Film Review: Kyler Fackrell, Reggie Gilbert, and Vince Biegel

It’s been well established at this point that Clay Matthews isn’t exactly a fan of Green Bay’s depth at outside linebacker. Matthews has gone out of his way twice now to try and get the attention of either his teammates or the front office that things need to improve if Green Bay wants to be successful at rushing the passer.

Whether Matthews was correct in calling out his fellow teammates and even throwing them under the bus is a fair question to ask, but the more important question may be: Is his assessment correct? Is there in fact a dearth of talent at the edge rusher position in Green Bay?

For all of Green Bay’s moves during the offseason, the one position they really failed to address was the outside linebacker position. The only resource they used was a very late 7th round pick on Kendall Donnerson. Suffice it to say that Donnerson will not be expected to play a major role in 2018. Neither will undrafted free agents C.J. Johnson or Naashon Hughes.

This is no knock directly on these three players, in fact I love the value of Donnerson in the 7th round and I think Johnson is a really intriguing player, but all three will be hard pressed to make the team, much less contribute this season.

That leaves the following players to rise up behind Matthews and Perry: Vince Biegel, Reggie Gilbert, Kyler Fackrell and Chris Odom. These four returning players will be expected to push for not only a roster spot but an opportunity to see significant snaps on defense this upcoming season.

While there were some flashes by the aforementioned four players, is it simply too much to expect there to be a major leap by any of them this offseason? While it’s not unheard of for late round or undrafted free agents to be high end pass rushers, it’s certainly rare. If you take a look at the breakdown of edge rushers with 7+ sacks from a season ago, you can see it’s rare to find high quality edge rushers who are drafted after round 2:

  • Round 1: Chandler Jones, Cameron Jordan, Ryan Kerrigan, Joey Bosa, Cameron Heyward, Ziggy Ansah, Julius Peppers, Terrell Suggs, Melvin Ingram, Khalil Mack, Von Miller, Brandon Graham, Adrian Clayborn, Jadeveon Clowney, Clay Matthews, Robert Quinn, Jason Pierre-Paul, Bruce Irvin, Dante Fowler, Derrick Morgan, Brian Orakpo, Nick Perry, T.J. Watt, Myles Garrett
  • Round 2: Calais Campbell, DeMarcus Lawrence, Frank Clark, Preston Smith, Carlos Dunlap
  • Round 3: Yannick Ngakoue, Justin Houston, Olivier Vernon, Danielle Hunter
  • Round 4: Everson Griffen, Carl Lawson
  • Rounds 5-7: Matt Judon
  • Underafted: Mario Addison, Cameron Wake, Michael Bennett

When you add everything up 24 of the top 39 top sack artists from 2017 were drafted in the first round and 29 of 39 were drafted in the first two rounds. In general, if you want an elite pass rusher, you need to draft one early. It’s hard to expect a 26 year old Kyler Fackrell to make a major jump in his 3rd season. Reggie Gilbert looks to finally have a real shot at making the team so maybe he can finally show what he’s capable of and Vince Biegel will have the opportunity to make his second year jump, but it’s rare that these types of players make huge strides and become high end players in the NFL.

It’s also worth noting that one (or more) of these players will almost certainly be starting and will receive significant playing time this season. Nick Perry has yet to play a full 16 game season in his career, and Clay has only stayed healthy a full 16 games twice in the past eight years. Green Bay’s depth will unquestionably be tested.

With all that being said, let’s take a look at Biegel, Fackrell, and Gilbert and what they can each bring to the table should they be called upon.

Reggie Gilbert

The more I watch Reggie Gilbert the more he finds ways to impress me. Gilbert is an interesting player who’s not the most gifted edge rusher in the world but he has a balanced approach to pass rushing and will come at you with a variety of different sets and a fairly substantial move set. I’ve seen him win with effort, power, stunts, closing speed, hand usage, hesitation moves and with bend around the edge. You can see examples of all of these in the clips below. He holds up well at the point of attack and does a pretty nice job of setting the edge.

Gilbert needs to play with better awareness. He didn’t get beat on it much but the way he plays could set him up to be susceptible to counters and reverses due to being over-aggressive. He did show good awareness on the screen pass in the Detroit game so there are positive signs. He also needs to anchor better versus double teams and simply play with more consistency.

There are a remarkable number of flashes for a player who has played so few snaps. This season will be a tremendous opportunity for Gilbert and he’s shown on tape that he may just be up to the task.

Vince Biegel

It’s really hard to judge Vince Biegel from a season ago based on how his season played out. He started the season on the PUP list and wasn’t activated until the November 6th game vs. the Lions. He was then forced to learn on the fly against starting NFL offensive linemen and he just looked overmatched.

This isn’t to knock Biegel; he was behind the 8-ball from the start but he struggled to hold up at the point of attack, was blocked far too easily by tight ends and was on the ground way too often. Biegel ended the season with 16 tackles, no sacks and no turnovers.

While the end of the season was mostly a wash for the Packers, it was great for players like Vince BIegel to get more experience under his belt. The snaps he was able to accumulate late in the season will provide valuable teaching tools for this upcoming season. Coming out of college Biegel showed the length, quickness, and tenacity to contribute at the NFL level.

We will be able to tell quite quickly if he put in the time in the weight room this offseason and is able to learn from his lessons a season ago.

Kyler Fackrell

When you draft a player who is almost in their mid-twenties out of college, the hope is that they won’t have as steep of a learning curve and that they can help you sooner rather than later. The downside is that if they don’t show immediate potential their opportunity for growth is minimal. Unfortunately the latter has been the case for Fackrell.

Fackrell has had a handful of nice plays over the course of the past two years but the successes have been few and far between. On most plays he looks the part of rotational edge rusher. He’s ok at holding up and setting the edge and he struggles to make any real impact in the passing game. Those type of players are ok to hang on to if they show upside and are developing young players.

The truth is with Fackrell what’s on tape in his first two seasons is what should be expected going forward. He’s not a bad player to have on the roster as a 4th or 5th edge rusher who can be an ok backup that can help on special teams, but the upside simply isn’t there.

Green Bay made a mistake last year keeping Fackrell over Gilbert and were lucky to get away with it. This year Green Bay may have a choice again between keeping Fackrell or one of the younger players such as Chris Odom or Kendall Donnerson. Green Bay may be wise to stick with the younger player with a higher ceiling going forward.

After I reviewed all of the tape, I came to two conclusions. The first is that Clay is very correct in his assessment. Sure a couple of these players could take the next step and progress as more than rotational players, but as we look at the roster today it’s four players who weren’t premium draft choices who are largely unproven in their careers thus far.

My second conclusion is that if one of these players is set to make an impact as a true pass rusher, it’s Reggie Gilbert. Gilbert has shown up on tape whenever he’s been given an opportunity. He showed up in preseason two seasons ago, Family Night last year, preseason last year, and finally when he was elevated to the roster he didn’t disappoint either. This isn’t to say that you want any of these four players starting and playing significant playing time but I could legitimately see Gilbert surpassing expectations this season.

There’s always the opportunity that Green Bay brings in a veteran edge rusher late in the offseason. They did do so with Ahmad Brooks last year with mostly mixed results. Green Bay is lucky to have players on the interior of their line who can also collapse the pocket, but if they want to have success off the edge Green Bay absolutely needs one of these young, unproven players to step up big this upcoming year.

 

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Andy is a graduate of UW-Oshkosh and owns & operates the Pack-A-Day Podcast. Andy has taken multiple courses in NFL scouting and is an Editor for Packer Report. Andy grew up in Green Bay and is a lifelong season ticket holder - follow him on Twitter @AndyHermanNFL!

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Comments (30)

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Savage57's picture

May 25, 2018 at 08:11 am

I'm a more informed consumer of Packers football because of Andy Herman.

Clay's comments are a paradox: You have someone delivering pedestrian production for premium pay which limits the team's ability to allocate cap space to the position group and add the depth being cited as lacking.

Given those circumstances, it would seem the one best way to limit the need for depth is more reliable results from the starters.

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Tom Greeley's picture

May 25, 2018 at 10:38 am

I am totally baffled by the negativity, that seems common, toward Matthews. This guy has done about everything asked of him at a very high level. Yes, many hamstring issues, but not something he could do much about.

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Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

May 25, 2018 at 11:19 am

I don't know. Clay's pay level versus production really does limit what we can do with depth. It seems like a fair point, not needlessly negative.

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Ryan Graham's picture

May 25, 2018 at 12:29 pm

Tom Greeley, I understand where you are coming from. When he was asked to make big production from Kevin Greene in 2010 he was there to do it. When he was asked to move inside by Capers he did it with high production. One of my issues with Matthews (putting aside his recent comments about his teammates) is that Matthews has disappeared in recent years. Hamstring issues are tough to deal with especially playing in the edge, and last year he was able to play in 14 of 16 games which is a good sign. On the other hand he played in 62% of defensive snaps. On paper it seems like a good amount for the position but considering his salary he needs to be producing more while hes out there. Hopefully Pettine will put him in position to make plays. It's a "what have you done for me lately" league and lately it hasn't been worth his paycheck. I hope that's set to change otherwise Gute and Pettine might be looking to move on, possibly sooner rather than later.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 25, 2018 at 01:47 pm

You can't usually even buy a pass rushing 3-4 OLB. They almost never come on the market at any price. Strangely enough, teams can buy a pass rushing DE or interior defender in FA. So CM3 taking a pay cut would help the team if used wisely but would be unlikely to help the team improve its pass rushing from the OLB spot.

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HankScorpio's picture

May 26, 2018 at 05:52 am

Beat me to it, TGR. Edge Pass rush help is a rare find. The only ones available in FA usually have very serious question marks and get paid like they don't. That's how Nick Perry got his current deal. He was a FA pass rusher, generally considered 1 of top 3 available in his FA year. The Packers had to badly overpay to retain him. They got the same guy they had...a guy that has more downs than ups and paid top dollar for it.

So yeah, cut Matthews. And then sign another guy like Nick Perry at the same type of deal that Matthews/Perry are getting.

Are they any better off?

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Bure9620's picture

May 25, 2018 at 09:51 pm

Agreed, interesting comments from a player whom is likely playing his last year in GB. Is he trying to sell his performance and production in an effort to spin and sell his value?

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 25, 2018 at 10:11 am

Assuming Nick Perry has his hand in the dirt more I am very interested in how Pettine uses Clay Matthews, Kyler Fackrell, Reggie Gilbert, and Vince Biegel. Given his past defenses he doesn't need 4 of that body type.

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Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

May 25, 2018 at 11:21 am

Agreed, and the potential for more 4-3 looks really shuffles our needs at OLB.

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HankScorpio's picture

May 26, 2018 at 06:01 am

Especially when you consider the base defense is no longer a 7 man front. It is a 6 man front. So with 4 guys on the DL, that means you're playing 2 LBs in most situations.

When I look at the Packers LB group, that goes a long way toward getting the best guys on the field. For me, the LB group is the weakest of the 3 levels of the defense. I think they are fairly good on the DL. And while the DB talent is unproven, I think there is plenty of talent there.

I really do hope if plays out that way.

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Colin_C's picture

May 25, 2018 at 10:24 am

Great breakdown Andrew! I hadn't really paid attention to Gilbert during the games, but wow does he look good. He has a great combo of strength, bend, explosiveness, and technique. No way he doesn't make the 53 out of the gate.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 25, 2018 at 01:52 pm

Well, this has been written about Gilbert in the past. Jersey Al had Gilbert making the team last year. I am hopeful that we have a better and more astute DC and presumably, a GM who listens, as well.

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Minniman's picture

May 25, 2018 at 11:21 pm

As stated in the article, Packers were lucky to be able to stash him in the past, but it may not be the case anymore..... although 2 years on the PS should be enough time to evaluate if someones a 'keeper".

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Rak43's picture

May 26, 2018 at 03:02 am

Not with Capers and TT. Didn't it take them like 3 years to figure out Desmond Bishop was a better option than anyone they had at ILB at the time, and another 3 to figure out Mike Neal was better suited for LB as opposed to DL. and 4 more years to figure out Jarret Bush couldn't track a football at CB and needed to be facing the los as a safety? The fact that Gilbert hasn't seen the field but 2 games in 2 years is just more of the same old bungling in their player evaluations.

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HankScorpio's picture

May 26, 2018 at 06:06 am

They never did figure out that Hyde was a Safety, not a slot CB.

And while I think there were mitigating circumstance, with 20/20 hindsight, it is difficult to defend the decision to let Casey Hayward walk. But they thought he was limited to being a slot CB and couldn't play the outside.

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TKWorldWide's picture

May 26, 2018 at 09:41 am

As long as that step is in the right direction.

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Rak43's picture

May 28, 2018 at 01:15 am

Nor did they go back and look at Casey Heywards rookie tape where he played on the outside and played exceptionally well. They immediately pigeonholed him into the slot the following year where he was not suited so they let him walk in FA. Now he's back outside where he should have been all along and holding opposing QB's to a league low 42QBR last year. Didn't take the Chargers but one camp to recognize his skill set and put him in position to use it.

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Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

May 25, 2018 at 11:17 am

Outstanding article.

I'm actually more hopeful for Biegel, as I feel his Year 1 development was severely limited by surgery. I also think he looks like a much more well-rounded player in space--a more exciting option in blitzing/coverage/run-stuffing. But then, McCarthy praised Gilbert's developing pass coverage skills, so who knows?

I REALLY want Donnerson to make the 53, since we desperately need that athleticism on special teams, and I would be very concerned about exposing him to waivers. Biegel and Gilbert are locks, and I'd like Donnerson as our 5th guy. That leaves Fackrell out. Also, Donnerson has 2 more years on his rookie deal than Fackrell.

Finally, I'll be interested to see how many 4-3 alignments we use, and how that affects the types of OLB backups kept. We're just so deep up front, and it would be a shame not to use more big guys when it's our strongest area.

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Handsback's picture

May 25, 2018 at 11:57 am

I consider Fackman as a guy who needed a lot more NFL strength when he was drafted. Now he's gotten better, but will he make a jump this year? I have no idea, but the coaches seem to think he will make that jump. He is fast and if he can keep the blockers from stoning him in that initial contact....he could be very good.
Gilbert seems to be ready to break-out. I don't know about Biegel. He's almost a rookie with experience except has some strength added to his frame.
I love these articles, and will say this. . . if Wilks plays like he has most of his careeer, than all three of these guys will have a YUGE impact. Too many good down linemen and speed rushers to keep out of the backfield. Oline guys get tired and don't get to tap out and bring in reinforcements. Pettine will make sure even the three shown in this article will be able to make a difference.
At least it's what I think...

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 25, 2018 at 01:57 pm

These articles you've written, Andy, are outstanding. I would note that 8 of the 10 pass rushers you listed as drafted in the 3rd to 7th/undrafted were not OLBs.

I've read articles suggesting that Justin Houston is the lone exception to finding pass-rushing prowess at OLB after about pick 46. I think the cut off was double-digit sacks though.

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HankScorpio's picture

May 26, 2018 at 06:26 am

I remember back when Capers came to town. One of the selling points was that it was easier to find edge pass rush.

That was then, this is now, I guess.

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flackcatcher's picture

May 25, 2018 at 06:49 pm

Good overview Andy. I mention this before, but I believe with IAMGUTE their will be quite a lot of turn over on the bottom third of the roster. With a new DC and GM the bias will be toward the guys signed or drafted rather than current player who were on last years team. Add to that the move toward hybrid/DB and need to free spots on this year roster, there could be fewer LB spots open. Either way both Fackrell and Odom could be early cuts.

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Bure9620's picture

May 25, 2018 at 09:48 pm

Fackrell is not an NFL football player, I hope BG moves on from the TT picks that have not been working the last few years. Gilbert is better than Fackrell, period. I thought he would be more ruthless on the bottom of the roster. If Fackrell is on the 53, that would justify CMIII's recent comments......

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Point-Packer's picture

May 25, 2018 at 11:02 pm

Why it took so long to put Reggie Gilbert out there is a testament to MM's blind stubbornness.

I agree, on draft day Kyler Fackrell was seen as a reach in the 3rd. He's not fast. He's not strong. He has mediocre to poor instincts. He doesn't shine on special teams. Why is he on a pro football team? Oh I know, because the same guy that drafted Richard Rodgers in the 3rd round was at the helm. Ted always like em slow.

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KenEllis's picture

May 26, 2018 at 01:13 pm

If TT was still the GM, there would be no hope at OLB, because he and Dom would make sure that TT's draft pick Fackrell got every opportunity to prove what a smart pick TT made by snagging him in the 3rd round . With Pettine in command, Fackrell has to produce to play.

With Gutey taking over at GM, I expect he Fackrell will either be the last outside linebacker on the roster behind Gilbert, Biegel and whoever else or he will be cut.

I also expect Gutey will make every effort to add a legitimate veteran.

Clay is correct that outside linebacker is a weak, weak position, but unlike in the past with TT/Dom in charge, there is hope that not all is lost.

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Rak43's picture

May 26, 2018 at 02:36 am

Great work as usual Andy, you're the best and that's no bs. Ty, for all the info, maybe folks won't sleep on Gilbert as much now. I've been expecting big things from him since his rookie year, hopefully this is the year he gets his shot and makes it happen. I don't know what people aren't seeing in this kid but he is Quick, with good hands,power, agility,and awareness. It doesn't hurt that Gilbert's 6'3 265 lbs either, which is basically the same size as Perry. He may not be quite as strong as Perry but he's strong enough and his agility and speed are much better than Perry's. Just because Capers and TT didn't call him up until seasons end doesn't mean he's not good. Recall how long it took for them to get Desmond Bishop on the field and all the excuses we as fans heard, but once he played [due to injury I might add] he brought the wood and some toughness to that defense.

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Bearmeat's picture

May 26, 2018 at 12:35 pm

THIS is the issue that many around here (including myself) have been shouting for 2 years.

Let's all agree that UDFA's and Day 3 draft picks are a 1/100 shot to become red chip players and that this is exaggerated even more in the 2nd most prominent position in the NFL (pass rusher).

And. We. Literally. Almost. Have. Nothing. There. Just like last year, and the year before. Although CB was the downfall of the team the past two years (at least on paper), I think we'd all agree that our pass rush was, um, #$#@$@# poor and at least in part caused those passing numbers.

Then let's look at the OLB position as if we weren't diehard fans. What do we all see? We'd be MOCKING that team if they were an opponent. We'd be licking our chops to see ARod just carve that team and it's "improved coverage" up, because we KNOW that there won't be a pass rush!

Let's break it down, shall we?

1. An aging superstar who has not lived up to his contract in 4 years at least. And who gets hurt a lot.

2. An always-hurt red chip player who has only once in his career lived up to his potential - conveniently right before he cashed in with a big 2nd contract.

3. A day 3 pick who had both feet operated on last offseason and who is a completely unknown commodity at this point. Even to Packers coaches.

4. An UDFA who is intriguing, but we've seen this movie many times before. It almost always ends in tears.

5. A 3rd round bust who is now 28.

6. A Free Agent pickup who has HWS, but did not produce at all in his opportunities last year.

7. A 7th round HWS prospect who will not make the team this year.

Folks, this is a red light emergency. The pass rush had BETTER come from the DL and secondary blitzes, because IF everything goes right at OLB (which hardly ever happens), the position will be merely average next year and I'd bet the mortgage that it will be bottom 5. It's sad, because there is REAL potential at literally every other position on the team.

I don't like it, but that's what I see.

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Point-Packer's picture

May 26, 2018 at 01:56 pm

This is pretty much spot on.

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Rak43's picture

May 28, 2018 at 01:24 am

Luckily Pettine's defense is not predicated entirely on forcing turnovers [unlike Capers] and OLB is not relied upon nearly as much as in Capers system. :} Totally different system that stresses different responsibilities at various positions. I would agree if Capers was still coordinating we would be pooched. But I think GB will be ok this year under Pettine with room to upgrade in the future.

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Rak43's picture

May 28, 2018 at 03:00 am

R-E-L-A-X!!!! there is more than one way to skin a cat or play defense. I will say it again that this is not Capers defense and does not need the production from OLB that Dom's defense did. Let's just take a look at the top 2 consensus defenses going into the year which are the Viqueens and Jaguars. Can anyone name all their starting LB's on either team and their backups? The Queens have Eric Kendricks, Anthony Barr, and Ben Gedeon. Their top backups include Eric Wilson, Kentrell Brothers, and Reshard Cliett. Not exactly a list of who's who in the NFL at LB. Now let's look at the Jags. Their starters are Telvin Smith, Blair Brown,and Myles Jack. their top backups are Donald Payne Brooks Ellis,and a familiar name in Lerentee McCray. Another group not exactly beating down the door of dominance. My point being that those 2 top defenses are built around their defensive lines, and secondaries where the Majority of their talent and dominance reside. In Minny they have Everson Griffen, Linval Joseph, Sheldon Richardson, Danielle Hunter, Harrison Smith, Xavier Rhodes, and Trae Waynes. The Majority of their best players in the secondary and defensive line. The Jags are built the same way with Yannick Ngakoue, Calais Cambell, Marcell Dareus, Malik Jackson, Abry Jones, and Taven Bryan holding down the trenches while Jalen Ramsey, A.J. Bouye, D.J Hayden, and Tashaun Gipson, lock up the secondary. The Packers biggest strength on defense is the line and if all the top picks in the secondary step up they too could have a dominant defense sooner rather than later. It appears the new wave is not dominant outside rush, but rather dominant defensive line play with physical press corners on the outside to disrupt timing and frustrate receivers like Minnesota and Jacksonville. Looks to me like the Packers are copying that model. I would not be surprised to see both CM3 and Perry gone by the end of next year for this reason.

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