Hello Wisconsin: The Packers are Wasting a Golden Opportunity
With a playoff shot in reach, the Packers are handicapping themselves needlessly.
By TimBackes
Despite a 7-8 record and a whole lot of blown opportunities this season, the Green Bay Packers still have a more than 90 percent chance of making the playoffs if they simply win their final two games.
There are only a couple convoluted scenarios that would prevent the Packers from getting to the postseason if they win out, so this is about as close to controlling your own destiny as you can get without actually doing so.
Coming into this season, there are very few who expected the Packers to be a realistic playoff contender. Most Packer fans were simply happy to learn if Jordan Love was the long-term viable answer at quarterback.
That question has now been answered with a resounding “hell yeah.”
To be in this position to possibly get into the playoffs a year earlier than anyone really thought possible is a tremendous opportunity. A taste of the playoffs can be an invaluable experience for a young team like this.
Upon their arrival to the playoffs, the Packers would be playing with house money. No one expected them to be there. No one would expect them to win a game. They’d be able to play as loose as they want, knowing the learning experience that comes from this year would be a major asset as the team gears up for a more serious run at a title over the next several years.
And there is, of course, always the outside chance that the team gets hot and goes on an entirely improbable run akin to the 2008 Arizona Cardinals or 2011 New York Giants, who entered as nine-win teams. Hey, anything can happen in the playoffs. You just have to get there first.
That is the opportunity that lies ahead of the Packers.
Unfortunately, there is a significant obstacle to that opportunity. It is entirely within the team’s control to remove that obstacle, but head coach Matt LaFleur has balked at the opportunity to do so on multiple occasions.
Yes, that obstacle is defensive coordinator Joe Barry.
Over the last three weeks, the Packers have made Tommy Devito, Baker Mayfield, and Bryce Young all look like all pro caliber quarterbacks. Devito, named NFC Offensive Player of the Week two weeks ago for shredding Barry’s defense, has since been benched. Mayfield played his finest career game en route to the only perfect passer rating ever surrendered by the Packers at Lambeau Field. Bryce Young looked like a completely nonviable quarterback, but went off for over 300 yards and two touchdowns, leading a historically bad offense to 30 points and a near victory.
By now, you’ve heard every Joe Barry rant under the sun. He never should have been hired; his record was abysmal at two prior stops. He never should have been retained once or twice. LaFleur should have taken the opportunity to fire him after the Tampa game and failed to do so. It nearly cost him in Carolina, and he once again made the decision to keep him on staff.
Ultimately, LaFleur’s own inability to see Barry for what he is (a massive hindrance to his team’s growth) is what will cost the Packers this season. Even if the Packers do make it to the postseason with Barry on staff, one must wonder what could have been this season if LaFleur was capable of seeing what the rest of the world sees: that Barry does not belong in a coordinator role at the NFL level.
The offense has advanced at a much faster rate than anyone realistically expected. The young players on that side of the ball have been gelling very well despite the lack of some of the team’s top playmakers for much of the season. Jordan Love has been objectively one of the best quarterbacks in football over the last six weeks of football based on nearly all of the stats we have available.
These early returns are being wasted by keeping Barry. In refusing to do the right thing for his team, LaFleur has tied a two-ton anchor around the legs of his football team. The fact that the team still finds itself in this position despite LaFleur’s repeated refusal to correct his mistake of three years ago at the coordinator position is, frankly, a minor miracle, and shows a lot about the development of Jordan Love.
Barry will almost certainly not be retained this offseason, but that is too little too late. The Packers have a very unique opportunity in front of them: a possible playoff berth before anyone expected it, with almost zero expectations placed on them.
Keeping Barry on staff is a rejection of that opportunity and a message to the entire roster that the head coach cares more about loyalty to his friends than about giving his team opportunities to succeed.
Wisconsin Beer of the Week
I miss the old days of brewery tours at Milwaukee Brewing Company on 2nd Street in Milwaukee’s Walker’s Point Neighborhood. You’d show up, pay 10 bucks, and basically get all the beer you could possibly drink within a two-hour span, a fun tour, a free pint glass, AND a poker chip that would get you a free MKE Brewing beer at a number of local establishments.
To me, that was the golden age of brewery tours in Milwaukee. There aren’t a whole ton of breweries that even offer those tours any more (Lakefront is still the gold standard there, but it’s also not the same as it once was). And now, Milwaukee Brewing Company as a standalone entity no longer exists.
The brewery moved on to bigger and better horizons in a new 6th Street facility in 2018. However, a combination of COVID and the brewery seeming to have overextended itself ultimately led to the company shutting down its operations.
Eagle Park Brewing, based out of Milwaukee and Muskego, purchased the MKE Brewing branding and recipes. The cans bear different designs and the beers themselves are now brewed at Eagle Park’s facilities, but the names of the beers remain the same, as do the recipes. So while it’s not what it once might have been, MKE Brewing still has a presence in MKE, as it should.
When I’m having company that’s not quite as adventurous as I am with beer drinking, I’ll usually pick up a 12 pack sampler of either Lakefront, New Glarus, or Milwaukee Brewing Company beers. I did this for MKE Brewing recently. It had been some time since I purchased any of their beers; probably since before the Eagle Park acquisition. I was glad that it tasted just as I remembered.
This specific beer featured here in this space today is MKE MVP, an IPA that was a relatively recent addition to MKE’s lineup before it ultimately shut down. It came after the MVP victories of Christian Yelich and Giannis Antetekounmpo, and just before the Aaron Rodgers return to MVP form.
This hazy IPA comes in at a moderate 5.5 ABV, and at 60 IBU it’s not too hoppy. It goes down quite smooth and is the perfect beer to have while watching sports or along with a burger or snack.
There’s nothing particularly groundbreaking about this beer; you’ll find the hazy IPA style all over the menu at basically any brewery or craft brew bar. But it was a nice little trip down memory lane in honor of a brewery that, in its hayday, had a very noteworthy niche in the landscape of Milwaukee craft brewing.
More defensive drama
Right as I was finishing writing this article for my Thursday morning publication time, news broke that Jaire Alexander was being suspended by the team for a game for “conduct detrimental to the team.” So this is me tacking in another section here at the last minute!
Details surrounding the suspension are rather murky. It is clear that Alexander’s actions in Carolina (naming himself captain, nearly botching the coin toss) played a role, but LaFleur indicated there was more to it than that, which would suggest that this latest incident was perhaps just the final straw in a series of incidents.
I cannot pretend to have any idea what is happening behind the scenes and in the locker room, but it is noteworthy that basically every ounce of drama that has occurred this season has been on the defensive side of the ball, which leads one to suspect that players are unhappy with the way that side of the ball is being handled.
You have this latest incident with Jaire. You have Alexander’s weird injury situation all season long, plus the very overt suggestions that he is unhappy with Joe Barry’s coaching (suggestions that date back more than just this year). You have DeVondre Campbell’s twitter rant after the Buccaneers game, the subject of which has been up for debate.
From an outside perspective, it sure seems as though many of these issues could have been avoided had LaFleur simply realized his coordinator was unfit to serve in this role at a professional level and replaced him before or even during the season.
Ultimately, this is an issue that LaFleur owns, and the way the team responds will reflect on his leadership, good or bad.
No matter what, this is one further sign that Barry has long overstayed his welcome, and any continuing drama that results from this overextended tenure is the fault of LaFleur alone.
Playoff scenarios entering Week 17
The scenarios for the Packers are actually quite simple.
If they win out and either the Rams or Seahawks lose a game, the Packers are guaranteed at least the seventh seed.
If they win out and both the Rams and Seahawks lose a game, the Packers will take the sixth seed.
There are also some more convoluted scenarios that involve the Atlanta Falcons, so you should cheer for the Bears (ugh) to win this weekend, even if that outcome isn’t quite as important. But it is imperative that either Los Angeles or Seattle lose at least a game over the course of the final two weeks.
The Packers have far and away the easiest schedule of all three of those teams, which gives them very good odds at getting to the postseason.
But of course, as we’ve seen over the last few weeks, nothing is ever as easy as you think it’s going to be in the NFL, especially with a massive deficiency on both defense and special teams.
Around the NFC North
As always, it’s time to go around the NFC North.
- The CHICAGO BEARS continue to play better football in recent weeks, which has reignited the conversation about whether the Bears should actually take a quarterback (like Caleb Williams) in the draft, pick a different highly coveted player (like Marvin Harrison Jr.), or trade down and continue to stack assets. I must say, the most hilarious thing about all of this to me is not the Justin Fields fan opinion rollercoaster, but rather the fact that people went through Caleb Williams’ old tweets and found out that he has a long history of cheering for… the Packers. Bears fans who found out about this lost their collective minds, and now I think the funniest possible thing would be for him to go to Chicago and ultimately play sleeper agent.
- The DETROIT LIONS deserve some congratulations for their first division championship in 30 years. Of course, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have won the division multiple times more recently than the Lions, and they haven’t even been in the division for 21 years, but this isn’t about the Lions’ long-term woefulness: it’s instead about their position as the playoff team that every single wild card opponent is begging to face in the first round.
- The MINNESOTA VIKINGS were playing coy about which of their three mid quarterbacks will face the Green Bay Packers this weekend. But let’s be real; it doesn’t matter. We all know that no matter how bad the quarterback is, he’ll have a field day against a Joe Barry defense. Even with the sad loss of TJ Hockensen to ACL and MCL tears, they still have all-world receiver Justin Jefferson to match up with Barry’s top cover cornerback, Preston Smith.
Packers’ drama overshadowed by Russell Wilson
While the Packers are dealing with some of their own relatively minor drama at the moment, the bigger news came on Wednesday when the Denver Broncos announced that Russell Wilson would not play in the final two games.
The de facto benching is purely a money saving move. Wilson is due a lot of money in March, and would not want to risk an injury that would trigger certain injury guarantees in his contract.
News came out shortly after that the Broncos do intend to cut Wilson in March, and that this has, in fact, been the plan for the last couple months.
The Wilson trade already looked awful after last year. Now that their plan is to move on in the offseason, this has to be one of the worst trades and extensions of all time. Wilson will count $35.4 million against the Broncos’ cap in 2024, and a whopping $49.6 million in 2025, even if he’s not on the team!!
The Broncos gave up an incredible amount of draft picks AND financial assets to be able to get what they thought was going to be a franchise quarterback who would lead them back to prominence. Now the Broncos are going to have to go back to the drawing board with a massive cap liability and without some important draft assets that could have helped them build their team over the last couple years.
Just an incredible turn of events in Denver, and it’s hard not to feel a bit of schadenfreude.
THIS or THAT in Mr. Backes’s room: Week 17 Update
As I’ve done the last several weeks, I’m going to give a quick update as to the latest THIS or THAT polls in my classroom. Of course, there are only a couple days to report, because we’re off this week.
Without further ado:
- Winter break defeated spring break
- Sledding defeated snowball fights
If you have additional THIS or THAT prompts you’d like to poll my high schoolers with, give your ideas in the comments! I’ve pulled a few from the comments so far.
Predictions for Packers vs. Vikings and Week 17
This week is essentially an elimination game for the Packers and Vikings. On paper this is a game the Packers should win. However, going on the road to Minnesota is never an easy prospect. The bigger issue here: Joe Barry remains the Packers’ defensive coordinator. In the last three weeks, the Packers have made three awful to bad quarterbacks look like all pros, lost two games they should have won, and gave up 30 to a historically bad offense.
As much as I want to believe in this team, I have zero faith in Joe Barry’s defense to help this team to victory. The Packers are going to have to score touchdowns on nearly every drive from this point forward if they’re going to survive, and that’s just not sustainable.
Vikings 30, Packers 27
LAST WEEK: 9-7
SEASON TO DATE: 144-95
THIS WEEK’S PICKS:
BROWNS over Jets
COWBOYS over Lions
TEXANS over Titans
FALCONS over Bears
RAVENS over Dolphins
BUCS over Saints
BILLS over Patriots
EAGLES over Cardinals
JAGUARS over PAnthers
RAIDERS over Colts
RAMS over Giants
49ERS over Commanders
STEELERS over Seahawks
CHIEFS over Bengals
CHARGERS over Broncos
VIKINGS over Packers
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
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Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
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Comments (113)
SwedeBayPacker
December 28, 2023 at 06:16 am
Playoff schmayoff. Why even bother with Flower Matt and the Bumbler at the helm? We'll just get humiliated, a team that the worst team in the league can score on at will has no business in the playoffs.
Let's all just focus on the draft.
Cheezehead72
December 28, 2023 at 06:42 am
I will agree that MLF is not a good HC. I believe he would be a very good to excellent OC and play caller if he was not also the HC. MM made the mistake of hiring him as a HC. It is very difficult to be the HC and a play caller. It takes a very good coach and a very good staff which the Packers do not have.
As for the playoffs see my comment below.
marpag1
December 28, 2023 at 06:46 am
Yeah, cuz missing the playoffs altogether is soooo much more glorious than making the playoffs and losing in the first round.
"Flower Matt and the Bumbler??" Dude, I think you might need to up your insult game a little bit. LOL.
SwedeBayPacker
December 28, 2023 at 09:00 am
Whenever I call them what they should be called my comment gets deleted....
Also glory? Who cares about glory. I couldn't care less about going to the playoffs and losing in the first round. I'll take a better pick in the draft over that glorious embarrassment.
Cheezehead72
December 28, 2023 at 06:37 am
My preseason projection for the Packers was 5 or 6 wins. They have surpassed that and con continue to make me look bad but I am ok with that.
I totally agree that Love has surpassed expectations in my book. He has proven he can be a QB in this league. And he has done it with the lowest paid and youngest offensive roster in the NFL and an inconsistent defense void a a true leader.
At times during the season I wanted the Packers to play for a draft choice. Now I would like to see them in the playoffs even though they will probably get beat. It will help Love to grow and the offense as a whole to grow with the added experience more than a better draft choice will help us.
cdoemel
December 28, 2023 at 06:01 pm
With you on this brother
marpag1
December 28, 2023 at 06:41 am
I clicked on this article just assuming that the author must be complaining about the benching of Jaire Alexander, and how it was ruining the Packers chances for postseason glory, and I was all loaded for bear to blast him for such a chuckle-headed gripe. Then I clicked on the link and it turns out that the author is actually quite sensible.
Who'da thunk it, eh? Maybe I need decaf...
Cheezehead72
December 28, 2023 at 06:43 am
Decaf is for sissies. That is humor.
marpag1
December 28, 2023 at 08:56 am
yeah, but in fairness to me, I didn't say I would DRINK the swill...
GregC
December 28, 2023 at 07:09 am
You failed to mention the most likely factor in LaFleur keeping Barry around for the rest of the season, which is that there is nobody on staff who is a good candidate to replace him.
Jaire Alexander's big contract is beginning to look like David Bakhtiari's big contract. The Packers basically got nothing out of Alexander this year, and now we've got attitude on top of the injuries. At least Bakhtiari seemed sincere in trying to get back onto the field and help his team. I'm not so sure anymore with Alexander.
Cheezehead72
December 28, 2023 at 07:33 am
I agree the MLF is keeping Berry around for the rest of the season because there is no one on the staff that can lead the defense. MLF is actually doing the right thing because if he fires Berry he would have to take a more active role in leading the defense which would take time from him leading the offense. Berry is the best option at this point.
I am on the fence with Alexander. It has been a down year for him and some of the reason is the injuries. Yes he does have an ego issue. He might be acting out due to the lack of leadership on the defense or it might be because he is just not happy and is looking to change teams. We will find out this off season. If Berry is fired, which should happen, and he does not ask for a trade it was the leadership of the defense. If He asks for a trade he is looking for greener pastures. If Berry is not fired, in which I might switch to the Bears, and he asks for a trade it could be either or both reasons. Let's see what Alexander does this off season.
Houndog
December 28, 2023 at 07:55 am
Cheezehead,
After a mediocre '22 season and an almost non-existent '23 season I highly doubt there are any "Greener Pastures" out there for Alexander.
He's averaging $22M per year in GB and his attitude won't help.
Big_Mel_75
December 28, 2023 at 08:59 am
At this point who cares? Give someone else a shot at it... The results can't be any worse... Maybe if they game planned Kenny Clark to cover JJ I would question but we have made 3 terrible QB's look like HOF when we play them. I have lost all faith in LaFleur. If he can not see the terrible coach Barry was/ is than why the heck would I think he will put the best team on the field? The complete disregard for the running game most games this season. The complete lack of coaching this young players have failed to put forth on the field this year fall squarely on the HC. He only was successful because Rodgers saved his bacon more often than not. I feel he is hindering the progression of Love and will never see real success with LaFleur at the helm.
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 10:41 am
"At this point who cares? Give someone else a shot at it... The results can't be any worse... "
We thought no one could be worse than Sean Mennenga...except maybe Mennenga's protegee.
cdoemel
December 28, 2023 at 06:05 pm
Dude! They hate Barry’s scheme!! Campbell, Alexander. And is it working? Coach Gray left!! Joe Barry has never been successful as a defensive coordinator. Ever! I hear he was successful as a linebacker’s coach, but obviously the bigger picture just doesn’t fit him. If, in your line of work, your boss was a total inept leader and didn’t know how to use his staff or motivate them, would you just sit on your hands and say nothing?
cdoemel
December 28, 2023 at 06:08 pm
And Jaire doesn’t care about the money. He gave up $700K to miss mandatory mini camp so he could train at his place. Money is not his concern. Which is interesting. We need that guy!!
dobber
December 28, 2023 at 07:14 am
Who knows where this team would be right now with a credible, innovative mind running the defense? 2023 has followed pretty much the same arc as 2021 and 2022--stretches where the defense looks terrible followed by stretches of credible performances...lather, rinse, repeat. Jerry Gray had enough and wasn't retained after he was clearly breaking with Barry. The DBs at that time went to management and said they weren't being used effectively. Campbell...Jaire...what a mess. Not an attractive situation for that next hire.
Fans of the Vikings and Bears are snickering up their sleeves, but they're also uneasy that their worst fears are coming true--another good QB in GB, and a chance that the Packers might hire a DC who'll get it right. Will it actually look that way in 2024? Who knows? The Packers had a pretty easy schedule in 2023, which does nothing but emphasize that this season is--as Tim says--a real opportunity that appears to be slipping away.
Russell Wilson--more "buyer beware" warnings to teams that want to try to buy a title with an aging QB whose best days are behind him.
NFCN
The Packers really do need the Bears to beat the Falcons this week in CHI...which means the Bears will crap the bed and lose. Bears brass might be starting to feel better about their direction, but if they finish the season with three losses--the last one coming in GB--it will be a bridge too far, and lead to a housecleaning that will be self-defeating.
Whichever QB the Vikes throw at the Packers this week will offer up plenty of INT-balls. Will the Packers have anyone in the secondary who cares enough to catch them? Losing Hockenson is a big deal. Losing Addison, too, makes it even worse for low-end QBs like Mullens, Dobbs, or Hall. Fully expect the Vikings to try to run their way past the Packers Sunday night.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 08:16 am
The contemporary news first reported that players went to Barry over his approach back in November 2021. You reference last year, now there seem to be more issues.
Two observations. One would imagine that the third season in a row suggests morale and perhaps buy in are compromised. Secondly, one would think that by this point LaFleur has made himself an object of frustration as much as the guy he keeps standing behind, particularly as he’s seemed to promise a change in approach each time only for none to be delivered.
This just makes the refusal to move on from Barry even more counterintuitive if true.
LambeauPlain
December 28, 2023 at 09:01 am
So far 5 games (and counting) lost by Barry Ball late in the game after Love and the Offense gave the team a lead. How would 12 and 3 look right now? Does anyone think the locker room does not know this?
All their offseason hard work, practice, learning, dedication wasted due to incompetent leadership.
It (until recently) has not been about points Barry's prevent (the win) defense gives up...it is when he surrenders them due to his stupid, timid, soft on the field calls.
The Packers could be entering a doom loop of leadership becoming a groundswell in the locker room as Tim wrote:
"...a message to the entire roster that the head coach cares more about loyalty to his friends than about giving his team opportunities to succeed."
We do not know all that is going on in the Packer locker room...and it is likely far worse than reported.
NickPerry
December 28, 2023 at 07:17 am
Thanks Time, spot on as usual...
BUT, I must say, I'm so sick and tired of reading or even commenting about Joe Barry's Defense or when you break down ALL the bullshit that has become part of the deal when Matt LaFleur is the HC of your football team.
Yes, making the Playoffs would really be something and it would be valuable experience for this football team in 2024 and beyond. Many have mentioned and written about the 2009 Packers playoff loss to the Cardinals as a huge help in the 2010 season. Personally I think those were two VERY different teams but okay.
This is just my opinion but what happened in Carolina with Alexander told me exactly what I had already come to believe. MLF has lost at least part of this locker room. The fact that it's even a question should be enough to shit can him at the end of the season. Hell, I haven't forgiven him for keeping Mo Drayton in 2021 yet, a move IMO cost the Packers a SB.
I will cheer for the Packers to win on Sunday despite the fact it will only put MLF on more solid footing to keep his job in 2024.
UGH..
Big_Mel_75
December 28, 2023 at 09:01 am
NickPerry couldn't agree more!! 100%
jannesbjornson
December 28, 2023 at 10:16 am
Welcome to Infante-land....
RCPackerFan
December 28, 2023 at 11:17 am
Just curious Nick. Can you mention Joe Barry without mentioning Matt LaFleur?
NickPerry
December 29, 2023 at 06:34 am
N not really when you consider MLF is the one who hired him, KEPT him for 2023, and then keeps him when everybody thinks he should be gone at various times in the season this year.
Hell, who's fault is it there not a viable replacement on this staff?
Who's fault is it Barry is still here?
Just curious, you do realize that right?
fthisJack
December 29, 2023 at 09:53 am
I'm torn between hoping for a playoff game and possibly having MLF and Barry back in 2024 or hoping they lose the last 2 and putting a nail in Barry's coffin and having a top 10 draft pick. Never been in this spot before. Worst case scenario would be to beat the Vikings and then lose to the Bears and experience another "close but no cigar" moment.
T7Steve
December 28, 2023 at 07:22 am
Keep the O-line chugging along and healthy.
Beat our next-door neighbors with a healthy dose of AJ and AJD.
I will not worry about the playoffs till we get two more wins, that since they are in the NFCN, are more important until we face an NFCN opponent in the playoffs.
Houndog
December 28, 2023 at 07:29 am
Wow, Tim!
As I started reading, my initial thought was that you'd be making a case to reinstate Alexander for the Viking's game, and my blood pressure started to rise a bit. As I continued I realized that you were spot-on, but then again, as I said the other day, "I've heard this song more times than the old Mike McCarthy classic 'Pad Level'.
This, the upper half of your article, is fish wrap, its old news and we've all read it and said it a thousand times in many different derivatives. Most of us are sick of wasting our breath talking about it.
But then the lower part of your article, following the beer commercial, got to the business at hand, Alexander, and even that leads back to the real story.
We've all heard and read the phrase 'Losing the team, Losing the locker room, Lost the team, Will he, Did he, Has he"? Well, as I see it the hand writing is clearly on the wall.
"THEY'VE lost at least the defensive side of the team, the defensive locker room, call it whatever you like. And, I say 'They' because this, unlike any defense we've seen this year, was a team effort that involved LaFleur, Gutekunst, and Murphy! LaFleur is the obvious target cuz he's at the forefront. Gutey catches hell cuz he's got the GM title. Murphy, hiding in the closet, or shoveling snow at his new golf course is at the top of it all, and it lands on him. He's the guy that stripped Gutey of real GM powers over Lafleur. The GM title is a misnomer, everyone answers to Murphy, and he's been absent, invisible, and crickets is what we've heard. He sat back for two years watching this shit and did nothing about it while LaFleur did nothing about it. And Gutey? He should have been chewing on somebody's ear, jumping up and down screaming, he wasn't, so he shares the blame. Or, maybe he was and nobody listened, but he's still part of this.
Now, Alexander, I don't give a shit about Alexander. In two of the last four games they were fine without him and in the one he played, he sucked! He's the classic "ME" guy that fancies himself a captain when he's nothing but an overpaid primadonna. He's ME ME ME ME ME! From my perspective they should have sat him for both games.
This is an embarrassment, the team is in shambles, Douglas, Campbell, Savage, and now Alexander, what a mess, THEY"VE lost the locker room, and lack of 'Management' is the reason!
stockholder
December 28, 2023 at 07:55 am
Zadarius Smith - It's nothing new.
The step before being washed up.
Houndog
December 28, 2023 at 08:08 am
stockholder,
Yeah, I thought about him when I first heard about Alexander.
Didn't Z. Smith throw some kind of 'Hissy-fit' for NOT being named a captain?
I remember reading about it, was that in GB or Minny?
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 09:30 am
Alexander should not, in my view from hindsight, have been playing. He was in a harness, one arm was barely used and he was clearly leery of tackling.
He’s been injured a lot. Unless he’s a really good actor (watch him between plays) he is truly banged up. It appears he’s not happy too, especially after LaFleur’s comments about other causation issues yesterday.
How the personal/motivation side works out only time will tell, but, ignoring that the injury is of a type that could be a long term weakness or just one that needs an off season to fix. Right now he’s visibly hindered. If he recovers fully, he’s still highly talented. If he’s not passed off too far, then we aren’t going to let him just walk for little or no compensation.
If the Packers think he’s got a potentially recurring injury, his release is virtually precluded by the cap consequences and trade would likely be very difficult and yield little.
If it’s a Tramon like issue, remember Tramon was far from himself one armed, we just had so little behind him. We have options. We should probably have shut Alexander down. That might have diffused much. It’s not impossible that his handling and comments made about it are a factor in the disgruntlement.
A healthy Valentine would not have been a step down last week. A healthy Jaire remains an asset. If the retention of Barry as a lame duck is an accelerant to this dispute, it’s an additional indictment of LaFleur, even if Alexander is the only one rather than the most likely to express it.
stockholder
December 28, 2023 at 09:59 am
Could be-
I think that had more tp do with his contract-
He wanted it extended. They Didn't.
Then came the back injury-
Then came signing with his old team
and getting out of that. For the vikings.
jannesbjornson
December 28, 2023 at 10:23 am
What do you choose, some big plays, or some big headaches? When they cannot deliver the plays, they will not see the Pay.
egbertsouse
December 28, 2023 at 07:40 am
One reason the Packers are in contention is because of the expanded playoff format which allows for more crap teams to make the playoffs and has turned the NFL into the NBA or NHL. The only other reason is because, outside of SF, Philly, and Dallas, the NFC is hot garbage.
You alll realize that if they make the playoffs, Joe will got an extension. Murphy does not make changes when they get that playoff revenue. That’s the money he uses to fund his theme park and condos.
Cheezehead72
December 28, 2023 at 08:08 am
Playoffs or not I doubt Berry will be back. If MLF does not find a new DC and hit a homerun with the hiring he will be looking for work after 2024 if the Packers hire MM's replacement right after the 2024 season.
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 10:39 am
You are correct: Barry's a poison pill a this stage.
Houndog
December 28, 2023 at 08:15 am
Egbert,
If I were a Real Estate developer I'd want Murphy on my payroll.
If I owned an NFL team I wouldn't allow him anywhere within 50 miles..
As for Barry, I strongly doubt he'll be back.
If LaFleur hasn't realized the result of his non-action at this point, he's blind, stupid, and never will.
Fire Him Too!
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 09:00 am
Houndog and cheezehead have it 100% correct
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 10:16 am
The Packers are also a real estate concern. Murphy was good at the business. Then he sensed the vacuum at the top of the organization and he seized it. A healthy Ted Thompson would not have stood for that new silo'd approach to operations with Murphy at the top of the food chain.
We should all be delighted that he's about to be forced into retirement, and we should all hope the board decides to hire his replacement this winter, to better prepare for the transition.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 08:28 am
We are in contention for the playoffs. However, we are only that because of the wild card. I’ve never liked the wild card in principle. It’s a route in for teams that don’t merit it and is often decided by being the least worst of a mediocre bunch. This team getting in by it doesn’t change that. We are not, in my mind, coming off a playoff worthy season or playing at a level that belies that.
That doesn’t take away from our potential in terms of Young’s talent or that of the young WR and TE groups. That is and was the area where we had the biggest win or loss from this season. We have a core of young offensive players that could be a real platform for the future.
Now we have to capitalize on that in the future. It’s very clear Barry should not be part of that. It seems increasingly doubtful that LaFleur can be. Therefore, it’s less making the playoffs that matters as how we address reality in the off season that determines whether this season will be seen in hindsight as a stepping stone to real contention and success.
It’s pretty ludicrous to head to the playoffs (if we do) with a lame duck coordinator, unless the team itself doesn’t believe in itself either, as a whole or in its other coaching talent. Just seems like there isn’t a clear vision and determination or perhaps confidence to realize it. The facade is crumbling.
marpag1
December 28, 2023 at 08:53 am
Fair enough if you don't like wild cards, but then does that mean you are in favor of a weak Tampa team knocking out a Dallas or Philadelphia (hypothetically)? That ain't right either... or are you just going straight up win percentage with no divisions?
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 09:04 am
I think CW is in favor of telling everyone what he thinks, and i don't think he's wrong.
Very perceptive actually.
I enjoy reading people's thought's, who do their own critical thinking and ultimately, make sense.
barutanseijin
December 28, 2023 at 09:50 am
Indeed. CW is very taken with the sound of hits own voice, hence the compulsion to drone on and on, beating the same drum to the same rhythm: Matt Lafleur sucks, Matt Lafleur sucks, Matt Lafleur sucks… only more verbosely and more pompously. The Matt Murphy as archvillain stuff is pretty much speculation, but through sheer force of repetition is taken as gospel around here. Otherwise, he’s quite reasonable.
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 02:41 pm
I haven't been here for years....
I responded to ONE of his comments and gave him credit for it.
Yes barut.....There is speculation, lies, truths, rumors, opinions, conjecture, assumptions, etc,etc,etc.
It's the intelligent person who weighs a subject matter through critical thinking and express his thoughts and opinion of all the information they gathered.
Nobody ever said the end result has to be pretty and give everyone the warm and fuzzy's in a world of thumbs up approval.
That is what i respect, critical thinking.
Not the Howdy Doody Yes Man wearing the Carry The G t-shirt he just got.
You know...the same guy who is so mentally bankrupt he hands out thumbs down like halloween candy because he can't gather an intelligent thought to write.
In related News...I broke 1,400 downvotes!!!!
Thank you..to all the Howdy Doody's who made that possible 👍🍻😎😏🤪🤔🍦🍪
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 09:10 am
I accept that divisional or conference inequalities led to imperfect inclusions/exclusions at times. However, I think the wild card has tended to exacerbate that and depreciate in season performance. I do not think the motivation for it was merit based. Do you?
LambeauPlain
December 28, 2023 at 09:50 am
Money based. Always follow it.
marpag1
December 28, 2023 at 11:45 am
No, it wasn't about merit. It was about the fact that the more games there are (especially playoff games), the more money the NFL makes. Same as the 17 game season, etc.. I don't think there is much doubt about that.
I'm not against wild cards because I think wild cards help to solve the "problem" that one division can easily have 2 teams that are both better than all of the teams in a different division, or better even than all other teams in the whole conference. I don't think a really good team - let's say the #2 team in the conference - should be out of the playoffs just because it's in the same division as the #1 team.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 12:57 pm
Fair enough, I see your perspective although I still differ in view.
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 02:49 pm
There can be more than 1 intelligent view.
My view is the Packers won't make the playoffs, and my 2nd view is if they did make the playoffs i could care less.because they won't be going anywhere but down in the draft.
The seasons goal was an extension of training camp for this young offensive to learn and grow.
Under that thinking, i think we already won.
Love is performing better than i thought he would, and all the receivers show flashes and promise, in at least having a 'role' on this team.
Sans Watson...i lost interest...sorry.
That is the 'win' this season, not getting jacked up if we snuck in the playoffs.
This team isn't ready for the playoffs.
Would i watch if they did make it, you bet your ass...lol
But i'm an NFL junkie, i'll watch any playoff game.
Plus, i don't miss any Packer games...ever.
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 10:22 am
The Premier League has relegation battles that keep the season interesting well past who finishes top 4. The NFL has wildcard battles that keep the end of season way more interesting than seeing who wins that final NFC south crown.
I love that the Packers have a shot at the playoffs. I bet the players love it too. It's a bonding opportunity for a very young team. Why wouldn't you be excited over that.
RCPackerFan
December 28, 2023 at 11:19 am
"We are in contention for the playoffs. However, we are only that because of the wild card. I’ve never liked the wild card in principle. It’s a route in for teams that don’t merit it and is often decided by being the least worst of a mediocre bunch."
Sooo basically what you are saying is our last super bowl we didn't earn that? That we don't deserve to have that trophy in our case?
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 01:00 pm
I will take the Super Bowl, since those were the rules and we won out, but I held the same view then. Ultimately it devalues the season in my view. That it might favor us, or any team, at some point doesn’t change that. I have always been against the wild card. Would it please you if I were hypocritical about that? Or were you just trying to be clever?
RCPackerFan
December 28, 2023 at 04:49 pm
you don't like the wildcard teams. Ok, so basically you feel there should be 4 teams that make the playoffs?
Our last super bowl was won because we were a wildcard team. And not only a wild card team the last team to make it in. Yet we won the Super Bowl. I don't really care that we were the 6th seed. I only care that we got in and that we won.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 05:55 pm
Rules are rules, I don’t have to like them, but we all have to play by them. Your claim that I do not recognize the Super Bowl is ridiculous. Just trying to be clever. And yes, I still do not like the wild card, despite recognizing Marpag’s argument, which has some validity.
RCPackerFan
December 28, 2023 at 07:20 pm
You say you don't like the wild card. But are good with the rules, yet complain about the wildcard. I must be stupid as shit because I don't follow you on this one.
Back to my question that you didn't answer. Since you don't like the wildcard, your proposal is to have 4 playoff teams in each division? Is that correct? That is what would make you happy?
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 08:30 am
With Rodgers gone, Joe Barry is the Packer fans new whipping boy.
The Packers are 7-8 and play yet, another losing team, not unlike most of the season.
The Packers are playoff contenders i read.
Technically i guess so,
But then again, 6, 7 games into the season, 32 teams are still playoff contenders.
"Hello Wisconsin: The Packers are Wasting a Golden Opportunity"
That^ is a article title that many Packer fans feel could have been used quite a bit in 30 seasons of HOF QB's.
LambeauPlain
December 28, 2023 at 09:10 am
"With Rodgers gone, Joe Barry is the Packer fans new whipping boy."
What planet are you from and how long will you be visiting us?
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 03:00 pm
Tune in tomorrow for a live feed on You Tube at 8am CST.
Hopefully i can explain it to you where you can understand it without it being so complicated and confusing to you.
Help is on the way LambeauPlain. Not to worry!! 💯👍
WOW!!
Houndog
December 28, 2023 at 10:22 am
Since'75,
It appears to me that you haven't been paying attention.
There are many of us on this site that have "Whipped" Barry for three years, and some of us screamed 'Bloody Murder' when he was hired, I was one of them. We screamed even louder when guys like Evero were passed over when it was time to replace Barry. There is no 'whipping boy', there are facts, and Barry sucks.
Why would anyone hire a DC that helped take the Lions to 0-16, and had been let go at nearly every place he'd coached?
Why, because he was LaFleur's buddy, and we had better hope that LaFleur now knows better!
Since'75
December 28, 2023 at 03:14 pm
It was a comment made in jest Hound, because there is some truth to it....
WTF is wrong with some of you people, i hate to say it but it's like some of you are clueless.
Maybe it's because some of you never get off line, idk.
Not to mention it's somewhat true in a sense,
Lets try this simple exercise. Don't try to overthink it, that won't be good, for anyone.
People always used to hammer Rodgers....now they always hammer Barry...right?
GET IT?
STILL NO?
I KNOW, IT'S COMPLICATED.
HOW ABOUT NOW?
Maybe that helps clear it up, so would taking off the soiled wife beater with cheeto stains and spilled kool aid.
**********
I know, i know....sniffle
CanPackFan
December 28, 2023 at 08:36 am
Your observations are spot on Tim. I never expected - and still don't - us to make the playoffs this year. To even be in the hunt says a lot about this young offense and receivers. Playing with house money, indeed!
I too have said every nasty thing under the sun about Barry. He has been a total liability to this team and as a result my respect for LaFleur couldn't be any lower. However, I see just a glimmer of hope in him re: the Alexander suspension. He actually did something hard for a change. He almost looked like a HC, and not a soft OC?
If the glass is truly half full, LaFleur becomes a more hardened HC and worthy of being the HC of our legendary franchise. If the glass is half empty, it could be another year of Barry Ball and wasted opportunity for a young and potentially great offense (not to mention his career in GB). Let's not repeat the wasted Rodgers years. The glass is half full, I hope! GPG
TimBackes
December 28, 2023 at 09:02 am
Matt LaFleur didn't suspend Alexander; Brian Gutekunst did.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 09:18 am
LaFleur didn’t bench him. That puzzled me. Surely that would be the first and immediate action one would take as a leader? More so watching his arm hang limp—should he have even been active?
Someone pointed out that Gute was presumably required to place him on the reserve-suspended list, which at least explains why he was necessary.
LambeauPlain
December 28, 2023 at 09:19 am
Gutekunst is only "General Manager" of Player Personnel. So it seems Acting GM of Football Operations, Mark Murphy, allowed Brian to maintain player decisions, including suspensions. MLF was TOLD to support the decision he did not have the courage to make.
Why do I have the feeling MLF was upset with the decision and whined to his boss, the Acting GM, to try to usurp the "general manager of players", yet again?
MLF scampers like a terrified rabbit from difficult decisions but Pappa Murphy did not come to his aid this time.
CanPackFan
December 28, 2023 at 09:47 am
Come on Tim! Whoever "made" the announcement didn't do it on their own without consultation. Because it wasn't announced formally by LaFleur doesn't mean he wasn't in agreement or wasn't the instigator of the suspension. With the Packers - miraculously, somehow - still in the playoff picture, there is no way Gutes did this unilaterally without LaFleurs' agreement.
I guess its sad that we're even debating this point? It doesn't say much for LaFleurs' image as a HC for sure...
Oppy
December 28, 2023 at 08:52 pm
Tim, is that verified fact?
If so, the organizational power structure of the Packers is even more damaged than I already believed them to be.
Please confirm, is it verifiable fact that it was not Matt LaFleur, but Brian Gutekunst that initiated the decision to suspend Jaire...?
If so, Murphy has completely destroyed any trace of sanity in this organization, and I pray more than ever that the Harlan model is restored in GB when the board picks the next President.
CheesePuff
December 28, 2023 at 08:44 am
The Packers have turned in an acceptable season (for them), and have no business in the playoffs, unless you like watching bad football. As for Alexander and Campbell, they are done with the Packers - next man up. Barry is La Fluer's guy and will be around until he becomes expendable for MLF's job security. Next year the bar will be a little higher, but not much, at least for management. The fans are a different story, and always have been.
Cheezehead72
December 28, 2023 at 08:54 am
If the Packers would have draft Logan Wilson in the 2nd of the 2020 draft like I wanted them to do we would not have needed to sign Campbell and we would have had a very good three down LB with good character. I watched him play for Wyoming and he is a real football player. Gute could have drafted Dillion in the 3rd instead of Deguara.
Aldo
December 28, 2023 at 08:50 am
I agree this is as much on MLF as it JB. It was clear to me that at the end of last season when the decision was made to keep Barry that MLF was blind to the reality of Barry's incompetence and was unwilling to do the right thing. His loyalty to Barry should cause everything to put under a microscope, starting with who is in charge of the assistant coaches. With that said, there should be more than Barry held accountable. I agree with an earlier comment that some of the assistants who have elected to leave while MLF has been at the helm, did so in recognition of the incompetence MLF chose to keep in place.
LeotisHarris
December 28, 2023 at 08:55 am
I'm hoping for two wins to end the regular season. If that lands us in the playoffs, great. Because I have relatively good have vision, I'm able to watch other NFL teams play football. The intensity other teams bring to the field makes the Packers look pedestrian. Yes, I've seen improvement in our young players this season, especially on O, but there is something missing from this team.
So, let's beat the Viking and Bears and see where this thing goes. When the MLB season ended, how many people picked the Rangers to win the World Series? That's why they play the games.
LambeauPlain
December 28, 2023 at 09:29 am
I have often thought about Harbaugh as Packers Head Coach.
Hold on...not Jim, but John.
Then let Jim come to the bares and the Packer - Bears Rivalry could be renewed for real.
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 11:13 am
So if other teams have more intensity, and better coaching, then how is the youngest team in the league on the verge of the playoffs?
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 12:29 pm
Indomitable spirit?
Talent?
The ghost of Lombardi?
Crazy dumb luck?
eez a mystery, no?
I'm refusing to consider that it's the unrecognized genius coaching the team. Just not seeing that.
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 01:08 pm
I'm not saying "unrecognized genius". I think the word I would settle for is "competent".
I'm looking at what the coaches have had to overcome this year, just on offense.
1) A first year starter at QB, and the people who had been developing him for three years, the coaching staff, look like they might know something.
2) Bakhtiari. Nothing. That's a hard blow to your starting Oline right out of the box. So you make the decision to go with Walker. He was getting overwhelmed, so you split time with Nijman so his head could stop spinning, and Walker has clearly won the starting spot.
3) Jones. One of the league's top RBs, sidelined with injury. It's hurt the offense's scoring ability.
4) Two Rookie TEs, one of whom is injured.
5) Watson is unavailble, and rookies are having to play. That means sometimes, they aren't going to run the right route. Or that they're hurt and can't play or practice, like Reed or Wicks, or anybody else.
So I'm just saying.....we're 11th in scoring right now, even after all this. There isn't any competence among the people who've helped make that happen?
Similarly, you look at the defense, playing without their main dogs. Savage has missed games. Alexander has missed games. Stokes has missed. Campbell has missed. Gary has missed.
Who is on the field for us? Day 3 Rookies and UDFAs. Ballentine, Valentine, Owens, Ford, Johnson, etc. These are the horses that we have to ride heading into the most important game of the season. As a wise person told me once, "It is what it is". Everybody will do the best that they can to win this game. But throwing people under the bus with two games to go....on a team that could make the playoffs.....is borderline crazy, IMO.
LeotisHarris
December 28, 2023 at 02:14 pm
Parity. The NFL strives for it and has succeeded in benefiting from it. All we need to do is look at the NFC and AFC South. The Packers might be able to sneak in because the bar is low enough. My take, that's all.
TheBigCat
December 28, 2023 at 09:19 am
Tim:
Last time I was touring the Point Brewery (Stevens Point, WI) we paid a nominal fee for the tour, many samples of beer and a pint glass. A good time was had by all. I suggest you stop in on your next trip "up nort."
Regarding Alexander's exploits, I find it interesting the GM was quoted at length about the incident, and not the HC (which to me, is part of MLF's responsibilities). Along w/ refusing to take action on Barry, this simply reinforces my belief HC is too big of a stage of MLF
TheVOR
December 28, 2023 at 09:21 am
Regarding Jordan Love and the resounding “He’ll Ya”? Take the green and gold beer goggles off. If that guy doesn’t work on his accuracy in ball placement, he’ll be out of the league in four years. He’s about getting a receiver killed every week with his ball placement on throws.
LambeauPlain
December 28, 2023 at 09:42 am
Narratives are just that...a narrative that often are quickly dispatched by facts and data. Love the facts and data that surround Jordan!
Love is showing he is an effective NFL QB as his stats display. Even more narrative dispelling: he has played well in his first year as a starter with a weak run game, rookie and sophomore receivers, a dysfunctional OL and a pathetic defense that has surrendered 5 games late after Love and the O gave the team a lead.
If he had these complimentary assists his accuracy would be sublime and might even assuage you.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 10:25 am
With one type game to go to get to 16 games (the number played in 2008), over15 games Love & Rodgers records in their first season are stunningly similar:
Rodgers: 320-of-505 passing attempts (63.4 percent)
Love: 321-of-514 passing (62.5 percent),
Rodgers: 3,730 yards,
Love: 3,587 yards.
Rodgers: 25 touchdowns vs. 13 interceptions,
Love: 27 touchdowns vs. 11 interceptions,
Rodgers: 91.8 rating
Love: 91.4 rating
We forget that Rodgers still had some issues in his first year, just as Love does. 15 games don’t lie.
All I can say is that I would have taken those figures in a heartbeat in August. That’s not all-star, but it is genuine starter level and achieved with a hobbled run game and inexperienced receivers and TEs.
That’s a win for a first season starting my any reasonable metric. I think Love’s temperament has surprised me most. He’s seldom flustered and can overcome issues. That’s a great trait.
Now the question is whether, like Rodgers did, he can build on that in 2024 and beyond? Test one has unequivocally been passed though, as I see it.
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 01:21 pm
" 15 games don’t lie.
All I can say is that I would have taken those figures in a heartbeat in August. That’s not all-star, but it is genuine starter level and achieved with a hobbled run game and inexperienced receivers and TEs.
That’s a win for a first season starting my any reasonable metric. "
OMG. Coldworld. I am so happy to read this. This season has been a win by any reasonable metric. I couldn't agree more, and I wonder how the youngest team in the league did this with morons in the front office a nd coaching staff?
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 05:59 pm
Nice try LH. I do acknowledge your efforts to cheerlead. Always good to have your voice, even when we differ.
At this point Love’s ability exceeding most expectations and a young skill Player group that has done the same can overcome much don’t you think?
A draft that looks to be excellent when we most needed it and perhaps a past draft redeemed. To match Rodgers first year is pretty stellar with not a single first rounder.
LeotisHarris
December 28, 2023 at 09:41 pm
ATTN PEOPLE OF THE INTERNET!
We've just experienced a respectful interaction between posters with opposing views. Right here on the CHTV, and between two of my fav-o-rite dudes. Well done, LH and CW. May your civility guide us all going forward.
PS many, many people think LH resembles Jesus (from a distance) if you squint, and countless others look to CW for their only reliable source of current events and history. Like former Packer great Ron Kostelnik used to say, "if you're going to watch movies, they may as well be about gladiators, and to achieve success we must pay a price."
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 09:20 am
I haven't looked like Jesus since the mid-70s. Nowadays, I look a lot more like Teddy Roosevelt, or more precisely, Robin Williams playing Teddy Roosevelt.
I'm just at a loss to explain how Love improves, and the WRs improve, and other players improve, when our coaching staff is a bunch of imbeciles. IMO, the logical conclusion is that perhaps they aren't as incompetent as people here have claimed.
Bitternotsour
December 29, 2023 at 10:40 am
Ray Rhodes went 8-8 and was fired. He got exactly one year. I could easily argue that this team has actually underachieved. You have a small player mutiny going on, Jaire Alexander appointing himself a team captain, no immediate discipline. Aaron Rodgers usurping power from the get-go, MLF never standing up to him.
I'm not arguing that Love is not making the best of the situations he's in, I'm arguing that he's not being placed in the best of situations, and that the staff is extremely suspect. Ongoing offensive line issues, curious play calling, and the Joe Barry saga as obvious exhibits.
I believe that MLF will do whatever it takes to keep his job, fire Barry, hire new OC, clean house on defense. It won't change who he is - a jumped up offensive coordinator with a highly competitive streak. He's Mark Trestman with a better quarterback. He coaches a team without substance (though not without talent), a team that reflects who he is.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 12:48 pm
Wait a minute....the youngest team in the league has underachieved, when it's at the cusp of the playoffs???? When Love is near the top in TD passes? With all the injuries we've had to overcome?
Underachieved? I am not sure that word means what you think it means.
The ongoing line issues? We lost our pro bowl LT, and replaced him with Walker. For a while he split time with Nijman. That's it. We resisted the urge to play musical chairs and right now, we've got a pretty good group that protects Love pretty well.
Bitternotsour
December 29, 2023 at 01:33 pm
Underachieved is a pretty clear word for me. I might refer you back to your preseason assessments. I believe this team left food at the table. I believe the defense has...underachieved based on the accrued talent. Excuse it with injury if you wish, but you might be hard pressed to find a team without injuries across the board this year.
I was one of those that EXPECTED to make the playoffs. I expected Jordan Love to be good. I believe in the accrued talent. My underlying fear was coaching.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 06:35 pm
I was one of the guys who expected that we'd have most of our starters on the field. I think we have a lot of talent, but we put a lot of guys on the field all the time who are backups, rookies, UDFAs, etc. On defense, especially, all you need is one guy who isn't on the same page as everybody else.
The losses to Denver and LV were bad losses. Add in the Giants game. That's three road wins that we might have had if we didn't have the youngest, most inexperienced team on the league. Then our record would be 10-5 right now.. But that's what you get when you have to play guys who aren't really as ready as you'd like.
If somebody last March had said : You'll trade Rodgers, promote Love, and you'll be 7-8 with a shot at the playoffs, I'd have been happy with that. If they had said that Love would be among the league leaders in TD passes, I'd be fine with that. Yes, we could have been better, but things don't always work out the way you want. Let's pretend Bakhtiari doesn't miss the season, and that Jones and Watson had been healthy all season. We've done damn well, all things considered.
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 10:30 am
He's throwing to the youngest receiver group in the league. Take a look back at who Rodgers had as his wideouts when he took over. Every quarterback has accuracy issues.
Green Bay has the best quarterback in the NFC north. Gutekunst wins.
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 01:26 pm
I'm not quite ready yet to crown him, but the other NFC North teams have to be concerned that we've done it again, replacing a very good QB with another one. It's obviously not an accident , or luck, and they're all playing catchup in 2024.
Detroit will have Goff, the Bears will have ?, and the Vikings will have ?
Regardless of what happens the rest of this season, I think the Packers are in better shape heading forward than the rest of the division.
Lphill
December 28, 2023 at 09:40 am
looking more and more like this will be defense heavy draft.
Coldworld
December 28, 2023 at 10:45 am
Probably, particularly if the new DC wants a change in the balance of the DL and to reshape the secondary. We obviously need safeties. Of course part of that is made possible by the unexpected success of the WR and TE group. However, the OL particularly and perhaps RB have strong claims to priority and numbers too.
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 01:37 pm
Not necessarily. Right now, we're starting Ballentine and Valentine, and Owens and Johnson Ideally, we'd have Alexander and Stokes back since they're under contract. We'd draft a Safety early, maybe even in the first round. You would hope/expect that Ballantine and Valentine and Johnson would all be better next year, or at least one of them would.
Also, we do have 5 picks in the Top 90 or so right now, and we could move around a little to get the guys we'd want
The Edge rusher unit of Gary-Smith-VanNess-Enagbare is in good shape. The DL returns Clark, Wyatt, Slaton, Brooks, and Wooden.
IMO, the priority in the draft would be to get offensive players who would help Love succeed, and that would be blockers and running backs. We could lose Jones, Dillon, Runyan and Nijman in the offseason but we could replace all of them with Day 2 picks. I think it would make the offense better.
NFLfan
December 28, 2023 at 09:55 am
Rodger's, Bakhtiari's, Alexander's egos and voices got larger and louder as their competence declined.
GM's need to rid their teams of those who feel more important than the team. Alexander has to go, so does Bakhtiari.
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 10:32 am
Conversely, an effective manager manages to the strengths of his assets. That MLF/Barry can't get the best out of an all-world talent like Jaire speaks very badly to their overall competence.
NFLfan
December 28, 2023 at 10:38 am
It is difficult to 'get the best' out of guys who are essentially narcissists.
It really is all about them and a GM needs to remove them-Example: Rasul is a team guy and has character, Alexander is about Alexander.
justjan
December 28, 2023 at 10:58 am
You know he has been injured most of the season, right?
NFLfan
December 28, 2023 at 11:03 am
He seemed to be free of 'injury' when he played on his home turf.
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 12:39 pm
you need to start watching with your eyes open. he played one-armed.
NFLfan
December 28, 2023 at 01:43 pm
Let's put it this way-there are a number of issues w/Jaire off-field as well.
Bitternotsour
December 28, 2023 at 04:54 pm
suppose you take us inside the locker room to enlighten us.
Qoojo
December 28, 2023 at 10:57 am
Packers are about where I expected them to be at this point. I figured that the defense would be exposed or be focal point this season, because the offense would have some growing pains and not be able to cover for the typical JB defense. MLF's offense could run as he intended, for good or bad, so we would know if MLF is worth keeping.
JB is as good as his resume predicted. So whatever process or desperation led to JB's hiring, it needs to prevented from happening again.
I think MLF has done a lot of positive things with the offense this year. It seems like the players like him or did. He doesn't seem like HC material as he cannot evaluate his coaching staff and make the necessary changes. Additionally, he couldn't provide the guidance to improve the defense.
So the decision is, fire MLF and risk regression on offense or hire new DC and hope the new guy is competent (aka packers modus operandi for 2 decades). I guess the answer depends on who is available for HC and DC.
Houndog
December 28, 2023 at 11:09 am
Tim,
"LaFleur didn't suspend Alexander, Gutekunst did".
That's correct, and its because LaFleur's balls are in his golf bag!
Alexander should have been sent to the locker room immediately following the coin toss.
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 11:11 am
We're wasting a golden opportunity to get rid of people who aren't good enough, right as we're on the threshhold of the playoffs.
Let's not stop with Barry. Let's fire LaFleur, and Sten and Butkus, and Bisaccia. Let's cut Josh Myers. Let's get rid of the guys who got us here in favor of other people who haven't.
Sheeeesh. And 15 yards penalty to Tim Backes for piling on Barry.
Two games. We win them both and we go to the playoffs, we lose one and the season ends in about 10 days. Then we can make all the changes our hearts desire. If we make the playoffs, I'd suspect our coaching staff is going to remain largely intact going into 2024.
RCPackerFan
December 28, 2023 at 11:38 am
Seriously though, listening to people bitch and moan non stop just gets so damn old. Literally every article that is written here, all we see is Matt LaFleur needs to be fired. No matter what is written. An entire article written purely about Joe Barry, its Matt LaFleur. An article written about special teams, its Matt LaFleur.
Its so damn exhausting.
We all know Joe Barry needs to go. I'm pretty positive Matt LaFleur knows this as well. And that will happen when the season is over, regardless of what happens. Anything short of a Super Bowl win, I am expecting Barry to be gone no matter what.
ANd in the very small chance that he isn't gone, then LaFleur's immediately on the hot seat. LaFleur is not now though, nor should he be. He controls the offensive side with oversight of the rest of the team. The Offense has improved all season. To the point that there are people saying Love should be considered MVP. (i saw it on twitter yesterday and today, so don't kill the messenger).
We have 2 games left. I want them to win both and get to the playoffs. Regardless of what happens in the playoffs, exposing the young players would do wonders for them. It would give them a big boost for next year. Look at how the Lions finished last year and how the propelled them into this year. The Packers this year are doing something very similar. Finishing the season strong would be great for them!
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 01:15 pm
RC, you get this.
LeotisHarris
December 28, 2023 at 03:31 pm
This is a really good read.
https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/max-fisher/the-chaos-machine/97...
RCPackerFan
December 28, 2023 at 04:57 pm
Social media has definitely destroyed us as a country. And its only getting worse. Everything is politicized. There is so much hate put into social media. Even on this site. Its non stop hate half the time. People aren't happy unless they are bitching about something. I'd love to see the numbers but this site I bet has double the number of comments after a loss compared to when there is a win. People just can't be happy anymore. They don't have patience, and don't seem to grasp the concept of how building something works. Its pretty sad really.
Via.Lombardi
December 28, 2023 at 12:04 pm
The problem with this article is that it doesn't provide a solution to Joe Barry.
T7Steve
December 28, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Have Gun Will Travel.
ImaPayne
December 28, 2023 at 01:29 pm
Wood Chipper?
Leatherhead
December 28, 2023 at 01:13 pm
,,,
ImaPayne
December 28, 2023 at 01:28 pm
I'm LMAO about the coin toss. It takes a lot of balls to do what he did but me thinks he did it because he's actually been suspended for a while under the guise of an injury or sorts that the could have played through. My take is they told him he could play if he behaved him self and stopped bitching about Barry, a guy LeFluer is protecting. So he goes out and says he watch this is you think I'm done screwing with you. Good for him. He is ready and has been ready for another team. He got da moooney.
He will not be back next year if I'm guessing correctly. My crustall ball says so.
cdoemel
December 28, 2023 at 05:59 pm
This is crystal clear. This year was always supposed to be a learning year. Low expectations with high hopes. I’m certain Lafleur is feeling the heat about JB. The players have been obviously disgruntled since last season. So, since this year was always a low expectation year, they’re letting JB hang himself. Changing coaches in the middle of a season is useless. This is the last year of his contract. He’ll be gone. And hopefully healthy versions of 23 and 59 will be back.
Starrbrite
December 28, 2023 at 06:23 pm
I love to see the Broncos sucking wind. I hope they never win again unless it somehow helps the Packers.
Go Packers!!!