Lack of Improvement from the Packers Wide Receivers a Big Concern

The Green Bay Packers offense has struggled in 2023 and there are many reasons for the lack of production. One important issue has been the lack of progress from the team’s young wide receivers.

GM Brian Gutekunst took a gamble this offseason when he moved on from Aaron Rodgers to Jordan Love. Because of the poorly structured deal the team signed with Rodgers in 2022, the resulting dead cap hit limited the team’s options for building a roster this season.

So, Gutekunst made sure the team was younger and less expensive. The tradeoff was they would be more athletic and faster.

Veterans like Allen Lazard, Robert Tonyan, Marcedes Lewis, and Randall Cobb were not brought back to the wide receiver and tight end rooms. None of the team’s wideouts or tight ends would have more than one year of NFL experience (except Josiah Deguara who is used as a fullback/H-back).

That meant that Chrisitan Watson, Romeo Doubs, and Samori Toure would be the most experienced receivers on the team.

Based on what we saw from Watson and Doubs last season, Gutekunst and head coach Matt LaFleur were counting on those players to take a step forward in their second NFL seasons and to become key components of the team’s offense. Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked out that way through the first seven games of 2023.

Watson got off to a slow start in his rookie season due to injuries that cost him most of training camp and some early-season games. His size and speed gave him outstanding potential, but Watson had a lot to learn, making the jump from a small school to the NFL.

But in Week 10 against the Cowboys, the former North Dakota State star had a breakout game and never looked back. He finished the season with 41 catches for 611 yards and seven receiving touchdowns.

The coaching staff was looking for Watson to pick up where he left off and build on it. That hasn’t happened. In fact, Watson appears to have regressed in many areas of his game.

For a receiver who is listed at 6’4”, Watson hasn’t consistently learned to use his size to his advantage yet. He needs to improve his ability to box out defenders and draw penalties. Watson also hasn’t mastered the ability to time his jump for the ball, so he maximizes his chances of catching it.

He doesn’t seem to have mastered the ability to make contested catches. Last season, Watson’s catch percentage was 62.1 according to pro-football-reference.com. This season, it’s down to 45.8.

Last week, against the Vikings, Watson was 0-for-3 in contested catch opportunities. He was far from alone as the team was 0-for-7.

“We have that expectation, and we need that mentality that when the ball is in the air, it’s our ball,” LaFleur said after the loss to the Vikings.

This is something the coaching staff should have been working on with Watson, Doubs, and all the receivers throughout training camp and during the season.

Doubs has also did not make a noticeable jump in his second season. His catch percentage went down from 62.7 in 2022 to 52.9 percent this season.

Most Packers receivers have struggled to run proper routes and on too many occasions, we have seen two receivers run the same pass pattern to the same spot on the field during the same play.

The early- season struggles of the receiving corps were not completely unexpected when you have an inexperienced quarterback and receivers. Injuries to some of the receivers, the offensive line and running back Aaron Jones have also slowed the progress of the entire offense.

But the coaching staff also must be held partially responsible for the lack of improvement by the young receivers. Are there enough plays being called to scheme receivers open? Are the plays being called working to the players’ strengths? Is the coaching staff teaching the receivers well enough for them to grow and improve?

These are key questions that the Packers must address over the remainder of the 2023 season. They need to see their young wideouts make progress and they need more consistency from them to properly evaluate Love. Over the first seven games, the results have been rocky. How they do in the final 10 games will be a critical part of the Packers outlook heading into 2024.  

 

PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.

__________________________

You can follow Gil Martin on Twitter @GilPackers

__________________________

NFL Categories: 
9 points
 

Comments (121)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Coldworld's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:10 am

It all starts with the OL, but not getting their route running and technique improved over the preseason or since is a big red flag. Wrong or sloppy routes abound. There is either a disconnect with the expectations or in the preparation for the season and each week, maybe both.

7 points
9
2
T7Steve's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:27 am

You beat me to the OL punch.

Be able to run the ball and you can do a lot of things in your passing game that you can't get away with if you can't.

2 points
4
2
crayzpackfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:19 pm

Or these highly coveted and drafted "RAS" guys have "R"eally "A"verage "S"marts. Maybe we need to start drafting football players, tough guys, IQ guys, High character guys who give a shit.

2 points
3
1
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:33 pm

CPF-
Could a GM lacking character recognize it in another?

2 points
4
2
crayzpackfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:35 pm

Good point

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:24 am

I think preseason preparation was pretty good, but week to week cannot possibly be.

Regression is everywhere, not just the WR room. I will say that individual WR catch % is less meaningful when they're not being hit in stride, but have to twist and contort to try to get to the ball. That being said there are too many drops! But we can't say they aren't fighting for the ball on contested catches, it's possible to just get beat. We don't know the extent of their effort or preparation in those situations, but improvement is necessary. And it's just not happening.

Coaches are involved in that, and accountable moreso than players when it's endemic to a whole team.

3 points
3
0
stockholder's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:10 am

No- The trade off was more loses.
The Wrs hit the deck too easy.
And look how they miss practice
With the Drafting of Reed.
Toure is in the dog house.
But this is exactly why I still wanted Rodgers retained.
Because a Veteran is always going to tell it like it is.
No matter what. -

-13 points
4
17
Cheezehead72's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:19 am

Rodgers was not happy in GB. He might have made it worse. The key word there is might. I do not know how it would have played out.

I am happy he is gone so we can move forward. Yes it might be a few years before we are competative again.

6 points
7
1
stockholder's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:34 am

Rodgers made players better.
Moving on to what.?
Even the great Bart Starr had trouble
coaching QBs. /Finding one

You might remember David Whitehurst, Lynn Dickey
and even Rich Campbell.

What is surprising is James Lofton made the HOF
with such a qb revolving door.

And I would take any of them over Love.

-7 points
2
9
jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 02, 2023 at 02:28 pm

Rodgers said he was going to retire before the prospect of the Jets changed his mind.

"In my mind, I'm retired" So we would have Love at QB anyways and no picks and a huge salary escalation if he wasn't traded.

6 points
6
0
Johnblood27's picture

November 02, 2023 at 02:54 pm

Do NOT lump Lynn Dickey in with QB's that had little talent and produced poor results.

Dickey was an above average QB that had some really bad injury luck and always played across from a completely shitty defense.

If you didn't watch the games then, don't comment on them.

If you did watch the games then and that is your take, follow basketball.

13 points
15
2
MainePackFan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 06:36 pm

As a young Packer fan who got to the party late, Lynn Dickey gave me hope.

3 points
3
0
Johnblood27's picture

November 02, 2023 at 06:55 pm

Ay-uh...

1 points
1
0
MainePackFan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 07:40 pm

never dump on Lynn Dickey. Taint right I tell ya ;)

3 points
3
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 02, 2023 at 10:43 pm

Never. Hadl yes, but not Dickey.

1 points
1
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:25 pm

Dickey was hurt alot, but he always got up. I saw a game at Lambeau where he was slow off the turf 3 times and he kept coming back into the game. The next year he wore a flak jacket. You couldn't lick him!

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 02, 2023 at 07:24 pm

Great call, Jb. Dickey is fourth on the Packers all-time passing yardage list behind Brett, Aaron, and Bart. He had a nice career from 1976-85 with a season or two lost to injury; broken leg was the big one. HIs all-time completion percentage is less than 1% point away from Starr's. Tough guy, and good QB that played through a lot of pain.

7 points
7
0
stockholder's picture

November 02, 2023 at 07:52 pm

How can you call that a great call.
The packers never got the air time,
and you had to subscribe to the Packer Report.
Or check the box scores back then.
Starr was the GM /coach.
It wasn't a knock on Dickey.
But you don't draft a Qb #1 per Campbell.
If your happy.
Lump ? I said I would take any.

-3 points
2
5
LeotisHarris's picture

November 02, 2023 at 08:34 pm

i called it a great call because you erred in including Dickey in with inferior QBs. It's as simple as that. Even in my cave with rabbit ears back in the 70s and 80s I was able to watch every Packer game on the tee vee, and I did enjoy Packer Report. We also had radio.

I recall and understand Starr's role back in that era. Funny how being a great player doesn't translate into being a great coach more often than not. Although, Bart was just getting it together as a HC when they showed him the door.

You seem a bit more testy than usual. Sleeping okay?

4 points
4
0
stockholder's picture

November 02, 2023 at 08:57 pm

you erred in including Dickey -
He drafted Campbell with Dickey on the team yet.
Didn't see it as a put down. I knew of the injuries.

-3 points
0
3
LeotisHarris's picture

November 02, 2023 at 09:44 pm

Indeed Starr did! Drafted Campbell out of Cal when Dickey was 32 years old. Hmmm...

I understand your point.

2 points
2
0
Johnblood27's picture

November 05, 2023 at 11:30 am

Dickey was 32 in an era when QBs actually got hit - a LOT!!

It's not the years, it's the miles... and Dickey traveled a lot of tough ones.

0 points
0
0
mnbadger's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:07 pm

for f _ _ k sake stkholdr, let it go!
He's gone!
So is Brett Favre, Bart Starr, Zeke Bratkowski, Paul Hornung, Curly Lambeau, etc. etc, etc.
Maybe we should have held onto Randy Wright?
He really would have gelled with mlf and this group of receivers.
He was great at getting his ass whipped while running poorly designed plays, having receivers drop balls and run bad routes.
GPG!

7 points
10
3
Grandfathered's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:30 pm

Vintage 72' Scott Hunter would have meshed with the rookies. or Jerry Tagge.

0 points
0
0
bottlefliper's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:48 pm

AR represents everything whats wrong in the world. An egomanic flatearther who blames eyerone around him and never takes any responsibility. He thinks he is always the smartest person in the room, even if he ask idiots for advice. Rodgers thinks he is strong, even he is so weak and afraid of everything from planes to science. He treats people worse because of his unsercure fragil ego.
If its Kelce, MLF or Gute who are way more Packer People than him. If Lombardi is the model for Packer People, AR is so far from it like you can be.
As he lost all meaningfull games and throwing all under the bus on his way. So glad he is gone. He wasted my prime on and of the field but know he gone complete batshit crazy. He will be the fastest healer, with dolphine sex and whatever and in the end he will be the slowest.
Love, Gute, Murphy are all way better humans and will end up, like Murphy, with double the tiltles AR got. He may be a better thrower but that makes not up for all his shortcomings as a human being on and off the field.

-3 points
3
6
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 10:31 pm

@bottleflip-

Hard to follow some of your logic but I did try.
I would agree that Aaron has shown a troubling trait; a strong need for attention.

1 points
1
0
calabasa's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:00 pm

Dolphine sex. Yes please.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:33 am

Botlefliper,

AR12 is not a flat earther.

YOU represent everything that's wrong with the world, and if you were to talk your shit in public you'd get KTFO. Or worse.

0 points
2
2
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:27 am

Toure is under utilized. #33 is under utilized.

Add these to MLF failures.

2 points
2
0
Cheezehead72's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:22 am

It would be interesting to see this team if Adams was still here. I believe keeping Cobb and Lewis would have helped the development of these young receivers.

-1 points
1
2
T7Steve's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:30 am

It would have taken longer by taking snaps from them and 1st team reps in practice, wouldn't it?

They also wouldn't have been able to keep as many.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:49 pm

Lewis maybe, but as a protector mostly

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 02, 2023 at 07:18 pm

They kept Tyler Davis to be the blocking wedge. He performed Better than Lewis last season. He was injured pre-season, so that's the way the ball bounces. LaFleur should run more fast-paced, Air Raid play sets and try to Score Points right out of the shoot. They have not established the run in decades.

2 points
2
0
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:41 pm

@ CH72-
Cobb is clogging the roster on the Jets and the fans are at the boiling point.
I think he has something like 20 yards after being targeted 12 times.+++drops.
WR coaches are there to develop. Only currently successful players should be developing players.If Cobb and Lewis wish to apply for assistant coaching positions, more power to them.
The Jets are paying Cobb millions to be an 'assistant WR coach' & Rodger's BFF.

4 points
5
1
dblbogey's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:47 pm

I loved Randall and what he did for the Packers, but he's been done for at least 4 years. Jets got him to make Arod happy, not because they thought he was still a good player.

1 points
1
0
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 09:32 pm

Cobb was out last week-if he returns as slot receiver against the Chargers on the 6th, I think fans will swarm the field.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:40 am

Te, definitely. Big Dog, definitely. His contribution this year would have been invaluable! While I love Cobb, it's possible that he's past his expiration date, and a loss in terms of taking reps from young guys who need them. Have Cobb and Reed go head to head ...

Toure getting so little opportunity makes no sense to me. There's serious WR talent on the PS!

1 points
1
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:36 pm

Toure was on the active roster last week.

0 points
0
0
TarynsEyes's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:36 am

Like young kids in school, the teacher instructs them how to learn and remember the time's table. It then becomes the responsibility of the child to remember what they have been taught. There is no excuse for these young receivers to not know their routes, or the time's table. Blame the teacher or coach all one wants, but don't ignore the student's failings, whether by a cavalier approach, or simple lacking of mental retention.

7 points
11
4
PackerBO's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:15 pm

Spot on Taryn, I am tired of hearing they are young. Just know and do your job!!!

2 points
5
3
Coldworld's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:47 pm

Teachers are not born equal any more than the students. Good ones are the ones that get results from all not just hope and trust to a good outcome from going through the motions. When it’s not working across the board, don’t look to the students but the tutors. The more so the longer the absence of improvement continues.

4 points
7
3
TarynsEyes's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:12 pm

Both teachers and students can just go through the motions. Some fans and assumed analyst are like parents who refuse to see or accept it's the kids.
Some kids will never get Algebra, and some teachers shouldn't be teaching it. Can't just point the finger at one or the other. It's likely a lost of interest on both parties.

Mike McDaniel is close to looking like the least motivational speaker at his pressers, but whatever he does behind the scenes works. MLF is a close second, and whatever he's doing isn't working. I don't see or hear much motivation from the players in GB. Sorry, but Nixon saying he feels sick to his stomach with the Rasul trade doesn't cut it. Nor was the preseason, standard required support for Love. I think this team knew it was over and were happy for the Bears being the opener. From there, the moral, make believe moral, was downhill.

3 points
5
2
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:49 am

Absence of improvement is not improvement of absence. Wait, what? Lol.

The great teacher who can adjust their teaching style to every student's learning style and get consistently great results across the board is RARE. It's possible that the current staff is effective with somebody, but it's established fact that they are NOT effective with this roster.

Bakh should be putting on a clinic to the entire O line room, on fundamentals. His are EXCELLENT! Footwork, body position, and hands might translate to pass rushers in which case LVN would benefit tremendously.

Not doing that is yet another failure of coaching.

0 points
1
1
jannes bjornson's picture

November 02, 2023 at 07:23 pm

Jefferson was a greenhorn who made ALL PRO as a rookie. Maybe Addison does the same? Players, not Plays.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:43 am

Analogies aside, coaches have the responsibility to bench players who refuse to follow instructions, in favor of those who will. On both O line and WR, there is depth to do that. Coaches aren't doing that, therefore this is 100% on coaches. The fact that they tolerate it is equivalent to them actively teaching it

It's poison to any team. It HAS to be cut out, like cancer. Because it spreads.

1 points
1
0
Lare's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:58 am

It appears Gutekunst is drafting players with relatively high RAS, but relatively low IQ.

9 points
11
2
Since'75's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:39 pm

I found this nugget on the web, not sure if true or not but…..

Reporter: Jordan, thanks for joining us.
Love: Anytime, i’m the face of the Green Bay Packers now.
Reporter: Jordan, what would you tell all the Packer fans disgruntled with this team, some telling the team to tank the season to draft a blue chip QB.
Love: I’d tell them to R-E-L-A-X
Reporter : Is that it?
Love: Hey, it’s worked before right?
Reporter, Ok but, how do you feel about fans wanting a new QB, do you feel they lost faith in your talents?
Love: My work speaks for itself. I can make all the throws, read defenses, go through my progressions, i’m mobile and dangerous, and my teammates have faith in me. They said so last off season.
Reporter: What is the one thing you are capable of doing that could alleviate the concerns of Packer fans.
Love: That’s simple, how does run the table grab you?
Reporter: Thank you for your time Jordan, it’s been enlightening.
Love: Thanks, i’ll probably run into you again soon at the Pro Bowl, or the MVP award ceremony, maybe both.

-7 points
0
7
Packerpasty's picture

November 02, 2023 at 02:51 pm

certainly very much not true but good for a laugh anyway...this Love lad will never be an all pro...

-3 points
2
5
Since'75's picture

November 02, 2023 at 04:34 pm

Lol...well Packerpasty, not everyone enjoys a lil humor in their life it seems 😦
Somebody at home or work is sayin...."HEY..dat ain't funny man!!!"
Thumbs down....BOOM!!! lol

I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings 😜
I'd like to take this time to apologize.
But....that ain't happenin 😲

-4 points
0
4
Since'75's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:45 am

I know people, i know!! 😢

I get sad sometimes also 👶🏻🍼

I wish i could give you all a big hug and make it all better 😮

Lets put on our big boy pants and try to learn how to smile 😄

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:40 pm

el·lip·sis

noun

An ellipsis, or ellipses in the plural form, is a punctuation mark of three dots (. . .) that shows an omission of words, represents a pause, or suggests there's something left unsaid.

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:54 am

75,

obviously that's fiction, maybe created by you.

It's incredibly low to try to pass it off as a quote. Why aren't you above that?

0 points
1
1
Since'75's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:54 am

Incredibly low!!!

Hopefully i don't get arrested?

Lighten up Francis, obviously it's a parody.

What is an example of parody?
A parody is a form of humor that spoofs — or satirizes — something using the same form.
Did that help?

Does anyone need tissues? 😲

1 points
1
0
Since'75's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:40 pm

Wyatt' and Walkers Wonderlic scores of 8 and 9 might have given that away 👍

-1 points
2
3
Coldworld's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:54 pm

Or not. That test sucks as a predictor of footballers. You can tell
More from a brief chat. Marino was poor, so was Bradshaw and they were QBs. The only position where there has been an even tenable argument for a correlation. I think McNabb at 5 was the worst of a good QB.

If Walker is that challenged, Barry is worse for giving him the Radio helmet.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:56 am

Does Wonderlic test intelligence?

0 points
0
0
dblbogey's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:49 pm

It appears MLF does the same when selecting his coaching staff.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:51 am

Lare,

while it does appear that way, NFL testing is pretty good at rating intelligence. I doubt Gutey ignores that.

1 points
1
0
packerbackerjim's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:01 pm

Responsibility for the ineptitude of the WRs and TEs is found in at least one of 3 sources: Gute for drafting guys who can’t separate or fight for the ball AND/OR Vrable who can’t coach them to run the correct routes or come back for the ball instead of planting their feet on their spot AND/OR the players who lack talent to do any of the above. I see rookies on other teams (Addison, Nacua, Flowers) have few such problems.

7 points
7
0
mnbadger's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:09 pm

you left out play design and timing of the play call. you can't ignore the failings of the hc.
GPG!

5 points
5
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 02, 2023 at 02:09 pm

Man. I think our tight end is magnificent, he runs like a gazelle. He's really young, he's massively talented, the only thing to me that he lacks is the patience of the fan base...

2 points
2
0
packerbackerjim's picture

November 02, 2023 at 09:22 pm

It’s about the execution of the play that is called. What should/could be called is another discussion.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:58 am

Vrable.

These are teachable skills. In week one being a rookie isn't an excuse, although there will still be rookie mistakes. This is no longer attributable to rookie mistakes, this is coaching. Or lack thereof.

2 points
2
0
SinceLombardi's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:08 pm

It will be upsetting the next time Watson is out with an injury… and the company line will be,Love doesn’t have all his weapons.
Note: to be a deep threat you actually have to get open and catch the ball. Sometimes even fight for it.
Perhaps he could watch the video of Alexander trying to cover Jordan Addison, for some tips.

6 points
8
2
HarryHodag's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:09 pm

Lets examine one other possibility: the Packers coaches lack the ability to adjust the offense to the players. The true West Coast Offense uses short quick passes to open receivers. What I've seen are many passes in the 10-20 yard range. If you complete a 5 yard pass on first down your chances of making a first down improve greatly. Here's the Packers offense--run for one yard, run for one yard, throw an incomplete pass of 20 yards then punt. I can see that. Think the defensive coordinators don't see that?

One other curiosity is the lack of short passes to the tight end(s). It seems the passes that happen are deeper where Love certainly lacks Rodgers accuracy. Solution: short passes. It also brings the safeties up that would enable a deeper pass.

I put much of the blame on the offensive game plan. Regression is solidly on the coaches.

11 points
13
2
calabasa's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:01 pm

And on the line, which sucks.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:01 am

Harry -

exactly!

This too all comes under "fundamentals." Fundamentals for a HC, but incredibly basic stuff here. Complete failure at the position, because it never changes.

2 points
2
0
splitpea1's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:23 pm

The one thing for certain is that there are not enough plays being called to scheme receivers open; I watch other teams do it with frequency; yet the apparition of the the McCarthy-esque approach lingers on here.

Contested catches were not a problem for either Watson or Doubs last season, and Reed was very good at it in college. That suggests accuracy and timing issues from the QB might be in play here, along with poor play design. No excuses for all the drops, though, especially in critical times.

So we continue to look for real (actually, any) progress in all aspects of the passing game. There's not much to say except that all parties involved need to get a whole lot better in the second half of the season.

7 points
7
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:06 pm

I respectfully offer that you actually review the McCarthy offense. It appears to me that Dallas gets receivers open with frequency. Enough with the McCarthy hatred, this shitshow belongs to Matt LaFleur, and his cohort of bad assistants.

9 points
9
0
Coldworld's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:05 pm

I agree with you, but I suspect the reference was to 2017, by which point our roster was a laughing stock after Ball had been standing in for TT for 3 years as subsequently became known.

Why you’d let an accountant stand in for a personnel guy (with the plan being to make him GM it transpired) while other personnel guys were hired away to be (true TT-style) GMs is a question I’ve really never seen Murphy grilled on.

4 points
5
1
splitpea1's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:35 pm

It was.

0 points
0
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 02, 2023 at 05:05 pm

with all due deference, 2017 was the high point of Rodgers mutiny, tough to run an offense when the point man keeps changing the plays to "go get open"

0 points
3
3
LeotisHarris's picture

November 02, 2023 at 07:50 pm

"Why you’d let an accountant stand in for a personnel guy (with the plan being to make him GM it transpired) while other personnel guys were hired away..."

This has always been interesting to me. Ball does not have a finance or accounting background. He holds degrees in Exercise Physiology from Central Missouri, and Human Performance from the University of Missouri.

His road to "Cap Guru":

U of Missouri (1982–1989)
Head strength and conditioning coach

Kansas City Chiefs (1989–1996)
Assistant strength and conditioning coach

Kansas City Chiefs (1997–1998)
Administrative assistant to the head coach

Minnesota Vikings (1999–2000)
Senior football administrator

Washington Redskins (2001)
Director of football administration

New Orleans Saints (2002–2005)
Senior football administrator

New Orleans Saints (2006–2007)
Vice president of football administration

Green Bay Packers (2008–2017)
Vice president of football administration/player finance

Green Bay Packers (2018–present)
Executive vice president/director of football operations

HIs remarkable transformation to "Cap Guru" must have taken place in 2005 when he was selected by the Saints to attend the 2005 NFL Managers Program at Stanford University's Executive Education Graduate School of Business.

HIs Packers bio lists his many duties. Seems like he was in the right place at the right time and someone thought "uh, I bet Russ could to that. He knows how to fill out a 424-A, and can even build his own spreadsheets!"

https://www.packers.com/team/front-office-roster/russ-ball

3 points
3
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:00 pm

The guy is even using pivot tables. The agents never know what hit them...

0 points
0
0
BAMABADGER's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:42 pm

Yikes, another FO managerial red flag.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:19 am

Leotis,

this is another fascinating aspect of the dysfunction at 1265 I never looked into. It almost looks like Mr We Are Not Idiots is incompetent. And his entire plan is failing, miserably.

Why can't the Executive Directors see this?

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:13 am

I don't want to see MM grilled, burned at the stake would be preferable.

In Titletown.

0 points
1
1
mnbadger's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:12 pm

The progress and effort are the reasons I'll continue to watch.
The only thing that will stop me is if three games from now we still haven't changed anything or gotten any better at what we're currently trying to do.
GPG!

3 points
3
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 02, 2023 at 10:52 pm

Tempting. But I'm watching every second I can. One way or the other we all will finally know what we have , and exactly who must go. Going to be some holiday season!

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:23 am

Ho ho ho, here's your #1 pick in the draft ...

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:15 pm

Oh thank you Santa.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:21 am

If I had the option of watching Chiefs Dolphins instead of Packers Rams, it would be very difficult to choose to watch 0 changes from MLF. Three games ago there was still a chance he might adjust ...

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:11 am

SP,

re: progress, it's decidedly absent, across the board. The very best that can be said is if certain players haven't regressed.

This is one of the most horrible indictments on coaching staff possible. Others are the clock mismanagement and timeout problems of MLF, concluding he's simply not an NFL caliber HC.

Even drops are attributable to coaching at this point. Had every WR spent over 2 hours on just catching the ball, every day since the first OTA, there wouldn't be so many drops. Although JL10 not hitting targets in stride is certainly a factor there.

Coaches are supposed to bench individual players long before problems persist to this extent, and at WR and O line there's depth to do so. Utter failure of coaching.

3 points
3
0
Lphill's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:28 pm

seems more of a coaching issue like just about every other position, maybe the Packers are tight wads when it comes to these salaries .

3 points
4
1
Bitternotsour's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:08 pm

is there a study somewhere that indicates the packers under pay assistants? I think Bisaccia is one of the highest paid special teams coaches in the NFL. I don't think I've ever heard that the Packers cheap out on salaries. MLF is certainly heavily compensated.

-1 points
1
2
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:23 am

MLF is overcompensating ...

0 points
0
0
CoachJV's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:50 pm

We should bring in an aging vet...even though they might be mediocre. The knowledge and example set would help serve the growing process. Seeing the study habits and the practice habits and the work they put in would be worth a Veteran minimum salary.

1 points
2
1
HarryHodag's picture

November 02, 2023 at 12:58 pm

They did that last year with Sammy Watkins.

4 points
4
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:10 pm

Exactly. They also had Marcedes Lewis.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:24 am

Why cut Mercedes Lewis then?

1 points
1
0
jhtobias's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:00 pm

We can complain all we want but two things are certain since stenovich was promoted to offensive oc the line has regressed for year and a half and the offense even with rodgers last year regressed .

Great organization fix the problem bad organizations keep making excuses . Defense same thing going on three years.

Until coaches in this organization are held accoubtable or if gute cant draft nothung will change. Please feel free to debate this.

9 points
10
1
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:46 pm

You are right-there is zero accountability and all of them scratch each other's backs.
I predict the Packers will tinker around the edges but my guess is there will be years and years of mediocrity while they waste money on the wrong players, coaches, schemes, etc.

Fans need to have a major hissy fit and upend this mess.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

November 02, 2023 at 03:12 pm

The person with overall accountability should, by his own admission, be Murphy. He’s the only one with oversight of player acquaintances, contracts, and all things coaching.

The problem is we also know that there is no one able to remove him outside of a bunch of his appointees of whom 90% know little about football except and whom he chairs when they meet.

3 points
4
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:30 am

Fans can't upend this mess. Executive Directors can!

Can they be bombarded with said hissy fit?

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:28 am

JH,

I'll debate the notion that Gutey can't draft. He's improved. I even defended him up until he threw away Rasul Douglas for nothing at all, and publicly called it an offer that was too good to pass up.

He's tone deaf to human nature. He told everybody on the roster that no matter how well they play, they're trash.

Add to that the way he handled Rasul.

0 points
1
1
Since'61's picture

November 02, 2023 at 01:57 pm

One receiver struggling among the receiving corps you can suspect the receiver is the issue. But in the Packers case all of the receivers are struggling. To me that’s on the coaches. Yes, they are all young and inexperienced but I would expect at least one or two of them to be evolving in their roles by now especially the second year guys.

The other possibility is that all of these guys were over drafted by Gute by I doubt it. The only way we’re going to see what these receivers have is if they play with a different receivers coach and with other offensive coaches in a different offense.

Right now it looks like no one is competent among the coaches or the players. Total cluster fxxk. Thanks, Since ‘61

8 points
8
0
Packerpasty's picture

November 02, 2023 at 02:52 pm

these WR's arent good enough to constantly have to adjust and try to catch a pass that doesn't hit them in stride...behind them, too high, too low...etc...

3 points
4
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:31 am

JL10 hitting them in stride would certainly help.

2 points
2
0
Packerpasty's picture

November 02, 2023 at 02:53 pm

Dont worry everybody , the Pack will win Sunday and we can take a short break in the criticism...."short" the key word...

-2 points
2
4
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:32 am

I'm not a betting man, but I'm not sure this team could beat a wet noodle without JB and MLF finding a way to lose. They seem pretty determined ...

1 points
1
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:40 pm

el·lip·sis

noun

An ellipsis, or ellipses in the plural form, is a punctuation mark of three dots (. . .) that shows an omission of words, represents a pause, or suggests there's something left unsaid.

0 points
1
1
ricky's picture

November 02, 2023 at 04:12 pm

If the entire offense, from the OL to the TE's, RB's, WR's and QB are all regressing, perhaps it is time to look at whether it is the players who suddenly have forgotten how to play, or whether the coaching is not bringing out their best. Why is this happening over the entire offense at the same time? Because at this point in his career, Love should be a complementary player, not the guy that is supposed to lead the entire team and win games on his own. The injury to Jones seems to be a key, since he was always a threat to score from anywhere on the field. Without him, it's Dillon crashing into the middle. Again and again. And yet again. The coaches should be looking at what Love does well, design the game plan around those strengths, and then work on areas of weakness to improve his overall game. The coaching staff should be on the cutting block right now, with an internal warning that if the team doesn't start showing improvement, they could be selling insurance next year. But to put all the pressure on Love, and then expect him to overcome all the other problems of the team, plus working on his own shortcomings? Time to spread the blame, and everyone takes a long look in the mirror, and work on becoming better at what they do.

5 points
5
0
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 08:10 pm

Who would actually follow through and fire MLF or Gute? Murphy likely won't want to bring in a good coach who will command autonomy and a good paycheck.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:35 am

This is why MM is the problem, and apparently only the Executive Directors can address that. They need to! Can they be bombarded?

0 points
0
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:02 am

Well written Ricky and agree!

0 points
0
0
Rebecca's picture

November 02, 2023 at 04:17 pm

I’m patient with the young squad, not so much for the rest of the organization. If one is invited to be a member of the Packers one ought to thank their luck and work their asses off. Same with the coaches.

4 points
4
0
Vachio's picture

November 02, 2023 at 04:47 pm

The lack of improvement across the board is a big concern. Name one position group where the team is more fundamentally sound this year compared to last year. Name one position group where the team is more fundamentally sound right now as compared to preseason. Can we even name a single player who is more fundamentally sound this year compared to last year or more fundamentally sound now than they were during preseason? Maybe Tom and Gary. No one else comes to mind, though.

8 points
8
0
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 08:17 pm

Rasul.

4 points
4
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:37 am

Got to cut him then!

2 points
2
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:06 pm

Could be Nijman,Wilson, Ford,etc but we may never know til even next year, maybe some will be on other teams. If it starts becoming a total shit show and we actually begin utilizing them I bet it will be almost all at once. And surely it's more likely someone wil get hurt . What mismanagement. What coaching. What a disaster. Doesn't the captain know there are icebergs right in front of them. Just got to ride it out I keep telling myself.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:37 am

That's 100% on coaches. It's the clearest indicator of coaches failing I can imagine.

2 points
2
0
relleum61's picture

November 02, 2023 at 06:56 pm

The "Standard"...Sharpe to Brooks...Brooks to Freeman...Freeman to Driver...Driver to Jennings/Nelson...Nelson to Adams. Adams traded. Cobb/Lazard/Lewis tried to hand off to Watson/Doubs/Toure, but did not have time to get all the lessons/examples home. Coaching is important, but the example one gets from your proven peers may be more important. When Adams was traded, the standard was lost. Hence no improvement this year. The receivers on the roster have talent. Which one will be the on to re-establish "the Standard?" Which one has the drive and determination to be "the Standard?" Or do we have to draft Harrison, Jr. with a #1 and hope he has the pedigree to begin a new line of "the Standard" that ended with Adams?

4 points
4
0
NFLfan's picture

November 02, 2023 at 08:12 pm

I don't think the Packers have that young standard-bearer.

1 points
1
0
calabasa's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:04 pm

My recollection is the new receivers were too busy trying to decode the hidden hand signals from AR12 to learn from Randall Cobb…

-2 points
1
3
Tundraboy's picture

November 02, 2023 at 11:12 pm

Great point. And that is why we must draft Harrison. Must be all in. Could be Lofton like, and we can then follow that up with 2 OL, a coaching overhaul and I'm good.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:46 am

Coaching overhaul needs to come first! I sure don't want Gutey handling this next draft.

Interior O linemen are a priority need. Preseason had everybody saying S was a need. DBs are a bigger need now.

That said, MHJ will improve whatever team he winds up on. That's a generational talent you don't pass up. Can you imagine Prime's Son on the same team with him?!?

2 points
2
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:05 pm

If only they had a brain!

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:41 am

Reed is currently the closest we have to the standard, with Wicks not far behind. If MHJ is available when our pick comes up, that's a generational talent you simply can't pass up.

2 points
2
0
Matt's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:19 am

1. Keeping Rodgers woudln't help much. He didn't want to be a part of rebuild, he doesn't like to play with rookies and medicore players and with him on board we couldn't allow elite receivers.
2. Keeping our veterans wouldn't help much. Who was a good receiver? Most of fans called Lazard WR3, Cobb is ranked as the worst receiver in the NFL in 2023. What happened to Tonyan after his injury makes me think that in 2020 it was his more athletic twin playing (who doesn't exist). Lewis was not a receiver at all, at least last 5 years.
3. Like some say - everything starts with O-line. Nobody suggests this is responsible for ALL the problems, but without solid line you can't get far. Our current O-line limits the improvement of the young squad and doesn't give us a fair judgement.

2 points
3
1
Tundraboy's picture

November 04, 2023 at 06:50 pm

"1. Keeping Rodgers woudln't help much. He didn't want to be a part of rebuild, he doesn't like to play with rookies and medicore players and with him on board we couldn't allow elite receivers."

Which is why I've no regrets and why I'm sick of hearing people saying we didn't do enough for Rodgers. Increasingly over time to actually do enough for Rodgers required Rodgers taking less money and he never ever contemplated that. Done with the poor poor Aaron nonsense. Look at Brady. Just one salary adjustment could have allowed us to acquire a critical player in one of those 7or 8 years.

1 points
2
1
RobinsonDavis's picture

November 12, 2023 at 03:09 pm

Get the ball high to your receivers!! Go PACK!

0 points
0
0