts to take a reasonable contract as well. He could break this team if he wanted to, and 90% of GB fans would smile while handing him $35M a year. But we know that'd be the end of GB competitiveness
TKWorldWide
February 10, 2018 at 12:07 pm
Irritating for that exact reason! The more GB pays 12, the less they have to spend on the rest of the team.
And yet all I hear is that GB “has to” pay 12 30+ a year.
worztik
February 10, 2018 at 12:23 pm
I say draft a NEW QB NOW!!!
worztik
February 10, 2018 at 09:29 pm
We let Rodgers’ contract run full and be preparing a young, strong-armed QB to take over in two years! If he’s not quite ready we franchise AROD for another year or two and then we should have our next franchise QB fully developed... if not, it’s not on the player that was drafted but on the coaches and training staff!!! If AROD wants to stay in GB we pay him $25 million every year for ten years or however long he wants to play! If he needs to be the highest paid among Cousins,Smith and Garappalo and the others, he’s not a true team player and sometimes sacrifices need to be made for the good of the organization!!! I wanna see a great team with great players, and a great QB would be nice, but, if one can’t be signed due to excessive financial demands I believe we have to pull a Lombardi and let him walk! It’ll take a couple years to settle in after playing in GB so the loss while major is NOT a team killer! I’m fed up with anyone that holds a team ransom due to wanting to be the king of the hill!!! That’s a child’s game!!! Just bein’ real!!!
NickPerry
February 10, 2018 at 02:22 pm
This is exactly the nightmare. On one hand we have the best QB in the NFL. On the other hand we'll have to pay him as such. I've heard Wilde a few times suggest Rodgers might try to negotiate a contract which pays him a specific percentage of the salary cap. To be honest I have no idea where he came up with this. But lets say for example Rodgers contract would fluctuate with the cap. When the cap goes up so does his yearly salary. For 2018 his salary is 12.45% of the cap. If the Packers could keep it around 15% or a few points higher it would allow the Packers to be competitive AND pay Rodgers a fair salary.
If this next contract gets up to $35 million or somewhere near that, the Packers I'm both sorry and fearful to say are screwed. Rodgers is a very, very smart guy. He makes about $7.5 million in endorsements a year which I'm sure continues to rise every year. What if Rodgers was guaranteed say 15% of the salary cap through the next 5 years or so. Would THAT be enough?
If not IMO it's purely EGO. Sure you can say he should be paid his worth because he's the best. If that's REALLY the case, if he really wants to be compared to Brady one day then put that EGO aside and let the Packers put a team around you that gives you the best chance to win. As we've seen in the last few years he CAN'T do it by himself. He'll get the Packers to the NFCCG but that's about it. But if he's working with a a 15% cap number (just an example) and use the rest to get the Reggie Whites of free agency.
flackcatcher
February 11, 2018 at 08:54 am
Nick, the percentage idea came from Rodgers agent. I was told he started pushing that back in 2016. No one knows if he is serious, or if the Packer front office (with the massive changes) is receptive to the idea. During Superbowl week, Rodgers did bring up the percentage in relation to the salary cap. Both he and his agent are well aware that the revenue stream is going to narrow out soon, and the first causality will be the cap. At some point, the bubble will contract, and how teams paid their top players will be affected. Personally, I see this as more of an opening gambit on the next CBA, as this along with head trauma issues are the biggest elephants in the room.
NickPerry
February 11, 2018 at 09:39 am
Flackcatcher...Thanks for the info of where that originated. IMO it's a great idea as long as it's not a ridiculous percentage. He's making 12.45% of the cap this years so what would the rightful percentage be? It will be interesting to watch this whole thing play out.
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 10:01 am
I guess my question would be whether this kind of contract is allowed under the CBA? Is there precedent for it?
Thegreatreynoldo
February 11, 2018 at 04:03 pm
From 2013 to 2017, here are QB's actual cashed earned. AR has never made $22M AAV: that is just a headline. His percentage of the cap comes out to 12.06% from 2013 to 2017, inclusive.
$22.40M ave/ $112.00M: J Flacco*
$22.20M ave/$111.00M: Stafford**
$20.54M ave/$123.25M Brees***
$19.53M ave/$97.55M: Eli Manning
$18.90M ave/$94.40M: M Ryan
$18.76M ave/$93.80M: Phillip Rivers
$17.89M ave/$89.46M: Rothlisberger
$17.33M ave/$86.65M: Rodgers
$14.95M ave/$74.77M: Brady
$14.59M ave/$72.97M Jay Cutler
$16.00M ave/$64.00M: Jay Cutler 14-17
$13.40M ave/$67.00M: Alex Smith
Newer QB Contracts:
$22.56M average, total $67.67M: Cam Newton, 2015 to 2017* Even w 2 yrs of rookie deal, 2013-17: $73.42M total, $14.68M average
$18.88M average, total $56.66M: Russell Wilson, 2015 to 2017.
$13.17M average, total $39.50M: Ryan Tannehil, 2015 to 2017. (Rookie deal in 2013 and 2014).
$12.32M average, total $49.30M: Andy Dalton, 2014 to 2017. (on rookie deal in 2013).
* Nothing like negotiating a new contract coming off a super bowl winning year. See Flacco and Newton.
**Stafford's includes $51M in ‘17 – he qualifies as a new wave of QB contracts. From ’13 to ’16: $15M ave, $60M total.
*** Brees numbers include 2012 to 2017. (His cap issues are on mismanagement.) Couldn’t ignore $40M he got in 2012.
Eliminating super bowl winners, new wave contracts (Stafford), and Brady (just unusual circumstances), really good QBs (Brees, Ryan, Rivers, AR, and Rothlisberger have averaged earning $18.684M per year since roughly 2012/2013. If new contracts for really good QBs comes in at $30M AAV or $32M AAV, that is a 60.56% to 71.27% increase, the latter being almost exactly double cap inflation. That bodes very poorly for GB.
BTW: AR has earned $2.38M per year more than Brady between 2013 and 2017, a five season period. That isn't insignificant: it buys a Jahri Evans (OTOH: it buys Kendricks or most of an Ahmad Brooks), but it isn't really enough IMO to explain why NE is in super bowls and winning a fair % of them by itself. Helpful though.
Royalty Free GM
February 11, 2018 at 09:14 pm
I’m not so familiar about available cap space. Do you know how much cap space we free if e.g. Cobb or Nelson or Matthews are cut?
How much we could realistically save by restructuring Matthews and Nelson contracts?
Can we then afford for:
CB Trumaine Johnson 11-12M?
WR Paul Richardson 6-7M?
Pass rusher OLB Nigel Bradham 6-7M?
TE How about Darren Fells ! 1-1.5M?
Total about 24-27.5M?
We have now 19M cap space?
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/cap/
If we cut Cobb, do we get 12M more cap space, total of 31M ??
dobber
February 12, 2018 at 04:57 am
It's in your link.
The Packers get his total cap hit minus dead money....about $9M back.
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 07:29 am
The only Question I see is, can Adams live up to his heist. You just are not going to save squat cutting Cobb, and trying to sign a couple new FA WRs. The math just does not work. Let alone getting them in this offense , when it took Adams 3 years to learn it. And then you could have paid Cobb, and 2 FA Wrs for what you paid Adams. A $100,000 a catch, and your worried what Cobb makes. Nuts! Cobb came back and showed Loyalty, patience, and common sense. You want speed and separation. Ok Watch what gets drafted. Players that can run the ROUTE TREEES! Cobb still can. And he's still faster than Nelson, Allison, Clark. Changes take time and good picks. I see more damage to the packers image by cutting Cobb for money. If Cobb was with New England we wouldn't be having this discussion.
cuervo
February 10, 2018 at 08:38 am
If Cobb was with New England he wouldn't have a 10+ mio /year contract, they would have let him go long before that ever happened. Signing Cobb to that contract was a mistake by TT.
NickPerry
February 10, 2018 at 02:31 pm
It's easy to say it's a mistake now but after the 2014 season he had I'd say 98% of Packers fans were pretty damn happy he signed. IIRC he also had offers for MORE money but decided to stay in GB.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and as it's turned out it was a terrible contract by the Packers. One I might add was put together by Russ Ball who's throwing tons of money around to players probably not worth the money. I love me some Adams and Lindsey but for that money? Or the contract for Perry??
Those deals are direct results of the failed draft classes by Thompson. Had the Packers been stocked at WR like they were after 2012 they could have allowed Adams to walk just like they did with Jennings. But TT has been TRYING and FAILING to fix the defense for so damn long the offense has gotten old in certain positions or they just haven't replaced the players moving on.
In Ted We Trust my rear end!!!!!!!
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 03:20 pm
Let me add this to the Toilet Paper; Javon Walker, Robert Ferguson, Greg Jennings, james Jones. TT became GM in 2005. He didn't want to pay for better Talent. He believed his All-pro Qbs make the WR. A-Rod made Cobb and Adams a lot of money. Farve made Walker ,Ferguson , and Jennings a lot. But watch these contracts strangle the depth of the team. And your next man up will show the weaknesses. A QB has to want to throw it to a WR. Will he throw to money or the guy open. Money makes money. The mistake was signing Adams and not letting him go like Jennings. The other mistake was not finding a TE that runs. TT and Ball flushed money and rings down the toilet!
OrganLeroy
February 10, 2018 at 03:46 pm
Walker & Ferguson were drafted by Mike Sherman.
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 05:18 pm
Robert Ferguson played in GB 2001-2006 Best Year was 2004! Javon Walker played in GB 2002 - 2004 All pro 2004. Traded by TT April 29, 2006. Farve wanted him signed. But the Hard ball TT signs ADAMS , To the heist?
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 10:02 am
"In Ted We Trust my rear end!!!!!!!"
Placing a comma in there would give me some idea of just how disconcerting that statement is.
worztik
February 11, 2018 at 10:57 am
In Ted, we trust my rear end? In Ted we, trust my rear end? In, Ted we trust my rear end? In Ted we trust my rear, end? I find them all egregious! Just kiddin’......
4thand1
February 10, 2018 at 07:56 am
Well here we are again in full off season mode. This has been an off season to remember so far and it's not even close to being done. Speculation and predictions are all we have for now. I really don't see the Packers taking much of a gamble signing a FA WR this year. If either Cobb or Jordy don't restructure one may be gone. They have enough experience at WR so I see them using the draft. AR makes the average receiver a really good WR.
Cubbygold
February 10, 2018 at 08:53 am
Thats what I'd be interested to know. How much salary is tied up with adams/jordy/cobb, and how does that compare accross the league? Arguably, if rodgers makes average WRs look good, then GB could potentially allocate more resources away from WR and toward other areas.
It feels like GB has misallocated, and could/should be dedicating more $ towards the defense.
Dzehren
February 10, 2018 at 10:41 am
We have a documented history of drafting WR’s in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. Let’s not over pay a free agent when we can draft one. Same draft history with offensive lineman in the middle rounds. Corner backs? Not a good track record so let’s look to FA there
TKWorldWide
February 11, 2018 at 10:12 am
Linemen
Not
Lineman
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 04:08 pm
Track record goes out the window with the top assessment guys gone and a new person pulling the trigger...
CheesyTex
February 10, 2018 at 01:18 pm
Davis? Janis?
dobber
February 10, 2018 at 02:38 pm
Dammit...Janis...
Dzehren
February 10, 2018 at 04:39 pm
DAVIS was 5th rd & Janis 7th rd.
Greg Jennings, James Jones, jordy Nelson, Davonte Adams , Randall Cobb. All 2nd & 3rd picks
4thand1
February 11, 2018 at 10:08 am
Donald Driver
worztik
February 11, 2018 at 11:00 am
Donald... dammit!!!!
Bearmeat
February 10, 2018 at 07:57 am
Corey, Janis is a ST player. He's a taller, stronger and faster Jarrett Bush.
I do agree that there needs to be a HWS FA WR on the team, and that either Cobb or Nelson must go.
scullyitsme
February 10, 2018 at 08:11 am
I see this as easier then everyone is making it out be. If you where to cut Cobb and Nelson I personally don’t think either at this stage would make more then 6-8 mil on the open market. I bring them back at that price or cut them. Me thinks they would stay to stay with Rodgers instead of sucking it up in Cleveland or where ever. They are smart guys
Qoojo
February 10, 2018 at 08:55 am
Here is a question to ponder. Is the WR ability at issue, or MM's stale predictable routes and patterns that are the issue? I use to think that it was Rodgers making the WRs, and that they were overrated these past few years, excluding Nelson. After the past season, I am leaning towards that it was Rodgers covering for MM's stale offense.
Welcome back Philbin. Really like how MM appears to evaluated the same thing in scrapping the offense and designing from scratch. Granted that many of the plays will be the same because of the nature of the task.
Cubbygold
February 10, 2018 at 09:23 am
A staple, though not the only thing that made Philbins offenses great, was great TE play. Wonder if he sees that as the biggest need on offense
scullyitsme
February 10, 2018 at 09:00 am
My comment really had nothing to do with loyalty, it’s was about the market value of both( the exact opposite of loyalty ). Which I believe is around 6-8 mil. If Cleveland pays 10 mil well good for them. I don’t see even Cleveland paying 10 mil for either. So as stated before, if their open market price is around 6-8 mil keep them. If they can make 8 mil with the pack or 8 mil with Cleveland, as stated above, they are smart enough to make that decision
worztik
February 10, 2018 at 09:00 am
Was Cobb able to come in as a rookie and make a splash? I think he did! However, his time seems to be over and why not seek a trade with a team that has an abundance of players/talent at a position of need for us? People say, “oh, but what about comp picks?” If we cut him, we receive NONE... If we trade him, we receive none... if he walks, it won’t be until after this year and we still pay him in ‘18! Trades are cool if our GM is wise about negotiating, along with player evaluation, neither of which we know about! Trade one of our 3’s or our 4 for an established TE! Trade Cobb for a really good TE! That could solve two issues... Cobb’s overblown salary and our need for a dynamic TE! TRADE... TRADE... TRADE!!! Something we rarely see anymore from the Pack. May not be as easy as I might be making it out to be and maybe none of this is feasible, however, we won’t know until we try! Throw out some “feelers” for Cobb and see what happens. Maybe we can get a high draft choice or two to use for a TE or OLB... Just conjecturing
Since'61
February 10, 2018 at 09:17 am
Worztik - your approach to making trades is not off base. However, the problem with trading players in this era of the NFL is that you are actually trading the contracts of the players involved. It is difficult to make trades unless both teams can fit the existing players' contracts within their respective salary caps. Guaranteed money becomes an issue as well. If you have a player like Garapolo who has yet to sign a big contract you can make a move but it gets complicated when get into the veteran contracts. Thanks, Since '61
worztik
February 10, 2018 at 09:35 am
I hear ya ‘61 and you speak the truth! I like trading and bartering and I always have! Maybe it doesn’t work for the reasons you stated and that makes me somewhat sad!!! You have a great weekend brother...
Since'61
February 10, 2018 at 10:38 am
Worztik - enjoy your weekend as well. Thanks, Since '61
Cubbygold
February 10, 2018 at 09:20 am
Yeah, I agree that the GM needs to be creative, but if Cobbs salary is too high, as you say, you're not going to trade him away AND get a great TE. Unless you're sending multiple high draft picks with
Andrew Lloyd Peth
February 10, 2018 at 10:08 am
So you think someone will trade us a "really good TE" to take on "Cobb's overblown salary"???
My goodness, it has come to this...
worztik
February 10, 2018 at 12:26 pm
It certainly seems that’s what TT has left us with... so sad!!!
worztik
February 10, 2018 at 12:34 pm
Can you say, “Herschel Walker gets traded to the Queens???”
Since'61
February 10, 2018 at 09:05 am
My approach to this issue which I'm confident the Packers are at least considering if not actually utilizing is to prioritize the team's needs by highest impact position and applying a dollar value to meet each need.
The Packer priorities are:
1. Pass rush
2. Cornerback(s)
3. OL, right side
4. TE
5. Safety
6. WR(s) with speed
7. Another ILB
8. Depth on the DL
9. Backup QB
10. OL depth
The exact order can be adjusted based on specific players becoming available for the right price in FA and/or players available in the draft.
IMO, given the current cap constraints I would spend the money on a FA pass rusher and CB. Then a TE and/or safety for the right price. We can also get an experienced OL for the Vet minimum depending on how much we spend on the other positions.
Then I look to the draft for young legs at OLB, CB, WR and possibly safety and ILB. Another DL and OL as well.
Finally depending on who's available and their price I look to sign an experienced backup at QB and draft a QB for 3rd string and to develop.
Who knows how this will play out but the Packers current highest impact needs are at pass rush and CB so I would look to meet those needs and spend FA money on those 2 positions first.
How aggressive Gute decides to be on signing FAs to fill the Packers needs will determine if players like Jordy, Cobb, and CM3 become cap casualties or not. The Packers are at a crossroads so it will be a busy 3-4 months ahead. Thanks, Since '61
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 11:37 am
The Packer priorities are:
1. Pass rush= D. Lawrence- Too much. Arden Key - Lsu #14 to high
2. Cornerback(s)=Cap problems say No. House is a better option. J. Jackson - 4.5 Denzil Ward 4.37 possible? Doubt it.
3. OL, right side= Spriggs and Murphy. Connor Williams - NO re-addressed in 4th
4. TE- yes- Wilson Here! 4.55 speed - Draft No Te. No shannon Sharp for sure!
5. Safety- Burnett? Draft James solid #14 pick
6. WR(s) Adams signing changed signing a FA Draft with speed- Kirk, Chark, Pettis in the second rd.
7. Another ILB- None FA, Draft = R smith replaces Thomas for sure. Excellent#14 pick if his numbers show speed.
8. Depth on the DL- Dial. Draft Davenport @14. or vea!
9. Backup QB- Moore . Draft Mason Rudolph- in Trade movement.
10. OL depth- I can name 6 guys in the draft the packers could take between 4-6 rounds. All would be good for depth!
WKUPackFan
February 12, 2018 at 06:44 am
#14 is too high for Arden Key? Perhaps, if you want to pass on possibly the best defensive lineman available other Bradley Chubb.
stockholder
February 12, 2018 at 07:46 am
No one is with you on that ? What is your source? I see 5 scouting reports ,Mocks, saying he'll be picked at 20. The biggest reason is the drop off in sacks etc. ( his last year.) Key and Landry have character questions. Where does Key Fit? The OLB is a better pick in Edmunds,Davenport, and Smith. As far as Lineman, Vita Vea will be picked before Key.
Rossonero
February 10, 2018 at 11:39 am
Well said, agreed Since '61. Do you think it's possible for Ty Montgomery to switch back to WR? He just doesn't run like a RB, gets hurt and his sickle cell trait means it takes him longer to heal. Plus, he's younger at a position we need more youth at.
Since'61
February 10, 2018 at 12:03 pm
Rossonero - yes, I think that Monty can switch back to a slot receiver. He is very versatile player and gives Rodgers plenty of options for RPO. Opposing DCs will need to account for him. The question for Monty is can he remain healthy and how many snaps he should take in a game. Thanks, Since ‘61
OrganLeroy
February 10, 2018 at 03:55 pm
Montgomery won't be switching to slot receiver, he'll continue as he is, a hybrid WR/RB that creates many mismatch opportunities, makes no sense to switch him back to receiver and they won't. Cobb Jordy or Clay aren't getting cut either.
stockholder
February 11, 2018 at 08:18 am
If he switches back to WR it will be the end of his playing Time. And as a Packer.
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 09:57 am
Let's not lose track of the fact that Monty was third on the team in targets when he broke his ribs against...well, I can't remember which, but he was seeing a lot of balls coming his way in the passing game. I don't think he'll ever be a true anything (RB or WR) from here on out because I believe his greatest value is...
1. in his versatility.
2. in keeping him healthy by getting him the right number of touches (which may not happen at RB)
3. putting him in a position where the Packers can deploy some of their other offensive playmakers (Aaron Jones).
Bure9620
February 11, 2018 at 07:43 am
Monty has not been in the WR room for nearly 2 years. He is a RB passing threat out of the backfield.
carlos
February 13, 2018 at 06:24 am
‘61, It’s hard to believe where our cap is with such marginal players. Gutekunst has a big job ahead of him. I agree with most posts that Nelson and Cobb need to adjust their contracts. Need a TE desperately. Not a fan of Kendrick’s. Good idea the offense is getting an overhaul and needs a new look. We all know where the defense is at this point, but our man Pettine could be just what the doctor ordered. It will be a fun next couple months.
Community Guy
February 10, 2018 at 09:07 am
i have been researching guys in the '18 draft. guess what? i have found a lot of WR talent in the 2nd-4th round range.. guys who can start in years 1 or 2. free agency is where the Packers can find a veteran TE to replace the disappointment of losing Martellus Bennett.
Andrew Lloyd Peth
February 10, 2018 at 09:52 am
I'm sorry, did you call losing Bennett a disappointment?
That was a typo, right?
cheesycowboy
February 11, 2018 at 06:41 pm
Darren Sproles type.
4thand1
February 10, 2018 at 09:58 am
The disappointment was signing Bennett. It was and always has been about him. When AR went down so did he.
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 11:42 am
All about me! Not get over yourself.
Colin_C
February 10, 2018 at 01:01 pm
Yep, this year's WR class is pretty decent in the mid rounds. I'd say that goes for TE's as well. Sign a veteran TE, but also draft one in the 3rd or 4th round.
OrganLeroy
February 10, 2018 at 03:57 pm
There's also very high quality TE's that can be picked rounds 2-4 and we need to pick one.
Andrew Lloyd Peth
February 10, 2018 at 10:14 am
This article fails to look at the total cap picture. We have a pathetic $21 million to go with Rodgers's looming extension, a hole-filled roster with terrible athleticism, and a few ascending players who will soon need big money.
Ted has left an absolute mess, and we need some adults making adult decisions, using 2018 to steer this Titanic away from the cap iceberg.
Cut both Nelson and Cobb outright, along with Matthews and perhaps Bulaga. Don't even think about re-signing Burnett. This will leave us $50-60 million in cap space for extending Rodgers and all ascending players.
As for WR, sign one risky FA with athleticism--maybe Moncreif or Richardson, if the price is right--and roll with Adams, that player, Clark, Davis, Allison, and a draft pick.
Bottom line: We'd love to keep declining players on reduced contracts, but that's bandaids where we need surgery. Ted has nuked our cap, and 2018 must be for rebuilding, not idiotic reloading.
It's time for adult decisions.
fastmoving
February 10, 2018 at 01:13 pm
Smart take without drama and complaining. You would be a much better GM than TT ever was........maybe for a day.
If you find your office............
OrganLeroy
February 10, 2018 at 03:58 pm
What a ridiculous statement!
Coldworld
February 10, 2018 at 04:24 pm
Hate to say it but the notion that we let both walk might be the right. There are some fast WRs in FA Likely available for less than either of Nelson or Cobb’s salary and could probably pick up a slot guy too and still be under half their combined salaries. Then supplement with the draft. Football is a harsh world.
John Ramble Kirk
February 10, 2018 at 05:52 pm
I'm with ALP...Throwing money at Adams because other teams would throw more is another part of this issue we have with the cap. Davante is another 10.5 million drain on our cap for 2018. Of course, like most extensions, his was given out of fear. Fear we would have nothing if we didn't give him the money. Foolishness. i thought the days of being backed into a corner to overpay our own were over? I was truly stunned by the announcement of Davante's extension. Now, we have 3 guys with a combined cap hit of 35+ million for 2018. That's insanity for just that is what's paid, but when factoring what we're going to get from those 3 it's a term beyond the intensity of insane. Further, Davante is going to play a minimum of 3 years on his current deal. He accounts for 16.6 mil of our cap in 2020. If cut, that's a 7.2 mil dead cap hit so he's playing for 16.6 million in 2020. I don't even know what to say to that. That guy is nowhere near a star in this league. I honestly would rather have Donte Moncrief or Paul Richardson for a fraction of Davante's bloated salary. I'm hoping against hope that the decision was made to jettison Cobb and Nelson before they decided to give 10.5 mil to Davante for next season. I just can't imagine a scenario where they honestly felt they were going to pay 35+ mil for that.
I opt for the nuclear surgical option and blow out all these bloated salaries. We weren't winning with this cast anyway. Why continue overpaying it? A new approach is clearly needed not let's just do it the same cookie cutter way every year and hope by attrition around the league we might sneak one. That's Ted.
To say Janis is done is premature. There may not be another team in the league who likes him at WR. His prowess on ST's is worth a nice contract so it'll be interesting to see what offers he gets from others. Like a lot of guys, what happens with our big bloat guys is going to determine what happens with janis.
As it stands, we have a pathetic arsenal for 12 to throw to. The TE position is at or completely at the bottom of the NFL. We have 3 guys at WR who he actually trusts but they'll cost about what his new deal will cost so they can't all stay. Get ready for more Geronimo Allison types. Ironically, i don't think Geronimo is that much worse than Davante Adams. Both have no speed and can make contested catches.
Ty Montgomery offers some hope. Nobody knows what Philbin will do with him. He's the OC and he will decide if he's a WR or RB or both. I truly believe Ty Montgomery has more ability to be a star WR in this league than Davante Adams. People don't know or have forgotten Montgomery was likely a solid 1st rounder at WR had he come out his Junior year. He was a steal in Round 3. A shame he was forced to move to RB. I don't understand what we're doing half the time. Always being forced to move guys overpay guys etc. Nothing is ever natural. Just let 88 play WR and watch him explode. He can't take the pounding of 12-14 tackles a game as a RB. He'll get tackled around 4-7 times a game as a WR and his body can handle that.
I'm all in on a 1st round WR this season if we get nothing via FA. I can't bear to see another solid unspectacular defensive prospect get added to our group. At minimum, I hope there's a guy too tantalizing to pass on in the first 2 rounds. We need speed and some excitement back in our air attack.
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 10:40 pm
John your first Paragraph was perfect. My feelings exactly on Adams. And the CAP. Tight end. Again your correct on that. But drafting a Wr first shouldn't happen. I understand,Lofton, Sharpe, etc. But what good will that do if your QB won't throw to them. He's got his favorites just like Farve had Chewie. If the packers resort to the draft for a TE, instead of FA,. were not going to the super-bowl. It's that simple. The #1 priority has to be TE. This should be your surgical option. Get rid of the TE's. Take the 10 mil. that burnett, wants and go get one.
John Ramble Kirk
February 11, 2018 at 01:56 am
Why wouldn't Aaron throw to a rookie? He threw it quite a bit to Adams. If you cut Jordy and Randall, he's going to have Adams locked up with CB1's and that'll force him to come off Adams to go elsewhere. A slick rookie is going to be very important, iMO, iF we don't find a credible pass catcher in FA. Davante is going to look like the 2015 version without help around him. He only had 6 more receptions than Cobb this season on 25 more targets. I thought it was interesting Cobb hauled in almost 10% more percentage wise of his targets than Adams did.
No question we need a game changer at TE. I gotta believe Philbin is pounding the table for one. That 2011 offense had Finley. No way we can go into 2018 with Kendricks or Rich Rod as our TE1. I just don't know how we're going to fill all our many needs this year unless we decide not to extend 12 which I'm actually a big proponent of. No extension for him would really help. Will a guy like Dallas Goedert drop to 14 in Round 2? You don't want a rookie, but he could be the one guy who could have the impact we need at the position.
I used to envision Jimmy Graham here. He can't block but he's a huge target running down the middle like MM has pined for but can we afford him? Is Colt Lyerla out of jail and ready to roll? :) I'm not as big on Trey Burton as many are. Concerned that's going to be a gaping hole for our O, again. Would love to let Morgan go, as you suggested, and use his money on a TE. It's really too bad Cook didn't work out last offseason. What a mess that caused in all kinds of ways.
Not sure why we couldn't get to the SB without a stud TE, though? We rolled into our last SB with Tom Crabtree and rookie Andrew Quarless who actually caught 5 balls.
PackEyedOptimist
February 11, 2018 at 07:11 am
I'm happy to see others who recognize our need for a quality TE. This team's ability to win is built around the QB's ability to score points; improving the defense is nice, but Green Bay will live or die by its offense. It's amazing to me that we have fielded such terrible TE play for ALL of Rodgers career. People talk about Finley like he was great, but he was completely hit-or-miss until his final year; his injury really ruined "the plan."
That said, I ABSOLUTELY believe Green Bay should pick a TE with one of their first three picks. Yes, that includes their number one--preferably in a trade-down to the late first. I believe both Mark Andrews and Dallas Goedert are going to be Pro-Bowl TEs eventually. Both have Gronk-like potential, and that isn't hyperbole. Additionally, there are several other tall, athletic, great-hands TE prospects in Fumagallii, Breneman, Gesicki, and Hurst. If the Packers don't use their 1 or 2 on a TE, I really hope they use their 3. I don't like drafting for need, but I think any player I just listed would start over any player currently on the roster (though it might take a year to learn the system), and I REALLY believe THAT is what the Rodgers offense needs. I see it as WAY more of a need than a new WR.
stockholder
February 11, 2018 at 08:10 am
Rookies really are frowned on with free agency now. A-Rod threw it to Adams because Jarod and Janis were pushing behind him. Also He did have a couple of games that he showed something. The name Drop -Vante was obvious. Most of it was decoy, and as the season progressed. Adams was ignored by defenses ,where A-Rod found him favorable. But I do like the respect Adams gets now. Just I would have liked 2 for the price of one. And not the Cap crap coming. Cobb and Nelson only have 1 year left. You can't use someone up and say get out. I would never go to GB as a player if they can't honor what they sign. And thats how a TE will look at it. They must get Wilson of seattle or Jenkins. TE Rookies; This is the worst year for TEs. Speed wise. All your great TE's could run in the 4.6s. No one can this year. RR Clones. Separation is just as important here. The great ones had it. I would take a WR before any TE this year. But Herndon or Fumagalli should be better than what we got. I loved how the te's were used in this years super-bowl. Just chain movers. We don't have the right ones to cause the mis- match problems. LBs can't cover good ones!
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 09:54 am
" loved how the te's were used in this years super-bowl. Just chain movers."
There's tremendous value in guys you can count on to move the chains.
Cubbygold
February 11, 2018 at 11:14 am
Cobb catches more balls because of the shorter routes he runs. He should have a higher catch rate, the comparison isn't really useful
stockholder
February 11, 2018 at 12:01 pm
Bull. Total Stats say Adams does. And that is my biggest bitch. Adams has the YAC on everybody. Very poor downfield adjustment too. It's all "jump for the ball" going down the sidelines. Adams Air time is how he kept his job! And the YAC is how he got his contract! When A-Rod gets back in there: Cobb will be catching down the middle again. Bank on it!
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 12:36 pm
Don't take the bait from him, Cubby.
stockholder
February 11, 2018 at 12:56 pm
What Bait? I'll help you change your thought process. The packers shouldn't sign Burnett. Use the money for both Willson and Jenkins. That should help you sweeten your drink.
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 03:48 pm
"I'll help you change your thought process. "
I guess as long as you're doing a public service...
John Ramble Kirk
February 12, 2018 at 08:52 am
RC18 averaged over 14 ypc the year that caused us to extend him. Davante's best season was 13 and change two seasons ago. RC18 was 21st in the NFL in YAC in 2017. Adams was 32nd almost a full hundred yards behind.
I don't understand Adams contract. Cobb put up 1287 yds on 91 rec when we handed him 40 mil. He's done little the following 3 seasons. Adams hasn't eclipsed 1000 yds or 75 rec and he gets that deal? Must be paying on fear or potential and I don't see a game changer when I watch him. I see a very good complementary WR2. There was no reason to give Adams a bigger contract than RC18 received even though we're 3 years down the road factoring inflation. Numbers and eyeball test don't justify it so it's got to be fear that caused this to happen.
Jordy has put up over 1250 yards in 4 of his last six seasons not including the wasted 2015 campaign.
What is the justification for the Adams deal? I don't mind the extension just the money attached to it. He doesn't have the numbers to justify it. Do you really think "star" when you watch him? Maybe, with Jordy gone he'll throw it more to 17 and his numbers will rise? I just don't think 17 has been close to as good as 87, or RC18 the year he exploded.
Tundraboy
February 11, 2018 at 10:34 pm
"We need speed and some excitement back in our air attack."
Absolutely and a significantly improved Defense.
4thand1
February 10, 2018 at 10:00 am
A good productive TE will solve a lot of WR problems. Philbin will address the TE woes.
PackEyedOptimist
February 11, 2018 at 07:12 am
Exactly; see my above comment.
EdsLaces
February 10, 2018 at 10:11 am
To anyone thinking Nelson is going anywhere they are just wrong. Nelson said last year he wasn't gonna play for a whole lot longer (not sure his exact words). So knowing that he said that there's no way he signs somewhere else. He either wears the green n gold or retires.
OrganLeroy
February 10, 2018 at 03:59 pm
He said 2-3 more years but he'll evaluate after this contract is up at the end of 2018.
Colin_C
February 10, 2018 at 04:50 pm
Some positions are harder for rookies to make an impact. WR is not one of them. I'd be okay with 1 FA brought in, but there's so many guys in college that could step in year 1. I'd rather save cap to go after and EDGE or CB players, which are much harder positions for young guys (especially EDGE). As for Cobb and Nelson, I expect Jordy to be back with a pay cut, and Cobb to be back with his current deal. He probably should be cut, as slot WR's are a dime a dozen, but his locker room presence and friendship with AR will probably keep him around.
Here's a huge sleeper pick at WR for me. Look up Steve Ishmael from Syracuse. Some how didn't get a combine invite, but put up record school numbers in receiving yards. He big, fast, physical, can get YAC, wins 50/50 balls, and makes great adjustments. He's pretty much the whole package, and no one's talking about him. Put him with a decent QB, and he'll be one of the better WR's out of this class.
stockholder
February 10, 2018 at 02:32 pm
Rookies Impact; WR is not one of them?/ I use to agree. Than they drafted Adams , Jarod , Janis, Davis. And look who didn't help from last year"s draft. (Yancy and Dupree. ) And Allison and Clark made them all look worse. TT once said more draft mistakes are made on Wrs. But look at what the hell he did. I don't look at it like Nelson and Cobb are over-paid either. I believe more people want them cut because of Adams. (They'll catch just as many passes as Adams next year. ) Making Adams LOOK BAD> But how do you push them all under a rug when nobody has shown up. I think your final words said it all. Put them with a Decent QB. A-Rod makes everyone look good. So lets just give them a break or bring back James Jones again.
Colin_C
February 10, 2018 at 03:48 pm
James Jones is my favorite player, so I'd be fine bringing him back :-) Adams WAS productive his rookie, and the other were late round picks who didn't get much playing time. The key with drafting WR's is finding guys that are athletic, but rely on technique to get open. Don't just draft a guy because he's fast. I'm fine with keeping Cobb and Nelson, but I think we need to try and inject some young talent as well. This years draft class looks like a good way to do that.
Coldworld
February 10, 2018 at 04:27 pm
Very few WRs are significantly productive as a rookie. No one on our current roster did anything significant in their rookie year. Adams showed some promise late.
Colin_C
February 10, 2018 at 04:49 pm
Well obviously not as a #1, but as a #3 or #4 they absolutely can have an impact. Look at Smith-Schuster or Cooper Kupp last year. Both were mid-round guys who thrived. Adams is our #1, and I'm sure we'll be keeping both Nelson and Cobb, contrary to what most people think. But after that a rookie has just as good a chance as anyone on the roster to crack the starting lineup. I'd rather draft some decent WR's now when we don't have to count on them as our primary option, than in a few years when the current group is aged-out.
PackEyedOptimist
February 11, 2018 at 07:15 am
I've wondered how Yancy will look in his second camp. He was a James Jones clone, and very similar to Smith-Schuster. The fact that Clark was brought up and not Yancy doesn't bode well, but maybe it lights a fire and he roars into camp... Probably wishful thinking, but the kid has TALENT.
stockholder
February 11, 2018 at 12:29 pm
Kirk wants to clean House with all WRs. Rd. 1 Christian KIRK. Rd. 2 Dj Chark Rd. 3 Dante Petine Rd.4 Daurice Fountain Rd.5 Quadree Henderson Rd. 6 Steve Ishmael Rd. 7 KaRaun White WV
Rossonero
February 10, 2018 at 11:41 am
What are your guys' thoughts about Ty Montgomery switching back to WR?
He just doesn't run like a RB, gets hurt and his sickle cell trait means it takes him longer to heal. Plus, he's younger at a position we need more youth at, and we have plenty of depth at with Jones, Williams and Mays.
OrganLeroy
February 10, 2018 at 04:01 pm
Won't and shouldn't happen.
Cubbygold
February 10, 2018 at 10:43 pm
Would you rather have him compete for a RB position? And be idol when not playing as a RB? If he's talented I'd think youd want him out there more frequently. As it stands hes not going to get many carries next year
CAG123
February 10, 2018 at 04:22 pm
I agree the main question this season was if Ty could hold up to the punishment of being a number 1 back and we got our answer but I also believe he has so much potential other than being a WR he could be a potential weapon in the offense a guy that can get you 600 yards receiving and 300 yards rushing with 8-10 total touchdowns. They need to find a way to incorporate his skill set and maximize his abilities.
croatpackfan
February 10, 2018 at 12:21 pm
"He (Gutekunst) will make a splash this off-season mainly because that is what is expected."
Who expects that? You? Some fans? I do not expect that new Packers GM make a splash this off season. I expect him to make his job in a proper way. To keep team's Salary Cap healthy and chose quality players at right price in FA and excellent talents through draft...
How he will do that? I do not know. If I would have that knowledge, I might try to find GM job for myself...
lou
February 10, 2018 at 12:58 pm
The options at WR with the existing group have been discussed to the nth degree and the new GM has to add talent to the slowest group of WR's in the NFL. In addition he has to take into consideration any changes to the offense passing game that Philbin wants to implement (Bennett was an OC in name only). The team should keep in mind the effect of a legitimate TE and a concentrated effort to get the RB's screen game improved can have on the overall passing game, it sure made a difference for both teams in this years Super Bowl. The good news lately is that both rookie WR's and TE's have made immediate impact on their teams which is not the case with many other position groups.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 10, 2018 at 01:12 pm
The most unusual aspect of this off-season is that our self-eval is far more important than usual coupled with new people in charge in the FO doing that self-eval, which makes it harder to predict the outcomes.
For example, the OL: Set at LT, LG, and OC but have questions (unusual for GB recently) at RG, RT and back -up positions. Need an accurate self-eval and projection of McCray, Murphy, Patrick, Spriggs, Amicia, Ulrick John and Pankey. PS eligibility might come into play.
We also need an accurate self-eval on our defensive front 7 guys: Biegel, Fackrell, Odom, Gilbert, and M. Adams and Lowry. Same with the CBs, Ryan and Thomas at ILB, and Marwin Evans, Whitehead, and Brice.
Finally come the production projections vs. money issues which we been mostly talking about: Cobb, Nelson, CM3, Burnett, and Bulaga.
This is probably the most interesting off-season in recent memory, and one with lots of room for reasonable disagreements.
Packer_Fan
February 10, 2018 at 02:00 pm
Keep Nelson by restructuring contract by about half. Sign a speedy receiver. Keep Janis for special teams and create a few special plays for him. Dump Davis. He is not that special. He falls down when bumped. Try to restructure Cobb, but that won't be easy. Draft a second or third round receiver. Clark needs at least another year on the practice squad. Allison or Cobb will be the sixth receiver. You get needed speed and some future potential.
Coldworld
February 10, 2018 at 04:30 pm
I’d be willing to keep Janis if they are willing to play to players strengths. They have refused to take that approach for years though. Perhaps with the new OC and playbook ...
Hawg Hanner
February 10, 2018 at 02:01 pm
You said "Let's Face It" and are keeping Nelson. That 33 year old has obviously no speed left. Look at the stats, hardly any yards after catch. Makes the catch-he can still do that- but then goes to the ground. Can no longer get separation against very average opponents. There have been some excellent videos isolating Nelson and his problems. He has hit the wall like they all do. Cobb is still a useful player but not at his 9.5 mil or whatever it is.
Coldworld
February 10, 2018 at 04:32 pm
If we want to be super bowl contenders, we have to think long and hard about filling a spot with a player who will likely not be around for the full window and not irreplaceable this year.
RCPackerFan
February 10, 2018 at 05:28 pm
So many people want to bring up that the Packers have the highest paid WR group in the NFL. This part is true. In terms of their salary, the WR's make up for 23% of their 2018 salary cap. That is a big number for 1 position. Hence why most people automatically want to release someone to save some money.
But lets look at it from outside the box. Lets take another way to look at the Packers currently salary situation and see why they may in fact keep all 3 WR's.
Lets try something. Lets combine their WR, TE and RB positions and see where they fit in.
Combining the 3 positions they make up for 26.61% of their 2018 salary cap. So between RB, and TE, they count for 3.61%.
Just as a comparison.
The Patriots are using 29.68% of their cap on those 3 positions.
Cowboys are using 28.85%.
Bucs are using 29.84%
Texans are using 30.12%
Vikings are using 23.72%
While the Packers are using a lot more salary on their WR position, but when all the skill positions are combined together they are not crazy different from other teams.
I'm not saying they won't make a move or ask one or both of the WR's to change their contracts. But I am saying that they maybe looking at things differently and that they may actually not make any changes.
flackcatcher
February 10, 2018 at 07:37 pm
Really smart take there RC. In general this comment thread is most impressive, especially about how the new GM/front office will deal with the current roster and the reality of the salary cap. For all our complaining about Ted, this is what he had to deal with over the last five years. The one thing that stands out, is Aaron Rodgers is becoming a problem for the Packers front office. Managing the cap will become extremely difficult when Rodgers signs his contract extension or new contract. It is the monster in the room. Until it's caged or killed, the Packers will not be able to go forward. For this year, it's draft or bust. There is no real choice. Nuts.
RCPackerFan
February 11, 2018 at 03:29 pm
Thanks Flackcatcher.
I think they have been preparing for a Rodgers extension. No doubt will it hurt the cap. But I think they have been really good at managing the cap.
I think they will go out and try to get some lower priced FA's. I don't think they will go crazy with high dollar guys. But who knows. Gutekunst may want to make a big statement early.
NickPerry
February 11, 2018 at 04:58 am
Good point RC but everyone of those teams doesn't have a QB to pay like Rodgers other than New England. Now I haven't looked at the entire rosters of any of those teams so I have no idea of specifics. But...
Cowboys and Dak on rookie deal....
Bucs and Winston on rookie deal....
Texans and Watson on rookie deals.
How in the hell are the Vikings at 23.72% without a QB on the roster for 2018?? If your numbers are correct on them then I love THAT stat!! LOL...
QB's on rookie deals help big time in those numbers. I'm surprised you didn't use Pittsburgh in your example though Bell isn't signed for 2018 yet. But Big Ben and Brown must make up a huge %. I'll bet it was sky high for 2017.
RCPackerFan
February 11, 2018 at 03:46 pm
yeah, I honestly all I did was looked at a few teams. I haven't had the time lately to do much more.
The numbers I used came from spotrac.com
Assuming those numbers are right.
Just looked it up. Steelers 3 positions take up 16.83%. Brown alone accounts for 9.18% of that.
Right now they have the lowest amount at their RB position. They only are using .69% on RB's. But like you said its not including Bell. Which I would assume would go up about 10% after they sign him.
Rookie QB's make a huge difference for teams. Its one of the reasons why Seattle was able to build a championship level team, and now that they had to pay their QB who was on a rookie deal, a bigger contract, their play has dropped off a bit.
Dallas, Philadelphia are in similar situations.
Spock
February 11, 2018 at 08:25 am
RC, I've thought the same thing and find the whole "overpaying the WR's" silly for the reasons you've outlined. The Packer FO looks at the cap as a whole (I believe, obviously none of us know). This is no different than the argument every year that some fans want to make at cut-down time about the "number of WR's or the number of OL, etc." If the Packers can afford what they feel are the best players on the team who cares how they do it! This makes for some interesting comment section stuff, but the cut so-and-so, make so-and-so take a pay decrease, etc. is probably everyday, same old same old, to the team FO.
RCPackerFan
February 11, 2018 at 03:57 pm
yeah, i completely agree.
Fans like to cut people and make them take paycuts.
I just like to let the teams figure it out. Green Bay has been one of the best teams at managing the cap, so I trust what they are doing.
NickPerry
February 12, 2018 at 05:45 am
"Green Bay has been one of the best teams at managing the cap, so I trust what they are doing."
I've always agreed with this. Matter of fact I used to call Thompson the best "Cap Manager" in the NFL. Obviously Ball had a little something to do with that, but those 2nd contracts to Rodgers and Nelson for example ended up being some of the best contracts in Packers history. I'd also like to add just how classy Nelson was playing through his first extension. MOST NFL players would have held out for sure making what Nelson was making while putting up those kind of numbers.
It's just recent'y where some of these deals seemed to have gotten away from them. Perry, Adams, and Lindsey are all examples of this IMO. BUT I'll say I think they did the right thing. There's no way the Packers could have let them walk.
I have a feeling if Perry can just stay healthy (we say that every year) he'll be one of the biggest winners of Pettines new scheme. IF he plays 16 games I'll say right now he'll have at least 12 to 14 sacks in this new defense.
RCPackerFan
February 12, 2018 at 06:55 am
In all honesty, they were put in no win situations with guys like Perry. You have to sign him, but don't want to take on the contract it was going to take to sign him. Luckily the cap keeps going up so its not as big of a hit.
Also to add to your list of good contracts, Mike Daniels signed a really good contract. Bakhtiari also. I think Adams is a different story then Perry. Linsley also, but closer to Perry then the Daniels type of deal.
I completely agree about Perry. If he can stay healthy. Also though. Perhaps Pettine will use him in different ways that maybe would keep him healthier longer?
Honestly, if Perry stays healthy I think he has 10+ sacks. If Mathews stays healthy I think he has 10+ sacks.
Spock
February 12, 2018 at 08:16 am
NP, Signing Adams and Linsley extensions at the end of LAST year are examples of good cap management. I'd be willing to bet it was done then to spread out the pro-rated salaries (hope I'm saying that right) over more seasons and less of a hit this year to make room for Arod's coming contract extension THIS year. For those who are complaining about Adams' deal, let's see where the WR money really comes out to be when the FA's start getting signed. Russ Ball (gasp, he's not the GM, LOL) is supposed to be really good at this. We shall see. :)
Packer_Fan
February 10, 2018 at 06:50 pm
How about this. Trade Cobb to Cleveland for they have lots of cap space. Get a veteran OL or DB for depth. And perhaps a 2018 or 2019 draft choice.
Then position has:
- Adams
- Keep Nelson and restructure
- Sign a fast FA veteran
- Keep Allison and Janis(special teams)
- Draft 2nd or 3rd round receiver for future.
- Keep developing Clark on practice squad.
Upgrade speed with long term future development.
With the trade and restructure, might get about $15 mil in cap space to pay for FA defensive help.
And by the way. We will need an aggressive approach. To me, Rodgers comments are a challenge to Pack to win now. He could demand $35 - $40 mil and kill any chance GB has to keep him. But maybe with an aggressive approach to build team around him, he might just take less and work it out.
PackEyedOptimist
February 11, 2018 at 07:25 am
I'll be very disappointed if the Packers draft a back-up (even if they think he has future-starter potential) WR with their 2nd or 3rd round picks. THIS year needs too many other positions; on offense alone, TE, G/C, and RT are ALL more important than another WR. At least the current roster has decent starters and potential at WR on the bench; TE, G and RT are looking pretty empty.
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 09:53 am
When you regularly use 3 WRs as your base set and will frequently go 4 wide, drafting a WR early who doesn't see the field very much would be a real disappointment, yes.
#laquontreadwell
#cordarellepatterson
worztik
February 11, 2018 at 11:14 am
Nice!!!
Qoojo
February 11, 2018 at 10:52 am
Cleveland would be pretty stupid to make that deal. I think when someone says sign this player or that player (fast FA vet), then the poster should mention which player specifically because that forces the person to view what is available and realize that it might not be possible, or the available players are not that big if any of an upgrade.
As far as keeping rodgers, he is under contract for 2 years, then the packers could easily use the franchise tag for 1 maybe 2 years.
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 12:42 pm
I agree: it's a fantasy football thinking trap when we feel like we can pick a trading partner out of the ether just because the Packers have a player we think they should unload and someone else has something else we want the Packers to get in return.
Packer_Fan
February 11, 2018 at 02:07 pm
At WR, we have old veterans, too much money laid out and in my opinion no real potential in the rest of the bunch. There are plenty of articles about FA vets with speed. Pack needs to free some cap space, get more speed and get future help. I have made two suggestions about Cobb. Restructure or trade. What would you do?
Qoojo
February 11, 2018 at 02:53 pm
I think Cobbs ends up on the cutting block with no trade partner, or the packers just keep him. Monty and Cobb are the slot WRs, so packers are covered if they decide to cut Cobb. I am not sure who is available in FA. Packers have enough invested in WR that it is not a priority. Pass rusher (DL/LB)/TE/CB/OL/S all come before WR. I would take Nelson over Cobb. Nelson, dubbed old or not, still got behind Panthers' D.
FA should be about providing vet depth at all those positions. Maybe at best, the packers can pickup 1 big name, but that will very unlikely be a 1st week overpaid FA signing. Packers really need to solve the TE situation more than WR.
I expect a better offense due to Philbin too.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 11, 2018 at 04:50 pm
Cobb is worth zero as trade bait.
Maybe, but I doubt he'd take a pay cut.
Packer_Fan
February 11, 2018 at 04:53 pm
My suggestions is to start redoing WR. Perhaps Cobb is just cut. Maybe Montgomery will step up. I would keep Him as RB and use him in different ways. Like Cobb was. But I think by getting some cap space from Nelson and Cobb, that like you said, the Pack can get one big FA signing.
I prefer a quality CB like Butler that takes one WR out of the game. Perhaps Randall and King will progress, but to expect either of them to be a lock down corner will just turn out like last year and this year.
Articles suggest that the Pack will trade up from 14. I say stay at 14 and move up from Rd 2 to add an extra Rd 1 pick. They have an extra 3rd rd pick and three rd 5 picks. Get and edge rusher and TE or OL.
The balance of FA pickups should be more like Evans this year. Good solid veteran help.
Qoojo
February 11, 2018 at 08:26 pm
I agree about trading up from their first pick because it is so costly.
I wouldn't be upset if they took a shot on 3 pass rushers in the first 4 rounds. If they can get a pass rusher from somewhere (maybe Gilbert steps up) and a TE, along with veteran backups, the packers will have had a great offseason.
marpag1
February 11, 2018 at 04:41 am
All of this Donte Moncrief hype is little more than herd mentality.
Point-Packer
February 11, 2018 at 10:51 am
Agreed. He’s another slow possession WR. Need speed. For once.
worztik
February 11, 2018 at 11:11 am
Y E S!!!!!
dobber
February 11, 2018 at 12:52 pm
I agree in that he has only really started to find his potential when Luck got hurt. I think you might be selling him a little short. Keep in mind that if you look up his test numbers he ran a 4.40 at the combine, his acceleration numbers were better than Cobb's, and his agility numbers were similar...he'll only be 25 when the 2018 season starts.
The possibility of a guy like him coming to GB will be mitigated by what his WR coach with the Colts thinks of him (and whether they had a good relationship): Hostler is now in GB.
Tundraboy
February 11, 2018 at 06:22 pm
Should have signed ARod to a "Lifetime" 10 year contract last time.
Royalty Free GM
February 11, 2018 at 07:24 pm
If the Green Bay PACKERS wants to win 2 Superbowls in the next 4 years they need to do this:
The Great Aaron Rodgers inks a “team friendly” 25mil/year long term deal plus a lucrative tv ads AND he wins 3 Superbowl MVPs.
He will play 5-8 more years and needs a fresh offensive WR weapon right now. Imagine what he can do with speed.
2018 Aaron’s OFFENSE:
1st round draft WR !
Draft Ridley or Sutton or Washignton. One of these will be available at 14th. If they want a particular player for sure, they need to trade up. Combined with the skills of Aaron, one of them becomes a star receiver. Who will it be?
Scenario1: Adams, Ridley/Sutton/Washington, Nelson (restructured, plays 1-2 years, wins 1 SB and retires)
Drop: cobb.
Scenario2: Adams, Ridley/Sutton/Washington, Richardson(FA)
Drop: cobb, nelson.
TE Rodgers is good enough this year with these WR combos. With a healthy Ty, RB combo will do their jobs.
With these offensive weapons, Arod will deliver TDs.
2018 Pettine’s DEFENSE:
Scenario1: 2nd round draft CB
Sign a very good veteran FA pass rusher
Scenario2: 2nd round draft Pass Rusher
Sign a very good veteran FA CB
Let DC Pettine figure out what to do with Clay&Burnett(keep or drop) plus what to get with 2nd AND 3rd AND 4th round picks(CB/Pass Rusher) and veteran FA signings (CB/Pass rusher).
If Pettine can build an average performing D# or better, Packers will win Superbowls with a healthy Aaron Rodgers.
BONUS:
Draft/sign quality not quantity. WR, CB, Pass Rusher. Aim to get THREE very good players.
If they can hit anything productive from 5th and later draft rounds it is considered as a bonus but not necessary to win.
You can’t have it all: Signing a very good veteran TE? Signing better QB protection? We should have better special teams? Don’t spend money or higher draft picks on backup QB.
Packers will rise or fall with Aaron, that’s it.
Go Pack Go
-Down vote if you agree-