Cory's Corner: These Aren't Your Daddy's Lions
The Packers aren't tough enough for the nasty Lions.
On Thursday night we got to see Jordan Love show off his deer in headlights look. The problem was, it was a stand alone game on a national stage as the Lions dump-trucked the Packers 34-20 at Lambeau Field.
Is this really the Packers’ fourth straight loss to the Lions? When did that happen? Remember when you saw the Honolulu blue and you could expect nothing more than a toothless fight?
This Lions team is very good. They want to rip right through you.
And the reason is simple: they win both the offensive line and defensive line. Granted, David Bakhtiari was placed on injured reserve hours before kickoff and Elgton Jenkins was also out. That was matched up against the starting defensive linemen of Charles Harris, Aidan Hutchinson, Benito Jones and Alim McNeil. Those four guys accounted for nine of the team’s 18 pressures and three of the team’s five sacks.
The offense looked absolutely dreadful but Love wasn’t getting any help up front. He made a pattern of looking over his shoulder.
“I think just offensively as a whole we’ve just got to start faster,” said Love, who passed for 246 yards with a passing touchdown, a rushing touchdown, two picks and a passer rating of 69.9 — the second straight game his passer rating hasn’t eclipsed 70. “We don’t start fast and we kind of get behind and it’s hard running the ball. We get put in situations where you’ve got to throw the ball. So I think we’ve just got to start faster.”
Love is 100 percent right. The Packers were left one dimensional on offense, which is why the Packers were averaging 0.1 yards per play and tallied zero first downs in the opening quarter. After Rudy Ford intercepted Jared Goff on the third play from scrimmage, the Packers passed it three times from the shotgun and only ran it twice in the first quarter.
Thanks to injuries, the Packers knew that Detroit was going to bring a tidal wave of pressure. Love didn’t get a lot of help up front and he didn’t get much help on the sideline either. Why not run more two and three step drops instead of four, five and longer drops?
It took until the 7:51 mark of the second quarter for the Packers to register a first down and that was because the Lions gave them an early Christmas gift with a neutral zone infraction, resulting in a first down. After that happened, the Lambeau Field faithful erupted with an impatient sarcastic cheer.
But of course none of that matters if the Packers are going to let David Montgomery look like Billy Sims. Green Bay has eight first round draft picks on defense and according to Next Gen Stats, David Montgomery had 113 of his 121 rushing yards after contact — a career record for the fifth-year pro.
This team is just getting gashed between the tackles. That isn’t talent, that’s effort. The Packers have to look themselves in the mirror, know who they are and who they want to be.
But in order to be a top 10 defense, allowing over 200 yards on the ground in two of the last three games is unacceptable.
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (105)
croatpackfan
September 30, 2023 at 06:20 am
There is one answer to that - MLF and Joe Barry!
With those 2, Packers will be nice and without juice to play "mens" game. Despite they have quality.
"You have to give credit to the Lions"
"We were manhandled"
"They dominated us"
"It was embarasment"
"We need to run the ball more"
"We need to be able to stop opponent running"
"We need to change lot of things"
Those are the sentence from MLF press conference last 2 and half year. And last 3 can be heard after almost every loss Packers suffer.
Where is the change? Nowhere! MLF said clearly that he want continuity!
And he get that! It is not on players!
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 11:14 am
Caro croato! I know well that what I believe isn't what packers management believes. I know it will take a few years to get rid of Lafleur and company,why? For me , he is a mediocre offensive coordinator, nothing more, full stop! To win in any team sport you need talent and quality coaching. Lafleur doesn't have the character,badness,integrity, and intelligence to bring home a championship to green bay.Many here according to me have been disillusioned by his first 3 years with 13-3 records.I don't know what will happen the next few seasons. We'll probably win 5-6 matches this year, have good positions for next year's draft. Not sure of how much money available next year with the cap. For me even with better cap management next year and with next year draft, possibly even more talent, he doesn't have the competences to bring home the Lombardi! I don't believe we can win with him. What do you think Croat?
BAMABADGER
September 30, 2023 at 11:25 am
CPF, Excellent post. We need a strong leader that teaches toughness, discipline, and aggressiveness as Packer HC, not a young man that is a good Madden 2023 player. Unfortunately, we may have the latter.
jannesbjornson
September 30, 2023 at 11:55 am
The Players exhibiting these traits have to be drafted and, or acquired. A personnel issue. Barry should have been jettisoned post-game. The light fronts invite decimation and the ILBs are not pluggers. They do not play downhill like Anzalone who still understands how to police the hook zones.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 12:04 pm
Post the Eagles game last year, since he keeps providing us with reruns
coolhand
September 30, 2023 at 01:39 pm
And on packers.com today the story is MLF is "suggesting" the defensive scheme should be looked at to stop the run. What?
Savage57
September 30, 2023 at 06:25 am
If any QB had the defensive line in his lap two seconds after the snap, they'd look like deer in the headlights, too.
The Lions have embraced the personality of their head coach. So have the Packers.
jannesbjornson
September 30, 2023 at 11:59 am
The Silver Kittens knocked the living shit out of them last January in the playoffs or bust Game. The remedy to counter their attack should have been developed in the off-season.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 12:06 pm
LaFleur has tended to be beaten by the same teams over and over in the same way throughout his career, until that team changes.
coolhand
September 30, 2023 at 01:57 pm
And now flower is saying we need to look at everything and he's "suggesting" a change to the run defense, LOL
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 06:58 am
I'm trying to figure out how MLF achieved the wins he is credited for since taking over as the HC. He hasn't learned in-game adjustments, he hasn't learned his DC buddy is a joke, his game plan seems to be based on the other team failing than his team winning.
There's a stink in the air in GB, and it isn't because of the cheese, brats, and beer. Although, it does seem to have the same after odor, like the bean eating scene from Blazing Saddles.
SicSemperTyrannis
September 30, 2023 at 07:12 am
MLF is a great HC as long as what he tries works. If it doesn't? I've never seen him adjust and find something that does, unless it's weeks later.
I'm starting to think JB may not be the worst on our coaching staff; OL coaching? Strength and conditioning coach? It's just a question of where Michael Wahle would help us the most.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 07:40 am
LaFleur isn’t a great head coach ever. He’s perhaps an OC. A head coach leads and inspires while getting the most from his coaches and players, an OC plays with Xs and Os pre game and using calls and personnel in game to achieve tactical advantages.
LaFleur is visibly terrible at hiring and getting the most from coaches. We can see what the culture is he inspires. As to him being an OC, he’s had some good ideas, but as you point out, the in game piece is questionable and he tends too often to be clearly out planned and for that to continue despite earlier losses for similar reason.
LaFleur should, with the benefit of hindsight, never have been hired. This Rodgers free season has seen the same failings of coaching decisions and play as we have seen throughout his tenure. It’s pretty obvious that this problems during Ridgers tenure weren’t on Rodgers primarily by this point.
That means Rodgers lack of another Super Bowl visit was primarily on LaFleur. We continue to see problems ignored till they blow up. Is anyone shocked that we can’t run block who watched last year or in the preseason? Was Nijman our biggest problem or was it the IOL? Was anyone unaware that running this year was understood to be particularly essential? Did anyone know that our D had an issue stopping the run?
Yes. We all did and they acknowledged it. Yet here we are again. Rather like MM, who had his great system rethink to no result before he was fired, LaFleur and his team were so busy refining their schemes and learning lessons that they couldn’t attend the Combine. Yet where are the changes that addressed the key issues that now are reappearing with extraordinary similarities?
At some point one has to look at a culture and leadership and realize that its words have no correlation with its performance. That it’s essentially unable to change or adapt. The LaFleur era saw that through the last Rodgers years and the fundamentals remain into Loves. It’s never going to change while LaFleur is here. The odd route or call tweak isn’t the issue.
The time has come for the illusion of LaFleur as a Head Coach of anything to be over. He’s a guy whose Record was Rodgers and strong rosters at times. He will beat up bad teams and lose when it matters to the extent that his players allow. Other teams know how to play him, he can’t chose or get more out of supporting coaching, so no one is going to carry him, just pull him down.
A few weeks into a season where they supposedly redid their systems the systems they revamped (evidentially minimally) are now supposedly the problem? Think about that, it’s essentially and admission that we didn’t know how to fix the acknowledged core problems and still don’t, even if one believes it’s actually the Xs-and Os, not the usage calls and personnel choices that give them effect.
LaFleur is a never was who got incredibly lucky and scammed his way on the coat tails of Rodgers and some good rosters. Even early we saw some teams repeatedly have his number. The rest of the league now knows it. He’s been outcoached in almost every big game we’ve played. It’s only those that look no further than the record that remain duped. It’s plain to see. It’s repeated. The answer increasingly valid and empty.
Murphy made a huge mistake hiring LaFleur, It wasted Rodgers and cap misery for nice words and empty blandishments amid a non winning culture and serial coaching misjudgments. It’s pretty clear why LaFleur bent over backwards to facilitate Rodgers: he knew that Rodgers was the guy who determined how far he and we went. LaFleur will now try to ride the Love development train while he wastes the talent we now have and is wasting the D investment.
This needs to end, and the end needs to be LaFleur’s. All else is tinkering. Thus staff needs to be cleared out. We need a leader, an attitude and quality sun coaches. At some point, stop believing the snake oil is real when you never get better. When you keep seeing the same outcome, it’s time to stop believing it’s fluke and won’t happen again.
Houndog
September 30, 2023 at 08:49 am
Spot-On Coldworld, I couldn't agree more, you'll likely see a lot of thumbs-down from those that can't see the facts.
With special attention to the last two paragraphs my only difference would be that I see Murphy as the culprit, he's the guy that jumped at the choice of MLF due to a few articles and/or reports of him being a Shanahan disciple.
Murphy has never understood that the Green Bay Packers are incorporated as a Football Organization, he envisions them a real estate empire, and that hopefully will serve the Packers well to a financial point. It certainly set him up, having recently purchased a golf course.
The problem is that he has nearly ignored the Football part, kinda' like a second job, making hasty and poor decisions that pale in comparison to his real estate decisions. Almost as if he's too busy to do his #1 job?
Next summer, when Murphy and his cronies climb into their motorhome to tour whatever it is they tour, tell them not to come back!
PhantomII
September 30, 2023 at 12:06 pm
ML was hired because MM was fired while still owed a significant paycheck. ML agreed to a lesser amount than MM who was still being paid. The reason ST has been so poor over the years is ST pay bump for a great ST Coach....Do we have to continue examples of how cheap our Organization is? Who holds the purse strings? We Won a lot of games before because we were not yet in CAP hell. We had a much better roster with a "MUCH BETTER OL" that was not decimated with injury yet. When BAK went down, we only needed 1-OL plugged in to make due even though LT is a big deal. We then lost our LT to injury, our Pro Bowl strong as hell OC to FA, our RT to FA then Jenkins to ACL. The DL has been in flux since Daniels got hurt and left in FA. We still have several good players but only 1 dependable one on the OL in TOM. BAK-Career is most likely done and Jenkins got hurt by our RB. Having 1-dependable OL member does not cut it in the NFL. Next man up is okay, until it's NEXT/ NEXT/ NEXT on the OL. No matter what ML is or is-not, this IS NOT getting fixed until we have large tough fellas on our OL and a couple more stopping the run on the DL. The stretch run stuff is why we get blown out by bigger stronger DL's like SF every year in the playoffs...now it's Detroit, in our own division. OL-DL is the fix cause making and closing holes is where every problem we have starts regardless of what some think about it.
croatpackfan
September 30, 2023 at 04:08 pm
What next man? They were looking at terrible, terrible OL and did what? Pray to God? They had 3 OL on the bench as back ups. If starters didn't work, did they try someone else? No, they just light up candle and have a lot of hope.
Coldworld
October 01, 2023 at 01:26 pm
That’s not true. It’s public record now that Murphy had planned to hire another coach and had had discussions before firing MM. LaFleur was Murphy’s second choice after the guy he had approached privately, Pat Fitzgerald, whom he had hired (promoted to HC) at Northwestern, turned him down, citing owing too much Loyalty to Northwestern.
PhantomII
October 01, 2023 at 03:02 pm
LOL, The point is GB was too cheap to hire a legit HC with a real HC salary, not an up and comer and first time HC who took the lesser amount just like MM's first pick turned down would have taken if he was not loyal to the guy that got him the job...but loyal to Northwestern.
Leatherhead
October 01, 2023 at 03:20 pm
Since Mighty Philadelphia just gave up over 30 on their homefield to Washington, do they suck?
PhantomII
October 01, 2023 at 04:35 pm
Every team Sucks...Sometimes.
MooPack
September 30, 2023 at 10:07 am
"At some point one has to look at a culture and leadership and realize that its words have no correlation with its performance."
Yes, absolutely.
Agree with all of this. The problem... A few wins will be pointed at as this is being corrected and leadership will be given a lifeline.
Coldworld
October 01, 2023 at 01:30 pm
Exactly what happened last year with Barry. 4 wins against teams with no offense or just bad and Barry was “turning it round” and we needed nothing more than continuity. Well we got it because nothing turned at all, just that we weren’t playing t teams capable of making it matter. And now some folks are baffled.
13TimeChamps
September 30, 2023 at 10:33 am
"That means Rodgers lack of another Super Bowl visit was primarily on LaFleur."
I am so sick of this argument. Rodgers was the starting QB for 15 years, the last 4 with the current coaching staff. He's been to ONE Super Bowl.
Who's fault was it when he didn't reach the Super Bowl in:
2008
2009
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018
Rodgers has a documented history of choking in NFCC games. Look up his playoff record post 2010. That's why he's only been to one Super Bowl.
This isn't a defense of MLF. It's a clarification of why Rodgers hasn't been able to secure more than one Lombardi over his 15 years of being QB1 for the Green Bay Packers.
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 11:06 am
It seems you forgot about the complaints, by the masses, about MM's predictable play calling, in-game adjustments, and other predictable things on Defense, which led to the discord with him and Rodgers.
The same issues appear to be in place, except for one thing, and it cannot be said, that one thing didn't carry both HCs. A statement that is gaining a real acceptance with each game played, even by the deniers. Will things change, IDK, but we'll get to see, one way or another, every week.
13TimeChamps
September 30, 2023 at 11:35 am
You're right, I should have remembered MM's shortcomings. So I guess that means that all of Rodger's lack of post season success is BECAUSE of coaching, but his incredible regular season success, 4 MVPs et al, is IN SPITE of that same coaching.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 11:37 am
No, but one can certainly point to coaching decisions in the post-season that hurt the chances for victory, while not ignoring Rodgers fails either.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 12:18 pm
The point of hiring a Head Coach is not to perpetuate past weaknesses. It may take a while to change the nature of a team inherited, but by year 3 that’s long expired as an excuse. If it’s still an issue, that’s evidence that we hired the wrong guy.
But objecting that it was the same under McCarthy is truly a terrible justification or excuse for LaFleur by this point.
In fact it just suggests that the belief that off field held back the players is even stronger. Of course with Murphy letting Ball run the roster, and gut it, we knew that was true. That was a visibly bad team and roster by MMs departure.
Unfortunately Murphy chose to rebuild with a coach who wasn’t up to it without a full search when his friend turned him down it now transpires. It’s a relief at least that we aren’t mired in that friends legal and reputational woes.
Packerpasty
September 30, 2023 at 06:57 pm
I'll take MM back again...a step up from MLF...not much of one but a step up...
stockholder
October 01, 2023 at 03:56 pm
After they get MLF Fired.
MM will be the front Runner.
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 11:42 am
The fault is of only Thompson, understood or no? He never ever gave him a competent defence, never! He gave him a great offence but not the defence in arods prime. Remember this! Arod carried the pack on his back mate! 30,35,40 points scored were never enough to get to the super bowl! Always remember!
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 11:48 am
My response was for 13 times champs. Rodgers choked in his later years, not his prime years, the culprit was Thompson, yes him. He never gave him a competent defence!
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 11:29 am
I don't know, Stenovich oc? No. Stenovich should be coaching the offensive line. That's is trade. Unfortunately it will take a few years to get rid of the dried out 'THe FLOWER' We don't have an owner, it will take a few years to get rid of this mediocre oc .He doesn't have the competences,badness,authority,He's a wuss! Creativity and genius to win!
TxFred
September 30, 2023 at 08:54 am
Am wondering, if MLF has been "Peter Principaled" Promoted beyond his skill level. Good OC. Not HC.
Assistants not teaching details, techniques on OLine. Makes no difference who's playing. Young & talented players STILL need to learn fundamental.
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 12:17 pm
Brava Tarryn, well said, love!
Packerpasty
September 30, 2023 at 06:53 pm
thats easy, AR got him many of those wins, AR pitching and DA catching...without those two MLF sucks..
ReaganRulz
September 30, 2023 at 07:24 am
Chill for those of you ready to jump off Granite Peak. Yes, last week was ugly. We got crushed in every aspect of the game. And sure, there are some things that are a little worrisome. Life is not perfect. Even the dude that poured his beer on St. Brown. That was total alcohol abuse and something a Wisconsonite should NEVER do. It was probably an Illinois Packer fan :).
We are only 4 weeks in. There are signs of hope found within our first 4 games. If we were 0-4 now then maybe the negative-o-meter should be much higher. Lets see how we rebound from this.
Savage57
September 30, 2023 at 08:21 am
Au contraire. Any opposing player who sullies the Lambeau Leap and the fans who welcome them should be showered with whatever's on hand; beer, soda, chili, piss, D-batteries, puke, et al, in mass quantities as a disincentive to discourage them from repeating that unconscionable act.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 08:35 am
This team will win games but it won’t be a team of winners until LaFleur and his staff are gone. If all you want is to be contender to contend in the North, then continue the farce, don’t fix the problems and waste talent assembled and don’t worry about losses to good teams. It’s ok, ignore the bad and take solace from wins over teams that are injured or just not good.
We are so much better because we beat the Bears or another bottom dweller. That’s what deference and rose tinted glasses get you. Last year we beat 4 poor or gutted teams and the cry was Barry had turned it around. That was mind numbing homerism then and it looks dumber now.
We knew we needed to run the ball but instead focused on messing around with our best run T and refused to tackle the known problem inside. Just 2 issues that now seem to be beyond LaFleur to explain. We got continuity and he will give us much more as long as every time we beat a bad team people keep believing we’ve changed. We haven’t ever in LaFleur’s tenure.
We are still the team that the 49ers had bested, that got blown out in the playoffs repeatedly for similar reasons or for ones like Drayton we all knew were likely. The bubble is burst. Deference when the evidence screams otherwise is nothing but the bleating of sheep. LaFleur is an empty vessel. It’s time to pay it off.
Houndog
September 30, 2023 at 09:01 am
I warned you Coldworld, the blind leading the blind!
Some people can't see the forest from the trees.
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 11:10 am
The 'blind optimists' have been saying that about me for years.
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 12:22 pm
Unfortunately Murphy doesn't see it this way,don't know what gute thinks of the flower and co.!
SinceLombardi
October 01, 2023 at 04:44 pm
Sorry, I don’t want to hear we are only 4 games in… we are 5 years in , and MLF has shown nothing to make anyone think he is a championship quality coach. Maybe a nice guy, but probably better suited to be an offensive quality control geek.
We scored 1 , yes 1 opening drive TD last year. We always go two plus quarters of sleepwalking football on both sides of the ball. He gave us Mo Drayton and Joe Barry. He choked up two #1 seeds.
Anything less than a wildcard this year and this entire staff should be gone.
Rebecca
September 30, 2023 at 07:37 am
Ok, so we’ve heard that the Lions are roaring and our Packers are cowering. It just boils down to coaching, availability, execution. If the coaching and personnel are underperforming in a predictable way, then that’s on management. Now we’re hearing that injuries and inexperience are a huge factor, yet we knew this going into the season. So now we are stuck with the status quo. Embarrassing but not unexpected by some. The lack of competitiveness shows us what kind of coaches we have. The Thursday evening episode was not entertaining and not worth the subscription.
stockholder
September 30, 2023 at 07:51 am
Mike Daniels recently said,
"There is a fine line between Nasty and dirty”.
And it kept us out of the super-Bowl.
So who thought the defense was going to carry
Them to the play-offs? I didn’t!!
And point to those 8 first rd. Picks all you want.
Because it only puts the Blame on Gutey.
You only have to look at the draft mistakes.
The timing of his picks. The passes.
And the Lions gobbled them up.
Point: Alim McNeil- Tested better than Raji.
Point: Taking a scheme fit over a need. SS
Point wasting draft picks.
There is No reason for the head of the packers
Scouting staff to be so bad and miss rookies of the year.
And as much as we can coach up Love.
It put us out of the super-Bowl.
Gutey is in charge of this roster.
Put the blame where it belongs.
Because you’ll just keep firing coaches when
The problem was at the top to begin with.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 08:40 am
This roster is not and prior rosters were not the main issue. In each year of LaFleur we have under performed the talent available except the first year perhaps. That’s not in Gute. That’s not what undermined Rodgers chances of a Super Bowl. It’s the coaching at all levels that took this team down the road to nowhere. Until you realize that and get over your Gute obsession, you will always miss the point despite seeing the existence of the issue.
Gute’s biggest mistake would be his strength if we had had good coaches. He gives his coaches what they want to achieve their Vision. It’s not a secret, he’s given Pettine, LaFleur, Barry, Stenovich the pieces they openly wanted. That they can’t use them (Deguara, Amari) or they aren’t the right types (DL mix) or aren’t used as foreseen (Tom, Dillon) is on them. No GM bats close to 100, but there’s far more at play here with the non or mid use of coach sought types. It still strikes me that it took Gute to get Amari and Watkins off the field.
stockholder
September 30, 2023 at 10:07 am
No way - The last two drafts filled the vacancy.
Until that it was WR, ILB, and DL. (Needed)
He had his chances prior to the last two.
Get off the MLF hate. The new Love Era.
open your eyes.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 10:18 am
LaFleur couldn’t get it done with Rodgers. Barry can’t get it done in the same way repeatedly. The OL players are regressing and personnel choices continually baffling . We need to run but take no steps to support that. Nothing is cohesive but that and our failings are continuity writ large. That’s on LaFleur. It’s not hate it’s realization. LaFleur wasted Rodgers and now he will do the same with Love. The same failings repeating.
barutanseijin
September 30, 2023 at 11:33 am
Go on any team site and fans are bitching about the coaches and coordinators. Even Bear fans, and that team has next to zero pro talent. You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
Fans have an emotional attachment to the players that goes beyond the rational. They’re fanatics after all. Fans are still explaining away poor performances from lovable yet below replacement level schlubs like Justin Fields, Jace Sternberger or AJ Dillon, saying they just weren’t used correctly. They’re schlubs! Fail is what they do.
Teams like SF, the Giants & now Detroit have kicked Packers ass by beating them up with bigger , stronger, quicker players. That is mostly a scouting/team architecture issue that has been present since TT became GM. Even under Shermie the Packers were able to run over people with Ahman Green & the U71 package. That was great, but Shermie’s teams never got to a Super Bowl.
jannesbjornson
September 30, 2023 at 12:13 pm
Preach it ! There would be better Players on the O line if OT was addressed in 2022-23 from the top end.
stockholder
October 01, 2023 at 05:33 pm
SO YOU'D CHANGE THE DRAFT FROM VANESS
TO JONES. JONES ISN'T STARTING.
Mauch would have to be taken before Kraft.
The bigger question is why Reed?
The internet wanted Jaxon Smith. @13
I felt Hyatt will be a better slot player
Yet trading the #45 for 50 gave Branch away.
And I felt DJ Turner would be better than Branch.
Simpson dropped because of his ankle.
He can't beat out whats in Front of him.
Still Balt. won the 3rd rd.
BAMABADGER
September 30, 2023 at 08:07 am
A picture is worth a thousand words. Lions DT #94 looks like he’s at a smorgasbord deciding which to eat first. He’s looking down thinking.
“Dang, boy. None of ‘em got no meat!”
fireball
September 30, 2023 at 08:31 am
The defense in 2021 under Joe Barry in his first year as defensive coordinator. . . ended in the NFL top ten! So what the hell has happened since then? Was that top ten rating mainly, completely, a carry-over from the previous DC, Mike Pettine?
Even more so with Matt LaFleur, his first three seasons as head coach of the Packers were considered " historic " in number of wins. So, again, what the hell has happened since then? Was that three year winning record mainly, maybe completely, due to having a hall-of-fame quarterback and a top receiver by the name of Davante Adams on the team?
Granted, last year's bad offense did not have Adams. And this year's bad offense does not have the hall of fame quarterback either.
So, I'm just sort of wondering. . . and asking. . . What the hell is going on?
Houndog
September 30, 2023 at 09:07 am
Any "Winning Culture" will die over time without proper leadership, look to Murphy, Kutekunst, and MLF and you'll have your answer to "What the hell happened".
SinceLombardi
October 01, 2023 at 06:04 pm
in his first three seasons MLF was carried by the Rodgers/Adams combo. Since Adams left MLF has won only a handful of games.. almost half of them against the Bears
PackBacker
September 30, 2023 at 08:39 am
One thing that could have been pointed out in the article but wasn't: All those decades of cellar dwelling have finally paid off for the Lions.
This was always going to be a transitional year for the Packers. So let Detroit fans celebrate while they can. It's not going to be a very long party. Cap space, maturing young talent and hopefully some management changes in 2024 will shut down their party while it's barely even getting started.
As for this season, it will be fun watching San Fran or Philly open up Detroit like a can of tuna in the playoffs.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 09:06 am
We went into that game knowing we had to stop the run and knowing we could take on their secondary. We started with 6 straight passes with deep targets that encouraged the Lions to just go after us—Campbell said that expressly right after the game. That set the tone. We never seriously tried to establish a run game (12 carries) either because we just admitted defeat or presumably felt we didn’t need to to pause the rush. Either is pathetically poor thinking.
On D we again went light, even on our goal line. We matched up players appallingly badly if stopping Montgomery mattered—it’s not like we don’t know him as a player. Putting players in a position to fail is a very last resort not a plan. Atlanta taught us nothing, again.
We singularly failed, for the second time in 3 games, to stop the run. We singularly failed to establish the run and we hide behind injuries to explain away the failure to protect a QB while trying to throw long almost exclusively. We played Runyon with an injury, rather than bring in Rhyan or move Tom and bring in Nijman or Jones. It just goes on and on.
That is not good coaching. It’s not improving coaching it’s the same fundamental lessons being retaught and unlearned. It’s the scheme …. No, it’s the coaches and coaching.
coolhand
September 30, 2023 at 02:05 pm
Bad coaching for me goes back to the NFCC game against Tampa. When Bakh got hurt, what was the coaching response on the O line? That told me everything I needed to know about MLF and his staff. MLF is NOT a championship caliber coach.
Houndog
September 30, 2023 at 09:14 am
PackBacker,
NO!
I live in the SF Bay area, Santa Cruz, and it is no fun watching the 49er's look like gangbusters while the Packers wallow in mediocrity while looking lost. It ain't for lack of talent.
Yes, the 9er's got lucky with Brock Purdy, but you could swap QBs and they'd still kick our a$$! Its coaching!
PackBacker
September 30, 2023 at 09:33 am
I live in San Antonio and the team I've despised more than any other for decades is the Dallas Cowboys. You can't walk 100 feet in this town without seeing someone in a Cowboys t-shirt. It makes me want to vomit. I'm sure you can understand exactly what that's like.
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 11:59 am
For curiosity, I googled to see when Detroit won its last championship! It was in 1957! Just think for a moment. In their history they have won 4 national championships. Other than our 60,70,and 80s.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 12:25 pm
They are, I believe from memory, the only team existing throughout its history never to have played in a Super Bowl. I think the new Browns and the Jags and Houston expansion franchises are the others.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:43 pm
I'm not sure about that. I'm no fan of Detroit, but I mightily respect what Dan Campbell has done with his team, He's assembled one of the best coaching staffs in the league. He inspires his players to fight. And he did all of this to the second-worst franchise in NFL history. The Lions will be no easy out because of their toughness.
I believe the Packers CAN be a great team once again, but doing so will require a new, tougher HC. A true leader of men, like a Campbell or a Vrabel. This team has no chance with the soft, eyebrow-waxing MLF
SinceLombardi
October 01, 2023 at 06:08 pm
I don’t agree. Five years into the MLF era and it’s becoming painfully obvious he’s not the guy.
They say Barry is running a Vic Fangio style defense.. HELL we had a chance to get Fangio this off-season, but we elected to go with the failure from 2022 Joe Barry.
TxFred
September 30, 2023 at 08:49 am
Very soft. Even their penalties were passive. Illegal procedure, off sides. How about aggressive penalties. Roughing the passer, horse collar, heck even a basic pass interference. Show some anger, toughness. If not teams know you'll accept getting your face pushed in, then the league will have no respect, they all know they can do whatever they want, this hasn't the nuts to stand up & smash them right back. Long, long season. You can change this get an aggressive attitude & fight back. !!!
GPG
NickPerry
September 30, 2023 at 09:23 am
Watching this Packers offense NOT just THIS year with Jordon Love, but really since last year WITH Aaron Rodgers , this offense always seems to be stuck in mud. It seems like every single yard they gain is difficult as hell. Now this season I EXPECTED things to be tough... AT TIMES. But as the Packers put more and more on film offensively the defenses will adjust. The Packers BIGGEST problem (and has been since 2019) is making adjustments. MLF just CAN'T do it.
What MLF and the rest of his staff can't do either is seem to put the best 5 O-Linemen on the field at the same time. There is NO WAY IN HELL you can tell me without Bakhtiari and Jenkins Yosh Nijman isn't one of the 5 best...NO WAY! Yet Nijman still isn't in the starting lineup. He didn't play a single offensive snap Thursday Night.
Stenavich is a O-Line coach. He's NOT an offensive coordinator/run game coordinator. Butkus at best is an assistant O-Line coach right now, not an O-Line coach. Ryan Mahaffey, the Packers Asst. O-Line coach is another on of MLFs "Who in the hell is he" coaching hires. Since the day Matt LaFleur was hired and announced his coaching staff I've been concerned about the staff he's assembled... I mean Joe Barry, back for 2023...Common man, need I say more.
Gute took over a mess in 2018 when Ted got sick, and now doesn't have the control he should have. Nope, when Ted was replaced so was the WAY the Packers GM was allowed to operate since the day Bob Harlon hired Ron Wolf. Now we have a team president who really has the final say on many of the things the GM used to and should have final say over. Now I'm not saying Gute has been perfect, he's mucked up some things along the way, but he DIDN'T hire LaFleur and IMO never would have.
People can blame Gute all they want. I DON'T. Has he hit on every pick? No, and neither has any other GM in the NFL. But IMO Gute has absolutely been on fire especially these last few drafts. This team DOES have talent. They actually have LOADS of it.
On the Packers current 53 man roster, 26 of them are rookies or 2nd year players. They have another 13 on a practice squad of 16. That means folks of the 69 players the Packers have available to them, 39 are either rookies or 1st year players. These players NEED the coaching to become the next Rodgers, Davante Adams, David Bakhtiari's, or Tramon Williams of this great franchise.
Until some things change, my concern now isn't what happens next Sunday or Monday, it's what happens to all these youngsters who are being coached by the who's who in the hell are you, and Mark Murphy.
SHIT!!!
Leatherhead
September 30, 2023 at 10:03 am
"""Watching this Packers offense NOT just THIS year with Jordon Love, but really since last year WITH Aaron Rodgers , this offense always seems to be stuck in mud"""
You could go back to the playoff game with SF that we lost. 22 games now where we've been a very, very, average offense. That's not the Green Bay Way.
Since that lost, we've replaced almost the entire passing offense. Adams, Lazard, MVS, EQ, Tonyan, ARod....all gone, replaced by Watson, Doubs, Reed, Musgrave and Love. It's going to take some time. And we're going to have to fix the offensive line so that we have time to show off our passing game.
I'm not worried. A whole lotta football left in this season. Let's see how things look around Thanksgiving.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Couldn't have said it better myself. Add in the fact that Nijman was the best run blocking OT last year, and for a line with run blocking issues, I can't understand why the coaching staff won't play him
stockholder
September 30, 2023 at 02:51 pm
Nick it's time you look at How many Lions
Fans were at Lambeau Field.
The Most anyone has ever seen!
That isn't on the coaching staff.
It's on Gutey.
His GM moves have changed the scenery!
NickPerry
September 30, 2023 at 05:11 pm
I understand that. But that's NOT on Gutey...
The "Scenery" changes EVERY 2nd and 5th home game on the Packers schedule. THOSE are "Gold Package" games where the Milwaukee fans are supposed to be there and most games on SUNDAYS they are. But on a Thursday or Monday Night game, (well just Mondays back then) that's something Bob Harlon tried to make sure NEVER happened with the schedule makers. With Murphy, since 2018, all kind of SHIT like that happens. Murphy has done a LOT of good things. But at the end of the day he's NO Bob Harlon.
Those folks in most cases on a work night are going to sell or give those tickets "Gold Tickets" to Packers fans. But more and more people are paying RIDICULOUS money and the visiting team is buying them up. Hey, if you have 4 season tickets and somebody offers you $500 a piece for them are you going to give a damn who's buying them?
Ummm...For most of those season ticket holders the answer is a resounding HELL NO...Especially with the cost of living rising faster than anytime I can remembers in a long time.
THAT is WHY you say all those blue jerseys in the stands!
stockholder
September 30, 2023 at 07:17 pm
Nick -I'm not buying that-
The point spread and the hype
wouldn't stop anyone from going.
At least not the true packer fans
I use to know.
BAMABADGER
September 30, 2023 at 09:50 am
I have a feeling MLF is great at Madden 2023. That’s all.
Coldworld
October 01, 2023 at 01:33 pm
The wax would surely cause problems
MooPack
September 30, 2023 at 09:56 am
I'm going to beat this dead horse.
FEAR!
Fear is what is driving aspects of this team. Fear of adjusting. Fear of trusting inexperienced players. Fear of giving up the big plays on defense. Fear of turnovers on the offense. These are going to happen, but fear of them is a team killer. Players can sense that from coaches and their schemes and hence it trickles down. Other teams can smell it permeating the Packers players.
Matt "Gekko" LeFluer: "I am not a builder of teams. I am a cheerleader of them! The point is, ladies and gentleman, that fear, for lack of a better word, is good. Fear is right, fear works. Fear clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of our players spirit."
Spoff had a good article on Packers website:
https://www.packers.com/news/packers-run-defense-undergoing-extensive-sc...
Problem is this should have happened a long, long time ago. Stop telling us what need to happen and do it.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:38 pm
I'll be surprised if anything changes with the run D, though, with Barry's and MLF's track records.
Packers0808
September 30, 2023 at 09:58 am
I wonder of all the Chief Fans went after their coach as much as our arm chair coaches go after LaFleur when the Chiefs lost to the Lions. Maybe Kansas City doesn't have all the football coach experts in their fans as do the all knowledgable Packer fans are.
TOMMY'63
September 30, 2023 at 12:13 pm
Come on mate,the chiefs have excellent management, coaching staff and a very good roster. We don't have the quality of their fo and coaching staff. We have talent on the roster, very young and upcoming youth, but not the quality coaching to guide and develop our youth, sad but true
Packers0808
September 30, 2023 at 12:56 pm
Point is do they? Been a Packer fan since 1958 and every coach, yes even Lombardi was criticized by the all knowing Packer fans. Point is the criticism never ends, because the Packers are ownned by the community so many think they are football geniuses and usually who same ones over and over again!
coolhand
September 30, 2023 at 02:14 pm
The difference is the Chiefs, though not playing that well, were still competitive and in that game right until the end. On TNF, the Packers were NEVER in the game and everyone knew it
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 12:32 pm
The Chiefs fans would have that were a repeating pattern. There’s a difference in going after a clear and pervasive set of patterns of repeating failure and losing a game.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:36 pm
Reid has won two SB rings. MLF inherited a SB-worthy team and made it mediocre, at best. Reid doesn't coach a soft team and cry at all of the press conferences.
Reid also doesn't make bone-headed decisions, like hampering the talent of your defense with the WORST DC in the league and keeping the #1 run blocking OT on the bench (Nijman) when your OL has run blocking issues.
Leatherhead
September 30, 2023 at 09:58 am
You go ahead and get on the Lions bandwagon. I'll be the one laughing like a madman when the wheels come off, and they always come off.
Houndog
September 30, 2023 at 11:00 am
I'll be laughing with you, Leatherhead, as will most others, and that could happen.
But it doesn't change the fact that the Packers looked like boys against men on Thursday night.
Leatherhead
September 30, 2023 at 01:06 pm
We didn't look good. That doesn't mean the Lions are all that and a bag of chips.
The Lions have won on the road against KC and GB. That doesn't happen very often and I give them credit. But it's September, and you don't win the division in September. Ask the Vikings.
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 01:31 pm
And you, at times, dare to call others extreme. LOL
PhantomII
September 30, 2023 at 02:10 pm
AGAIN...The Lions have shown everyone but you how important it is to: "STOP THE RUN". These games will continue to play out the same until our Defense can reliably stop the run and get 3 N outs at a decent clip. Conversely our Offense needs to be able to run the rock...against "ANYONE"...Yea, that's not gonna happen without a lot better, stronger, tougher OL added thru draft or FA. We will continue to do better against lesser NFL teams and struggle against ones that benefit from our biggest issues. Pretty sure Nijman and Rhyan would do better.
lou
September 30, 2023 at 10:01 am
It looked like Mike McCarthy's offense in his last season in the first half, drop back and throw it down after down even if they stop us and doing it knowing how effective their 4 man pass rush was and not considering how banged up the Packers offensive line was. Or on the other hand was this an indication by MLF that his team flat out can't run the football effectively ?
Leatherhead
September 30, 2023 at 10:04 am
It's an indication that we have a backup LT, a backup LG, and a RB that is injured and on a pitch count.
Coldworld
September 30, 2023 at 10:31 am
We have a LT that kept Rodgers upright sitting in the bench. Meanwhile our middle is a revolving door. We knew that was a weakness we did nothing but instead tinkered at RT. The end is sometimes obvious. In the meantime we have twice in 3 weeks repeated the mistakes we made against the Eagles to the same effect and 400 plus yards on the ground.
Why? Because it doesn’t work. Blame the players? Maybe, but I’d blame the coaches that go light first. Asking those guys to stop the run is asking them to play against body and type. That’s a desperation exception, not a strategy to win.
What makes you think that changes next time we play Detroit? Do you think they won’t have a rush (4 man rushed all game did that). Do you think they won’t run the ball? Hell, our next game is the Raiders. They have a runner worth not overlooking too and at least one WR. They are not a good team, but they don’t seem a good matchup for Barry.
At some point you have to open your eyes, surely. It’s not one offs it’s repeating in a loop. Just waiting for teams that can exploit it. That’s the calling sign of a bad team. In this case I think it’s pretty clear that the roster is better than the play, that makes it coaching, top down.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:34 pm
So many coaches in the league are able to get more out of less from their players. If Campbell or Vrabel was coaching this team, I believe we could be one of the better playoff teams this year. Of course, MLF is the opposite
Leatherhead
September 30, 2023 at 01:00 pm
How is our interior offensive line a revolving door? Myers and Runyan have played pretty much every snap. I think you meant "like a turnstile", as in "not stopping anyone", which is, of course, also untrue.
The next time we play Detroit, in two months, the only thing I'm sure of is that we'll have two different teams. People will get injured, people will get healed, people will play hurt, people will improve.
I disagree with the "go heavy to stop the run", for reasons I have detailed many times before. If you've got Fields, or Hurts, or Russell Wilson running around, the last thing you need are bigger, slower guys on the field.
We play a 4-2-5 nickel when we can. Two DL with two edge rushers.....and that's usually a pretty good 4 man crew. Then we play two backers....Walker and Campbell, when he's healthy. Then we play three corners and two safeties.
If we're playing Gary, Clark, Wyatt, and VanNess , backed up by Walker and Campbell, with Alexander, Douglas, and Stokes at the corner, and Savage and Ford at safety, who do you take off t he field to make room for another big body?
Seriously. I'd really like to know. If we put another big body in , who comes off? Probably our 3rd corner, right? Doesn't that make us MORE vulnerable to the pass.....which covers more yards?
I've got a lot of downvotes for this, but nobody has given me a good explanation as to why we'd want to sacrifice pass defense for more run defense when passes account for more yards and more points than runs.
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 01:26 pm
A revolving door is like a turnstile, you just couldn't see the context in which it was meant, on purpose, just to say something.
lou
September 30, 2023 at 11:36 am
Even that being the case MLF continued to want to chuck it down field when swing passes or wheel routes to the RB's or digs to the TE's are the obvious changes to slow down the pass rush as was pointed out several times by Herbstreit it took forever for him to act and he had 2 RB's without pitch counts to utilize in that manner.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:37 pm
Watching his offensive gameplan (or lack thereof) was almost amusing. He must not know what the words "situational football" mean.
coolhand
September 30, 2023 at 02:20 pm
MLF looks to be coaching by "ANALytics" and not by what is happening on the field.
jannesbjornson
September 30, 2023 at 12:40 pm
Apparently, the guy doesn't know a Draw, or Trap concept.
TarynsEyes
September 30, 2023 at 01:27 pm
Can't use this as an excuse when you get a win from a team with the same situation.
WD
September 30, 2023 at 10:47 am
Observations. It is easy to complain, but what specifically can be done to 1) stop the run and 2) improve the O-Line? To stop the run perhaps some new schemes are needed? For example maybe use a middle LB in a 4-3-4? On offense, maybe a bigger body like Caleb Jones could help? The only thing he is learning on the practice squad is how to drink water. I think it is clear that in next years draft we need to address the O-line particularly Center and Guard. Finally a safety who can tackle like a LB. In the mean time, why not try Van Ness at Middle LB in a 4-3-4? This is similar to what Dallas does with it's superstar rusher. Moreover, Rashad Gary needs to play all four downs. He has been babied long enough. He says he is ready to play . Play him. Finally, what have we got to lose? Insanity is repeating the same mistakes again and again and getting the same results. I am not happy with our DC and ultimately his boss MLF who has to be held accountable as well.
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:31 pm
Play Nijman at LT. He was the number one run blocking OT last year, and his pass blocking was best on the left side. Move Tom to Center and move Walker to RT, where he played in college. Trying out mr. man-mountain Jones wouldn't hurt. I would love to see him used as an extra TE on run blocking plays. I believe he's on the active roster as well.
I don't know if Van Ness has enough sideline-to -sideline mobility to play MLB. I think he'd be better is he was played as a hand-in-the-dirt DE more, like in college. His speed and power though, could be maximized from a stand-up stance, too. Also, if anything, I think the Packers should have more DL rotation, not less. In 2013, the year Seattle won the SB, none of their DL played more than 60 percent of snaps. Their defense limited the Broncos record setting offense to 8 points in the SB.
Nothing will be fixed, though, unless LaFleur is fired
coolhand
September 30, 2023 at 02:21 pm
We have a safety that can hit like a LB, Innes Gaines, yet he's on the PS
PackyCheese500
September 30, 2023 at 12:27 pm
There is only one way to fix this team. Fire the imposter of a HC that is Matt LaFleur. He does not have what it takes to be a HC. We need a real leader of men to lead this team, a Campbell or a Vrabel, not an eyebrow-waxing sissy. LaFleur is a soft coach, and this is a soft team.
Not only is this team soft, but some of their coaching decisions are downright idiotic. Continuing to play Newman and Myers is coaching malpractice. I distinctly remember one play when Love was sacked, when Newman was starting to lose his block and then, instead of trying to stop the defender after he was beat, just stood there. That poor effort would NOT be tolerated by a Campbell or a Vrabel, but LaFleur puts up with it.
Also, with all of the complaints about run-blocking, I'm surprised the coaching staff hasn't thought to play Nijman at LT. After all, he was THE NUMBER ONE OT in ESPN's run block win rate last year. He was also top 10 in Pass block win rate for most of the year (which is even more impressive considering he was doing it mostly at RT, a position he hadn't practiced at since college), but he fell out after he had to defend Jaelan Phillips, Danielle Hunter, and (especially) Aidan Hutchinson with one arm. PLAY NIJMAN! I would argue that he may be the best healthy OT on the team right now. Especially at LT, where his pass blocking was even better.
Also, move Tom to Center. The Myers experiment has failed, move on. Play Rhyan at Guard, too. Move Walker to RT, where he played in college.
The Packers and the Lions are two teams on different trajectories. One was a dumpster fire that now has been reshaped into a physical, well-coached team. The other was a Super Bowl contender that is now a soft, undisciplined team on a downward trajectory.
Even though I supported the decision to trade Rodgers (for salary cap reasons), I never believed he was the one to blame. Now my suspicions are only being vindicated. If LaFleur is not fired at the end of the season, this team has no chance.
PhantomII
September 30, 2023 at 01:55 pm
We lost with AR because when you play physical teams like SF you need to be able to run the ball. ML 2x shut down the run game in the playoffs due to 1-RB injury either Jones or Dillon. We never had a physical down hill run game, ML system is stretch run with smaller, more athletic blockers who are also decent in pass game. Since our OL was always undersized against a heavy pass rush, we relied on TE's blocking instead of running routes which limited the number of WR's on the field and the RB was usually blocking for QB1 also. Our ST was horrible also. Despite all of these handicaps QB1 was also fickle about throwing to anyone not named DA. 2 playoff games were lost by QB1 not running it in from 7 yards out and not going thru reads and throwing to an open WR even after the ST meltdown fiasco. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Packers1985
September 30, 2023 at 04:02 pm
"There is plenty of blame to go around." Agreed it's becoz of multiple reasons and also untimely injuries didnt help the cause either like loosing bakh right before playoffs and MVS in 2021 divisional round. But things that worry is some of the things that continue till today like too much shuffling of the oline and and once the rhythm developed again changing the line in the name of best 5 olinemen this happened in 2021 divisional round which definitely didnt help the cause.
Coming to this "WR even after the ST meltdown fiasco" it's shouldn't have come to this as we all know how poor out ST's played that yr and many shared their concerns in this very forum about the ST's will definitely cost us down the road but again nothing was done. Whom to be blamed for this?
Packerpasty
September 30, 2023 at 06:59 pm
MLF doesn't have the chops to be a head coach in the NFL...always full of excuses and fire and brimstone...AFTER the game...im sure his players dont respect him that much, way too soft on the sidelines...
WD
September 30, 2023 at 04:19 pm
Some great ideas Packy for the O-line that should be considered . Yet we won't know unless they are tried. Let's see what MLF comes up with. I am sure no one was more frustrated than him. I suspect he is exploring all options as we speak. It is beginning to sound like a lynch mob out there. Many analysts expected Green Bay to be a 500 team this year. So, a little patience is needed. From what I saw Detroit is a strong contender for the Superbowl. Beating Kansas city Chiefs in the opener was not a fluke. They will destroy a lot of teams this year.
LeotisHarris
October 01, 2023 at 09:38 pm
I'm sitting here in the privacy of my own home enjoying the Monday night contest between the reigning Super Bowl Champions and the New York Jets. The game is taking place near Taylor Swift, and that seems important to the folks at NBC ::shrug::, but I digress. The Chiefs are not playing well. At all. Their all-world QB is throwing passes to the Jets. Sad! I can't be certain, but it looks as if Andy Reid has started waxing his eyebrows, and that Pat Mahomes has taken on the personality of Matt Nagy. Robert Saleh continues to look really tough, but sad sometimes, so I think his team has taken on his personality.
What this game has revealed so far is that the Dee-Troit Lions are better than mediocre NFL teams. Yes, they've bested the soft Packers, the listless Falcons, and Super Bowl Hangover afflicted Chiefs. They couldn't handle the Seahawks. So, before we hand the Halas Trophy to the Lions and award Dan Campbell NFL Coach of the Year Honors, let's see how this season plays out. These may not be the Lions of old, but they haven't beaten anyone yet.