Final Thoughts Before 3rd Preseason Game & Some Reader Qs
Before the Green Bay Packers play their final preseason game, I share my many thoughts on this roster and answer a few readers' questions at the end.
By Paul_Bretl
The Green Bay Packers are set to take on the Buffalo Bills in their third and final preseason game. But before they do, I have some final thoughts on some players, positional battles, and a few other things that I’d like to highlight beforehand.
Also, at the end, I answer a few questions from some readers who were kind enough to send some questions my way on Twitter.
- When the Packers signed Dennis Kelly, I think many of us assumed that he would be the swing tackle this season. However, missing the last week of practice and potentially two preseason games doesn’t help. While Yosh Nijman had a rough outing against Houston, he was much better against New York and took some snaps at both RT and LT with the 1s on Thursday. Will both Kelly and Nijman make the roster? Or would the Packers choose Nijman over Kelly?
- In an interesting note from Matt LaFleur on Thursday, when discussing the guard competition, he didn’t mention Ben Braden, who played RT all 62 snaps against the Jets. At this point I wouldn’t quite say that there is no room on the roster for Braden, but he will have to impress at tackle.
- If I had to guess right now, I would say that Week 1 in New Orleans, Royce Newman is the RG and Lucas Patrick is the LG.
- I know there are talks, at least among the fan base, that Patrick could be a cut or trade candidate as a way for the Packers to get a draft pick in return or to save about $2 million in cap space, but to me, it's not worth it. Last season was a perfect example of how important OL depth is; despite numerous injuries and movement, this was still one of the best units in the game. So even if Patrick is a backup, with his experience and ability to play both guard and center -- especially with the potential that two rookies start inside -- there is still plenty of value in keeping him around.
- If the Green Bay Packers keep six WRs, I can’t imagine that Malik Taylor wouldn’t be the sixth—even if Equanimeous St. Brown plays on Saturday and performs well. I think St. Brown has missed too much time, and at least up to this point in his career, he hasn’t provided the same special trams contributions that Taylor has.
- We haven’t gotten the official word that Jordan Love is going to suit up, but if he does, look for him to “let that sucker rip,” or at least that was Nathaniel Hackett’s advice after the Houston game. What I’m guessing he means by that is because the Texans played some very vanilla Man Coverage and Tampa-2 defenses the entire game, Love should know exactly where the week parts of those defenses are and confidently attack those areas. Buffalo will likely deploy a more complicated scheme, but I’m sure Hackett still wants to see Love let it fly—as long as he goes through his progressions, of course.
- Another player on the bubble who missed more practice time on Thursday is Tyler Lancaster. As I noted in Monday’s Behind the Numbers series, IDL coach Jerry Montgomery mentioned how similar Lancaster and Jack Heflin’s games were in terms of their style and what they can do. Green Bay also saves some cap space — netting about $600,000 — by choosing Heflin over Lancaster. With how well Heflin has played, Lancaster needs to be able to suit up, and have a good performance, but honestly even that might not be enough.
- Pay attention to the number of snap counts these fringe roster players play. Watching Oren Burks last Saturday was a prime example of this as he was only on the field for 12 total snaps—which told me that he was making this final roster.
- Speaking of players who need a big game, you can put Jace Sternberger into that category. He is suspended the first two games of the season and when that’s up, the Green Bay Packers are going to have a difficult decision to make in what is an already crowded tight end room. As noted by TEs coach Justin Outten, the biggest issue with Sternberger has been consistency.
“It’s more consistently what you’re putting in day in and day out,” said Justin Outten via Sports Illustrated. “With his consistency, it’s kind of been sporadic. Whether it’s still getting used to the playbook or feeling around the line of scrimmage, he’s still having some up-and-down days. With the extra reps that he’s getting, he’s got a handle it a little bit better in a sense of more video and doing the extra things outside. But that’s all fixable. Those things can come along.”
- Can Kurt Benkert play his way onto the 53-man roster as the 3rd QB? Or have the Packers already decided they’re keeping two? For a team that is all-in on the 2021 season, I don’t see them keeping a 3rd QB—hopefully Benkert makes it to the practice squad, however.
- Henry Black has distinguished himself as the 3rd safety on this team and has filled that role often during practice when the team has 6 DBs on the field. I’d like to think Vernon Scott will be on the roster as well, despite missing time recently with an injury—he’s a really good fit in the 2-high safety look of this Joe Barry defense. So if the Packers keep 5 safeties, it’s between Innis Gaines and Christian Uphoff for that final spot, both of whom have flashed on special teams and defense. Since this 5th safety will primarily be a special teams contributor, I’ll point out that Gaines has 32 special teams snaps this preseason while Uphoff has 18, according to PFF.
- The battle for the fourth edge rusher role is in a similar spot. OLB coach Mike Smith told us that it would be special teams play, not defense, that would determine this spot on the team. This is a tough position to get a feel for; Smith has spoken highly of Tipa Galeai and Jon Garvin — although he noted it was special teams play that kept Garvin off the field in 2020 — while newcomer Chauncey Rivers has consistently made plays in practice and has 20 special teams snaps this preseason to the 15 that Galeai and Garvin have.
- I don't believe that the Green Bay Packers will keep a 4th RB, but I've been a big fan of Patrick Taylor. He's a very good fit for this offense as a productive runner, along with his pass-blocking and pass-catching abilities. However, that fumble against New York didn't help his cause.
- A name to watch that hasn’t been discussed much — if at all — is LB Ray Wilborn. He is 8th on the team in special teams snaps and fourth in grade, according to PFF. As of now, if I was making a final roster projection, I wouldn’t have him on it, but I believe it’s closer than what many would think.
- If the Green Bay Packers are going to keep just 4 LBs, Ty Summers and Isaiah McDuffie are likely the front-runners for that final spot—or maybe I’m still underselling Wilborn. We know who Summers is on defense, but he’s been a solid special teams contributor. Meanwhile, McDuffie could be an immediate special teams help as well, but he’s also missed a good chunk of training camp on the NFI list. Or maybe the Packers keep 5 LBs and this is all just a moot point.
- Can we some sort of consistency from JK Scott? That 21-yard punt last week was brutal and I’m not convinced that Scott will be the Packers punter for the entirety of this season.
- To keep 6 CBs or to keep 7? That is the question. We know who the locks are, and I think Kabion Ento is very close to that as well. But what about Isaac Yiadom? He’s certainly had his ups and downs in coverage over his career but he has nearly 500 special teams snaps and has been solid in that phase. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Green Bay keep 7 CBs.
- I know I sound like a broken record, and I promise this is the last time I’ll bring it up — maybe? — but keep a close eye on the special teams unit. As already mentioned above, it’s going to determine many of these final roster spots.
Reader Questions
Adam J. Carlson: Is the defensive line depth a concern? Could you see the Packers adding a vet after cutdowns?
I actually like the overall depth of this unit more than I have in recent years. We know what Kenny Clark can do, while Kingsley Keke has logged several "sacks" in practice since returning--further building the hype for a big Year 3, which IDL coach Jerry Montgomery has acknowledged a few times this offseason.
TJ Slaton gives the Packers a true nose that allows them to move Clark around more, giving him more one-on-one opportunities--and that's always a good thing. Even Dean Lowry has had a strong camp, and I know what you're thinking, "he needs to show it during the regular season" -- and I agree -- but he's noted how the ability to move around in Barry's defense allows the defensive front to find more favorable matchups. This gives me hope that this year can be better for him.
With all that said, I still wouldn't be shocked whatsoever if they decided to add a veteran run-stuffer during the season. As big of a fan as I am of Slaton, he's still a 5th round rookie, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a veteran to lean on.
Zach Goblisch: Who are some notable “on the bubble” players in regard to the 53 man roster? Anyone you might not have on your predicted roster that you could still see getting a spot?
There are quite a few players that fall into this category, including Patrick Taylor, who has to convince LaFleur that the team should keep a fourth RB. Galeai, Garvin, and Rivers at edge; Summers and McDuffie at LB; along with Gaines and Uphoff at safety. Ben Braden, Cole Van Lanen, Yosh Nijman, Dennis Kelly, and Lucas Patrick aren't roster locks either. Add Jack Heflin, Tyler Lancaster, Kurt Benkert, and Isaac Yiadom to this list as well.
I wish I could narrow this down, but despite there only being one preseason game left and roster cutdowns just days away, there is still quite a bit to be determined.
Scott Hagen: Sign MVS ahead of the season?
I, for one, have no problem with the Packers extending Marquez Valdes-Scantling. He's certainly had his ups and downs, but he provides this offense with an element that no one else can.
MVS led the NFL in yards per catch last season, and in what was another devastating NFC Championship Game loss, I think how well he played was forgotten. MVS caught four of his six targets for 115 yards with a touchdown and could have had another big play if he wasn't overthrown.
It's those types of performances on the big stage that can vault a player to new heights--and that's what I think will happen in 2021. By all accounts, MVS has put together a very impressive camp that has caught the attention of reporters as well as Aaron Rodgers. The longer the team waits to sign Valdes-Scantling, his price will only go up.
Now, having said all of that, priority No. 1 is Davante Adams. An extension for Valdes-Scantling should not be attempted until they've exhausted every avenue to keep Adams in Green Bay. Like you all, I know that the Packers will once again be in a salary-cap crunch in 2022, and the team may very well not be able to afford both MVS and Adams while still having to address other positions--so obviously you choose Adams.
So Scott, to answer your question with a very long-winded response, no, the Packers won't extend MVS before the season. But that doesn't mean they won't at some point. Just get Adams done first -- or at least do everything you can -- and then see where things stand financially.
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__________________________
Born and raised in Green Bay, WI and I still call it home. After my family, watching the Packers, sharing my opinions on the team through my writing and interacting with other fans is my greatest passion. You can find me on Twitter at @Paul_Bretl.
Comments (104)
croatpackfan
August 27, 2021 at 07:01 am
Nice overview!
Does Lancester have chance to be on PS, or he is not eligible? Also the same question for Yiadom & Dafney.
If you ask me today, as Packers are at 89 players, they need to take apart with only 20 guys (53+16). Many of them are just JAGS we do not know much of them, or there will be some players available for trade. Who do you think comes to trade option?
EDIT: What do you think about possibility that Packers will keep Molson over Crosby, and Crosby will go for retirement and become ST coach for Packers. That will be some story, wouldn't it?
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 08:06 am
There are several positions on the PS designated for veterans with any amount of league game experience. The Packers also have the opportunity to protect 4-5 PS players on a weekly basis to keep them from getting poached.
croatpackfan
August 27, 2021 at 08:37 am
Thanks dobber.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 10:29 am
**tips hat**
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 10:44 am
10 spots may be used for players with 2 or more accrued seasons and 6 of those may have 4 or more accrued seasons. A season is accrued with 6 or more games on a roster at full pay or on IR on full pay).
Lancaster and Kaufusi would be examples with 4 plus. I haven’t checked, but I think Yiadom may have 2. Daffney only has one and therefore is eligible for any spot just as a rookie would be.
Players can be protected as Dobber says, for the first part of the season, though I’m not sure the Packers used that. The league must be notified of the protected individuals on Tuesday for that week. Perhaps more importantly, players can be moved up to the game day roster twice in the season without being exposed to waivers on return to the PS. That puts a premium on ST capability in players on the PS. You want to be able to use as many to fill ST shortages as you can and save those most likely to fill in on O or D as the next man up.
greengold
August 27, 2021 at 11:20 am
dobs, you... rockstar, you...! Muchos Gracias!
10ve 💚
August 27, 2021 at 08:59 am
I'm asking you today: How many players on the Packers roster?
Hint: One less than 80, one more than 78.
croatpackfan
August 27, 2021 at 09:39 am
you are right, not 20, but 10 players less. My mistake. I'm typing on mobile phone with fat fingers.
GregC
August 27, 2021 at 07:23 am
As bad as J.K. Scott has been, I don't think they are going to switch out Mason Crosby's holder on the verge of the regular season. If that was going to happen, it should've happened by now. Crosby has always been picky about holders, sometimes even publicly, and he's earned the right to be picky. He made all of his field goals last year (though he missed four out of 63 extra points) with J.K. Scott holding and Hunter Bradley snapping the ball. The field goal unit is directly responsible for putting points on the board and is more likely to win or lose games than the punting team is. It's disappointing to have one of the worst punters in the league, but I think we are stuck with him for at least another year.
murf7777
August 27, 2021 at 07:28 am
Odd ending to the Funchess trial. I’m bummed as I felt he brought something we don’t have on this team. It is Taylors for the taking, but I still think ESB has a chance if he gets PT in the final pre-season game and has a big game. ESB missing time isn’t that crucial as it is his 4th year.
Also, a very important game for Heflin vs Lancaster. Being we have a fair amount of pass rushers, I suspect steady Lancaster run stuffing gets the position and Heflin goes to PS.
I really hoping Burks big game vs jets wasn’t an anomaly. We need to get splash plays from our ILB group.
RB - Hill is a lock, if they go 4 Taylor seems to have the upper hand due to his style of play.
I’m worried about starting 2 rookies on the OL. Great for our future that they are so high on them, but what does it tell us about the rest of our OL squad.
In addition to increasing his catch percentage to the mid-60’s, my biggest hope is that MVS perfects one more pass route, which could be equivalent to a good MLB pitcher turning very good by adding an awesome slider to his repertoire. If he does that, watch out he could be a major sleeper in this league. As is, he’s important to the team and should be signed to an extension now. Adams can wait.
Even thou it’s pre-season, I’m hoping for a win tomorrow.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 08:05 am
"I’m worried about starting 2 rookies on the OL."
I'd be more worried about starting a guy who you know is inferior to the guy you sat on the bench.
In this case, it doesn't seem that there's a clear winner, though.
murf7777
August 27, 2021 at 11:30 am
Dobber, I understand your thoughts, but there is the other side to it as well. The mistakes that can be made by rookies who haven't had the experience of playing against top D-coordinators who are good at confusing OL could make a difference of winning a game or two, especially early in the season while they are learning. College to Pro's is a big jump. One rookie might not be so much of an issue, but two who are playing next two each other will probably be another thing. Hopefully, Bak doesn't get put onto the PUP list and it is a moot point.
As I stated, it also concerns me that if a 2nd and 4th rounder are beating out our veterans, how does that bode for of our depth on the OL?
croatpackfan
August 27, 2021 at 08:47 am
"I’m worried about starting 2 rookies on the OL."
Yeah,. I understand your worry, but I have a question. If your rookies are at same level (they obviously are) as some experience guys would you chose experienced guys over rookies despite you knows they will not improve durig season, while you can expect that from rookies?
murf7777
August 27, 2021 at 11:32 am
Good question Croat....maybe its a good strategy to work them into a starting role as the season progresses. Anyways, it's way above my pay grade.
croatpackfan
August 27, 2021 at 01:44 pm
yea, but everybody here talks how the fastest learning curve is by playing true games. Developing on practice field is much slower. With rookies, if they are belongs, they will never ever made the same mistake, while limitation of expirienced player prevent them to avoid same mistakes. So, what you'll do?
Thegravedigger
August 27, 2021 at 03:08 pm
Steady? I don't get why fans think Lancaster is a steady runstuffer. He's below average at best. He's only considered a run "stuffer" because he can't rush the pass. He was okay in 2018. 19 and 20 he was less than okay. Kenny Clark took doubles on and Lancaster and Lowry couldn't beat single teams enough. They are weak inside. Lancaster is a fine depth player, but why not go with the new Blood?
murf7777
August 27, 2021 at 04:39 pm
In 2020, Lancaster was rated as a grade of 71 by PFF for run defense. That is well above average. I realize PFF isn’t the be-all end-all but that is all I have and the eye test. I realize he’s not great but we have no idea what Heflin will bring one live Bullets fly. He may very well be of lesser value than Lancaster. I would go with Lancaster for this year and stay at Heflin on the PS
Coldworld
August 28, 2021 at 08:10 am
Lancaster has struggled at times when they tried to use him as something more. He’s extremely strong but he is the opposite of quick twitch-he is very slow in his initial steps (though actually decent once he gets going), which makes penetration a non starter. When they let him do the one thing he has done well he is actually pretty good at it.
Thegravedigger
August 28, 2021 at 11:04 am
Honestly I think my disdain for Lowry trickles over into Lancaster unfairly perhaps. We will see what happens. I just know if it ain't broke don't fix it. The problem is tho, something's broke in there.
Roadrunner23
August 27, 2021 at 07:30 am
Nice job Paul,
I always enjoy the info and thoughts you put out.
There will be a bunch of back end roster decisions that I believe will be Special Teams based this year more so than most years.
With a new ST coach and hopefully more commitment to improving ST.
It should be a very interesting cut down and I expect a few trades also.
ND
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 08:11 am
I agree: there's going to be some trading to clear out some log jams leading up to the final roster. I suspect we'll be surprised at some of the names that get moved or cut.
The Bills have made it clear that they're going to play at least some of their starters on Saturday--that inlcudes Josh Allen, so that means likely the nearly full #1 offense. That will be a stern test because I don't expect the Packers to respond with their 1s, but it will give some of these guys on the fringes a chance to show they belong v. a SuperBowl caliber cast of characters (Buffalo is my pick to win the AFC this year).
Lphill
August 27, 2021 at 08:00 am
Special teams not looking good , JK Scott is God awful and he stays because he’s a good holder for Crosby?
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 08:04 am
Someone needs to slap this LP because it just keep skipping...
Since'61
August 27, 2021 at 09:33 am
That earns a cookie! Thanks, Since '61
Johnblood27
August 27, 2021 at 08:22 am
deleted
PeteK
August 27, 2021 at 01:50 pm
Great Scott , he's not. I agree with LP questioning JK's inconsistencies, but we're stuck with him for this season.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 08:03 am
"Now, having said all of that, priority No. 1 is Davante Adams. An extension for Valdes-Scantling should not be attempted until they've exhausted every avenue to keep Adams in Green Bay."
I don't necessarily see a connection between the MVS and Adams contracts, and letting Adams' situation hold that whole process hostage would be bad business. If the Packers think MVS is about to break out and--given the lack of WRs under contract going forward--if they can lock him in at a discounted rate v. what he might bring after the season is done (and they'll need to bid for his services) it makes sense to get it done. This is what they did with the Bakhtiari contract about 5 years ago and he turned out to be a bargain. They tried the same thing with Dean Lowry and...not so much...so it's always risky. In the end, if the Packers feel good about what they have with MVS, they need to get it done.
Johnblood27
August 27, 2021 at 08:24 am
I am on the MVS bandwagon and Im playing the trumpet very loudly.
I could see him being a quite good #1 starting next year.
Lock him up, then turn him loose!!!
PeteK
August 27, 2021 at 01:44 pm
I agree, take the gamble on MVS improving and offer Adams a lg 4 yr contract with 3 guaranteed. He deserves to be one of the highest paid WR.
murf7777
August 27, 2021 at 04:43 pm
I don’t think anyone would argue that Adams is worth being paid that amount. The question is whether you want to use that amount of salary Cap dollars on a wide receiver. I would rather use them on the lines, cornerbacks, and quarterback.
Leatherhead
August 27, 2021 at 10:20 pm
I think that if you look at what 30+ year old WRs are doing in the league, it makes little sense to pay millions for one. The most productive, and economical, WRs are under 30 and on their first or second contract.
I think we could draft a replacement and use the money to strengthen other parts of the team.
jont
August 27, 2021 at 08:29 am
I think we're going to see Love out there. He's throwing full strength according to reports, and he still needs all the work he can get.
jeremyjjbrown
August 27, 2021 at 08:31 am
"Now, having said all of that, priority No. 1 is Davante Adams. An extension for Valdes-Scantling should not be attempted until they've exhausted every avenue to keep Adams in Green Bay."
What? Why? Adams is an acceptable cost on a Franchise tag. MVS is probably gone if he gets to free agency. I'd sign him right now if he'll take a good number in exchange for the financial security.
flackcatcher
August 27, 2021 at 12:40 pm
Age is Adams enemy here. Given the Packer's Cap numbers they have to be very careful. They literally have no room to make mistakes. Besides, the Packers do not like to Franchise players either in the Thompson era, or under Gutekunst now. Still, MVS upside is too good not to sign. But with the Cap, they better get it right.
mattgsx
August 27, 2021 at 08:40 am
Love the article, Paul, except I am not sure I agree about Adams. I agree he is probably the best receiver in football right now, but if it's one or the other, I'd rather see the Packers let Adams walk and retain 3-4 strong complementary players like Tonyan, MVS, and Lazard. All of them are above average role players, and I think, especially if Love is starting next year, GB would benefit more from a strong veteran core group vs. trying to force Adams to carry the passing game with a bunch of rookie receivers who will still be learning the offense.
Alberta_Packer
August 27, 2021 at 11:48 am
Yes, 3 for the price of 1. In economic terms this would also represent a better allocation of resources - capital and human. Also, if Rodgers opts out next year - what will Adam's productivity be?
PatrickGB
August 27, 2021 at 08:48 am
This may be an unpopular muse but I wonder if Molson might be a better kicker than Crosby. At least in the long run he may be the better prospect. He sure has the distance and Crosby isn’t getting any younger. I love and appreciate Mason and all he has done so it’s not a slam on him. It’s the one year too early vs the one year too late musing.
Since'61
August 27, 2021 at 09:40 am
PatrickGB, The issue is that the Packers know what Crosby can do in the cold and the wind in Green Bay and that is a critical factor. Molson has been kicking in practice in relatively perfect weather conditions.
I realize that at some point we will need to move on from Crosby but if this is an all in SB season I'd stick with the "money kicker" for hopefully home playoff games where the weather is likely to be a factor. If the Packers move on from Rodgers, Adams and others after this season then maybe that's the time to give a new kicker a try but for now IMO the Packers should remain focused on 2021 and to me that means keeping Crosby who is literally the only ST player that I have any confidence in at this point. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61
mattgsx
August 27, 2021 at 09:41 am
Maybe, but given Mason's legacy with the team I can't imagine GB cutting him this close to the start of the season. Crosby could have also shown something during off-season work that gave GB concerns about an injury, and as we've seen with other older kickers things can go downhill quickly if they get banged up or get even small injuries. It's also possible they just wanted a second kicker since there was another punter and LS at practice, and they liked Molson enough to try to get him on the PS this year as insurance and re-evaluate at the end of the year.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 10:10 am
My understanding is that Crosby has been his same, reliable self for virtually all of camp, so I agree that I don't see him losing that race. It might be that Molson is still on the roster to preserve Crosby's leg.
At this stage, cutting Crosby increases his cap hit. Not by a lot, but it's not a cap-saving move.
mattgsx
August 27, 2021 at 10:27 am
Good point on both. I forgot about his restructure. Its also possible GB plays Molson more this week to dangle him for a last minute trade.
canadapacker
August 27, 2021 at 09:43 am
I just wonder how well Molson has been kicking field goals in practice? He was not that effective in his last year of college. He does boom the kickoffs and that is why we will probably need to replace our punter with a guy who can kick off long as well as hold down the road. But if we keep Molson on the practice squad again - then it would be interesting to see what would happen if Mason starts to slide. Right now he is money. Although last year he had a few concerning missed PAT's and his kickoffs are getting more and more concerning as with his short kickoffs and our poor ST coverage we end up giving the other teams good field position. I wonder if the GB sports reporters get the information on how well Molson is doing. He is really only on the taxi squad in case there is a Covid issue with the field goal crew.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 12:33 pm
The one report that I saw stated that Molson had been more accurate than Crosby.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 01:44 pm
Given the larger PS numbers, would they put Molson on the PS?
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 04:29 pm
Only if he was in their long term plans I would think.
Thegravedigger
August 27, 2021 at 03:19 pm
Yeah. That's mean jack shit. Crosby is the kicker this year idk why anybody's talking about this. He was 100 percent on fgs last year. End of discussion.
croatpackfan
August 27, 2021 at 03:41 pm
Molson was 100% during camp with 50 and 60 yarders, too. It was reported by one Packers reporter, I do not remember who...
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 04:42 pm
It’s possible that they want him for long kicks and kickoffs, but in that case they’d need to put him on the active roster. I just doubt that is likely.
croatpackfan
August 28, 2021 at 02:01 am
I suspect that Packers are looking to the next season, maybe Mason already discussed with them that this would be his last season and that he plans retirement. They found Molson and probably believe he is good enough to be kept as for future plans at the position. He show strong leg and was pretty consistent during camp.
We do not know all the relevant facts.
I doubt that Molson will be on 53 this season and if he will, that would be huge surprise...
Leatherhead
August 27, 2021 at 10:24 pm
Crazy talk. He’s the best FG kicker in Packer History and he made 100% of his kicks last year.
Johnblood27
August 28, 2021 at 08:10 am
if we can't afford to keep a Molson, maybe we could stash away some PBR???
Thegravedigger
August 28, 2021 at 11:08 am
Pbr on the active roster. Icehouse and red dog at least to the practice squad.
Johnblood27
August 29, 2021 at 11:28 am
Management will go with Miller Lite strictly from a financial perspective...
Since'61
August 27, 2021 at 09:49 am
Nice job Paul. My primary concern for this final preseason game is to get through without injuries one more time. If the Bills are going to play their #1s then we should respond with our 2s and get a good look at how they hold up as a group against an opponent's 1s. The second half of this game will be desperation time for bubble players on both squads so IMO any player that the Packers are seriously considering for a final 53 spot should be off the field. Let's not have a key rotational or ST player injured by a player who won't be in the league come Tuesday. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 10:31 am
Nijman actually looked good in the first game against the Texans if you rewatch. He had a bad play, the sack, but a good game overall, as noted by PFF. He played more consistently in the second game. Since there was no preseason action of note last year or, for him, the prior year, that’s all the more impressive.
My take on Braden is different. I think he’s at RT with the twos for a reason. He’s serviceable at guard and at tackle. He’s going to be our in game swing OL and they will likely release Kelly. Nijman and Braden have out played him as back ups.
I agree that it looks like Lucas Patrick and Royce Newman as the starting Guards. To be honest, Runyon hasn’t progressed as expected. I think he will be next man up though, if we have an injury, but not necessarily active if not. Braden may be the swing.
I don’t think anything other than injuries to others saves EQ. He’s never put it all together as a player and has no ST value. Taylor has looked better as a game ready receiver this year than EQ ever has. Winfree too. If his injury had permitted, I think Winfree would be the only threat to Taylor now Funchess is lost. EQ will be on another roster or none in my view. I’m not unhappy. He just never seemed to want it enough to me, despite latent talent. That was a rumor when he was drafted. Taylor and Winfree do. That and ability shown puts both ahead in my book.
I see Hefflin as a bit more than a pure run stuffer and a bit less of one than Lancaster, who is only that. Cutting Lancaster and signing a pure run stuffer makes no sense to me at all. The savings would mostly evaporate. If we sign a vet, that vet needs to be more than a run stuffer as well as a good one to make that rational.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 10:07 am
The machinations on OL this offseason have been more interesting than they have been in years. I think your comments here, CW, sum it up pretty well.
The fact that they've finally started looking at Nijman on the right side argues that they're looking for a role for him that's more than just playing LT...and Braden playing nearly the whole game at RT last week argues that they're looking for a reason to keep him on the roster. If I'm Dennis Kelly, I'm not sleeping well, because the Packers are looking for reasons to not keep him.
MarkinMadison
August 27, 2021 at 10:11 am
Agreed 100%.
Thegravedigger
August 28, 2021 at 11:11 am
I misread your take and thought you said " I'm not sleeping well because the Packers are looking for reasons not to keep him". I was like damn, dobber really likes Dennis Kelly.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 12:50 pm
You beat me to the punch regarding Nijman, CW.
I keep reading "after a rough outing against the Texans...". He had ONE rough play with his man getting by him for the strip sack that led to a shoulder bruise in Love. Otherwise he has been rock solid both preseason games. And even the strip sack, according to Matt, was partially due to Love who took a 9 step drop and was slow in his progression.
Yosh is showing he is deserving to be the #3 tackle. He has really grown into being an NFL T after being a D line player until his freshman season at VA Tech. Great story.
croatpackfan
August 28, 2021 at 02:07 am
I predict 9 OL on 53. Jenkins, Patrick, Meyers, Newman, Turner, Runyan, Nijman, Braden, Van Lanen. The last will go to PS when David will be brought back from PUP. Kelly will be released.
frankthefork
August 27, 2021 at 10:02 am
Great detail Paul, this one sums it all up. Trenches is what cost the Packers the NFCC vs. Tampa. So I lean to 10 on the OL and 6 on the DL. I don't think Heflin, Uphoff, Benkert-(trade bait), Rivers, Ento, Wilborn, Braden, M. Taylor, P. Taylor or Van Lanen will (all) clear waivers and make it back to GB PS- so yeah, these are some really tough decisions to make in an all or nothing year for AR12 and the Pack. It's a good problem to have, but with next years cap hell, Adams, Rodgers, Lowry, Lancaster, Crosby and a few others are just not in the wallet. This is our time GB- bring back a Lombardi!
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 01:01 pm
There you go, Frank. I agree...10 OL, 6 DL. And I would keep 4 RBs.
I would see value in keeping 5 TEs given how much Matt uses 12 and 22 personnel (1 RB/2 TEs & 2 RBs/2 TEs). But if they want to keep M. Taylor (he won't make the PS...too many quality plays on tape), then 6 WRs will probably mean only 4 TEs.
I look forward to seeing Heflin play tomorrow. Lancaster is a plugger but Heflin is a MOVER. His motor and play to the whistle is exemplary. Last week he was around the ball all the time.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 01:35 pm
I don’t see 10 OL worth keeping with all the interchangeability and the drop off in talent. I think Kelly will be released and Van Lanen to the PS, leaning 8 (until Bakh returns or 9 if he’s activated). Van Lanen hasn’t faced anyone of note thus far and I would put him on the PS with Capra. Use the extra spot for an STer.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 03:50 pm
First team: Bahktiari, Jenkins, Myers, Newman, Turner.
Second team: Nijman, Runyan, Patrick, Bradon, Van Lanen.
Last year KC's first team got riddled with injuries, especially late in the season. Their lack of depth on the line doomed their SB chance.
Packers cut any of the second team, they are on another team as a depth upgrade on their 53.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 04:44 pm
Bakh is probably not on the active roster, I assumed that he won’t be. I don’t see Van Lanen not making the PS. That reduces it to 8 until Bakh is activated. It allows us to keep a STer who will play every week instead of Van Lanen who has yet to play against non scrubs, against whom he’s been decent. PS material at this point I think. He was a late 6th rounder without exceptional measurables or tape who will not be active this year based on what I’ve seen.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 04:47 pm
Bakhtiari being on PUP makes the other 9 listed here your keepers (depending on what you want to do with Kelly).
I agree with CW: I think van Lanen makes it to the PS if they decide to cut him.
MarkinMadison
August 27, 2021 at 10:08 am
I know Mr. Silversteen has opined that the arrival of Mr. Cobb has made the WR battle boring, but I beg to differ. Mr. Cobb has missed six or more games 2 out of the last 3 years, and he's not getting any younger. I think the Packers need to keep Taylor and I think Begelton has flashed.
The Packers have really put the bottom of the roster out there to an extent that I've never noticed before. The days of using at least part of pre-season games as tune-ups are over. As "games" these things are ugly to watch. As individual eval network television provides an inadequate viewing experience. I'm longing for the day when there is a platform that allows the viewer to select from a diverse set of camera choices and stick with it.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 12:35 pm
Cobb really changed little in the end. Funchess was lost to injury. Winfree has missed so much time due to injury that he’s likely now behind Taylor.
So, thus far, the order of survivors without Cobb: Adams, MVS, Lazard, Rodgers, Taylor, Winfree and Winfree may be unavailable in reality week one. With Cobb, Taylor is 6th and Winfree on the PS.
So how is Cobb making that boring? Well, Silverstein is an EQ supporter. Sadly for Silverstein, EQ doesn’t make it with or without Cobb. To date, the best receiver omitted in terms of performance on the field isn’t even EQ, it’s Bagelton and he plays STs. A black mark for objectivity for Silverstein. We all get blind spots, but professionals shouldn’t let them get that advanced.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 01:06 pm
Can you imagine if Gutey cut Cobb and kept Taylor and Begelton? Would that be a big story?💁♂️
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 01:38 pm
Especially after Aaron just called him out for excelling in training. It would be the Autumn and Winter of Love then.
splitpea1
August 27, 2021 at 12:34 pm
I hope the Packers look for more veteran help at LB at some point. Better hope Barnes stays healthy and Campbell continues to be durable....let's keep the current depth on special teams as much as possible.
Turophile
August 28, 2021 at 02:46 am
One question I have always wanted answering is who EFFECTIVELY makes most of the final roster choices, when 'The Turk' walks among them.
I know that is Gutekunst, on paper at least, but I suspect he follows LaFleur on most of the head coaches choices (or at the very least they have many conversations about cuts), and Gute makes the call (along with Ball) on a handful of players who have salary cap ramifications (which could either mean top players who impact the cap to the tune of many $ millions per year, or the reverse, backup players who are getting older and costing a little more than a younger cheaper backup).
flackcatcher
August 27, 2021 at 12:54 pm
I've been told that Gutekunst always makes the final call on the roster. While Lafleur as HC is the most important voice on the gameday roster, Gutekunst and his front office team does the roster shaping. But it is always a balancing act between what a team needs now, and shaping a roster for the year and protecting players for the future.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 01:18 pm
I am entirely confident Gutey has the final say on the 53 but Matt, in consultation with his position coaches, shapes the roster and has great say on the final 53....especially how many at each position.
There may be a player or two Gutey and Matt disagree over, and expect Gutey would give Matt every opportunity to convince him to keep who he wants.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 04:48 pm
Gute’s moves seem closely aligned with LaFleur’s wants. That’s as it should be, with the proviso that the GM has final discretion. Gute and LaFleur seem to work very closely. Contrast that with the Ball era where it emerged MM would be told who he was getting even if he did not want them. That’s a recipe for dysfunction.
ImaPayne
August 27, 2021 at 11:24 am
We all know positions are a numbers game for the staff. My guess the staff will come together as soon as the pre season game is over and the what ifs become keepers and losers if you will. By then they will know who stays who goes.
Certainly there are a lot of guys who are on the team period. Its those bubble players who not only compete to make the team but to make the number: if we keep three qb's someone else has to go kind of thing, 5 rcrs vs 6, 3 rbs vs 4?
Good luck to everyone.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 01:25 pm
Benkert would make the PS if cut. If the 54th player is viewed as a player who would likely get taken by another team, he makes the 53...both Taylors come to mind.
I expect only Rodgers and Love on the 53.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 01:43 pm
I think of possible cuts, Malik Taylor is the one we can’t hide of that group, but I do not see us keeping just 5 WRs, especially as M. Taylor plays STs and Cobb and Rodgers are largely interchangeable slots.
Packers0808
August 27, 2021 at 11:24 am
Of players gone from last year team and still with Packers best chances to be gone I would think to be Scott, Sternberger and LS!
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 12:40 pm
Sternberger cannot be on the roster. He goes automatically to the reserve/suspended list. I doubt Scott goes as he is the holder. We could see a punter in the PS I suppose. I can easily see a LS being brought in off waivers, even before from earlier cuts.
Packers0808
August 27, 2021 at 02:48 pm
Sternburger not on roster now or later still doesn't make team!
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 04:54 pm
I’ve said many times I think he won’t baring injuries, but we won’t know till the third week. He’s extra injury cover till then.
Packers0808
August 27, 2021 at 05:37 pm
Not if they announce he is cut.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 11:20 pm
Don’t see any benefit to cutting someone not counting against the roster and reserved/suspended.
croatpackfan
August 28, 2021 at 02:17 am
I agree CW. And I believe Jace will be on the roster as 53 after suspension. They still believe he will progress and will give them the chance one more year, while he is under rookie contract. He will replace 53rd player on the roster - the one who is there just for ST. Maybe Yiadom.
greengold
August 27, 2021 at 12:31 pm
Nice work, Paul. These are always difficult to try to figure out on many levels. Production. Cost. Length of control. I do love putting a proposed 53 man roster together though. I'll just toss mine here:
2021 53 Man Roster
OFFENSE 25
QB (2)
Aaron Rodgers
Jordan Love
RB (3)
Aaron Jones
AJ Dillon
Kylin Hill
WR (7)
Davante Adams
Alan Lazard
MVS
Amari Rodgers
Randall Cobb
Malik Taylor
Reggie Begelton
TE (4)
Mercedes Lewis
Robert Tonyan
Josiah Deguara
Dominique Dafney
OL (9)
David Bakhtiari
Elgton Jenkins
Josh Myers
Jon Runyan
Billy Turner
Royce Newman
Ben Braden
Yosh Nijman
Cole Van Lanen
———
DEFENSE 25
DL (5)
Kenny Clark
TJ Slaton
Kingsley Keke
Dean Lowry
Jack Heflin
ILB (4)
Khrys Barnes
De’Vondre Campbell
Ray Wilborn
Oren Burks
OLB (5)
Za’Darius Smith
Preston Smith
Rashan Gary
Chauncey Rivers
Tipa Galaei
CB (6)
Jaire Alexander
Eric Stokes
Kevin King
Shemar Jean-Charles
Chandon Sullivan
Stephen Denmark
S (5)
Adrian Amos
Darnell Savage
Henry Black
Christian Uphoff
Innes Gaines
——-
SPECIALISTS 3
K Mason Corsby
P JK Scott
LS Hunter Bradley
Thinking they keep Bakhtiari on 53, then place him to IR for 7 more weeks of healing. To me, that seems a smart play, getting the best LT in all of the NFL back on your team to complete the run, knowing he's fully healthy, especially with the longer regular season of 17 games. Once he hits IR, I'd expect Gutekunst to add another NT via FA as an upgrade to Lancaster.
Hoping many of the players not listed are able to rejoin our PS. Too numerous to mention. Notables I'd consider to be a turning around of Oren Burks (hopefully), Summers having reached his ceiling and being let go in favor of Ray Wilborn with the size/speed/coverage to make the difference. Vernon Scott to IR in favor of S Henry Black, who appears nearly interchangeable. Chauncey Rivers making the cut at OLB along with Tipa Galaei, and 4 other surprise additions to the regular season 53:
Reggie Begelton
Christian Uphoff
Innis Gaines
Stephen Denmark
Begelton is not one of those players who will produce much, being the #7 WR, however, he's a very talented possession WR with size, great route running, and hands to finish the job. Begelton is more of an insurance policy for next season, and PS might be too much of a risk with the talent he possesses. He appears to have built a good rapport with both AR and JL as well. Begelton is a regular ST contributor. With only Cobb and Rodgers under contract for 2022 at WR, it will be essential for Gutekunst to insure he's got some more trusted, developed continuity for next season at the position.
Uphoff is a prototypical hybrid S/ILB with incredible speed and range for his size. He also is a solid ST contributor as a gunner with KR experience.
Gaines is always around the ball, a playmaker. He's got size and speed, and I see him having more upside than bottom players at other positions. Gaines also a solid ST performer.
Denmark is the biggest outlier of them all - being so new to the team, 6-2 217 with 4.4 speed. He's big, and he plays big, with speed. Pretty good ball hawk, with all of the physical gifts to play run/pass equally well. He's so new to the Packers, but, I have a feeling Stephen Denmark might be the guy Gutekunst has been trying to find who will be a better option than Kabion Ento at the #6 CB. Do yourself a favor and check out his highlights. WOW. I have zero doubts that Jerry Gray will work wonders with this kid.
Looking at this 53, I'd consider Dafney to be the last on the roster, even though he provides solid ST play and backup for Deguara.
A lot of great comments in here. Much appreciated reading them.
GPG
Packers0808
August 27, 2021 at 02:47 pm
No Rodgers at QB, you already lost your senses!
greengold
August 27, 2021 at 12:32 pm
Ha! Too funny. That's my error. Was trying to figure out months ago where this might go... hilarious. Thanks for the heads up.
Awwww! THAT looks WAY BETTER!!! LOL
Packers0808
August 27, 2021 at 12:37 pm
About as much as I figured but if not you saw my answer! Hahah!
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 01:15 pm
That is pretty close to my guess. Where I possibly differ is:
Van Lanen. I think he’s been better than expected against week opposition, but I think he goes to the PS. It could be that Kelly is seen as surplus due to Nijman and Braden emerging as depth. In that case Van Lanen might sneak in for the lack of a better option. Personally, I think they would go 8 until Bakh returns at that point. I don’t think Van Lanen will play and thus the spot is used in a STer for now.
Ray Wilborn. I’m not against Wilborn but I think this position is completely up for grabs between him and McDuffie and possibly others. Burks’ should be too after he looked as clueless as Martin (PFF agreed) in his 12 snaps in a non rush role. McDuffie looked the best we’ve seen a non starter last week. He might be the favorite. Big day for these ILBs
Chauncey Rivers. Rivers is my choice but I think theirs is Garvin. Galeai makes it only if he continues to show in coverage this weekend. It could be we keep Garvin and Rivers. Again, a big day for these 3.
Stephen Denmark. The final CB spot is between Ento and Yiadom. Personally I think Ento is ahead but I expect those 2 to play a lot on D and special teams on Saturday. Denmark is interesting but raw.
Christian Uphoff. I just don’t see it. I think Scott is the most rounded of the three newer S prospects. I’m pretty sure he’s a lock, health permitting. Uphoff has never faced anyone. He will get a chance, deep probably, on Saturday. If he shows that might do it plus STs. However, I’m not convinced that we won’t see Denmark tried there. Hard and willing tackler, albeit a need to refine technique, and 217 lbs. Uphoff is 209! He needs some time in the weight room.
That said, I’ve freed a spot by only keeping 6 WRS to your 7. I think that will go to a STer. That may be an ILB or Uphoff as I don’t see a candidate in the other positions that have ideal body types for blocking/coverage (WR, TE, RB) unless return is a disaster when Bagelton/P.Taylor/D Williams might be options if Cobb is not. I’d lean to more ILB unless Uphoff or Denmark shows a lot better at deep coverage than the other safeties have. The same logic apples if they only keep 8 OL to start and retain another ST type. Harris is a good STer ILB, and I think D Scott has flashed too.
dobber
August 27, 2021 at 01:32 pm
They have to activate Bakhtiari from the PUP for this to be part of the equation. That could happen between now and the Aug. 31 cut date, but if he hasn't been activated, yet, I don't see it happening until October.
That gives you one slot back...
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2021 at 01:39 pm
Good post G&G.
I think they keep 10 OL and only 6 WRs to hold a spot until they decide on Sternberger...who could be cut and potentially put on the PS or traded after the suspension. He still seems to be in Otten's doghouse.
I think the probability of only keeping 5 WRs is greater than keeping 7.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 01:56 pm
I could see us picking up a traditional TE who can block, perhaps on the PS. They were high on Nuata before his injury. Sternberger is a lousy blocker and very inconsistent on top of that. Unless Tonyan gets hurt, he’s not being called upon for that role— the one we drafted him for. He was a move type in college and never a good blocker or often asked to, whereas a more rounded TE is what is called for in the TE2 role. Tonyan has effectively taken his role.
canadapacker
August 27, 2021 at 03:03 pm
I think that we have enough blocking tightends. Lewis may be getting long in the tooth and can he play enough snaps through out the games and still get it done,. Also key is can Deguara block withiout holding and will Tonyon stick his nose in there. Will Dafney make the team as well because he can block. I guess ( without tipping our hand too much) are we not really relying on the tightends and receivers blocking on the jet sweeps and end around types of plays or screens to the backs? Because if we have 2 tightend packages for runs up the middle or maximum protections, we had better have guys in who can block - like Lewis can. So I cant see us picking up another teams cut as the guys we have will suffice. I also believe Stearnberger is gone after his suspension - Just too many drops, holding penalties and not much YAC.
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 05:07 pm
Deguara and Daffney block very well. Far better than Sternberger. However they also do not do what Nuata was doing in camp, which was be a traditional TE good at the point of attack and mobile enough to impact run and pass plays to other targets and be a sure handed check down or shorter range option.
One option is to use Daffney or Deguara to block in the open and Lewis to do more in line and just not bother with a TE2. That’s the bulk of the role and Lazard is well suited to any routes where Tonyan is not the sole catching TE (minimal last year). More H-Back and WR opportunities could mean improved blocking, route running, getting open and catching. If they want that in one package, however, then they may bring in a TE at waivers.
greengold
August 27, 2021 at 04:06 pm
Hi LP!
Had been back and forth on the 10/9 OL... was thinking we had to keep Bakhtiari on the 53 but dobs mentioned he's already on the PUP...
What is going on with Coy Cronk? What a name!!! I like the Packers depth at OL even without Lucas Patrick, who I love, but his play looks to have dipped, and I think he gets cut as a cap casualty.
I don't know if Sternberger plays again for the Packers after his suspension is served. Man, he's dug himself a big hole.
I agree with everyone that keeping 7 WRs is overkill, but, I could see Gutekunst using a roster spot to protect Begelton, if he likes him that much. That WR room is deep. It will get marauded. Plus, having only 2 WRs returning next year? Gutekunst does look ahead with his calls. That's the reason why we still have Yosh...
Coldworld
August 27, 2021 at 05:10 pm
Bagelton is 28 and has had a decent but not utterly astounding camp. He had no NFL career pedigree. He will make the PS. That spot likely means we can keep another ST standout.
greengold
August 27, 2021 at 07:19 pm
Mere guesses. This is just super interesting to me, seeing how they massage these players to stay in system.
croatpackfan
August 28, 2021 at 02:21 am
I believe McDuffie will be 4th ILB because he is valuable player for ST
stockholder
August 27, 2021 at 02:29 pm
just set back and enjoy the game.
stockholder
August 27, 2021 at 06:37 pm
U tube - The seven dwarfs represent Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Light, Shadow, and Magic or 1. Bashful · 2. Doc · 3. Dopey · 4. Grumpy · 5. Happy · 6. Sleepy · 7. Sneezy.
THESZOTMAN1
August 27, 2021 at 08:39 pm
Here are my suggestions for some tough calls for final cuts:
Sternberger-poor production, often hurt, and then --- the coup d' grace --- the god awful decision in re PEDs. Too bad, but we'll be fine with the other TEs.
Summers-same as above, minus the suspension. Being a good ST player won't save his roster spot IMHO.
ESB-too little, too late. Always hurt. We're loaded with other, better receivers.
Lancaster-been a JAG for quite a while. Too bad. Got to get younger and especially more athletic.
Scott-It's time. Past time. Long past time. Wait til final cuts then scour the waiver wire and internet for good candidates. Then hold a big, short tryout, pick the best guy, and get him ready for 9-12. We really can't do any worse.
And finally, regarding Benkert. This talk about sneaking him onto the PS won't fly, unfortunately. I'd like to be wrong, but he's put out a lot of good tape in 3 games. This will get him an offer to be a #1 backup somewhere. He's earned it. Good for him.
The Szotman
croatpackfan
August 28, 2021 at 02:26 am
Every year people here claim that 3rd QB on Packers roster will not make PS because he is sooooo good somebody will pick him up for a starter.
And, only once that happened - Tysom Hill. But Saints did not take him as QB, but as "Deguara" like player who can throw the ball in case of emergancy.
Stop with the ridiculous assessment of players you root for, because you are not looking for help your team, but for your crush to get recognition you would like to have.
Even if somebody pull Benkert from PS, there will be Bortless available as 3rd QB on Packers roster.
Crankbait
August 28, 2021 at 06:09 am
My final thoughts heading into the regular season is that the Packers have improved their skill positions at running back, receiver and defensive secondary.
However, the offense skilled positions were excellent and championship worthy to begin with last season.
But what has gotten worse or stayed the same are the Packers Achilles' heel for the last 10 years and that is the trenches and special teams.
I feel that the chances of us winning the Super Bowl is dependent on our health compared to the health of the better teams out there. We must keep ours, they must lose their's.
And there are better teams out there.