Criticism of Packers Front Office Makes No Sense

The Packers have had 31 years of Hall of Fame quarterback play and "only" two Super Bowls. Only? Criticizing the front office for this makes no sense.

We've entered another Packers offseason without a Super Bowl.

That means it's time to start complaining about wasting primes and lamenting all these years of Hall of Fame quarterback play with "only" two Super Bowls.

Do you know how many teams have more than 2 Super Bowls in the last 31 years?

Two.

Do you know how many teams have had Hall of Fame quarterback play for the last 31 years?

One.

Just the Packers.

Packer fans have have been able to wake up every Sunday for the last three decades knowing that they have a quarterback that gives them a pretty good chance to win.

What a gift!

And there's only two teams that won more Super Bowls than them.

As far as I'm concerned, that makes the Packers front office pretty darn successful in my book.

But other people have a different book, apparently. They say things like "They didn't surround him with enough talent."

Nonsense.

The Packers have had plenty of All Pros and Pro Bowlers over the last 31 years. They've had teams plenty good enough to win. In 2020, they were the team to beat until David Bakhtiari got hurt.

Then, the front office didn't just cry in their cereal and sit on their hands - they went out and got Jared Veldheer, who already proven to be a capable fill-in for Bakhtiari.

And then he got Covid.

The Packers front office did everything they could to build a championship team - you can't blame them for that.

You can't blame the front office for 2014, either. Go back and look at how they lost that game and tell me it was a failure of the front office.

They have put together plenty of teams good enough to win it all. Football is random and winning a title depends on tons of things beyond the reasonable control of the front office.

The refs don't think Fuqua touched the ball, so we have a different Super Bowl champion. A fumble was called a tuck, so we have a different Super Champion. Dee Ford's knuckle pushed a little too deep into the turf before the snap, so we have a different Super Bowl champion.

The difference between winning losing in incalculably minute in the NFL. A front office can only do so much.

And the Packers front office did more than most to keep the team competitive year in and year out.

Then the argument comes that the Packers "were carried by the quarterback."

Ok, let's say those teams (the teams that won a couple titles and were good enough to win at least a couple more) were actually just carried by their Hall of Fame quarterbacks.

If we labor under that delusion, I've got a crazy fact for you.

Are you sitting down?

Those Hall of Fame quarterbacks... they were only on the team... because the front office got them!

Shocking right?

So what exactly is the complaint about the Packers front office?

That they got more than three consecutive decades of Hall of Fame level play at the most important position and won two Super Bowls?

That's something no other franchise has accomplished.

Ever.

Then the nonsense reply is that if they had so much great quarterback play, they "should" have won more.

Should?

Should has no place in football!

How many Super Bowls should Fran Tarkenton won? Dan Marino? Warren Moon? Heck, look at Jim Kelly. Are you gonna tell me that the Bills front office that built a team good enough to go to four straight Super Bowls should be blamed for never winning one?

The Packers front office has done a fantastic job. Their results are among the best in the league, sustained over decades instead of the feast-or-famine cycles almost every other franchise has suffered through over the same timeframe.

Could they have done better?

Sure.

And Elon Musk could have more money, but does it matter?

Instead of pointing out all the things that aren't perfect, and blaming the front office who put together an unprecedented run of success, can't we just enjoy what has been an amazing three decades of highly competitive and entertaining football?

That's what I'm going to try to do.

 

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__________________________

Bruce Irons has played, coached, and studied football for decades. Best-selling author of books such as A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Draft, A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Salary Cap, and A Fan's Guide To NFL Free Agency Hits And Misses, Bruce contributes to CheeseHeadTV and PackersForTheWin.com.

Follow Bruce Irons on Twitter at @BruceIronsNFL.

__________________________

NFL Categories: 
23 points
 

Comments (184)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
HawkPacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:29 am

So I guess Bruce, we only have two super bowl wins with two hall of famers at the most important position in football because we have bad luck???

You know, that may be partly true, but sometimes you have to create your good luck. There were years where we just felt we had enough talent and did not add a few more cogs to get us over the hump. But we just could not get there. It was 10 - 15 years ago that I had those thoughts. I wonder why you have that person's picture at the top of this article. He always thought that we had to build the team through the draft but failed to realize just how close we were and failed to add a bit more talent to win the super bowl.

Count me as one who feels that we wasted two first ballot hall of famers with getting only two championships.

9 points
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packers_0808's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:16 pm

I feel like Rodgers had the good luck of getting drafted by us. I mean, only Packers fans can deal with that obsessive God complex he's got going on. Man, I hope he gets traded to the jets so bad. I think I'm going to take a darkness retreat to contemplate buying a Jordan Love jersey.

-3 points
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packers_0808's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:16 pm

.

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BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2023 at 02:47 pm

I feel like Rodgers is lucky to have one Super Bowl at all...

I think Mike McCarthy might be the luckiest SB Winning HC in history... (*He did a great job that year with all the guys we had on IR though, I give him credit for that, as well as TT finding guys that year...)

Murphy, "We're not idiots..." is making me wonder who "we" is... Looking at his decisions lately, the way he changed the organizational structure to protect himself and obscure the decision making process tells me he certainly isn't an idiot when it comes to his own job security.

As far as the Packers go, there are certainly some idiots around, just look at some of these comments! ; P

3 points
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davekenya's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:51 pm

I really don't get why people are antagonistic about AR making a personal choice to take a retreat to gather his thoughts and clear his head -- instead of listening to the wonders of social media dictating what he should do...

'Darkness retreats' have a proven place in many cultures in history. I've never done one, but can easily see how they might be effective.

If not effective for AR, what's the loss? With that in mind, what's the gripe for him doing one?

1 points
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GP1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:46 pm

One should always build a team through the draft but then you have to finish it with a star or two eg The Minister of Defence .
That being said I think most of our problems have been in managing successive divas.
The 1st one seemed to have a ME complex. The 2nd one a GOD complex.
I don't know how they could have been reined in but they weren't.

0 points
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davekenya's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:19 pm

I agree this has been a problem. For a new first-time HC (MLF) inheriting AR, that would be a daunting task. Now (today) reading about Russ Wilson's demands in Seattle and his somewhat 'bizarre' practices in Denver (with new first-time HC Hackett), I shudder to say AR may not be the biggest QB ego problem out there...

2 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:45 pm

They lost Nick Collins and Jermichael Finley to neck injuries in their prime. Sam Shields career got cut got short due to concussions. That cant be labeled as anything less than bad luck. 3 absolute gems by Thompson that he could never replace.

1 points
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greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:36 am

Eh, Bruce… it’s an argument, but we all see how fortunate we’ve been as Packer fans compared to fans of other teams around the NFL.

We’ve had 3 HOF QBs play for us. All 3 had incredibly long, distinctive careers.

1 of them won multiple Championships.

Fan frustration is driven by missed opportunities, and most of those involve the FO. Sorry, but that is true. Fans have every right to be frustrated. We’ve just spent months/years discussing many of those reasons.

Are the Packers not a corporation? If I wasted resources like the Packers FO has, I wouldn’t be in business.

You might want to poke a different bear.

13 points
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marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:21 am

Maybe there is a milligram or two of truth in the statement that fan frustration is driven by missed opportunities.

Go ask the Lions fans how they feel about having had no opportunities to miss.

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greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:46 am

Oh, please…

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:15 am

False equivalency Friday. Don't get me started on the 30 year Plan miscues, malpractice and misuses of assets...

6 points
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Packerpasty's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:04 pm

well...theres some truth to that..I know many Lions fans they would gladly take all our winning seasons and playoff games, primetime games, etc...we are a bit spoiled...as far as winning a Super Bowl, that a bit hard to do...that Seattle game still haunts me...but I suppose that was Rodgers fault he didn't volunteer for special teams....

0 points
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barutanseijin's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:47 pm

Rodgers just wasn’t good enough to score TDs against Richard Sherman and the Legion of Boom defense. He threw for a paltry 178 yds & 2 INTs. That’s why they lost. Too bad they didn’t let Bostick play QB.

0 points
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packanimal's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:41 am

Though obviously irrelevant to this discussion, Arnie Herber is another Packers QB in the HoF.

8 points
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TheVOR's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:45 am

Actually, the Green Bay Packers have had incredible fortune at the most important position on the field. We’ve had a long storied of history of great quarterback play with this franchise.. We had Lynn Dickey, who shattered most of Bart Starr’s records and played for some really bad management and coaching. There are a few others in my lifetime. Tobin Rote comes to mind. You can also make a case for Don Majikowski who brought back more excitement to that position just prior to Favre coming on the scene.

Green Bay has had incredible history and fortune at the quarterback position. I look forward to the next great leader at the quarterback position in Green Bay in the Post Rodgers era. I’m reasonably certain it won’t be Jordan Love, however that doesn’t mean we won’t once again have a great quarterback.. history often repeats itself, and it certainly does at the quarterback position in Green Bay.

I’d love to see a deal with the New York Jets that included Wilson in exchange for Rodgers along with draft picks. That guy had a ton of raw talent coming out and was absolutely destroyed by the Jets organization. Big NFL arm. It might be too late for him however, he got destroyed up there as a young quarterback, and that always leaves a mark and seldom do these guys go elsewhere, and all of a sudden become resurrected.

-4 points
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dobber's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:08 am

"I’m reasonably certain it won’t be Jordan Love, "

I just think of it as--assuming the change happens this year or next--Love getting first crack at the job (next man up). If he wins it and plays well, great. If not, the organization needs to be honest in its appraisal and look for the next guy. Whatever happens, 12's time in the "QB of the Packers" Chair is short, and his replacement is imminent either way.

"I’d love to see a deal with the New York Jets that included Wilson in exchange for Rodgers along with draft picks."

When the time comes to replace 12, they'll need to find a backup, yes, and I'd hope that guy has the talent to challenge Love (may the best man win the job!). The issues I have with players in return are...1. they eat up cap space, and 2. they're unlikely to contribute long into the next Packers window.

Wilson has a low cash value on his deal, but his roster bonuses pay at training camp, so they'll travel. Maybe that's not a problem, but his dead hit against the Jets cap will likely be an issue for them. My understanding is that he also has a big ego and has struggled in responding to coaching. I don't know how true that is. But if he's got his head on straight, he could be a franchise QB. Certainly, LaF has an in on that info with his brother and Saleh.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:34 am

I don’t really buy in to the Wilson optimism, but one never knows. I also am not sure what Love will be, and I think it will take a season or a majority of one to find out. That said, if it’s not overly cap harmful—which remains important for at least a year—the idea of true competition is a good one. If Rodgers goes and they don’t truly view Etling as a lot more than his history suggests, then bringing in talent is likely.

The salient point here is that under this logic, we’ve crossed the Rubicon without getting dragged under and moved on. That may well be a multi QB process, but competition boosts the odds.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:18 am

Wilson lacks mental toughness. See if he comes down to earth?

2 points
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greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:19 am

I don't think any deal with the Jets happens unless we take QB Zach Wilson as part of the trade.

Remember, any deal with the Jets will have to include the Packers removing as much cap load as possible for them to make it work. A trade between the two clubs will have to involve mutually beneficial actions by each team involved, not just players or picks.

The Jets have no cap. The Packer would be seeking to unload a significant part of its cap in trading Aaron Rodgers to them.

The impetus for the Jets to make such a trade is they wish to win a Super Bowl. Taking on that kind of cap commitment requires some help from their trading partner, which the Jets can pay for in draft compensation.

The impetus for the Packers to make such a trade is to begin a road that leads to winning a Super Bowl by fixing it's own cap, and being able to establish their own younger talent at QB1, while surrounding him with the talent necessary to win it all via draft capital compensation.

-1 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:40 pm

"but we all see how fortunate we’ve been as Packer fans compared to fans of other teams around the NFL."

Yeah? I don't see that on these boards. I see very little gratitude for our fortune.

0 points
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dobber's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:51 pm

Professional sports is a forward-looking industry.

3 points
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MainePackFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:35 pm

That doesn't mean you can't appreciate the past.

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Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:11 pm

Of course one appreciates the Packers’ past and should do, but to do so rationally, one must be able to distinguish what was from what is, because the past is no longer here.

-1 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:06 pm

If the question is would anyone rather be a Lions or Bears fan than a Packers fan over the last decade, I think you would get near unanimity here and among neutrals.

The question is not that, but whether you’d rather be a Lions or Bears fan now and over the coming years. That’s what you seem to miss and that looks a lot less clear.

2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:48 pm

I'll take my chances on the Packers now and over the coming years as well. Do you feel we would be better off with the Bears roster and cap space. Do you think the Lions make a 30 year run while we wallow in mediocrity at best ? I could be wrong, but I don't see the doom and gloom you do.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:09 pm

I think you don’t want to accept that we may be. How well the Bears do is unknowable, but what they are doing was forced on them by a long period of what we are doing now if Rodgers returns. The difference with them was it was aging and big contracts on D primarily. Either way they left the league behind in the wrong direction and couldn’t let go of past hopes for too long. Now they have there’s a chance that they get it right.

Right now, the Lions are ascending from the cellars. 30 years ago we were them and no one gave us a cat in hell’s chance of being players. Then we too started to ascend. Sport isn’t a game of yesterdays but tomorrows. Turn around and the view isn’t as rosy.

The doom lifts when we finally throw off delusion and start to move outward not inevitably older at QB with no cap and Barry/LaFleur. Ope is in getting better not trying to turn clocks back with the coffers bare. Love is hope, not necessarily for him, but because he would signify we’ve let go of futile regret funded by future years.

-2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:17 pm

The Bears suck because their FO has sucked for years. The same thing applied to the Lions. The difference is the Lions FO is hitting the draft picks and creating a winning culture in their locker room and the Bears haven't.

You are critical of many aspects of this team, AR, MM, MLF and many others. The only one you seem to have any support for is Gute. So who do you think should fill these positions? Would you have drafted Jordan? What is Coldworld's plan to make this team better?

You seem to think this organization isn't very good. I disagree. At the end of the day whatever happens on the field is the definitive answer.

Perhaps it is you who does not want to accept what we may be :)

0 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:50 pm

A voice of reason. Thank you!

According to CW, we're on the "precipice of irrelevance" and about to "fall off a cliff" after one losing season. I've asked him to share his vision of this cliff we're about to fall off of...and nothing.

This is a great site in a lot of ways, but doom and gloom seem to rule the day unfortunately. And CW seems to lead the way with his constant, nonstop criticisms of the coaching staff and FO. I will say that his screen name is very appropriate considering his outlook on things.

2 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2023 at 05:07 pm

What?

Who gives a % who wants to be a bares or Lions fan?

If there is a Packer fan on earth who wants to become either a Lions fan or a bares fan, let them and good riddance...

You either are or you aren't a Packer fan. Murphy, AR12, nor anyone else can make me change my allegiance.

If others are so inclined, let them...

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:44 pm

I'd rather be a Packers fan. Because if I was a Bears fan, or a Lions fan, I'd have to kill myself.

Seriously, we're going to put a good team on the field next year that should make a strong run for the division title. Our division brethren will find a multitude of ways to self-destruct, as they always have.

Personally, I'm stoked about next year. If we added a couple of guys on offense, and improved the blocking , we could be pretty good if Love is the real deal.

0 points
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dgtalmn's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:37 am

Sorry I believe the organization has not done as good of a job. Yes personnel movement and salary cap issues are hard to over come, but it is your job as an organization to get better.

Speaking from an individual that has over 25 years of successfully managing multi-million dollar projects. BTW, if I "didn't do a good job" I would have been fired.

7 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:13 am

This FO got neither QB. This FO did create the cap situation and handle player retention. Your comment made me laugh, because the article is equivalent to suggesting going to one’s shareholders and saying “I’m sorry we couldn’t perform as we over and miss spent our budget but we did did the best you could ask for. Really we overachieved if you think how big a problem we created.”

13 points
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greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:43 am

"Quite frankly... we overachieved!!! Just look at us!!!"

There's your Mad Magazine cover.

LOL. Today's gonna be a good day. Thanks, bro!

6 points
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jurp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:46 am

You forgot to end that with "so everyone got Participation Ribbons for trying really, really hard!"

6 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:19 am

The BOD and Daddy, forgives you. Let's get 'em Next year...

0 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:42 am

yes @dgtalmn, but they weren't billion dollar projects, were they? you should have been fired for your lack of ambition if nothing else, or at a minimum your inability to manage a multimillion dollar project into a billion or more.

that reads like failure to me.

-2 points
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Vachio's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:18 am

Tell us you have no clue how corporate project management works without saying you have no clue how corporate project management works. SMH.

-3 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:01 pm

tell us you have no sense of humor or understanding of sarcasm without actually saying it...

3 points
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GP1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:50 pm

Speaking about you; were you the best person in the USA at what you did? Was there ever a better job anywhere than the one you did?
"Good job" is substantially f=different to the BEST job which is what is required to win S.B.

1 points
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GP1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:50 pm

Speaking about you; were you the best person in the USA at what you did? Was there ever a better job anywhere than the one you did?
"Good job" is substantially f=different to the BEST job which is what is required to win S.B.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:49 am

I used to blame Ted Thompson ALL the time for not doing "enough". As far as I was concerned, it was ALL Ted's fault the Packers didn't more SBs, especially up to about 2014 when he signed Peppers. But what I finally realized was Thompson was an excellent GM. If you have ANY doubt, just look at the Packers salary cap right now and tell me I'm wrong.

Ron Wolf came in and got Brett Favre. Ted Thompson's first pick was Aaron Rodgers. Gute waited a minute before drafting who he thought was the Packers NEXT great QB. He wanted to make his mark and I think it was a good plan until Murphy made the organization look like IDIOTS. Yup, ole Mark "we're not idiots" Murphy.

Maybe the franchise could have and should have won more. That's up for debate and opinion. Wolf felt he should have won more. Thompson ALWAYS had an eye on the future and what's BEST for the Packers future as well as right now. Gute has had to contend with a meddling Team President who wants to play owner and when you think about it, has done a pretty good F'ng job.

30 years of great football with only 5 seasons of losing records...FIVE! I'll also add that two of those have come with Murphy playing owner. Maybe they should have won more, but it's been a hell of a fun 30 years of Packers football. Now, if Murphy would get the hell out of the way, I think we could have another 10 plus with Jordan Love.

Get out of the way Mark!

18 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:40 am

"Gute waited a minute before drafting who he thought was the Packers NEXT great QB. He wanted to make his mark and I think it was a good plan until Murphy made the organization look like IDIOTS. Yup, ole Mark "we're not idiots" Murphy."

I think it was a good plan, but the timing of it was off IMO. He made the move too soon. He should have made the move 2-3 years later. When Thompson drafted Rodgers, it was under different circumstances.

One of the biggest differences from When Thompson picked Rodgers is that Rodgers was the considered number 1 QB in the draft by most. He then fell to GB. Also the previous years Favre had been talking about retirement.

-1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:19 am

In retrospect that's easy to say, but remember that Rodgers in 2019, while better than he was last year, was a fading star. Gute thought it was time to draft his successor, and after Love slid down draft boards after his 2019 season (he was thought to be a top 10 pick prior to the 2019 season), he thought it was great to scoop him up.

What threw a wrench in that plan was what no one expected: Rodgers would suddenly have two of the best seasons of his career and win back to back MVPs. That delayed the plan. Now that Rodgers is fading again, it is time to execute the plan that was once delayed

4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:01 am

Is Rodgers fading again? Or were the circumstances around him the real reasons for the down year?

There were too many other issues going on around him to say for certain that he is fading. His broken thumb and other injuries I think played a bigger part in the down year, then what has really been talked about. The coaching changes, the OL struggles, the WR issues. There was a lot going on.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:22 pm

Maybe both. The only thing certain is he will fade soon if he hasn’t faded now. He’s not been as good as the prior year in each of the last two. Is that a physical trend mostly or due to roster and coaching? I’d say both but that it doesn’t matter because neither can be fixed. He won’t get younger and we only have draft and developmental left to fix it while he is here. Either way isn’t a dead end path.

0 points
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barutanseijin's picture

February 24, 2023 at 05:10 pm

“Extenuating”? Injuries are par for the course with older players. Are you going to make the same excuse again next year when his [whatever] is bothering him?

0 points
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MainePackFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:58 pm

Injuries are par for the course at the QB position regardless of age. For example, Lamar Jackson and Tua. It kind of goes with the territory. It's not an excuse to say an injury affected a players performance, It's a reality.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:23 am

The fading star got them to the NFCCH in LaFleur's first shot at being a HC.

1 points
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UdderApocowlipse's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:15 am

Misery is wasted on the miserable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLn_Uu_mgoQ

People are lucky to have the "heartbreak" they've had surrounding this excellently managed run.

In a way a little like the movie The Way We Were.

Perhaps it's nothing about the heartbreak that is memorable, but our emotions during those times, and "fans" just wish to relive those experiences again. Looking back, those were good moments.

It's about the journey. Alan Jackson's I Wish I Could Back Up is about memories and wanting to relive those times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQWj0CEIsAM

He sings about regrets but I don't know how much they're regrets as they are expressions of being human.

I can't blame Murphy. To me blaming Murphy is blaming an archetype.

-8 points
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UdderApocowlipse's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:53 am

A glimpse into the uncertainty of mortality can be upsetting. And I wasn't saying that Murphy was free of making strategic errors, just that raking him over the coals is fruitless.

0 points
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lou's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:22 am

To add to the acquisition of the 2 HOF QB's, they each built on that to win Super Bowls by free agent signings of 2 HOF players, Wolf brought in Reggie White and Thompson brought in Charles Woodson and that tipped the scales.

I agree on getting the self proclaimed Packer Czar Mark Murphy out of the way too, we need to put the organization structure back that allowed Wolf and Thompson to do their jobs. Below from a chat this week is Press Gazette writer Pete Dougherty saying the same thing;

The Packers' GM and coach job are really attractive to scouts and coaches in the league for a few reasons. One is, it's all about football here. There's not an owner trying to make a profit, so all the revenue is put back into the team and facilities, etc., along with the rainy day fund. But as you suggest, how the organization is structured will matter too. For instance, Ron Wolf would never have taken the job here unless Harlan gave him full control of football decisions. So let's say the Packers end up parting ways with Gutekunst in a couple years.
To get a really good GM (or coveted prospect) they very well might have to return to the setup they had before Murphy made himself head of football, with the GM the head of everything. As I've stated on these chats numerous times, for this franchise I think the GM as football czar is the best setup because of its streamlined accountability. The GM is responsible for how football performs, and if the CEO and executive committee don't think it's doing well enough, they fire the GM and hire a new one. Murphy has 2 1/2 years left as CEO. It seems doubtful he'll change the hierarchy between now and then, so when the executive committee hires his replacement it will have to take into account what hierarchy it prefers.

9 points
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bjkdad44's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:01 am

Couldn’t agree more!!!

2 points
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dobber's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:12 am

"I used to blame Ted Thompson ALL the time for not doing "enough". "

IMO, TT was playing with an older set of GM tools and didn't allow himself to adapt as the CBA allowed player contracts (esp. rookie deals) and trading practices to evolve. Whether it was the onset of his health issues or just his training and beliefs, he was always a stalwart on minding the cap and working the draft--enough so that when Gute moved into that role, he had space to buy with (and turn the Packers fortunes around).

2 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:10 pm

@dobber - and yet, year after year, the team was always in the hunt. divine providence reared it's ugly head. losing nick collins cost us superbowls. that's just fact. ted was never able to replace #nickdapick.

let's not even think about bostick. that was truly our year. back to ted, he was the best GM in football, and he managed the team prudently. he never embarrassed the franchise by signing guys who didn't belong in GB. was i ever mad that he was tight with a dime, yes. did i ever think he wasn't in selfless service to the organization? NO.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:31 am

Two scapegoats for the Fans, now fill in the rest of the blanks.

-1 points
0
1
stockholder's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:05 am

No Sense ? -
It's about how to collect Lombardi Trophies.
Competitive year in and year out?
IT Looks/Seems more like Contentment!
Did they give them everything they needed?
The fulfillment of what was needed,
Was less than Inspirational.
How many years did we put our hopes on drafting?
And you only have to look at the firings
to know the coaches and FO were at odds.
Throw in the busts. And you found your answer.

-6 points
7
13
BradHTX's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:15 am

One of my favorite amusements is reading stockholder’s comments and imagining a bongo drum soundtrack underneath, like a beat poetry slam. Finger snaps, stockholder. Cool, baby.

5 points
8
3
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:25 am

Brad, you fucker! I just read his next post with bongo drums...

LOL

0 points
2
2
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:34 am

btw, I'm kinda liking bamboo chimes instead...

-1 points
1
2
barutanseijin's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:54 pm

Hey Daddy-O, that was my joke from a day or two ago

0 points
0
0
BradHTX's picture

February 25, 2023 at 06:52 am

Sorry to plagiarize, good sir. I’m traveling and not reading all the comments for every article. Great minds think alike!

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:59 am

Well, I tried a translation and failed, but going by the gist of this gem the Bonkers Scale came up with a tame 1 on the scale, mainly based on the "And you only have to look at the firings to know the coaches and FO were at odds." What

2 points
4
2
stockholder's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:20 am

Write the pope.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:26 pm

If he’s your source for football insight then it is no wonder it’s Messi.

0 points
1
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:29 am

Agree, too many whiffs and head scratchers. You cannot let guys like Lawrence Guy slide off the squad at cut-downs, or Taysom Hill and Tollefson and keep complete stiffs like Bostic, Burks, Josh jones etc.

3 points
6
3
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:12 pm

Aren’t they the flip side of Campbell, Lazard, Nixon even Lewis etc? If so I’d say that’s one area we’ve won on.

-1 points
0
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:32 pm

They were not drafted.

-1 points
0
1
barutanseijin's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:57 pm

TT was complacent with role players. Wolf churned the roster looking for ways to improve.

-1 points
0
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:11 pm

If Wolf made a mistake, he admitted it and tried to rectify the error. Ted had habit of doubling down on some of his picks.

0 points
1
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:08 am

We all can find something to complain about. We can definitely find things to nit pick and complain about.

My biggest complaint about Thompson is the same thing that Ron wolf criticized himself for. That he didn't provide enough weapons for their HOF QB's.

Before 2010, Thompson stacked the WR position. They had Driver, but then he add Jennings, Jones and Nelson. The reason the offense became as good as it did was because they invested heavily into the WR position. They put the weapons around the QB. Then they drafted Cobb after the Super Bowl. And after that they drafted Adams, 3 years later. After Adams, they didn't use a 2nd round pick or higher on a WR until last year when they took Watson.

There is a reason why they won the Super Bowl. Yes the defense was great that year. But the offense had invested a lot of picks into the WR position. They just haven't been doing that since the Super Bowl. They have spent 3 high picks on the position since then. Cobb in 2011, Adams in 2014, and Watson in 2022. That isn't enough!

Regardless of who the QB is this coming year and moving forward, they have to get back to investing higher picks into the position more often!

15 points
18
3
stockholder's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:19 am

I keep reading we're only one WR away now.
Why shouldn't they draft one? If not two again.

0 points
5
5
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:41 am

I hope they do draft another WR higher this year. I'd love to see them pair Watson, Doubs with a rookie, and whoever else they bring in.

They need to keep adding talent.

5 points
5
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:21 am

Quentin Johnston in R1 or Cedric Tillman in R2 would be my preferences for early round WRs

1 points
2
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:50 am

I think Johnson would be a great one to pair with Watson.

I just am not sure if I want to use a 1st round pick on a WR. But if he is there and is the best player available, do it. I just think that picking at 15 they could potentially get an impact defender (pass rusher, S) that could make a huge difference. Then look to get a WR later. They have been really good at finding 2nd round WR's over the years.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:37 am

If he was still there @ #15, Goodell would write his name on the card for the Pack. I would still take Broderick Jones over the WR spot.

1 points
2
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:13 am

I'm ok without drafting a WR in the first round. We have done really well since then. But at the same time, if you can add a playmaker, I think you need to do it. Regardless of position.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:47 am

The two best Offensive playmakers are:
Robinson Rb
Jalen Hyatt Wr
Hyatt has the best tape of any WR.
Yes. He's light.
But the speed at 4.3 is unmatchable.
Watch the length on his legs. The hands.
Watch him against ALABAMA.
I say Alabama because of their Safeties.
Next Tillman and Hooker also are great choices.
Hooker only had 2 INTs. But take Hyatt first.
Another guy to draft is Andrei Iosivas WR. Later.

-3 points
0
3
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:15 pm

Hyatt's speed would be amazing to pair with Watson.

I have seen him round 1-2 range. So I'm not sure where he will end up being picked at. But adding a guy with speed like that to pair with Watson and Doubs would definitely form a really good young nucleus of talent.

-1 points
0
1
BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:22 pm

So many different ways to view the draft.

These are our First Round Picks... (Going back to '88)

Quay Walker
Devonte Wyatt
Eric Stokes
Jordan Love
Rashan Gary
Darnell Savage Jr.
Jaire Alexander
Kenny Clark
Damarious Randall
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Datone Jones
Nick Perry
Derek Sherrod
Brian Bulaga
B.J. Raji
Clay Matthews
Justin Harrell
A.J. Hawk
Aaron Rodgers
Ahmad Carroll
Nick Barnett
Javon Walker
Jamal Reynolds
Bubba Franks
Antuan Edwards
Vonnie Holliday
Ross Verba
John Michels
Craig Newsome
Aaron Taylor
Wayne Simmons
Terrell Buckley
Vinnie Clark
Tony Bennett
1989 - *Tony Mandarich
1988 - Sterling Sharpe

If we were to draft player X on defense and he turns out to be a total bust, for whatever reason, and Quentin Johnston goes the very next pick to the Washington Non-Commanders to become a HOFer in hindsight it would be easy to say we made a mistake.

If we draft Broderick Jones at #15 Overall and he becomes a FHOFer and Quentin Johnston goes the Giants at 25 or Cowboys at 26 and becomes a FHOFer, there will still be those who say Gutey made a mistake not taking him, even if Jones becomes a HOFer.

Worst case scenario, we draft Quentin Johnston at #15 overall and he becomes a bust for some reason. It's not like we haven't had plenty of 1st round busts in the last two decades, because we've had more than our fair share IMO.

The issue then become the value of the picks. Which is a whole different discussion.

Just look at 1988 and 1989...

Sterling Sharpe (Should be in the HOF) and Tony Mandarich... (Talk about polar opposite 1st round picks.)

We all know the players we could've taken instead of Mandarich. It's been the topic of discussion for decades. (Barry Sanders HOF, Derrick Thomas HOF, Deion Sanders HOF)

Our problem this year is we don't have the benefit of hindsight before the fact, so we have to trust Gutey to draft the BPA. Here's hoping he and his scouting staff choose wisely.

I really don't care who Gutey picks in the first round if he becomes a great football player for the Packers.

Quentin Johnston
Bijan Robinson
Michael Mayer
Brian Branch
Joey Porter Jr.
Jaxon Smith-Njigba
Luke Musgrave
Bryan Bresee

If anyone can tell me out of the above players who will be a bust and who will be HOFers, please let me and Gutey know ASAP, we need your help...

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:35 pm

Lol. If I could I’d be a GM, no, I’d have retired owning Vegas years ago.

0 points
1
1
Rebelgb's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:47 am

Ive never understood the criticism about not adding more offensive talent. It just doesnt jive with the statistics. Other than last year, the Pack has had one of the best offenses in football year after year. Rodgers has been to every probowl for what? 13 years straight? He has won 3 Mvps? I mean you dont do that with a lack of talent on offense.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:40 am

The problem has been they stopped investing higher resources into the position. After Drafting Cobb in 2011, this is what their drafts have looked like for WR.

2012 no WR drafted
2013 they drafted 2 WR's in the 7th round. Charles Johnson, Ken Dorsey
2014 they drafted Adams in the 2nd, Abbrederis in the 5th and Janis in the 7th.
2015 they did draft Ty Montgomery in the 3rd, but he was ultimately converted to a RB.
2016 they drafted Trevor Davis in the 5th round.
2017 they drafted DeAngelo Yancey in the 5th and Malachi Dupre in the 7th.
2018 they drafted J'Mon Moore in the 4th, MVS in the 5th, EQ in the 6th.
2019 no WR drafted
2020 no WR drafted
2021 they drafted Amari Rodgers in the 3rd
2022 they drafted Christian Watson in the 2nd, Romeo Doubs in the 4th and Samori Toure in the 7th.

Just the way I view the draft, 1st and 2nd round picks are high picks (impact players/starters). 3rd - 5th round are mid round picks (starters to role players to backups). 6th and 7th round picks are late round picks (flyer picks, special teams players, seeking hidden gems).

Since 2012, they have spent 2 high picks on WR (Adams and Watson). They have used 8 mid round picks on WR's. (2 3rd round, 2 4th round, 4 5th round). They spent 6 draft picks on late round WR's.

So when I view this I don't feel they have used a lot of high draft picks on the WR position. How much better would they have been had they drafted Juju Smith-Schuster in the 2nd round of the 2017 draft instead of Josh Jones. Juju was drafted 1 pick after Jones. What if in 2019 they draft Terry McLaurin instead of Jace Sternberger. Again 1 pick after they took Sterberger. I know this is cherry picking a couple of picks and its all in hindsight, but they were each taken 1 pick after the Packers and have turned into very good NFL players. Where the guys the Packers took, aren't in the league.

3 points
4
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:45 am

Thank you, good work. The Evidence File doesn't lie.

2 points
3
1
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:41 am

its kinda early in the "season" for wide receiver fever...

spend all the high picks on WR???...

What is needed is strong trenches.

The DL needs reinforcements. Reed and Lowry gonna be out. Late round DL have been pretty worthless. Edge is more important than WR for team success.

rounds 2-3-4 are high enough and then only if a value exists, and only one before the 6-7 rounds please, maybe one more late - the room is building.

Finley was added along with the WR's mentioned above. He made the defense respect the middle of the field allowing all those WR to work outside the numbers with one on one coverages. just sayin'...

-1 points
2
3
RCPackerFan's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:54 am

Just trying to shift our focus in a new direction. ;)

I agree completely about having to build up the trenches. I think the DL is most important this year. Like you said Reed and Lowry potentially will be gone. They drafted Wyatt last year and I think he will be a key player. They have Slaton to go with Clark. But they need more help then that. They need some instant impact players on the DL.

OL they have invested a lot of picks into, and they will have 4 of their 5 positions set. they need to figure RT, and then backup roles, but they have some good candidates. And they have been good at finding mid round guys that can come in and contribute.

They definitely need to add TE's. And need pass rushers.

But my point is for WR, they have to continue to add to the position. Look at the difference Watson made when he started figuring things out. Doubs was great until his injury. Beyond them though right now they don't have a lot. Mostly questions. But if they can add another dynamic playmaker that would changed the offense for the better.

1 points
1
0
Savage57's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:09 am

Thanks for sprinkling a hefty dose of the reality of how football plays out on the field, on a topic that slithers out from under a rock every offseason following a Packers season which ends short of a championship.

Engaging in bipartite competition with the expectation that if you don't triumph, someone in the front office needs to be fired about it is like saying while you were driving and someone plowed into the side of your car, the manufacturer needs to get rid of the guy who green lighted making that model vehicle.

4 points
9
5
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:42 am

finally... someone who can see where the blame belongs!

I always hated the Ford Pinto...

0 points
0
0
marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:14 am

Totally agree. And I've been saying it for years.

6 points
9
3
T7Steve's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:18 am

"Should has no place in football!" neither does "luck". If you rely on luck you'll get it, except it will be the bad kind.

Who hires and retains coaches?

Would the fans of the 49ers have been "satisfied" with "only two" championships with Montana and Young? "Should" the Chiefs' fans be "satisfied" and rest on their laurels now that they just got their 2nd with Pat M?

Did Vince or Curly stay "satisfied"?

Stay "satisfied" and NEVER win another championship. If the FO ignores the fans dissatisfaction, does that mean they're "satisfied"?

1 points
8
7
PackyCheese500's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:22 am

Well said!

4 points
4
0
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:59 am

No one talked about "relying" on luck and they have not. But most teams that win get lucky, either with a season with few injuries, or ref's calls going their way, or the opposite team just playing poorly. Like why didn't SF fold in the playoffs against GB like they did this year in the playoffs?

Satisfaction about past accomplishments does NOT mean you're not doing everything possible to put. yourself in a position to win another Title.

But there's way too many factors beyond anyone's control that can turn a season into a great year or a really tough year.

-1 points
0
1
SinceLombardi's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:00 pm

Keeping bad coordinators too long isn’t luck. Shawn Menenga, Drayton, Pettine and Barry were bad picks to start with and stayed too long.
Martindale , Fangio and may other successful candidates were available and went elsewhere. Martindale is one of the main reasons the NYG made the playoffs ( and maybe we didn’t)

1 points
1
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:20 am

TGIF! I also put that on my twin brother's shoes to remind him:

"Toes Go In First"

About the Packers: I wouldn't trade all those moments for nothing. It adds to my life. Yep, those other moments that rip your heart out a bit, still teach you about something bigger than football. I like the characters, their stories, reliving the rich history of the Packers. Getting excited about the future, the draft.

I know we appear to be at a crossroads. I hope there is a plan in place...I just want to know there is a plan in place. I haven't seen it yet...waiting for it to clear up a bit.

Currently, as it stands...I know I am blessed and there are so many other topics in life that require more time and attention. I just want to get excited about an upcoming season again and believe that the players are giving it their all as a team. That is all I ask...give it all you got on the field and coaches/FO hold yourselves and the players accountable to field the best team you got while also remembering you are representing the Green Bay Packers and WI and Green Bay. Maybe bring back "boring" to Green Bay and less glitz and glamour.

GPG!

2 points
6
4
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:47 am

so you are saying GB should say "Buh Bye" to Hollywood?

No more actresses, sportscasters or music stars?

No more NBA ownership with beer chugging?

It almost seems like you want football in lil GB to resemble actual football and not the spectacle that the rigged, over-regulated and over-officiated soap opera that the NFL trots out onto the field every week of the year in season and out.

There is nothing beautiful or mysterious about the current NFL product.

Shame on you ... ;-)

0 points
2
2
pantz_bURp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:07 am

Yes JB, yes!...I acknowledge that I am the one that needs to change to try and keep up with today's NFL. But, I am fighting it as best I can for as long as I can.

There is beauty in simplicity. Just look up the Packer Sweep! Beautiful, simple...the D knew it was coming and couldn't stop it. (chef's kiss)

Where is your penguin with the cap? :)

0 points
0
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:29 am

He went into a darkness retreat at the South Pole, I expect him back when hell freezes over...

2 points
2
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:42 am

I love it! You are rather smart JB...all penguins are around the south pole. Not the north pole like many (me) thought.

I do like the new you...hell yeah, give me another barkeep, along with the beer nutz.

0 points
0
0
egbertsouse's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:36 am

This is nothing but Packer front office propaganda. Being a writer for a fan site doesn’t mean that you are a shill for Murphy. Are you shooting for a job at Packers.com? That is where you belong if this is what you intend to write.

3 points
11
8
marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:44 am

Are you shooting for a job at Vikings.com? That is where you belong if this is what you intend to write.

See how dumb that logic is?

-3 points
6
9
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:49 am

Mister, I know Spoffy and you sir are no Spoffy!

1 points
2
1
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:38 am

There is a component... in play... we all see it...

Imagine, if you will, living across the street from Matt LaFleur's office. Walking to the kitchen in your underwear to make coffee in the morning.

"Oh... Hi!"

Do you salute? Wave? Scratch your balls?

-1 points
1
2
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:56 pm

I'm a big nut scratcher in the AM... just sayin...

0 points
0
0
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:01 pm

I think you have to look at your own attitude here if you can't even entertain the idea that this is a fair perspective to have on the history of the Packers, even if you don't agree. But this is a perspective that many fans have, and it is truly not propaganda. It is opinion. Big difference there.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:25 pm

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but equally they are entitled to judge it and opine on its merits. You seem to confuse this.

“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

Douglas Adams.

2 points
3
1
Handsback's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:54 am

Bruce, good job and doing it knowing you were going to take a lot of hits.
The luck word is thrown around so much that I wonder if people understand what's behind its implication. Is it luck when a team keeps their starters healthy for the SB and lose to a team that is using UDFA as a pass rusher? Because the Steelers were pretty healthy compared to Green Bay in that SB and lost.
On the other hand...I saw Kapernack running like crazy against the Packers and being chased by a limping OLB. GB lost that game.
Football is a great game because of the complexity of the team. You can't figure on making it to the playoffs with all your starters from week 1. You have to plan on backfilling as you go. Sometimes you guess right and have the right bench to fill in and sometimes you don't . To me, the difference isn't the player availability, its how you coach with what you have. You make the adjustments and keep the team competitive. THAT is what we have not seen from MLF's staff yet, because we haven't seen his full offense implemented and run.
Bottom line, is it luck or coaching anticipating your roster weaknesses and planning ahead to scheme for upcoming opponents? As an example....I personally think they need more line talent on both sides of the ball, but haven't seen any adjustments to cover their deficiency in that area during games. That's not bad luck, its bad planning.
Just MHO...

7 points
8
1
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:01 am

I love your post.

Roster building and the subsequent COACHING that needs to take place is critical. Just having some great starters doesn't get it done. Think about what "bad luck" things happened in the past to derail GB Championship seasons where the team seemed to be ready to ascend.

Brandon Bostick? really? Stupid is as stupid does. Coaching please...

Details matter... A LOT!!! Untimely fumbles? That's what happens to Pittsburgh RB, not our guys! ...yet now they seem to be a part of our stew recipe. COACHING - it isn't just technical details, it is instilling a mindset that there are points in a game that matter more than others and THAT IS WHEN YOUR PLAY NEEDS TO BE AT IT'S BEST! Think last drive of the Ice Bowl. Think the 30 yd pass to Greg Jennings in the SB. Think Jared Bush grabbing the INT to seal the game. Big moments where no mistakes were made. Those moments are not luck, they are not accidents. ...and neither are the same moments where players do not do the right and possible thing and their team ends up losing.

Coaching matters ...A LOT. Think passing from the 2 with Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. just stoopid. Think not running an 1800 yd RB behind a dominant OL on 4th and 1 with minutes remaining at the opponents 35 yd line and punting instead. Oops, that one hits pretty close to home. Coaching stupidity is difficult to overcome, as is stupid play. Those type of details can be lessened considerably by mental focus, proper preparation and coaching the mental side of situational play. It boils down to giving the players everything they need to be successful and then holding them accountable for the results. The same thing the GM needs to do with the HC and his staff. Gutey should have mandated that MLF change his DC after the past 2 seasons of under achievement given the talent of the players. Scheme and coaching on that side of the ball hasn't worked and with the same DC it will not work in the future. Accountability from the Front Office.

Too much, I need a nap...

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:26 pm

It's in the Details. Amendola had a nice comment about Big Bad Bill determining the field conditions at the stadium in AZ required the 7 cleat shoe and He mandated compliance from the entire team when they played in the SB. He stated the slipping and sliding during the '23, SB could have been avoided by being Prepared and proactive.

-1 points
0
1
DoubleJ's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:59 am

31 years would put the start at the 1992 season. At that point there are 3 teams that have won 3+ Super Bowls, Dallas, Denver, and New England. However, I don't think people care as much about the number of wins as they do about appearances. In 31 years of HOF QB play the Packers have 3 total appearances. They had opportunities to make more appearances but squandered those multiple times.

9 points
9
0
splitpea1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:02 am

That's where I'm at as well. No team or it's fans ever want to see their team lose a Super Bowl, but getting there is still better than repeatedly falling short in the NFC title game. Three appearances with two long-tenured HOF QBs falls short of expectations.

When we make the playoffs again, the first thing that has to be addressed is getting back that home field invincibility--like we did last century.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:05 am

If you don’t know the reasons I conclude that you don’t read the content here. It starts with Murphy’s decision to subsume the TT role into his and the resulting series of bad to awful coaching decisions, through perhaps the most egregious surrender of control and future cap for a run back post Adams and cap with a roster seemingly built for Rodgers successor. Murphy’s record is in fact Rodgers’. The Murphy LaFleur contribution was to essentially waste that by not giving him the tools to help him overcome his weaknesses and then not knowing when they had blown it.

Seriously, at this point, I’ve no interest in a fuller rehash. If you don’t at least recognize the nature of the criticism then you either aren’t looking or don’t want to hear it and are oblivious to the weaknesses last year and heading into this year and the lack of options to address them in an era of continuity after a very poor season on a large number of levels, off field and on.

Under no reasonable standard has this team delivered on the talents of Favre and Rodgers in succession as anticipated at any point during those decades, here and among league peers. Further, As of today, this team is not in a logical or promising position for the next few years and has taken a dramatic step back in terms of organizational checks and balances that undid what helped to return us to contention thanks to Harlen and Wolf.

We have no cap. We are led by a cusp of 40 QB coming off a bad season. He doesn’t want and won’t still be playing through a rebuild but his main outlet wanted out. It’s at least plausible that he’s no longer as physically capable as he was in 2020, but perforce he will have to carry this team. He’s about to be paid vastly and suck up our cap till the second half of the decade along side a very young roster around him at skill positions and knowing that we now have to rely on draft and develop almost exclusively to add to that and thus probably a peak 2/3 years out.

But that’s not the half of it, there are myriad questions about coaching talent and decisions on both sides of the ball, about motivation skills, the most insipid offensive design in years and uncertainty over who drives what on top of pre and in game tactical questions and personnel usage …

Yes this team is just the epitome of a rationally managed team with a great off field staff, coherent roster and a tidy future. Take off the blinkers. Turn on critical faculties. There are so many reasons why this team is in its worst hole since Favre arrived. All of them compound.

10 points
12
2
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:58 am

"Murphy’s record is in fact Rodgers’."

Except, Murphy did nothing to bring the supporting cast in to win Super Bowl XLV. Nothing. Murphy has no real ownership in that part of Rodgers' record, except that he was air dropped into it, with Ryan Pickett and Charles Woodson already well into their 2nd seasons with the Packers, thanks to Ted Thompson.

Murphy walked into that Super Bowl like Ted Thompson walked into drafting Aaron Rodgers.

BOOP! Right in their laps. AR was Ted Thompson's very first draft choice, ever. Thompson did, however, put in all the hard work and study to build that roster with exceptional talents, top to bottom, as best he could as Head of Football Operations.

Now, somehow, Russ Ball is Head of Football Operations? WTF?

Bob Harlan set the Gold Standard for running the Green Bay Packers. Separating Business & Football Operations.

Mark Murphy had to F all of that up again. Harlan made that choice because it was all F'd up prior to his separating the two, for very good reason: ZERO CONFUSION as to who made ALL of the football decisions.

1 points
3
2
13TimeChamps's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:16 am

The Bob Harlan/Ron Wolf regime resulted in 1 SB win, the same as the Murphy/Thompson regime, with both having a HOF QB during their tenures. I'll never understand this "Murphy is the root of all things bad in GB". The Packers overall record under Murphy is pretty similar to that of Harlan's.

Harlan apparently walked on water, while Murphy somehow is the Devil. I really don't get it.

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:49 am

Harlen and Wolf turned the franchise around. A feat in itself. TT kept it there and built on that till his health intervened. Murphy has in turn turned it around, right back to the precipice of irrelevance.

2 points
5
3
13TimeChamps's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:55 am

47-19 the past 4 years is the precipice of irrelevance. Got it.

I keep forgetting the 70's and 80's are right around the corner. I need to write that down somewhere so I'll remember it.

1 points
3
2
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:07 pm

How is 3 seasons in a row of 13 wins taken GB to the precipice of irrelevance? They were 1 game away from the playoffs this season. I think you have to redefine that word, unless irrelevant just means you didn't win a title. Then most of the league is irrelevant.

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:32 pm

When approaching a cliff, opining how gentle the hike has been thus far is not a predictor of what lies ahead or mark of wisdom in one who tries to use it as such.

-1 points
2
3
13TimeChamps's picture

February 24, 2023 at 02:06 pm

Just for shits and giggles, could you describe to us this "precipice" as you envision it? I would love to know what the future holds for the Packers as we approach this cliff.

1 points
3
2
13TimeChamps's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:14 pm

So nothing.

2 points
2
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:06 am

so... I take it your glass is slightly less than half full?

keepin' it real, that's the CW we all know and love!

1 points
2
1
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:08 am

Who drank half of my water??? It's half empty!!! LOL.

Point made though.

More people should think back, remember, or research the Tom Braatz era. Then they might get it - a little. It wouldn't be visceral to those who didn't live through that pain.

Thank God for Bob Harlan. He saved that Packers from futility.

Mark Murphy going away from that for his own personal gain is contradictory to what Bob Harlan established, and contradictory to what has proven to have worked the day Harlan tapped Ron Wolf as Head of Football Operations.

Why would anyone allow Murphy to do that?

What is the Board of Directors for?

2 points
4
2
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:26 am

rubber stamping Murphys delusional proposals?

The less the BOD has to do with anything outside the financial aspects of the GBP franchise, the better.

Every bit of the on-field football operations should go through the GM's office.

If the on-field product is floundering, then the BOD and Team President can step in and replace the GM and then get the F out of his way and let him do his thing.

rinse and repeat...

3 points
4
1
Bitternotsour's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:18 pm

#firemarkmurphy

0 points
2
2
PatrickGB's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:08 am

Yes, I am thankful that my team has had TWO HOF QB’s in a row! I also appreciate the fact that In almost every year we have had a winning record. With winning records our draft position has almost always been low. And when I reminded myself that it was low I also reminded myself that it’s not just for the first round but also for every round after that. As other have noted I find some fault with the FO not drafting some players. But by and large they have done ok. And that other teams sure have done worse. We hold this team to a high standard so disappoint will be inevitable. GPG!

7 points
9
2
J-Rome's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:30 am

I see what you mean. After all if rolling the dice with Rodgers last year had worked, there would be no complaints. If your goal is the Super Bowl, you're either a hero or a goat, there is no in between. I think the front office has done a good job of giving the team a chance, but ultimately its the players and coaches that have to come through in the playoffs. Look at all the mistakes by players in 2014. The front office can't control that, but often they shoulder the blame. That said,,,if the front office kicks the can down the road with Rodgers again, and it fails, I think we can all start pointing fingers.

4 points
4
0
dobber's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:17 am

"if the front office kicks the can down the road with Rodgers again, and it fails, I think we can all start pointing fingers.'

To the person who just kicked you in the nuts 3 times...
"OK, but if you kick me in the nuts ONE MORE TIME, there'll be hell to pay!"

6 points
6
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:26 am

LMM%'inAO...

I don't want to even imagine getting kicked in the nuts once, let alone 3 times! (Yet, here we are...) SMH

0 points
2
2
J-Rome's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:25 pm

I have to believe the front office was faced with a tough decision when Rodgers was MVP. IT was wrong because it didn't turn out. If they moved on and Love was a flop they're screwed in a different way. They went with the known quality one too many years and got burned last year. Personally I would have liked to have seen them move on sooner, but I understand why they made the decisions they did. If they hold on one more year after what we all saw last year, that I can't understand. If you count not making the superbowl after making the playoffs getting kicked in the nuts, we've been kicked more than 3 times.

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:29 pm

Sell high. Sadly, that never happened. Somehow, the Packers still appear to have a chance to unburden this team's cap problems, and realize draft capital in return.

1 points
2
1
JustBob's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:02 am

I inherited being a Packers fan from my parents in the 70's. They were still high on the glory years of the 60's so we lived for Packer Sundays. It was tough in the 70's and 80's. The few times we beat the Bears was the best we could hope for. No Packer fans thought of Superbowls back then. So the last 30 years have been fantastic. Sure there's always going to be decisions to complain about. And nobody is satisfied with losing. But it's so much better than most of the teams out there. Would you rather be a fan of the Lions or Browns, or even the Bears? They're had very little to cheer for in the last 30 years. We'll always want more, but we also need to be pretty thankful for the success we've enjoyed.

2 points
4
2
BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:05 am

Murphy, TT, & MM cost us at least two Super Bowls...

Murphy, Gutey, and MaLF cost us at least one Super Bowl and maybe two...

Poor Coaching and poor coaching decisions are squarely on the FO too IMO. They're ultimately responsible for the Coaches they hire.

The NFL is tough enough, it's even tougher when you're stupid, and make stupid in-game decisions.

6 points
11
5
PackyCheese500's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:27 am

Brandon Bostick is also responsible for at least one Super Bowl

0 points
1
1
dobber's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:21 am

Pick your poison...

...was it Burnett for sliding with the INT when Peppers told him to get down?
...was it ARod for failing to convert a first down on the subsequent drive?
...was it HHCD for standing around and letting that lob 2-pt conversion get caught?
...was it the OL for failing to convert short yardage on the goal line twice in the first half?
...or was it Bostic because he happened to make the last mistake?

6 points
6
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:29 am

Or was it TT for having Bostic on the roster in the first place?

You get what you pay for right?

2 points
4
2
jannes bjornson's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:57 am

Arrow hits bullseye...

1 points
3
2
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:44 am

TT did not put him on the “hands” team.

-1 points
0
1
greengold's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:51 am

But, TT did fail to listen to his own scout and Senior Personnel Executive, Alonzo Highsmith, the day the Packers drafted Bostick, screaming, "NO! NO! NO! Don't take him! He'll kill us!"

-3 points
1
4
13TimeChamps's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:36 pm

The Packers didn't "draft" Bostick. But fun story though.

8 points
8
0
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:13 pm

They could have done everything right and still lost. If people can't admit that, they're just not seeing the big picture. Maybe control freaks, trying to control factors that are by their very nature not subject to control.

Picking low in the draft for basically 2 decades, and still remaining a contending team is better than the rest of the NFL by far.

-2 points
0
2
CheeseAndBourbon's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:11 am

This is silly, of course it’s fair to criticize the front offices (plural). As if Gute can’t be questioned for picking a backup QB in the first round after we were one win away from the SB the prior season, because Thompson won the SB 10 years earlier… It’s almost a completely different front office! Why give Murphy and Gute credit for what was accomplished in the Harlan/Wolf or Thompson eras?

1 points
5
4
LambeauPlain's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:20 am

The article is based on the last 31 years. That's convenient. Why not write about the FO performance over the last 53 years? Include the 70's and 80's in your analysis. What would the conclusions be?

My analysis on the FO is focused on the performance of Acting GM over the last 5 years...Mark Murphy.

Was Ron Wolf a better GM than Murphy? How about TT?

MLF, Ball and Gutey all get to mess in each other's sandbox with Murphy micromanaging their jobs, making weak decisions while playing Jerry Jones with monopoly money.

Management by Committee fosters a bureaucratic culture, can kicking, feet of clay, and lack of a core strategic vision/direction and bold tactics to implement it.

Murphy seems intent to linger as Acting GM for another 2 years. The problems in the football operation will continue to pile up until he get the gold watch.

6 points
8
2
HarryHodag's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:28 am

Careful Bruce. Talking facts and common sense to a certain element of the Packers fan base will lead you to the wrath of the 'fire everybody' crowd.

If the Packers don't win every game 50-0, throwing for 800 yards and running for 400 then it's time, to them, to 'fire everybody'. You even fire the maintenance people because they didn't clean the floors well enough. You fire the entire board of directors, all the managers. Then you hire the legion of folks willing to uproot their families and move to a city that is smaller than some of the neighborhoods in larger cities. A city of a good climate only 5 months of the year. A city with a minimal minority presence. And if they don't win by 50-0 etc. the next year you fire everybody again, and again, and again.

The fire everybody crowd think the Packers operate in a vacuum and can do anything they want any time they want without consequence. The Packers, to them, have an unlimited amount of cap space and should be able to sign any free agent any time they want and if they don't do so, then fire the GM immediately.
Hall of Fame quarterbacks are a given destiny to them, and if the team can't find one on a quarterback tree then everyone should be fired immediately.
I think you get the idea, Bruce. It's a good idea to point out the facts as you did, but it will likely fall on deaf ears. It's easier to simply yell 'fire everybody', for some.

-3 points
5
8
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:11 am

Harry,, you're fired as a poster at CHTV...

;-)

2 points
2
0
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:39 pm

Yes, even after wins, the critics come out about everything that went wrong. I'd like to see one of those alternate universe movies where a disgruntled Packer fan suddenly finds they can only cheer for the Bears, or the Lions, or the Vikings, or the Panthers, or almost any other franchise save a handful. And then experience that, and end up grateful for being a fan of a winning franchise.

-3 points
0
3
Rebelgb's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:49 am

I do agree with most of your points. However, I also agree with those who say we DO NEED a change at the top. Mark Murphy should have never changed the hierarchy structure and put his nose into football operations. Wolf and Thompson were successful with the structure we had.

Murphy has to go and the structure has to change back.

11 points
11
0
Heyward's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:58 am

This post makes no sense. You can be grateful for all the regular season success and still be critical of the front office. Not getting to the Super Bowl since 2010 is extremely disappointing. There are many reasons, but mediocre drafting and a lack of aggressiveness are two big reasons. The last two Super Bowl winners traded for players during the season. Meanwhile, Gutekunst holds onto draft picks like he can't bear the possibility of not drafting more Josh Jacksons, Jace Sternbergers, Oren Burks, Amari Rodgers, etc.

2 points
3
1
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:13 am

he holds onto the draft picks like they are absolute gold until draft day, then he squanders them to move around on the board to draft 3rd round busts...

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:08 pm

""...........Not getting to the Super Bowl since 2010 is extremely disappointing."""

Yup. Especially when it happens with different players, different coaches, different GMs, pretty much different everything. What could the constant be?

IMO, we could have/should have gone in 2014 and 2020. Gute/LaFleur came in 2018/2019 to replace Thompson/McCarthy.

0 points
0
0
Dragon5's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:09 am

As fans, sure we can show gratitude from the entertainment perspective for participating in a winning franchise the last 3 decades, but from the business side, the scarcity of these opportunities must be measured. Everyone is graded, everyone is accountable. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Bruce you are correct that execution on the field has had moments of profound impact on the end goal--Lombardi trophies. Trying to dilute fingerpointing of past failures in a positive light, however, is like a whore defending her pimp, i.e. the oppressed defend their oppressor. It's a loser's mentality, and one I'm certainly not willing to accept or compromise. I side with the voice of a beloved ghost "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." If you take comfort in trying to remember the almosts and the have nots, more power to you.

3 points
3
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:15 am

you must be in your enemy year or perhaps a bird in a reptile year...

...so we have descended to the point where the GB FO is a pimp and poor Bruce is a whore? I do like the analogy though...

3 points
3
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:23 am

All I know is it's Friday and my @$$ be draggon. :)

1 points
3
2
arthurl's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:25 am

There have been and still are some organizational issues with this team. I feel mostly it’s in the coaching. If not for the stellar play of Rodgers and a few others, this is a mediocre organization. Mike McCarthy kept Capers way past his self life and that cost this team a couple trips. You can add poor special teams coaching for over a decade until this past season. Then they hire MLF and he proceeds to do the same poor decision making in these two vital areas. Rodgers, DD, Jordy, Devante, Jones, etc, these dudes held down the O. I would say from where they have been drafting over the past twenty plus years, the talent is there. The coaching is below average and cost this team multiple trips to the SB.

6 points
6
0
Vachio's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:27 am

As others have mentioned, criticism of the current FO is perfectly legitimate as they had no role in acquiring either HOF QB that we've been lucky to have over the last 30+ years. If Love turns out to be our 3rd straight first ballot HOF QB, then we can talk.

That being said, your point about the margin of victory being razor this is 100% accurate. Injuries, mistakes, your QB ignoring any WR not wearing #17 no matter how wide open...all those things can knock you out of the playoffs in an instant and have very little to do with FO. It's a team sport and that includes the FO.

3 points
3
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:28 am

Questioning and analyzing are healthy and shouldn't be ignored.

I will tune into the games on the radio or tv but will not invest in the overall cost and time to attend a game at Lambeau in their current state of "who really is in charge?"

I am just a fan and not as knowledgeable as many here. What I would like to see is:

*A structure where Gute can do the GM role. I feel he knows what he is doing and would appreciate him getting the opportunity to be the GM

*Wish #12 well in retirement or on another team. His agenda and lack of being all in has rubbed me for several years now. Overtime, give him all the accolades he deserves. Right now, it is best to move on..I hope that happens.

*See if Coach LaF can lead this team moving forward. I want to see if he can motivate and lead. Hard to lead when the starting QB is ripping you a new one during the game and occasionally on the PM show. (Edit: this isn't #12's fault...Coach LaF should have stopped it right then and there). I want to see if he can draw up plays for #10 and if he can make adjustments in the second half of games.

In the future, please don't hand the keys over to one player, no matter how good they are or once were. I know this is extremely difficult because you are not able to foretell the future, please all fans and have to keep an eye on the P/L sheet. (I would not want your job, extremely difficult on good days I presume). Many, many moving parts that are out of one's control. You are in the seat for a reason... you got this! *easy for me to say right?

We all want the Pack to succeed...👍

1 points
2
1
dobber's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:30 am

I don't give a shucky-darn about what happened during the Wolf or TT eras anymore. That's such ancient history that dragging that forward is unproductive.

The issue is the current status of the team, the current hierarchy, and what appears to be periodic wrestling matches over what the future of the organization looks like. It's clear as hell that the 2020 draft (Love, Dillon, Deguara...) was intended to establish a timeline for a turnover in personnel and a shift in philosophy. We all know that Murphy is in the draft war room with LaF and BG, so it's not as if that pick was made in an organizational vacuum.

Then--Covid hit. People don't like to talk about Covid because it's politically and socially polarizing, but it did the one thing that really effed up the Packers' roster management: it shrunk the cap, and not by a little. It effed up a lot of teams' plans. They had a choice: jettison contracts to meet the cap and then try to rebuild, or extend around a team that just won 13 games and try to win it all. They came close to winning it. So then they had to make that decision again...who made it? I don't know that we'll ever really find out, but it feels like those decisions were ultimately made by different people. Shifting plans, shifting caps, a decentralized-centralized power structure that makes one guy GM most of the time, and other guys GMs the rest of the time.

So to say that criticizing the front office makes no sense, and then try to support it by trotting out ancient history and talking about QBs in their primes years ago is disingenuous.

11 points
11
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:19 am

OK Dobby, you get a PB cookie just for "Shucky-Darn".

1 points
1
0
marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:29 pm

So when people say, "Favre and Rodgers for 31 years and we have only 2 superbowls," and they use this as evidence that we need a change in the current management, will you call those people disingenuous, too? Seems like both side are "trotting out ancient history," right?

I agree that everyone is subject to criticism. Of course I do. No one on the planet actually denies that. It's the long term/short term thing that people can't get their heads around. But overall - long term - the record is indisputable. The Packers have been a fabulously managed organization in the long term.

I don't know if the most recent events will turn out well. Frankly, neither do you, and neither does anyone else. But the rate of success that we have seen during the time that current management has been around has been good.

0 points
0
0
CheeseAndBourbon's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:33 am

Don’t criticize Murphy/Gute because Thompson put together the best team 12 years ago and Harlan/Wolf put together the best team 26 years ago. Also, feel free to criticize Rodgers even though he was the best player in the league 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 8 years ago, and 11 years ago. Got it.

3 points
4
1
Leatherhead's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:02 am

We're criticizing the front office during one of the most successful periods in team history.

Going back over 50 years to the merger, what other 4 year time periods have been better than the last 4?

Obviously, you go back to when Favre was winning all those MVPs and we won a Super Bowl. And McCarthy/Rodgers had a good stretch of making the playoffs (yeah, Murphy was here for that, too).
Now, in a 4 year period, we won 3 division titles and made it to the Championship game twice. But people are complaining because they feel it should be better.

I see the division's best defense returning, plus Stokes and Gary. I see a QB who has been selected and prepared like no other QB in NFL history. I see bonus draft picks for the trade of our previous QB. I see guys like Watson and Jones and Dillon and Doubs and Tonyan, and think about adding a premium player or two to that group.

When I start reading people....who've long been favorite reads.....and they're just off on another anti-speech (anti-Murphy , anti-Gute, anti-LaFleur, anti-Rodgers), I usually just skip to the next post. Now, if the Packers crash and burn this year, they can say "Aha!! We were right". But the converse is also true, and if the Packers go out and have a good season, they need to be ready for the crow that'll be on their plates.

-4 points
2
6
pantz_bURp's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:15 am

I don't take great joy in being right or wrong LH.

I will gladly eat Crow. I am built for this since I like to drink with big Swallows anyways. ;)

Okay back to making enough for 10 of those Ramen noodles packets (low in NA of course). See ya, byeeeee.....

✌️

0 points
0
0
marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:57 am

Dude, how do you expect to be assimilated into the collective if you keep talking like this?

Coldworld will be along shortly to install your new cranial processor node, a pitchfork where your left hand used to be, and various other prosthetic devices. I suggest you welcome him. Resistance is futile.

-5 points
0
5
Coldworld's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:47 pm

None of that. Room 101 is much more rewarding.

0 points
1
1
aaronqb's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:09 am

I think we need to be more specific than "front office". Wolf and Thompson were great GMs IMO. Murphy should have probably gotten Thompson out of the job when it was apparent he was not healthy mentally.

Gutekunst is a big problem.

His drafting has been subpar and this has caused the Packers to dip into free agency too aggressively. Now the Packers are among the teams with the least amount of cap space. He handled the Aaron Rodgers situation poorly. As Ron Wolf used the say ... better to get rid of them a year early rather than a year late. Last year he held all the cards with Rodgers and could have traded him for a king's ransom (e.g. trading him to Denver). Now, Rodgers holds all the cards. IMO, the Packers Super Bowl window is closed and the sooner they start to build a new team the better. Rodgers continuation as the Packer QB will delay these efforts.

1 points
3
2
701Packer's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:21 am

"You can't blame the front office for 2014, either. Go back and look at how they lost that game and tell me it was a failure of the front office."

I mean, the FO did choose to keep Bostick on the roster...

2 points
2
0
NorCalPacker685's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:22 am

I disagree... You can blame the front office for not being aggressive enough to make that one in-season move that could have swung our luck from good to bad. Yes, the teams they put together were good for the most part, but they never addressed any glaring weaknesses in season. TT always wanted to carry money over to the next season. I can't say the same for Gute, but glaring problem with the FO over the years was being too concerned with the future at the expense of the right now.

1 points
2
1
Pack1961's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:24 am

You are happy with mediocrity. Yes, we have had great QB play and Wolf should get full credit for trading for Fabre. Rodgers was a gift to the Packers and yea, they were smart enough to take the #1 pick in the draft at #24, but no piece of brilliance in that move.

The problem is the mgmt stops short of getting the 1-2 players needed to win it all. Did anyone in the entire league think Sammy Watkins could still play last year except Gutey?

It’s the financial irresponsibility as well. Drafting Love when Rodgers still had a big contract made no sense. Drafting Dillon when you could sign Jamal Williams for $3m made no sense. The 2 best players on the Packers team when Love and Dillon were drafted, was our QB and RB position with Rodgers and Jones. Not saying Love and Dillon aren’t good players, but is that what the Packers needed most at that time. I could name a bunch of good players we passed on over the last few years but that is hindsight. What is not hindsight is that we haven’t one 3rd pick really contribute anything out of the last 5 drafts, never mind wasting a lot of draft capital to trade up for Love, Savage, and Amari Rodgers.

Don’t expect the front office to be perfect, but they have not been good the last 9-10 years for sure. Most rating services had this last years draft as a C or C - and it’s the best draft we have had in 5 years.

You are letting HOF QB play cover up massive shortfalls in the front office.

1 points
5
4
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 24, 2023 at 11:48 am

Fully agree! I'm so tired of whiny Packer fans using hindsight to blame the front office for decisions that didn't work out as well as they'd hoped. Every team has holes on the roster; the salary cap makes that pretty much a certainty. They want a young HC to have zero flaws, even after 3 straight 13-win seasons. I remember McCarthy growing as a young coach, and then winning a title. Sure hope to see LaFleur do the same!

To constantly complain about what the coaches, players and front office have NOT done right (in your eyes) detracts from decades of exciting, winning football. GB fans are SO MUCH BETTER off than the fans of almost every other franchise. Maybe NE fans until recently had a better football-watching life. And Chiefs fans the last few years have a lot to smile about, but that was after decades of not winning.

So happy to have watched Bart as a little kid, Brett as an adult and Aarons for the last many years. If this is his last year, I'll cheer him on whether it is in retirement or another uniform. Thanks to the front office, coaches and players for all this entertainment.

-3 points
2
5
marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:11 pm

... except that the "whiny Packer fans" are certainly NOT using hindsight in the big picture. They see a lot of trees and no forest. If they were seeing hindsight more clearly, they would see that even though a lot of individual transactions or draft picks didn't work out, overall the Packers have almost always been better than almost everyone else in almost every year for the past three decades, and they are right up near the top when it comes to winning everything.

But damn, Gutey sucks!

-3 points
2
5
Ima Payne's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:31 pm

A team must have a good QB to make the super bowl. Especially to win one but that QB has to have a supporting casts as well. The packers have lacked the supporting casts due to lack of funds. This is a small market team without an owner with deep pockets.
Packers Org has had to structure contracts diferrent then everybody else to appease the ownership base. This has eliminated a lot of trips to the sb for that reason. In addition they got some terrible cheap coaches like Capers, Barry, Pettine, not exactly worldly people known for their defensive prowness.
Cheap ball doesnt work all that well when trying to get to the big stage.

-3 points
0
3
marpag1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 12:43 pm

Pretty much everything you said is utter nonsense.

4 points
4
0
Alberta_Packer's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:00 pm

Granting the FO absolution - for all their short-sightedness and missteps of the last 2-3 years - is contrary to best management practices. Not only is criticism / oversight of the FO due but also necessary as there needs be checks and balances at every level of any organization. Otherwise you have an autocracy - as we have witnessed with Mark Murphy.

Also relating Packers history to the present is like the wake of a boat. It is nothing more than the trail that is left behind - with no power in the present.

I understand that there may be political and self-preservation reasons for CHTV not be critical of Packers management (whom I suspect are rather thin-skinned). However, how about an open topic / forum- "How Can The Packers Move Forward?" - thus placing the onus on us, the subscribers, to create the content. If so, my only request is that our "offering" be forwarded to the organization's President, Executive Committee and Board of Directors.

4 points
6
2
Swisch's picture

February 24, 2023 at 01:15 pm

When I started hanging out at CHTV, not all that long ago, perhaps in 2019, I was quite happy with the Packers as a team of consistent excellence that was almost every season a contender for the Super Bowl.
Part of that fan happiness was being a huge fan of Aaron Rodgers as a premier quarterback and seemingly good guy.
Yes, after the Super Bowl win to cap off the 2010 season, the Packers fell short again and again; but I was in agreement with the outlook that it's so difficult to beat every other team in the NFL for a title, we should appreciate being part of the mix of teams that at least gave it a good run to the top year after year. Not that many other teams could match such sustained success.
Despite the disappointment of ending each season with a loss in the playoffs, there were a lot of good times along the way.
Those were good days for me as a Packers fan.
***
Even when the Packers were crushed in the NFC Championship Game against the 49ers after the 2019 season, I was for the most part pleased that the team had turned things around so quickly from a dreary record of 6-9-1 to an impressive 13-3, plus a playoff win against the Seahawks.
I thought the Packers in their first season under Matt LaFleur were ahead of schedule, and looked forward enthusiastically to the future of the Pack being back.
Something happened along the way, though, that upset my sense of well-being with the Packers -- and it emanated from Rodgers, or at least my changing perception of him.
There were legitimate questions about whether he was truly running the offense of his head coach, or going off on his own way too often -- for example in the loss to the Bucs in the next NFC Championship Game, when late in the game it was first-and-goal from the 8-yard-line, and Rodgers threw three straight incompletions that seemed to be unimaginative, forced attempts to Davante Adams.
Then there came the mysterious holdout of Rodgers in the offseason when we didn't really know why he was seemingly so upset with team management. While Packers fans suffered severely from COVID and its restrictions, Rodgers was apparently aloof, or at least remote, hosting Jeopardy and vacationing with a movie star girlfriend in Hawaii.
Finally, our missing QB returned on the eve of training camp, yet without a satisfying explanation for threatening to ruin the 2021 season before it even started.
Instead, he trashed the front office at a press conference as cold and heartless to its players, albeit without much, if any, compelling evidence. It seems an excuse for his own selfishness.
Instead of being remorseful for holding teammates and fans hostage for months, Rodgers was seemingly emboldened to interfere in personnel and coaching decisions -- while being enabled to do so in a shameless act of groveling by those in higher positions of right order for the organization.
The apparent domineering behavior of arrogant Rodgers was sickening to behold, and seemed to be a sad ceding of dignity by those who went along with it.
The good name of the Packers built up with so much effort over a century has been tarnished, and still to this day Rodgers is allowed to jerk around the team with his inscrutable whims.
***
Not surprisingly, this failure of character in our quarterback has meant failure on the field in the biggest moments.
As I've written, the self-centered Rodgers is the fault line around which the team cracks and crumbles under pressure, causing the most heartbreaking disasters to end our seasons.
It's not just losing, but the agonizing feeling of not reaching the potential of that particular season, of having an opportunity for championship glory squandered by the egotism of our quarterback living in his own delusional world, and doing his own thing to the detriment of all who care about the team.
It makes me wonder how far back it goes that the wayward Rodgers has been undermining the Packers with his exasperating attitude of supposed superiority, and if the declining years of the McCarthy Era were largely due to him becoming increasingly uncoachable and disagreeable.
***
It seems that somewhere along the way Rodgers started considering himself above the team, and I wonder how much that has caused the Packers to finish seasons below their potential.
Even winning a Super Bowl with this corrupted version of Rodgers at quarterback would not be satisfying to me.
The cost of pandering to him is too high. Our dignity is too important.
I care about the character of the Packers as well as the performance on the field; paradoxically, the performance on the field, it seems to me, has a lot to do with character.
***
P.S. I may be more or less wrong about much of this, perhaps way wrong. It's hard to discern the inner workings of the Packers, but I've sincerely tried to do the best I can to gather and assess and present the evidence (in this and other comments).
I'm glad for other fans to provide any correction and context to my evaluation of Rodgers as pushing us around -- perhaps helping me to understand why we shouldn't, in effect, run this guy out of town.

3 points
4
1
LeotisHarris's picture

February 24, 2023 at 02:45 pm

My empathetic side used to feel badly for people who seemed incapable of enjoying sporting events and invented takes to ruin the fun of the games. My passion for the reality TV show the NFL currently offers has greatly diminished over the last decade. I'd like to get back to the place where I looked forward to watching the Packers, enjoyed watching the game, and looked forward to the next game. It would also be great if I saw a group of men behaving like, you know, a team.

Football is a great game. When a well-coached team plays for each other, it's a beautiful thing to witness. This product on the field now, and how it is marketed continues to get further away from what I enjoy. I'd like to watch a god damn football game!

8 points
8
0
Duneslick's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:42 pm

If they dont trade rodgers and keep him they are totally inept and it will put them 2 or more years longer to rebuild from the Cap hell they are in and to build a contender

3 points
4
1
SinceLombardi's picture

February 24, 2023 at 03:50 pm

It’s not nonsense. The front office has used multiple high draft picks on this defense and it’s no better than it’s been for years. So they tried in vain to draft a championship caliber defense, which is to say they failed. It should be noted they have the final say on coaches and coordinators too. Pettine and Barry are failures. MLF, may join them soon without an MVP QB.

6 points
6
0
PackAttack4155's picture

February 24, 2023 at 04:03 pm

Every Packer fan is aware of the last three decades of success. Should everyone preface their comments on the current aspects of the team, positive or negative, with appreciation of what's happened in the past? We can be appreciative of the past, while remaining objectively critical of where the team is now.

7 points
7
0
Arock's picture

February 24, 2023 at 06:37 pm

FO apologists are rampant these days. Idk if it's some sort of need to respect authority or fear of not being seen as a true Packer fan if you question the organization's results/character/motivation. Either way, it's prolific. The past few decades have been disappointing. Yes, it's hard to win SBs. Yes, miniscule nothings change outcomes. But it's not the little things that have resulted in failure. It's big things like stubbornly sticking to draft and develop to the exclusion of premier, A-list, FA help, post 2011 CBA. It's the penchant to overvalue draft capital. It's the continued overvaluing of assets purchased with said draft capital and corresponding undervaluing of other team's draft assets because they weren't homegrown.

Any decision can seem right in the moment - such as trading up for a QB when your current one seems to be declining - but just because a bad decision seems like the right one at the time, doesn't mean it was the right decision. And it doesn't mean that the decision makers shouldn't be held accountable for their decisions. And it's not those easily-explained-away-poor-decisions that are the issue. They just compound it. It's that the FO failed to adapt their strategies and philosophy enough to provide the type of help Rodgers (specifically) needed. Gutekunst has been more aggressive, but he still drinks from the cup TT poured.

And honestly, how much of a leg-up have the FOs had compared to their peers? 2 HoF QBs back-to-back!? One, arguably the greatest talent at QB the league has ever seen? It's not wrong to be mad at only 2 SBs over 30 years, and more so, only 1 with Rodgers at the helm. These FO apologists have got to stop gaslighting us. This mantra of "I'm a Packer fan first" is insidious. It's just code for siding with management over the players. And blaming execution or coaching over poor team-building. We have a right to criticize the FO. And it makes perfect sense.

0 points
2
2
GeorgeRipley's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:16 pm

Also, I frequently experience a sense of meaninglessness. I didn't even know what depression was until lately. Of course, I experienced mood swings, but they were brief. Yet when this condition worsened, I made the decision to take therapy https://us.calmerry.com/video-chat-therapy/ It appears that I am experiencing increased anxiety, which, if left untreated, has the potential to develop into a severe depression.

-1 points
0
1
MooPack's picture

February 24, 2023 at 07:37 pm

Too much focus has been put on what the FO has put on the field with players. IMO, not enough focus has been put on the coaches that have been hired. Fear has run rampant in the coaching ranks for years. Fear of making a mistake. It's permeated on both sides of the ball, but none more so than the defense. Fear of the big play against them resulting in schemes that try to minimize it, which may work during the regular season, but not come playoff time when intensity increases and other teams will do whatever it takes to overcome adversity, the Packers don't adjust. Fear trickles down. On offense, and during the later Rodgers years, that fear was exasperated by a QB that is completely consumed by the fear of a turnover. Overcoming adversity starts with coaching and ends with players. They do what they are taught. You want to scream at the front office for not getting the players? Start with the coaches that were hired.

-1 points
0
1
MooPack's picture

February 24, 2023 at 08:29 pm

Case in point to my previous post:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/24/matt-lafleur-packers-co...

LaFleur's staff is skipping the combine. Gutekunst's staff will be there. You and they can make all the excuses in the world you want, but this goes directly to the coaching staff less interested in face-to-face interaction with players they will likely be coaching and developing to make this team better. There is a disconnect here that cannot be dismissed.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

February 25, 2023 at 08:44 am

Actually that is quite staggering. The excuse being that they can watch film later but need to be in a group much more for the week if the combine? Really? Perhaps an insight into some of the reasons for his struggles with personnel generally.

0 points
1
1
stockholder's picture

February 25, 2023 at 10:07 am

I say MLF seat is hotter than realized.
Gutey now has No distractions.
Forget the coaching staff input.
This is Gutes show.
Expect another bad draft grade.

1 points
1
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 24, 2023 at 09:29 pm

All the focus should be on the current front office, as noted by LambeauPlain and dobber. Gute's been in place for 5 years, and Murphy for about the same time.

C+ for Drafting. Gute has found 3 high quality impact players in four drafts (I am excluding 2022 for this analysis). They are Jaire, Jenkins and Gary. He found some solid players in Dillon, Runyan, MVS, and Stokes (and I am a little leery of putting Stokes on that list). Gute got some meh starters or useful role players in Myers, Deguara, maybe Slaton and Savage. That's not really good enough. Too many positions needed reinforcement through free agency.

B for UDFAs: Gute found Nijman, Ty Lancaster, Barnes, Patrick Taylor, Dafney, Tyler Davis, all of whom came in and soaked up some snaps while playing at various quality levels.

Free Agency: B+. He had a couple that didn't work out due to injury, but Smith, Smith, Amos and Turner were all good signings. So were Wagner, Campbell, Kelly, Tramon Williams, and jarran Reed did as well as expected if not as well as some hoped for. Graham was the big miss. Watkins was a tiny cost miss. Wilkerson was an injury miss.

Pro Personnel: A. Very good in this department, though my definition might be off in some cases. Chandon Sullivan, Veldheer, Rasul Douglas, Hollins, Eric Wilson, Leavitt, Rudy Ford, Keisean Nixon, Tyler Ervin, ILB B.J. Goodson, and some others were good choices.

C- for Coaches. LaFleur is a polarizing subject and folks don't even agree how much of the offense is his versus AR's. I think Zook (yes, he was the ST coach in 2018, Gute's first year), Menenga and Drayton were all dreadful choices. I am not sure how much to blame Ball and Murphy and that organizational structure for that versus LaFleur. Pettine and Barry are unimpressive DCs, if not the abject failures some describe (not that playing 10 yards off on 3rd and 5 doesn't drive me crazy). I don't think hackett had a lot to do with the offense compared to LaFleur. I worry that GB has promoted their assistants to their level of incompetence.

Edited

C for Cap Management. As I have noted and dobber mentioned rightly above, Covid cost GB $36M in cap space at a minimum, and i would argue something closer to $50M. This was not foreseeable when Gute signed Smith x 2, Amos and Turner. The decision to go all-in was in hindsight perhaps wrong, though it led to some playoff games. I have no idea who decided to give that contract to AR, or why in the world it was for $50M AAV and mostly guaranteed. Even that monstrosity could have been handled with $43M give or take 7M more space, at least arguably. The extra space might have been wasted - who can say?

2 points
2
0
splitpea1's picture

February 24, 2023 at 10:06 pm

Good summation. This is why I'm always waffling on Gute. I would also add the Packers were beaten to the punch on a couple occasions as other contenders added quirky, but talented veteran WRs to their roster late in the season to give them an extra weapon come playoff time.

0 points
0
0