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Cory's Corner: Trade Highlights Packers' Misses

On Friday evening, the Packers proved that a mistake was made in 2015.

Damarious Randall was traded for DeShone Kizer in a move that will likely end Brett Hundley’s tenure in Green Bay. The Packers also moved up in the fourth and fifth rounds by swapping picks with the Browns.

This ends an inconsistent career for Randall, but it also sheds light on a larger Packers’ problem: first round misses. These are the Packers’ last six first round picks: 2011 Derek Sherrod, 2012 Nick Perry, 2013 Datone Jones, 2014 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, 2015 Randall and 2016 Kenny Clark.

When an NFL team drafts a first rounder, it needs that player to make an impact. The pressure mounts even more when the Packers, who have used the draft as their main personnel stream, miss on their first pick.

After Clinton-Dix looked absolutely confused last year, the only player from that list that I would peg as a consistent impact player would be Clark. Guys have either failed already (Sherrod, Jones and now Randall) or mounting injuries will impact the rest of their career (Perry).

Brian Gutekunst already had a boatful of pressure on him before any of this. Now the heat just got turned up a little. It’s great that he realizes that the Packers cannot get to where they need to be by doing the status quo.

Gutekunst must hit a home run with the first round pick. That could mean that he moves up to grab an edge rusher or sliding back some to add a cornerback and even more picks.

I like the move by the Packers because Kizer is a better quarterback than Hundley and the Packers needed better backup insurance with Aaron Rodgers being 34.

Now it’s on Gutekunst to assemble the rest of the roster. What we don’t know is if King can get through a season without recurring shouldering pain and if not, is he in fact a top cover corner?

Which is why it is probably best for Gutekunst to add a corner via free agency. Whether that’s Richard Sherman or Malcolm Butler would be the best bets. That would then open the door for the Packers to take an edge rusher early in the draft. The Packers had only 166 quarterback hurries this past season. The league average was 181.

Maybe they could accomplish that if Jones was still around or if Perry actually played a little more.

First round picks are supposed to be the cornerstones of a team. They are the elite players that not only net the big money but also get the huge expectations. The Packers haven’t been able to match up the expectations with the results from the last six years.

If the Packers want to win their fifth Super Bowl, that has to change now. 

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GB Jacker's picture

King played through pain this year - give him a chance before writing him off as an injury plagued player! But yes they need to improve on early picks, that said, does it matter if your 1st round pick is Datone Jones when your 4th rounder is an All-pro LT?

Nick Perry's picture

Hell yes it matters, to be frank that drives me Bat S*** Crazy when someone suggests it. No offense GB Jacker but IMO it's just a weak. It's another way Packers fans have justified all the busted picks made by Thompson to make themselves feel okay about the missed draft picks. God forbid they hit on a 1st rounder AND a 4th rounder.

I'm sorry but when a team misses and misses on their 1st round picks year in and year out it sets them back. This is EXACTLY the reason the Packers are so short on impact players and any depth ANYWHERE.

BTW...Drafting at 26, 27, or 28 isn't a damn excuse either. Not when we're using it for ALMOST every damn draft since 2011. To make matters worse look at the 2nd and 3rd round picks since 2011 too.

In 2016 Clark was a nice pick but Spriggs and Frackrell have been HUGE disappointments.
Rollins followed Randall in 2015.
Thornton followed HHCD and Adams in 2014.
Worthy followed Perry in 2012.

Yes Thompson his on several later round picks and drafted an All-Pro LT in the 4th. NO it's doesn't justify all the failed picks.

GB Jacker's picture

All the failed picks? What team doesn't fail on most of their picks. Seriously - the average NFL career is 3.3 years, the average for a 1st rounder is about 9 yes but if you get 10 years from a 5th rounder then what is the difference?

It literally does not matter where you get them. I'm a packers fan, I want all 13 picks this year to be all-pros but I don't care if the 1st rounder is a bust if we hit on some of the others.

Of course it matters where you draft. Just look at the statistics. The chances of landing a Pro bowl player in the 1-15 range compared to the 22-32 range or Round 1 is absolutely significant. And yet in theory, the better teams are drafting later in the round so one would expect them to be better at drafting?

There's many ways to build a team, many ways to win. Simply focusing on RD1 draft picks is blinkered.

Nick Perry's picture

Pro Bowl players? Hell I'd settle for a guy who could cover, tackle, and run!!

I don't care about a first round bust either if it happens every once in a while. But Thompson has put this organization in a huge hole BECAUSE of all the failed 1st and 2nd round or 3rd round picks.

Sorry dude..ONE All Pro 4th round LT doesn't make up for Spriggs, Frackrell, Rollins, Randall, Thornton, Rodgers, Bradford, Jones, Worthy, Sherrod, and Green.

Not even close!

GB Jacker's picture

Out of curiosity, which NFL rosters over the past decade would you rather have had? If it's less than 10 then it's probably unreasonable to be complaining.

Bure9620's picture

NP, I get your point, however the draft has become more and more of a crap shoot in the last 10 years or so and on average only about half the picks end up being real starters and core players which is true of all teams. Even the Patriots, the "model" franchise have missed on several picks, they have just augmented their roster every year with more free agents. The field flppers are few and far between. The reason I am a proponent of TT moving on is draft and develop has become harder with college offenses (and defenses for that matter) changing so much and also the limited amount of time for camps and off-season where the development of young players really happens. The development side of draft and develop now takes longer. Is this roster a failure of TT's selections (The draft side) or the failure of the coaching staff to develop these players? Capers HAD talent on defense but no think that was mostly a coaching failure.

Tundraboy's picture

Your on a roll NP. Keep it coming.

nigrivasilayesrej's picture

Randall was from the 2015 draft - which player(s) is the All Pro from that year?

1) Randall
2) Rollins
3) Montgomery
4) Ryan
5) Hundley
6) Ripkowski
6) Ringo
6) Backman

GB Jacker's picture

None, finding all pros anywhere is fucking hard. There's about 2000 players in the league, so less than 1% are all pros.

My point was not that GB has been drafting amazingly (though over TTs total reign they were excellent) but that it doesn't matter which round you find them

zeke's picture

If you want to take a look at some crap drafting over the past five years, look at Seattle. Lots of people would have been doing cartwheels if Paul Allen had let Schneider out of his contract to replace TT, but look at the draft misses and stupid trades (I love you, Percy Harvin, for infecting two of my least favourite franchises) and you wonder why he's not sitting on the hot seat rather than sitting on a new contract. Until you realise that this isn't math and that the margin for error at this level is razor thin.

Packmaniac's picture

Ouch. That’s an ugly list.

Dzehren's picture

What crap draft this was

flackcatcher's picture

Overall, the 2015 class was a league wide disaster. GM and front office just for what ever reason miss on these players, or overrated them. It's a guessing game, crap shoot etc. For all the whining about TT, he got it right more often than not. And in this league, THAT is insane.

Chuck Farley's picture

Amen brother. Coud not agree more but here's another pisser: how many guys did Ted let go to save a buck who developed after they left. I can think of at least 5 or 6 guys doing very well right now on other teams but they didnt do much for us because they were oft injured.

Bedrock's picture

But how many were let go that did not go on to success? The dividing line between success and failure in this league is thin. So a success rate of 51% in personnel decisions (or whatever percentage you wish to use) is one reason for Green Bay’s string of success.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Great list of names as always CF ~~~~~~~~~~ keep up the talk without backing up a thing you say.

John Kirk's picture

We share the same pet peeve. I can't count how many times I read the logic (or lack of) that drives you BS crazy from our base over the years all to justify Ted.

I like putting the focus on the why? Why did his 1st rounders fail? This gets into draft philosophy. It was NEED based drafting. Nobody is ever going to convince me that the guys we took in Round 1 were the BPA's. The last 6 first selections in the draft were all on defense. Why? Our defense was terrible and Ted was trying to fill needs. Datone is the poster child for this need based reach drafting we were doing. Sending our little team down to Texas to study the read option and then determining we needed Datone Jones as the player who could blow it up. That need caused us to reach on a player who had no business being drafted by us in Round 1 or any other team for that matter. Aaron Rodgers was a BPA scenario. Not all BPA's are going to work out and not all need drafting is going to fail but over the long run need drafting will kill you. See: Green Bay Packers

I'm just happy I never ever have to hear..."that's just kinda the way it worked out" as if we had no control or say in the matter when it was clear we were need drafting.

GB Jacker's picture

Purely out of interest - which teams over the course of TTs reign did you think drafter better than GB?

John Kirk's picture

First, your moniker is very interesting. Would love to know what you're trying to communicate there. :)

You want me to give you a comprehensive analysis of Ted's drafts over 13 years vs. the other 31 teams? That's an arduous subjective process. I'd have to spend a lot of time before answering that with any kind of informed answer.

Are you assuming, based on regular season record, that we must've drafted well? What is your basis for asking the question? Obviously, you're a Ted defender and feel justified in that position. Why?

If I get the time later today or tonight, I may spend some time at to see if i can give you a reasonably informed opinion, but I'd like your answer which should be much easier to come by.

GB Jacker's picture

my name is Jack - that's the sum of it.

My issue with the insane TT bashing is that statistically he did a fine job and that played out with wins, 3 NFC champ games and a SB, He kept us competitive with a stud QB on a rookie deal (a la Seattle, Philly from recent years) but he maintained that when Rodgers became a franchise QB on a huge deal (which is much harder). My point is look around the league and see who else has managed to maintain that level. I find it strange that people can hate on a man so much, without knowing if there is a better alternative out there - and how plausible it is to bring that alternative to GB.

GB is not entitled to win. Their run of 8 straight playoff appearances (second only to BB & the Pats) can literally be boiled down to front office decisions, whether that be coaching hires, player acquisition, team philosophy/culture. Sprinkle in a significant amount of luck of course - it's sport.

Yes TT lost his magic in recent years, but overall how can you complain as a fan when you won as much as pretty much every other team in the NFL besides the Pats - and frankly I'd rather our one great SB run & win over the dubious and unpleasantness of the Pats dynasty.

So what I am saying is that whilst I understand the desire to win more - remember that is literally what every fan of every team wants, so it's good to temper that desire with some reality and be grateful that GB was relevant for a decade under TT. My guess is that at least 20 NFL teams would bite your hand off to experience the football that has come out of GB over the past 10 years.

I'm glad we changed it up and if Gute can keep us in the mix every year then I'll continue feeling blessed to support this wonderful little franchise over the 31 others in this league.

John Kirk's picture

Hey Jack...Ok, I get it. Glad it didn't mean what I thought it meant.

Ted is to be applauded for a few things... Drafting Aaron Rodgers, moving on from Brett, and adding Woodson and finding Tramon and Sam Shields. Having your starting CB pairing be UDFA's is quite a feat. I won't get into why he needed it to be that way. That's it.

We have seen what this team is when Aaron isn't there. It's not good. Ted did not build a roster here that was SB worthy. He built a roster that could get into the playoffs with the GOAT leading it. That is not impressive. The 8 year streak is not impressive because when you have the GOAT at QB in the division we were in, you should be making the playoffs. You should be winning SB's.

Ted Thompson the man was flat out weird. I couldn't work for a guy like him. I just couldn't. He's uninspiring and didn't do everything he could've to make his business successful. There is no shame in coming up short IF you've given your all. Ted NEVER gave his all...ever. He had some sick obsession with good enough being good enough. We don't need FA, we don't need trades, we just need to trust me to draft and develop. I'm the smartest guy in the room and I can pass this whole philosophy off because I have the QB to hide behind so people will actually buy it. I think you were one of the ones suckered. I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think you didn't see things for how they actually were because we were making the playoffs annually assuming Ted must be a fantastic GM. Had Ted decided to use EVERY avenue we would've been better. That's not a debate. It's a fact. I still would've seen him as weird but would've respected him for being sold out to win which he never was at any point he was here. I am so happy he's gone it's not even funny.

I owe you an answer on the draft but I haven't had the time to go and focus on that arduous task but again it's a subjective exercise.

Christopher Gennaro's picture

Well said NP, wish I could give more then one thumbs up for your comment it's like you read my mind. Tip of the hat

marpag1's picture

Here is a complete list of every Ron Wolf first round draft pick who was chosen for a Pro Bowl.

Bubba Franks (3 times).

Did I miss anyone?

Bearmeat's picture

I think some guy named Fav-ray counts too, seeing as Wolf paid a 1st rd pick to Glanville for him. ;)

4thand1's picture

And TT has AR

Bearmeat's picture

Yep. And CM3 and Raji. And hell, Woodson was a genius move. Collins. Tramone. Sam Shields... I mean the list goes on. Ted from 05-10 was fantastic. Ted post 2010.... and especially post 2014. NOT GOOD.

GB Jacker's picture

Agree. That's why a change was needed. But TT should be revered for his work in its totality

Bearmeat's picture

Stop coming at me with your reason when I want to be pissed at Ted because the quality of our roster after QB1 isn't good! ;)

You're right though. In 10 years, I'll agree with you happily because we won't be suffering the consequences of Ted's mismanagement then.

GB Jacker's picture

Maybe Gute will be so fucking amazing we'll be pissed that we didn't have him for 20 years.

I agree TT had to move on, but it's a very very fine line in this league. When I look around there's only a small handful of organisations that I look at with any sense of envy.

Bearmeat's picture

Sigh... there you go again. Making me think reasonably when all I want to do is rage. :P

Spock's picture

Exactly what I was thinking. Ron Wolf's first round picks were notoriously less than stellar but his later rounds were often gold. TT about the same.

John Kirk's picture

Ron used FA to cover his misses like a team that wants to win should. He was aggressive, colorful and confidence inspiring. Everything Ted wasn't.

Spock's picture

Not arguing about what you're saying with a small (but significant) caveat: FA rules are far more restrictive than in Ron's time; He admitted that he left being a GM in part because of that. You're talking apples and pears.

John Kirk's picture

Yup. Mindset is everything though and that's what I'm speaking to. We fall to Denver in a devastating defeat in our quest for back to back and Ron says... "We're a fart in the wind..a one year wonder." What kind of mindset is that? One that reflects winning SB's is all that matters, not...Gee, we made it to the SB back to back? I think that's pretty good. Quite frankly, can't win them all. Can't you just hear Ted in your head?

Ted was the definition of the quote... Good is the enemy of great. and Better hates best. Good wasn't good enough for Ron, he lamented not doing more for Brett as to weapons. Ted was a flatline guy...just try to keep everything exactly the same year after year be just good enough that with some NFL attrition and luck you might sneak one. Ron would go get it. The era may have changed things some but his mindset wouldn't have changed.

Ted's shoot low mentality not only drove me nuts but it affected our fanbase. You still see so many traces of the years of Stockholm Syndrome at the hands of that captor.

fastmoving's picture

But Wolf and TT have the same number of SBs???? And TT has much better stats everyway you look at it.

But some guys here act like Wolf was a hero and TT just bad. Just crazy. because Wolfs time is so long ago, people remember only the good. everyhing was perfect back in that days????
nothing can be further from the truth...............

John Kirk's picture

Are you for real? Do you realize the context of what Ron inherited? This team was thought of as Siberia and was an NFL joke for decades until Ron came to town. He turned a big time loser into a big time winner. He was here for 10 years and got to the show in back to back seasons in an era that was just cited as being different than Ted's where the playing field is leveled. Ron built a juggernaut that fell to the likes of the cash rich Dallas teams way too many times. The cap era started in '94.

What Ron accomplished and built vs. what Ted built? Ron's influence and tree speaks for itself. He will always be the guy who took a longtime loser and made us winners. Ted will always be a guy who did less with more.

fastmoving's picture

Actually Favre turned it around. He hit on Favre, White and Holmgreen. But it was a little bit easier for him because the only way for the Pack was to go up. Latter he lost his touch a little bit too.....
TT hit on AR, CM3 and Woodson. Handled the QB switch not bad and brought the Trophy home.

So like I said not much difference between them, even when you give Wolf some extra points for bringing the Pack back.

So even if you wright 2 inches posts, you can not twist the things around

John Kirk's picture

Okay. Favre turned it around? If you want to take the credit from Ron for going out and trading a first rounder for a guy who was a total clown at the time what do you say about Ted who drafted a QB who fell into his lap?

Is it Rodgers who built Ted's success as Favre built Ron's? If so, let's go to what each GM did to get their QB's who justified their success. Ron wins in a landslide and it's not close. Could you imagine Ted parting with a precious 1st rounder when he obsessed about comp picks? Ted would've never touched a guy like Brett Favre in the draft, trade or FA. Ron gave up his 1st. Balls. Aggression. Ted=fell into his lap. No trade up...just sat there while Aaron could've been taken by another team. His game of chicken worked that time. Very, very fortunate vs. Ron's big gamble. It's conceivable that Ron would've lost his job had Favre bombed in Green Bay like he did in Atlanta.

fastmoving's picture

oh man, you have no idea what you talking about, no matter how long you are talking and thats in your case very long.
TT shows balls to take AR....the 23 GMs before did not. Wolf shows balls as well and got lucky with Favre....and luck is always a big part if not the biggest. He gambled and he won, no way someone could know how this turns out.
he had a couple of GM jobs and did not set the world on fire somewhere else. Pretty bad for a guy who knows the future..

there are always a million ways to look at things but to think your view is for sure the right one is just funny.

so like I said, probablly not much difference between the two and in my book TT was a little bit better. you can argue Wolf was a little bit better, but to say by much is just insane.........

and smart guys like you measure everything on it is absolutly clear there is a tie between Wolf and TT.

you try to idealize some guy by throwing others under the bus. nothing to be proud of man. but I got it...... you need someone to look up to. good old times where everything was so good.
Even some will make the point, that Wolf waste Favres prime years with a not good enought roster...but that would be just as senseless as to say the same thing about TT

John Kirk's picture

I have no idea what I'm talking about and you do? Wow. There's some objectivity.

Responses like yours are always interesting. Did you address a single point I made in my post? That would be a ...Nooooooo. Yet, I don't know what I'm talking about?

You realize Ron Wolf loved Favre in the previous draft that he didn't get him? That was his guy. He believed in him despite his incredibly rocky start on and off the field in Atlanta. Brett threw 4 passes his rookie season completing ZERO with 2 INTs. That is some mad belief to trade a 1st rounder for someone like that, but he had conviction and vision. I will never forget picking up the newspaper and thinking...who on earth is this Brett Favor guy? Conversely, Aaron Rodgers was my favorite all time college football QB. I would watch him at Cal and think it was too bad we'd never draft high enough to get a star like him. So, that part of it colors my perception. Rodgers was a total no brainer pick. The other teams in front of us were FOOLS. Ted gambled by sitting there. I'm sure to him taking any of about 10 different guys would've been okay to him. Ron had laser vision for Brett via trade.

Ron had us in back to back shows. Did Ted? Ted had the better QB. You underestimate just how great Aaron Rodgers is by crediting Ted with keeping us competitive. It has been shown just how pathetic our roster is and has been minus Aaron Rodgers. Ted did less with more. He had the biggest gift any GM ever received outside of Brady and couldn't build a team to get to more than one SB in all the years he was here?

Plus, you ignored the idea of building a team from total suckage into a powerhouse and media darling. Ted didn't do that. Ron did. Ron was a very different guy than Ted but again no comment from you on how they differed as people. I preferred Ron's demeanor and personality. He was an aggressive smart colorful guy. All the things Ted wasn't. Ted was an embarrassment every single time he was in front of the cameras. He had no personality, a bizarre fixation with doing one thing and one thing only and justifying it.

I've looked for a long time to find the interview online but haven't been able but he said when he got here his goal was to keep the team competitive and hope they might get a SB or two. His goal was never to be a SB champ, it was to be in the playoffs keeping revenue flowing in. Everything he did was never about the show. Ron wanted to win SBs and made the bold moves to get us one. We had a 3 year run that was incredible and if not for the money rich Cowboys being the Patriots of Ron's day, we would've won a lot more.

Go back and answer my points before you decide to tell me how I don't know what i'm talking about. It makes you look bad.

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

Ron wolf also used free agency as well as anyone ever has. Reggie white, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Gilbert brown, Andre rison, desmond Howard, Keith Jackson, the list goes on and on. No waiting to fill the holes in next year's draft. That takes the sting out of a John Michaels pick or another 1st or 2nd round bust. Do you think Ron would have drafted 5 db's out of 8 1st or 2nd rounders and still have the position be horrible?

dobber's picture

Ron Wolf ran the team for 8-9 years...not 14. His teams had good starters but the depth was lagging by the time he passed the torch. He did an amazing job building a roster that should have won more than one title in the 90s, but if he'd hung around for 14 or 15 years, who's to say people wouldn't have been begging for him to find something else to do?

John Kirk's picture

Yes, yes, yes, yes! This is exactly right. It shows the differing mindsets. The totally out of touch Ted Thompson, and the finger on the pulse Ron Wolf. It's too bad Ron didn't have Aaron Rodgers. I would bet everything I own, we'd have won multiple SB's had Ron had the gift of 12. Ted was a squanderer while reciting his Tedisms.

He was known to be distant cold and aloof. Just a weird guy who was impossible to relate to or be inspired by. Ask Cullen Jenkins.

Bearmeat's picture

The move does two positive things - it saves Green Bay salary cap space with a 2nd year QB rather than a 4th, and gives them a marginally better draft outlook on day 3 - which could give them ammo to move up if they want on day 1 or 2.

It also blows a titanic sized hole in their roster. It says VERY poor things about Ted and Dom, that's for sure. This absolutely wreaks of Micah Hyde and Casey Hayward. Randall is a butthead - but he has talent.

The Great Green Bay Packers now have a physically gifted 2nd year player with shoulder problems at CB. And then...... a bag of balls. Oh, and the Great Green Bay Packers still have an old and often hurt former OLB1. And then an always hurt and overpaid 2nd tier OLB. And then? A whole lot of nothing.

Those are two MASSIVE holes on the roster. Our defense cannot be successful if BOTH are not fixed before day one. We had better hope that Mo signs AND that we can find a free agent CB2 AND that we can find a productive edge rusher and cover guy on days 1-2 of the draft.

Oh, and let's not forget the need for a veteran speed WR/TE, nor a replacement RT for Bulaga insurance.


GB Jacker's picture

How dare you call Lenzy a bag o' balls!

Casey Hayward has become a very very good player and I personally wanted him to stay. But I don't get all the talk about Hyde, he's an okay player, no more than that.

Bearmeat's picture

Hyde has been pretty damn good at free safety for Buffalo. Gee, I wonder if we could have used a pretty good free safety in 2013? You know, when Hyde was a rookie....

And Lenzy is a project. For every Sam Shields, there are 100 Jerrone McMillan's out there.

GB Jacker's picture

So you would have paid Hyde around 6 million a year to play Free Safety and moved on from HHCD or MB?

Bearmeat's picture

From Morgan? Yes. He's 29 and the injuries have piled up. Plus, the best thing you can say about him is that he is assignment sure and a smart player.

Hyde has speed limitations for a CB. Not for a FS. And he absolutely is a ball hawk. He was played out of position for FOUR years with us and that absolutely says terrible things about our FO and coaching staff.

Plus, if they had wanted to resign Hyde for less than 6 million AAV - they could have done so in the 2016 season for about half of that.

GB Jacker's picture

That's true. I can see your point here but we'll likely move on from Burnett this year anyway. I just think there's better solutions than Hyde.

I agree about the deal - I don't understand the concept of letting players prove/earn big deals. Give yourself time to evaluate their ability/character/health and then extend them before their stock rises. This is a problem throughout the NFL though.

Dzehren's picture

Hyde was an all pro last year- he’s in the 1% category you referred to earlier

Big Moe's picture

Yep the guy is a ballhawk, and you just don't teach that. (thank God! Dom is gone!)

jh9's picture

You forgot we need a TE, too.

sonomaca's picture

I think you’re on to something here. The higher pick might give them enough draft capital to move up enough spots to get James or Fitzpatrick. Also, the probably have a handshake deal in place for a FA corner.

Tundraboy's picture

And a real TE.

Savage57's picture

I like the move. A bunch of problems solved.

-Got rid of a guy who obviously pissed off a lot of people.
-Brought in an upgrade to work into the back-up QB role.
-Jumped to the top of two gut rounds in the draft, which gives the Packers more flexibility.
-And, they freed up a little bit of coin.

If it made sense that the Packers passed on Watt for an extra pick last year, then, by moving up 28 spots in two rounds, they essentially moved up one round in the draft, access to talent-wise.

Was there anything you saw from Damarious Randall that really makes you mourn the Packers shedding him and getting some decent value from the deal? I suspect there's some street FA, late round, or UDFA talent that can do everything Randall did and more.

Bearmeat's picture

"Was there anything that makes you mourn losing Randall?"

Absolutely. He plays CB at above a league average (but not All-Pro) level. We don't have many of those. We SUCK at covering the pass right now. That's a pretty good reason to mourn - regardless of how big a butthead Randall is, or whether Ted and Dom were too stupid to put him in the right position to succeed.

If this trade were, say, Cobb, for Kizer and some picks, I'd be doing cartwheels right now. We have ability at WR (admittedly it's old) other than Cobb. And we need salary cap space. Randall wasn't the problem there yet.

Packmaniac's picture

Spot-on, Bearmeat. I have a feeling Randall will be an above average CB in Cleveland (and his 10 INTs in three years was well above average) and now we have a health question mark guy in King backed by 2 health and talent question mark guys in Rollins and Goodson, with a remaining depth chart of 3 UDFAs - Hawkins, Pipkins and Brown. Hmmmmm...I thought they needed to sign TWO veteran CBs in free agency BEFORE this trade (don’t have to be world-beaters, just better and more experienced than the young UDFA crowd). California Sherman will sign this weekend with ascending San Francisco...Even with Rodgers, GB isn’t viewed as an appealing free agent destination, so they’d better get it together drafting because they’ll never be a consistent winner in free agency.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I actually think Randalls explosion is as a much an indictment of Dom Capers defense, Darren Perry's total lack of accountability in his safety group and Mike McMarthy's past refusal to clear the defense of bad coaches that it is of Randall's immaturity. After Randall let off his steam, he was the 2nd best player on defense after Kenny Clark.

Bearmeat's picture

And how much of that is truly fixed this year? Dom. Perry. But MM? nope.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Mike McCarthy coaches the way Rob Deer played baseball. He stands there doing nothing pitch after pitch, and then all of a sudden takes this huge swing that might be a strikeout or might be a homerun and nothing in between.

zeke's picture

"Let off his steam" is an interesting way of putting it.

He showed promise his rookie year, was mostly hot garbage his second year, and played well for about four games last season. It's good that I'm not a GM, because I don't see him as more than a JAG.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Then you should go back and rewatch.

HankScorpio's picture

You have a much higher opinion of Damarious Randall than I do. And I thought I was one of Randall's bigger fans. I guess I was wrong about that.

Savage57's picture

When you're own teammates want you gone, it's a pretty damning indictment. I don't know where you get 'plays above a league average' from. He's been sucking hind tit in CB rankings ever since he came into the league.

Randall was a place holder, a swing and a miss 1st round pick who was too interested in pointing the finger at others instead of looking in the mirror.

He'll be out of the league in a couple of years.

Big Moe's picture

Nailed it!

Bearmeat's picture

I disagree savage. IF Randall can grow up, he has the instincts and physical traits to be a very good player.

No, I'm not a huge current Randall fan. I wouldn't have drafted him. But I don't think it's a good idea to drop him for a bag of rocks at backup QB either when the rest of our CBs are... um... not good.

williewood's picture

So when Randle goes up against Pittsburg twice a year and those wide receivers bun him, is everyone still going to defend him? We had King cover Julio jones after Randle tried and failed. I understand your reasoning but he is just another body in my opinion

One thing I say may happen is if he grows up and matures, but the NFL is full of those types of ifs

I look at our roster with Gute right now like making homemade soup, the pot is empty except for some initial ingredients browning on the bottom, does it taste like Chicken soup? no, but it isn't finished yet and chef isn't going to tell you how , what and when he is doing it, and to be honest he doesn't have to.

he's been on the job for a couple of months, let him get thru a season, to see how he does before we run him out of town

4thand1's picture

To make it deep into the playoffs your draft and develop theory better produce with any teams 1st and 2nd -picks. The Packers had way to many high round misses during TT's time as GM. He was dam lucky to hit on AR or he would have been run out of town on a rail, MM too. No one could have know he was going to be this good to carry a franchise. Sure its a team sport, but they failed to put enough good players around their franchise player. IT IS TIME GUTE. GOPACKGO.

Cubbygold's picture

Thinking about the approach to the draft, how many players does GB need to bring in?

I'm guessing that GB signs two FAs they plan to start (CB, Edge) which will leave how many holes on the team? I don't think the answer is 12. Bringing too many guys to camp, and having such a short meaningless window to try and evaluate them is a waste. Look at the discussions last year about the 39 options at WR, or the battle between 3rd and 4th string QBs. What good did that do? We cut callahan and he was picked up by NO. Didn't we cut yancey and dupre? You're telling me we had years of college tape on them...saw potential...and then two months later they're worthless? No, we just don't have the room, and therefore we wasted draft capital.

So Im hoping gute trades up alot in the draft to avoid this wasteful activity.

It doesn't have to mean trying to move up in the first, since that could be expensive. I'm even open to trading back in the first... but in the end it seems like GB has the ability to end up with 6-8 picks in the first three rounds. I'm more in favor of bringing in lower quantity, higher quality guys in areas of need.

sonomaca's picture

I think that’s the plan. They need a couple of real difference makers: corner, speedy linebacker, TE, edge, receiver.

If they can get two of these in FA, and three in the draft (by moving up), they’ll be contenders.

stockholder's picture

Randall was a late 2nd round pick. People screamed when they took him rd. 1. And know I see people screaming he's gone. This was a good move by Gute! Randall was NO CB. He wouldn't have worked at Safety either. Randall was a TT /GM move, that dumped salary and age off the roster. He was a short term Fix! They weren't going to pick up the option either. Too many fans wanted another CB. The web sites were filled with articles on getting another CB. Gute should be praised for this move. Their draft board just got better. By two Players.

rdent's picture

I wasn't thrilled with the Randall pick in the first round. I read an article that was saying the other players wanted Randall gone after his benching for throwing a tantrum.

Royalty Free GM's picture

Our secondary was bad with Randall.
Our secondary is bad without Randall.

Maybe it’s time for Trumaine Johnson.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

No ! We have no pass rush and we had the worst DC in the league. Now we were going to BLOW money away for another CB that could have been used for Safety,LB or WR.

Packmaniac's picture

The insane hype surrounding the draft mesmerizes quite a few fans and pundits into having unrealistic expectations for the potential impact of a rookie class. A rookie is very unlikely to be better in 2018 than Randall will be (with Cleveland as of now). I’m not praising Randall so much as pointing out the unrealistic expectations we tend to have for guys in their rookie year (and after an injury-plagued 2017, King is virtually a rookie all over again). As I wrote above, I thought we needed to sign 2 vet CBs in FA even before this trade. Ted’s cornerback cupboard is far too desolate to be undersold in favor of the draft. Multiple vet influx needed, IMO.

Packmaniac's picture

P.S I’ve rareky commented on this site in my 2+ years following it, but I like the content and the comments a great deal. Good group of writers and site regulars. Thumbs up

Cubbygold's picture

Yup, people don't seem to understand that the majority of draft players won't have successful careers in the NFL.

32 teams x 22 starters = 704 starters in the league

What's a successful career? Everyone will have their own opinion, but I'm going to say 7 productive years just to make the math easy.

700 NFL starters, with 1/7 turnover a year = 100 new players needed, league wide, each year

100 starters needed a year and theres around 250 players drafted each year. Obviously this is all just rough estimates, but that would suggest 60% of draftees won't work out.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

My calculator is re-charging, but that sounds about right. And it fits the old adage that getting 3 starters out of a draft is a good draft. 3 x 32 = 96. Of course, it is better if the 3 starters are actually fairly good starters at least, and not starting by default.

Colin_C's picture

Very good point. Guys like Marcus Lattimore are certainly the exception to the rule.

Tundraboy's picture

If this is the only move before the draft, there's going to be a lot of angst here over the next few weeks.

Turophile's picture

True about Kevin King, Packmaniac. The same applies to Beigel and M.Adams picks. They could all make a real jump in 2018.

Also I didn't like the comment "Gutekunst must hit a home run with the first round pick. That could mean that he moves up to grab an edge rusher or sliding back some to add a cornerback and even more picks" .

Every year, every single darn year, I hear that THIS year it is a crucial year, that the GM MUST do this, or that. Bottom line is that neither Wolf or TT had particularly successful first round picks, but they made up for it elsewhere. So what Gute needs to do is have a good strike rate OVERALL, not just focus on this years round one pick.

williewood's picture

best comment I read all weekend

williewood's picture

best comment I read all weekend

Bure9620's picture

3 positives with this move

1) A raw and VERY young QB ( the kid just turned 22!) with a big arm and legs with 3 years to work with where he can sit, learn the offense, work on technique, watch and learn from the best. This kid did not have a prayer at success last year. I really think this kid could surprise some people.

2) We will likely still draft a QB late, but the pressure to do so is greatly lessened and we can potentially find another diamond in the rough late at another position. Kizer is also REALLY cheap, a Vet would have cost $2-3 million.

3) Demarious had attitude issues and they had the the potential to become worse this year where he could really become a cancer for the LR. Randall is NOT irreplaceable.

stockholder's picture

I love the idea were getting away from Davenport @14. What does Kiper know. He said Randall was a great TT pick too. People the draft board just changed for the better. The roster just changed for the better. Kizer is a better look than Hundley. There are some very speedy guys in this draft. Don't look Back. Look forward! I wouldn't stop trading! My feeling is there is a guard that wants to play in GB. Trade Spriggs!!

sonomaca's picture

They passed on Taleb and dumped Randall. Pattern: no troublemakers in GB.

If James or Fitzpatrick is still on board at 10, they might attempt to trade up. That would be signature move for Gute.

Chuck Farley's picture

What about Frank Zombo having a great career with KC, Wells are all pro and Jenkins had some gas left in his tank too when tight ass Ted let them go and replaced them with who?
Draft and development is nothing more than the 'Money Ball' Oakland did in baseball, try to get a cheap a player as you can to save a buck. Once they develop and cost money dump them and move on.
Ted could go into the HOF as the biggest money saver of all.

sonomaca's picture

TT was enamoured with players from California, and to a lesser degree Utah and Arizona. The strategy worked brilliantly early on with Rodgers and Matthews, but was a mixed bag after that.

zeke's picture

If that’s the case then why do they have to worry about creating cap room to go after FAs, extend Rodgers, etc.? Where is all the “saved money”?

marpag1's picture

Wait, what? Frank Zombo having a great career with KC?

In five year with KC, Zombo has averaged 27 tackles per year, 1.5 sacks, 0.8 passes defensed, 0.2 INTs and 0.6 forced fumbles.

Great career??

zeke's picture

It's not the number of tackles, it's the quality of them. Probably.

Michael Hughes's picture

Randall looked a damn good player last year I am not buying its a bust. Looks a shocker of a trade.

If Rodgers goes down, Kizer will make very little difference. We have traded our best defensive back for pretty much nothing.

We dont have the salary cap space to sign a replacement so what now ? Cut nelson to try and sign a replacement for randall ?

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Packer fans are now trying to justify the trade. Of course, fans keep drinking the kool aid . This team is sinking while your playing violin music to keep everyone distracted.

Big Moe's picture

1st Glad he is gone, if your teammates feel so strongly that they went to the staff about him, then good riddance. Lets give our new D coordinator the tools he wants, not a locker room problem, and moving up to the start of the 4/5 rounds is great, with all of our picks a trade up is not impossible, so maybe we could get into the top ten, who knows, but I believe you'll see 3 corners drafted this season, much like RB last year, lets hope they pan out as well. But to me the truly most important thing is, I will never see #7 in the Green and Gold, at times he reminded me of Seneca Wallace, ( uggg ) good bye B.H.

Thank you Santa!
Go Pack!

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Then the Packers should have NEVER drafted him

Denver's picture

Looks like I'm in the minority, but I have zero problem with this more Randall (and probably Hundley). Those two more than any other Packers almost cost me a good TV on too many occasions last year. And scared the crap out of the dog.
Make the most out of those 2 better draft picks and things only get better....

dobber's picture

I tend to agree, but for different reasons. If Randall was a divisive piece in the locker room and not likely to be a fit in Pettine's defense, getting a young QB to work with in return is not a bad move.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

The trade was absolutely stupid by the Green Bay Packers. More incompetence.

lou's picture

Great piece of humor "Denver" to indicate your game time feelings. Per Rob Demovsky of ESPN after the sideline episode McCarthy's "Veterans Committee" of players he leans on wanted him released but based on who/how many CB's were left they could not release him. That says enough right there to move him. Time will tell if the trade was positive, negative, or a wash. Don't forget that in the 4th and 5th rounds as part of the deal we move up to the top of those rounds which could be a real benefit.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Well I hope so, because we obviously don't do a very good job with 1st rd picks.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Watch Demaryius Randall make the pro bowl. Say it won't be so.

dobber's picture

It won't be so.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

What about Micah Hyde?
Oops..He already did.

Spock's picture

After seeing additional information on Randall, I understand this trade more. The most telling thing was the last half of McCarthy's comment on "Randall needs to clean his own house" the rest of the comment went something like "and then he didn't play the last two games". Sounds like Randall was a WAY bigger locker room cancer than I'd thought. The fact that the veterans wanted him gone and he decided not to play the last two games from his "injury" while House made it a point to be a "lead by example" type veteran and play the last meaningless game while injured speaks volumes. I suspect that the meeting with House's agent at the combine means it likely that the Pack will bring him back at the veteran minimum. I'd thought Randall had learned his lesson; now I think not!!!

Lare's picture

I agree. It sounds like the Packers had already made the decision to trade Randall, the only question was to who and what they could get for him in return.

This removes one hole to fill this offseason (backup QB) and adds another one (starting CB). Gotta think they have a plan in place to build a contending team and improved defense.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Maybe he was sick and tired of Dom Capers as DC.
Funny how McCarthy sticks forever with Capers and Hundley but cuts Randall

Hawg Hanner's picture

That blow-up Randall had obviously had him going out the door, ruining his stature on the team. I'd rather have traded for a position player or a pick but.....
In any case Randall was a disappointment as a first round pick and was another Thompson bad result.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

No he was not

Doug Niemczynski's picture

2 years ago we were fed up with Davante Adams and then has a great year last year and now we sign him to a huge deal.

Sorry, but I think we gave up too early on Damarious Randall. I hope I am wrong.

Rossonero's picture

"I like the move by the Packers because Kizer is a better quarterback than Hundley and the Packers needed better backup insurance with Aaron Rodgers being 34."

Cory, according to what data? Kizer led the league with 22 interceptions. He was consistently the worst in PFF in just about every major metric too. He also got benched. How the heck is he better than Hundley?

kevgk's picture

hundley had 3 years behind rodgers to learn the offense
Kizer had Huge Jackass for a coach in his rookie year

Rossonero's picture

Hundley was surrounded by weapons. So, no.

stockholder's picture

The more I see Kizer. The more I like. I remember Scott Hunter after Starr. I remember terry Hanratty , earl Morral. The packers needed a guy that can make throws. When he gets behind a good line and better coaching. I think it won't matter what Randall does!

Royalty Free GM's picture

Because Cleveland will ruin every qb if they stay there for long enough. It might not be too late to drain Browns out of his system ;)

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Cleveland has 90 million in free cap space.
By next week they will have a QB and then we will talk again.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Without meaning to, Cory has made a point I've been making all along: Ted has left a depleted roster that is nowhere close to contending for a Super Bowl this year.

So wasting ANY cap space on players who don't factor into 2019 plans is INSANE. Every dollar wasted on Cobb, Nelson, and Matthews this year makes us a dollar worse in 2019 and beyond. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF WE HAVE GOOD REPLACEMENTS FOR THEM IN 2018.

Cut all 3 immediately, and don't even think of re-signing Burnett. We have a slow, weak, unathletic roster to overhaul, and this will happen FAR MORE QUICKLY if we shed declining vets with high price tags NOW.

No salary cuts--just CUT THEM ALTOGETHER. It's time to make adult decisions, not idiotic "let's just reload" decisions that blow the future cap.

Cap is King, and we have a terrible cap situation needing full surgery--not idiotic bandaids.

Lare's picture

I agree. It's looking like Murphy should have gotten rid of Ted two years ago. There's way too may holes on this roster to expect Gutekunst to make a drastic improvement in one year, especially with limited financial resources.

In reality, the Packers need a backup QB, RG, RT, 2 speedy WRs, 3 LB's, a DL, a FS and 3 CBs. Oh and don't forget a long snapper.

Better to cut bait now, fix what he can and plan to right the ship next year while giving some younger guys experience in the offensive & defensive schemes.

fastmoving's picture

that crybaby complaining stuff does not make anymore sense if you post it 5 times a day 24/7.

but maybe we could lend AR to the Browns till our roster is ready (2020?), so we dont have to waste his years.
pretty sure it sounds like a good idea to you. Man, I wish you would be our GM

adult decisions all over the place

John Kirk's picture

Anyone know if there's a way for someone to be able to see all the posts by a certain user? I'd love to read all the posts from certain posters here, but when I click on their name I just see stats and have no ability to see what they've been posting. I connect through FB and don't have an account. Would it be different if I did?

I'd like to read all of ALP's stuff, Nick Perry, Colin_C, Spock, Oppy, Cubbygold, TheGreatReynoldo and some others.

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