Packers Draft: The Perfect First Round Fit for Green Bay

Georgia tight end is a perfect Packers draft pick.

First-round draft picks have been difficult to predict in the Brian Gutekunst era, but if you want to get involved in the guessing game in 2023, there is one player that stands out.

Georgia tight end Darnell Washington fits the mould perfectly as a player the Packers could take in the first round this April, whether they are picking at 13 or 15. Here are several reasons why:

He’s a unicorn

Gutekunst has a penchant for using high picks on players who are simply different from the vast majority of prospects who roll through the draft each year.

That usually means players who have freaky athleticism. If they are big dudes, even better. Rashan Gary, A.J. Dillon, Eric Stokes, Quay Walker, Devonte Wyatt, Christian Watson. All crazy athletes with great size, drafted to Green Bay in the first two rounds.

Washington passes that test, measuring in at 6’7” and 264lbs., he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.64 seconds and also completed the 20-yard shuttle time in a faster time than any wide receiver in the class except for Jaxon Smith-Njigba.

Players who are as big and athletic as Washington do not come along every year, and that is exactly the type of profile Gutekunst loves.

“His best football is ahead of him”

This is a phrase Gutekunst has often said after drafting players, and it is something which is clearly important to Green Bay’s general manager.

He has often shown little regard for college production in favour of how he projects the player will develop. Gary only had 9.5 sacks over three seasons at Michigan when the Packers selected him 12th overall ahead of Brian Burns, who had 10 sacks in his final college season alone.

Remember that when you look up Washington’s college stats to find he only had 774 receiving yards in his college career. This will not deter Gutekunst if he believes Washington can become a legitimate receiving weapon in the future.

He fills a specific need

The Packers do not draft for need in a basic sense, but in previous drafts, they have used top 100 picks on players they believe can play a very specific role. Dillon in the second round as a bruising power back and Josiah Deguara in the third as a tight end/H-back spring to mind.

Green Bay’s head coach Matt LaFleur needs multiple tight ends who excel in different areas. One of those is a Y tight end who can play on the end of the line of scrimmage and block, as Marcedes Lewis has been doing in recent years.

Tight ends who are excellent blockers are hard to come by, and if Lewis retires or joins Aaron Rodgers in New York, the Packers will have no viable option to replace him in the short-term through free agency.

It is rare for a tight end to enter the league as a truly dominant blocker, but Washington is just that. If you want to have a good laugh, watch the other tight ends in this draft class try to push the blocking sled at the combine, then watch Washington.

LaFleur loved Lewis and it is safe to assume he will have fuzzy feelings for Washington, too. He would fill an extremely valuable role in Green Bay’s offense for years to come.

People will say the Packers “reached”

Another feature of Gutekunst’s early picks has been drafting players earlier than they were projected to be selected.

Gary, Dillon, Stokes and Walker are examples of the Packers taking players earlier than expected. Gutekunst has shown he has a bit of a different board than most GMs.

There are some who believe Washington is a first rounder, especially since he blew up the NFL scouting combine, but many will view him as more of a mid-round pick based on his limited production as a pass catcher.

Taking him at pick 15 on PFFs Mock Draft Simulator will earn you an ‘F’ grade for that selection, and it is fair to say that does feel a bit rich for Washington, but do not expect Gutekunst to care.

The only problem…

Tight end is not a premium position, which is the key argument for why the Packers may not select Washington in the first round. Green Bay has not taken a tight end in the first since Bubba Franks in 2000.

However, few would have expected the Packers to take an off-ball linebacker with their first pick a year ago, another position which is not deemed to be premium.

While this is not proof the Packers will ultimately draft him, they recently hosted Washington on a pre-draft visit, which would indicate at least some level of interest.

Washington is a prime candidate to be selected by Green Bay on Thursday, April 28. His truly unique profile, coupled with his age – Washington turns 22 in August – just screams ‘Packer’. Did I mention he went to Georgia?

 

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Mark Oldacres is a sports writer from Birmingham, England and a Green Bay Packers fan. You can follow him on twitter at @MarkOldacres

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Comments (159)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
goal74's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:30 am

Yes, maybe he's all of that. But should we draft a TE in the first round? Do they even want to do so? Not so sure...

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packerfan2554's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:50 pm

They need a edgerusher also. Say we get #13 pick from Jets. Trade that pick to Saints or Jags or NEW York. Then use the pick in the 20s and get Washington and also a pick in the 40s and use pick 15 and get DE Van Ness from Iowa.

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PatrickGB's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:44 am

Nice write up. I am not a draft guy. I only follow what others have said. But, yes I like the guy. But picking him in the mid first round does seem like a stretch. The history of TE’s taken in the first round has been mixed.

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BradHTX's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:36 am

Ordinarily I agree with you on this point, and I’ve expressed it in the past. Not only is the history of TEs taken in the 1st mixed (I mean, it is for all positions), the reverse is true as well: the greatest TEs have been taken at all points in the draft.

Washington is the outlier for me. I think his combination of size, speed and agility is so unique, he really is a unicorn. If you see a guy sitting there at #15 and you think he really has a better shot than most of being the next Tony Gonzalez, you take him, regardless of the F you get from the drafniks.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:49 am

He is a hell of a player & should the Packers draft him in round 1 (almost certainly not going to be available at #42 - #45) I certainly would not have a problem with it. He needs more experience running routes & receiving where I think he could improve at this skill in the next couple of years.

Everything comes down to whether the Packers get the #13 to go with their #15 pick. That extra pick allows so much more flexibility whether to draft an explosive offensive player (WR - TE - RB) with the other second pick in round 1. Drafting Washington would go a long way to improve the offense, but would still require the team to find and draft one or two skilled players on offense to help Jordan Love.

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Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:30 am

He’s a good blocker and a true outlier in terms of athleticism and build, but he hasn’t yet shown he can put that all together in terms of offensive production—he wasn’t the lead TE in his offense. He’s a potential over production guy at this point. With the value of his blocking and us looking to regroup as a team, I’m in favor of gambling on him, but I think he is a late first round pick to early second. He’s somewhat similar to Watson in terms of valuation for me.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:47 am

CW, you have to remember who was the receiving TE for Georgia for the past two years: Brock Bowers. Bowers is probably the best college TE I've seen in my entire lifetime!
Despite Bowers presence (along with some very good RBs and WRs), Washington got a LOT of playing time.
I don't consider Washington a "gamble" at all.

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LLCHESTY's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:31 am

Bowers is 225 lbs. He and Washington might as well be playing different positions.

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Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:48 am

That fact is pretty relevant to why Washington wasn’t a major focus of the passing game. But the fact remains, despite the plausibility of the reason why he wasn’t asked to do much, he has not yet shown that he can. There’s the element of risk.

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Savage57's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:50 am

As you point out, but then rationalize, the problem isn't drafting Washington. It's using #15 to do so. If the Packers like Washington, trade down to the bottom of the 1st, top of the 2nd, where his value fits, and reap some utility for doing so.

Or, stand pat at 15, and cross your fingers until your knuckles turn white that Paris Johnson, Jr. falls that far.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:08 am

Savage, I think the problem with Washington is that he is going to be a very difficult player to figure out where he might go (at least to me) as I could see him going anywhere from say #15 to say #36. I think the unknown is just how well he might develop as a receiving TE as he didn't get a lot of opportunity in college. Going to really depend on how much value teams put on his blocking with his potential upside as a receiver.

Agree one can never have too much talent on the OL in the NFL for sure. Paris Johnson, or a Broderick Johnes would look great in green & gold, but unless the Packers move Bachtiari to the Jet's why would you draft a back-up player in 2023 when you have no TE's, need another WR desperately, are down two DL, and need Safety? Just me, but I'd be looking for the best player available at a position or need.......the exception to that rule of course is if a player you had rated so much higher than where they were available that you just felt there was no way you could ignore the player. An example might be Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love, or Gary when the Packers already had the Smith Bros, Brett Favre, and Aaron Rodgers.

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Savage57's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:22 am

I'd rather talk about Ted's giant CF passing on TJ Watt.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:34 am

That was a tough one but jeez....how about the drafting of Bruce Clark, a Rich Campbell, or a Tony Mandarich over say Barry Sanders, or Aikman? Best to keep looking forward! :)

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:57 am

Aikman was already gone, but Barry and Deion Sanders were there.

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jannes bjornson's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:41 am

Johnson, or Jones would not be backup players. They would fill the RT, day one and can transition to the LT spot later on.

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:45 am

Johnson Jr, played LT his entire career. Jones played LT all of 2022. Both players could start at LT if needed.

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jannes bjornson's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:21 pm

That would be their Value if they fall past #14. Secure the right flank and have your LT of the future. Bhak stays another year. Protect Love. Get Better.

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:14 am

Man, Savage. Those are my conclusions exactly. I also have some trepidation in about whether Darnell Washington will make it to the Packers just 10 picks later.

That’s a lot of hype for PFF’s #70 Big Board player. Just knowing that gives me equal pause.

The bigger question is will he give us that much more than TE Luke Schoonmaker, who is projected to be available R3-4?

The intangibles of Washington’s blocking ability, his true Y TE characteristics, along with his athleticism, set him apart to where we all would have a comfort level with him starting Game 1.

The high draft slot seems a full round early.

Not so with Paris Johnson Jr. Nor Broderick Jones. Nor Quentin Johnston.

After sleeping on it last night, there are so many great players to be had in this draft, I’m more inclined to not get too attached to one particular player. Plus, I’m seeing merit to adding pass rush early, where we have none right now, as far as we know.

Maybe Gary comes back, but what if he doesn’t? Preston Smith immune to Father Time? What if Bak is traded? What if GB decides to allow Yosh to leave for more $$$? There’s a chance Gutekunst might wish to hit both LT & RT with clock resets early in this draft.

If the game is truly won in the trenches, and our own OL landscape changes, we may be best served adding LT & EDGE to begin this draft.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:24 am

I find the whole TE position so dynamic & interesting in this draft. You have the top end move TE's in guys like Kincaid, Musgrave, Laporta, who can run and split the seams, but their blocking is marginal. Then you have the blocking in-line TE's where they excel at blocking but lack athleticism getting down the field, separating & receiving. Guys like Washington, Durham, etc! My main point with TE's is the big stiff in-line TE's will 'never' become the smooth route runners, while the faster & more athletic move TE's 'can improve' with time, focus & work to be better blockers.

Which is why Michael Mayer continues to sit there and be undervalued by all of us. His value is versatility and you don't need to draft two separate TE's as you get both the blocking & receiving in one which keeps him on the field all three downs. Feel like he is being ignored and I am as guilty of it like most everyone else. He might surprise us in round 1.

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Lootstone's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:37 am

It's ok, I told Gutey in the last Darnell post to prioritize Mayer/Darnell. He'll see it eventually...

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PeteK's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:37 am

Mayer: 180 Recs and 18 Tds in 3 seasons and can block. He more than doubled the stats of any other receiver on the team, so it's safe to say he didn't go unnoticed by opposing defenses. I agree, go get this player.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:38 am

The PFF board never changes the players ratings post Combine, so I totally disagree with PFF's approximately #70 rating on Washington. He tested very well & stood out from the TE group at the Combine jet rocketing his draft value upwards. In fact, while I still had access to the PFF board I would always trade with second round picks to move up and nab him in round 1.

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:57 am

I don’t know. Washington’s #70 is likely in keeping with his limited receiving resume.

Mayer does seem undervalued. At the same time, I question whether I’m overvaluing both players in discussing the 13/15 selections?

Neither should slot there.

That goes against my drafting religion.

I’ve reminded myself we should be looking at a 2 year window to legitimately fully reload, and maybe we’re trying too hard to visualize getting all the open positions covered in this draft.

Trenches, plural, will likely be our most vital need areas to fill. TE? Yes, a need, but the slot value doesn’t exist there like it does at LT, maybe RT too, along with EDGE, 5-Tech, #1 WR, Safety… ALL of them positions that have phenomenal talents who readily slot that high to warrant a 13 or 15 selection.

We want it all. That’s what makes us true fans. I’m proud to know you all as such.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:42 am

LOL!

It is fun to speculate and then have Gutey show us all wrong. I like fun predicting and I really cannot think of one time being overly upset with Gutey's choices at the time players were drafted. Sure....hindsight is 20-20!

I agree with the statement 'that goes against my drafting religion' as that is exactly how I like to think in round 1 & round 2. I have always wanted the big ole nasties in most years. Offense or defense didn't matter! This year, seems very different to me based on some unique circumstances that are transpiring. I also think this as well....what the Packers have been doing in the draft year after year in the past has not produced the results any of us have wanted even with a generational QB at the helm. I think we all need to think more progressively. Think aboiut what rounds did we drafted Jenkins, or say David Bachtiari? Why the fixation from some that we have to draft an OT in round 1? Square peg in round hole? We will see how 2023 ultimately turns out but I think this is the year the Pack should approach the draft from a different & unique perspective than from past years.

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:41 am

We might see that positionally, but one thing we all can count on in general, Gutekunst fights to make his very best value picks.

Quality.

I’ll remind my friends here in GBs 11 picks in 2022, Gutekunst selected:

7 of Ourlad’s Top 100 Players in Devonte Wyatt, Kingsley Enagbare, Christian Watson, Quay Walker, Zach Tom, Sean Rhyan, Romeo Doubs

We landed 5 of Athlon’s Top 100 players in Sean Rhyan, Devonte Wyatt, Kingsley Enagbare, Quay Walker, Rashaad Walker.

We landed 4 of PFF’s Top 100 players in Wyatt, Tom, Watson and Enagebare.

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dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:22 am

THIS...

A thoughtful reflection on how we get ahead of ourselves around the draft and what the Packers need (and historically do).

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:05 pm

Guilty as charged. I enjoy the discourse & sharing of ideas etc. but, easy to get sucked into one line of thought.

I wouldn’t argue Washington being over drafted too much if they deem that move necessary. I like when people believe in their picks to the core. He most likely can walk onto the field and make an immediate impact as a starter.

Just did a deep dive looking at lower round TEs. Found a couple gems.

You want a good one? Check out Mason Fairchild from Kansas. As good a set of production #s as many, and 2 years consecutively. Probably should have been a Combine invite.

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Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:54 am

Mayer is undervalued because of his testing. He’s slow, has limited explosion or burst. He’s the trap pick type: looks all world in college but in a league populated by the top 1% of college players and athletes, his athletic traits suggest he may struggle to be the same player. Will he or won’t he? There’s the gamble with him.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:14 pm

So agree CW! He concerns me as well ever since the Combine in particular.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:00 am

This morning I see PFF Mock Draft has locked me out from using the website FREE to now asking for an annual membership for something like $70. Are others experiencing the same?

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Savage57's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:21 am

It's Collinsworth's site. Understand he needs the money.

$12.5M salaries just don't go as far today as they once did.

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:32 am

I’ve never used a draft simulator site, and I never will. That’s the only help I can lend…! Lolz

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Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:44 am

I won’t say never, but never seriously and not for a long time. Fun but not terribly helpful and, I think, liable to skew thinking. Stick

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:48 am

Totally agree that many of us if you only use the mock draft boards develop a skewed perspective and it gets one frustrated following the draft. This year, is the first time I have ever used them to kill time and for fun. I still try researching players & watching videos on certain others. The more resources you use the better you become in accurately evaluate a player & line up the cross hairs on players.

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mrtundra's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:11 am

Making money is what the NFL is all about. Anything NFL related, will soon have a paywall attached to it, if it doesn't already have one.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:40 am

Yep, it happened to me too.
No great loss. I don't find it any more reliable than the other sims, though I liked how it had teams offer you trades.

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:23 pm

Yes, but INSANE trades! I recently got offered 2 5ths, a 6th, and a 7th for GB’s 5th (149 overal).

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Lootstone's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:20 am

Must be national Darnell day. For the love of all that is green and gold, at least trade back in the first round if this is our first target.

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dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:27 am

This team has significant need at just about every position group, which means most high prospects are in play at 15.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:31 am

which to me means that high value player at #15 has to almost immediately be contributing from day 1. The luxury of sitting a Jordan Love for three years, or drafting Gary & sitting him extensively the first couple years doesn't make as much sense. The Packers no longer have that luxury IMO.

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dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:45 am

Washington almost certainly plays right away in the Lewis role, and that mitigates his bust potential. I have some hope that the shifting sands on offense will lead to better use of TEs, too, but my hope is that if they're targeting a guy like Washington--who is mostly a projection as a route-runner and pass-catcher--that they can move down to do it.

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:41 am

I like the cut of your jib, sir!

Every year I tell myself not to get hung up on any one player in the draft. But this year, Washington is challenging that notion. If GB believes he can eventually be the next Gronk, they should take him, even if it takes more than one year to achieve that. I’ve been pushing the idea that we’ve got to adjust what we think is GB’s window. Let a young tight end or receiver grow with the young QB.

If they can trade back a little, gain an extra pick and still get him in the mid 20’s, all the better. But if they trade down to 25, and he’s taken at 21, they better have a plan B, and I’m sure they do.

A very common notion I’ve seen many times is “first round tight ends are busts too often”. However, if a tight end is chosen in rd 1, past history does NOT predict future results. That’s like saying “Washington woulda been good, but they took him in rd 1, so he busted. If they woulda taken him in rd 3, he woulda succeeded.” Do you get what I mean?

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:34 am

👍 TK!

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:06 am

Great stuff, TK. I like the honesty, as I’ve gotten myself caught up in both the TE priority discussion and the Washington pick being the one.

And, I knew: Both TE and OT have the lowest bust rates in R1 amongst all position groups. That may have fueled my own desires for the Packers to just go for it at the position this year. However, I’m rethinking that today: trade down to get proper value at the position. Using 13-15 never fully sat right with me.

Personally, I hope we land a draft steal high, at an unexpected position. One worthy of the slot.

Best rounds to take a TE have been R3 and R5…

Here’s a link to what has been a great resource for me over the years:
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tel...

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:26 pm

Thank you, GG!
Another notion is “Gute stinks in rd 3” meaning that WHOEVER is chosen in that round this year is predestined to fail. Know what I mean?

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greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:44 pm

Yeah. I want that shit to end. Bigtime!!! Those are valuable picks.

Jace PTSD is a thing.

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dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:34 am

"That’s like saying “Washington woulda been good, but they took him in rd 1, so he busted. If they woulda taken him in rd 3, he woulda succeeded.” Do you get what I mean?"

If the Packers draft a TE in the first round and his season averages over his career in GB look like this...
31 catches per season
375 yards per season
3 TD per season
...most people will call that TE a first-round bust and a JAG.

Those are Marcedes Lewis' stats in JAX, though, and we know he's been an outstanding blocker--but nobody is going to see blocking stats and think of those in assessing a first round TE. People are going to be looking for high-end receiving numbers, and even if Washington puts up Lewis numbers and is an outstanding blocker, people will sour on him.

Lewis was taken at the bottom end of round 1, though, too.

"I like the cut of your jib, sir"

My jib loves the complements!

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:45 am

Aha! So, you’re saying “bust” is more about perception. Kinda like AJ Hawk: a decent contributor but not the world beater a #5 overall is expected to be! I definitely agree you’ve got a point there!
I was thinking more about being successful vs being out of the league before the rookie deal expires.
As to the jib compliment; I’m back, and you can expect the “jibberish” to flow like the mighty Mississippi!

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:53 am

You may be right as I for one have no idea where a guy like Washington may go. I see him virtually going anywhere in round 1. I do not see him falling to far into the top of round 2. I often think about trading back 4-5 spots in round 1 and try picking up Kincaid at that spot while picking up a late 2nd round, or early 3rd round selection. If Kincaid wasn't available than I'd go with Washington in this scenario.

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LambeauPlain's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:24 am

I agree Knock. This is a great draft for Gutey to trade back into the depth of this draft at TE, CB (assuming Douglas is given potential to emulate Sir Charles Woodson at S) and Edge.

A trade back will get you two very good players who can contribute as rookies.

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dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:38 am

THIS!

I think you hang out at 15 and see what's available when that number comes up--just in case there are some weird circumstances that slide a guy you never expected a shot at to you--but I would be lining up trade-down partners well in advance.

I have the feeling that Washington is a pick 33-35 guy. His limited track record in the passing game may slide him out of round 1, but he's the kind of guy that--when the dust settles after day 1--GMs look at and say they're ready to speculate on early in day 2.

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Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:28 pm

Spot on. We have a lot of holes. If the 15th pick doesn’t offer a premium target on our board, look to slip back. There are a lot of 2nd round types and not many guaranteed 1sts in this draft in my view. If we can get 2 picks for one that may be the value play.

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PhantomII's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:26 pm

I will promise you one thing...SF will move up to disrupt any plan we have since we run similar offense. AKA Deebo and Aiyuk fiascos. SF seems to take great lengths and pleasure out of it. Imagine one or both of those WR's with DA. Whatever we want to do, someone else knows it also. I think Washington definitely fits and a couple other TE's with more film in the pass game. I say we need a couple upper end WR choices to fill the place with top end WR talent that AR has not had since 2017-18 himself.

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WD's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:34 am

A very persuasive argument for taking this TE with our first Pick. We must assume we are not getting the Jets 13th pick. This pick will bolster our rushing attack as well as the passing game. In the second round we should have two picks and must address the Edge/ DL. The freak-beast Adamore from Northwestern could address both positions. Size and speed matters.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:10 am

There are a BUNCH of second-tier EDGEs who might make it to 45; unfortunately, I think quite a few will go between 25 and 40. I think the websites VASTLY underrate where those guys will go. Guys like Keion White, BJ Ojulari, KJ Henry, heck, even YaYa Diaby, might go in the early 2nd round.

I like Ademore, though I prefer Isaiah Foskey. I also like Derick Hall, and it's possible Lukas VanEss, Nolan Smith, or Will MacDonald drop, due to a few question marks.

It's really hard to predict where they will all go, but teams love EDGEs with potential.

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LLCHESTY's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:42 am

I heard Pat Fitzgerald talking about Adebawore on the radio after NW's pro day and he thinks he eventually plays 3T in the NFL at 290-295 lbs. That's a whole lot of athleticism for guards to deal with. For the record he played 261 snaps at 3T, 75 at 5T and 374 snaps at Edge last year. I think teams start him at Edge but it's nice to have options. At the least I think you could stand him up inside like they did with Z.

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MooPack's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:51 am

It's pretty much the same conundrum they had with Watson last year. You take him with your 1st, because he isn't going to be there for your 2nd. I thought the Packers were going to take Watson with one of the 1sts, but Wyatt fell and I think they couldn't pass him up. IMO Gutey lucked out having a trade partner high enough in the 2nd to get Watson, who they were obviously targeting. He may not find someone as stupid as the Vikings this time. Whether the Packers get the Jets #13 or not, I'd could see them trade down a bit in the 1st with their #15 and grab Washington and gain another pick.

4 points
5
1
mrtundra's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:17 am

The vikings screwed the Packers by not trading with them in the 1st round, so they could get Watson and the 5th year option that comes with a 1st rounder.

-2 points
0
2
MooPack's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:38 am

Perhaps, but it didn't hinder the Packers from making the trade anyway. They valued the player more.

Vikings picks with trade (essentially what they ended up with from 53 and 59):
CB Andrew booth at #42. He ended up on IR

G Ed Ingram at #59.
Overall: 57.1 (56th/73)
Pass Blocking: 44.4 (75th/87)
Run Blocking: 63.4 (29th/73)
Pressures Allowed: 58 (73rd/73)
Allowed NFL leading 11 sacks!

I'll take that trade every time.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:13 am

Hey Moo,

You just illustrated why we may not want to wait to hit LT with our top pick, if the right one is there.

Mock draft fluctuations are essentially produced for the NFL draft sim industry, and teams don’t have such wild swings. I think we’ll see their investments in years of scouting holding true to form, and those top OL will remain premium picks.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see both Paris Johnson Jr. & Broderick Jones selected ahead of the 13 pick.

And then…?

1 points
1
0
MooPack's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:56 am

Which is why I think the Pack is holding out for that #13. IMO both the Jets and Packers want an OT with that pick. Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones. Paris may be gone. Jones, I think, will be there. Personally I like Jones as the OT1 in this draft. At least for the Packers. Versatility. Played G and LT and would probably project to RT in Green Bay to begin with. He would be plug-and-play there from the start. 10 year starter, OL are lowest bust rate. Bakh has one year left.

Holding out hope they get the #13 and keep their #15. Take OT Jones at 13 and either take TE Washington with 15 or trade back a bit and still get him. Two Georgia boys playing side by side with much familiarity. Two tremendous blockers. Let's move some people off that line!

1 points
1
0
Tundraboy's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:21 pm

That would be ideal. OT first

2 points
2
0
dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:43 am

Well, they're not in the business of making things easier on division rivals.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:32 pm

If Watson is great, he probably earns a new contract instead of an option. With WR salaries, it’s not such a saving to exercise the option. I don’t see that as a big deal.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:22 am

CBS- has him rated at #60 in their prospect ratings.
(we’ve seen the results when Gutey doesn’t take the best.)
Washington was not included heavily involved in the passing game.
(which shows lack of explosiveness / Separation )
And he can't match Kincaid in that!
There is No doubt he's a threat in the red Zone.
But to take a Threat over a game changer makes
No sense to me At #15.
Especially when some here, wanted to tank the season.

0 points
5
5
BirdDogUni's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:56 am

Daniel Jeremiah has Darnell Washington ranked at #22 overall last time I checked...

Many draft sites don't update their rankings after the combine. (Daniel Jeremiah does.)

5 points
5
0
stockholder's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:06 am

Very true- But the reach is there.
BEWARE OF THE REACH.
I SAY HYPE.

0 points
3
3
jannes bjornson's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:55 am

He's not on my radar. Get the receiving TE and go with the inline guy from rds. 4-6. Remember, he almost blew the Watson selection last April.

1 points
2
1
TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:35 pm

That possibility is always there, yes.
I have a hard time believing that a guy with his athletic traits and some coaching couldn’t eventually be deadly.
I also have to admit that I’m biased against tight ends who are really just big slots. I’m not insane enough to say I wouldn’t be happy with a Travis Kelce type, but I prefer a true dual threat over a tight end whose blocking isn’t at least adequate.
But what does it matter what I think? Gute is definitely on his own agenda. Unpredictable. That is great when it turns out, looks dumb when it doesn’t.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 01:45 pm

Exactly. Dual threat = matchup nightmare. That’s where the TE helps the WRs, confusing the bejesus out of opposing Ds.

3 points
3
0
TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:28 pm

True! Everybody knows that attacking a D that is full of bejesus is dang near impossible. Gotta get that bejesus out somehow! Scare it out, confuse it out, whatever it takes, baby!

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:43 pm

“220. 221…”

Those who know, know.

“Smoke ‘im out!!!”

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:57 pm

Reaching is a no no. Agree. Value. Value is king. Try one’s best to stay away from injuries, stay away from combine freaks with zero - questionable production…

As for Darnell Washington, there are other factors to consider. He wasn’t the featured receiving TE. He was the blocker, and he did have decent return on minimal targets.

Quite possibly the best blocking TE in all of FBS, and a 2-Time National Champion. Rare.

Low draft projections are directly correlated to lack of receiving numbers. Nothing concrete there forcing teams to project.

He’s going to produce immediately as a blocker, which we need, and that production isn’t found on stat sheets.

If he’s the pick, I’ll be excited for the blocking help, and hope he’ll get more shots as a receiver, where I think he projects well with more opportunities as the feature TE, with 16+ yds/rec.

Matchup nightmares are not found in one dimensional in-line TEs.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:43 pm

Washington is going to get drafted because he is a plus blocker AND people see what he could be in the passing game. They will gamble on the reason being usage based on athleticism and what he did when passed to. He’s rather like Gary, not used to rush primarily so many felt he couldn’t. Gute seems right on Gary, some GM is going to take that risk knowing he’s got a potential game changer if he’s right and a useful piece if not.

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:52 am

I agree with your assessments.

I also agree with your sentiment on 15: the Packers aren't used to picking this high (which really isn't all that high) and they don't want to get used to picking this high. This is an opportunity. They need to treat it as such.

5 points
5
0
dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:52 am

Boop!

1 points
1
0
LLCHESTY's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:00 am

So he can't get separation but averaged 16.2 yards a catch while Bowers averaged 15? 🙄

6 points
6
0
Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:37 pm

With that speed and burst, he darn well ought to get separation.

1 points
1
0
Mrbill63's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:15 am

You can all talk about drafting TE or WR till the sun comes up. However, if the QB you have starting is an unproven commodity, you are screwed. And that's what the Packers have currently. Love has really shown zip zilch nada up to this point. Be realistic. You've all watched the preseason games he has started. Looks like an updated version of Randy Wright. QB has to be addressed in this draft. We need to draft a QB early. When #10 bottoms out, we need our bases covered. Prepare for the future and expect the worst. Lafleur and Gutenkust had best hope Love works out. If he doesn't and they don't draft a QB who is capable of starting, it's going to get very ugly and they will both be sitting on the outside looking in.

-7 points
1
8
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:38 am

You easily forget the Packers have seen JL every single practice for 3 seasons. Highly doubt they would trade the face of the franchise if they didn't feel very good about JL. Otherwise, think of the repercussions if JL flopped!

1 points
1
0
Heyward's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:34 am

There's nobody hitting Love in practice, and he's facing a Joe Barry defense. Nobody, including Gutekunst and LaFleur, will know whether Love can play in games until he actually plays in games.

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:53 pm

While I agree on nothing but games giving a realistic test, I’m reminded of how great our D was perceived as going to be for what it did to our first O group, including Rodgers, through camp last year. So many things will be interesting, not merely Love.

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:31 am

So it follows that you derided Aaron Rodgers selection and bemoaned his complete zip, zilch, and nada when he started for the first time after 3 years of riding the pine, right?

Randy Wright? LOL. Randy as an updated version of Jerry Tagge might work for you.

0 points
1
1
dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:00 am

"However, if the QB you have starting is an unproven commodity, you are screwed."

If your unproven commodity turns out to not be able to handle the job, then, yes--you've got problems. You are correct: 10 has very limited game film. If they don't think he can do the job, then it would be malpractice to not draft a QB early if the opportunity is there for a player with a fitting draft grade.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:01 pm

TT did exactly that in Rd 2 (albeit a bust in Brohm) and an extra 7th, Flynn, too despite more tape on Rodgers by that point.

0 points
0
0
PhantomII's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:55 am

Nope. If QB1 falters we get a top pick next year automatically and we proceed like SF did with a playoff team missing a key component and reap the rewards only offered to perennial bottom dwellers to right our ship or sell the pick like the Bears did to fill all the holes with top talent (reload) and give it Hell.

3 points
3
0
murf7777's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:22 am

Since the Packers have in the past been a win now type of team because they have had the franchise QB I wasn’t one to like the idea of trading down. Those in favor would state we have a lot of holes. Well, that is the case with most every team if you took the time to analyze it. Being we are drafting more for the future than since I remember, I’m in favor of trading down and accumulating picks. Start developing players into pro bowl type over the next couple of years.

4 points
4
0
TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:24 pm

Agree! That’s what I mean when I say the “window is shifting”. GB could be in a really good situation if 10 turns out to be…at least “good”, and the cap gets back in shape. But there is no guarantee. And to be overly pessimistic is to take all the fun out of being a fan. Being overly optimistic, well, that’s just not smart either.

They oughta make a website where fans can just share their ideas, opinions, projections…

1 points
1
0
Ferrari-Driver's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:44 am

Washington has size and speed that can't be coached or taught. Here is a short video of Washington's Scouting Combine Workout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sks7xuqZ584

3 points
3
0
Swisch's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:55 pm

Wow!
I'm not a scout, but it seems like Washington may have plenty of skills to not only be a premium blocker, but a premium receiver -- including burst and speed and maybe even quick feet.
I'm wondering what more Washington could have done to show his athleticism for high potential as a receiver to the possibility of being elite.
What other tight ends who have already made it as top receivers in the NFL showed more at such a tryout -- not just in terms of numbers, but in astounding the eye test?
***
It'd be hard to pass on this guy at #15.
He's almost sure to be at least a solid starter at tight end -- perhaps the best we've had in many a season -- but then has the upside of a unicorn to be a pro-bowl performer en route to the hall of fame.
How many guys in this draft as far as pure offensive linemen are better blockers than Washington?
How many wide receivers in this draft are going to be as dangerous catching the ball as Washington?
Who else potentially at #15 has that wow-factor at his position? Why couldn't we wait until days two and three of the draft to fill our other needs?
***
In any case, let's hope the Packers value potential draft picks according to their own evaluations.
Listen to others, but decide for yourself.
Don't be different just to be different, but be willing to be independent in order to set oneself apart.

0 points
1
1
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:56 am

There are three main reasons Darnell Washington is a perfectly good choice for the Packers at 15 (or even 13):

1. He has everything you want in a rookie TE: Size, speed, agility, hands, strength, blocking ability, and lots of experience in big-time games.

2. The cupboard is empty at TE for the Packers.

3. He is right in the wheelhouse of BAP. There simply aren't a lot of top-tier players in this draft. People are mentioning Broderick Jones and Paris Johnson, but they are not "perfect" OT prospects either. They have just as many question marks as Washington. Even Skoronski has major question marks.
Defensively, maybe a top CB or EDGE is there at 15, but all of them also have question marks. Maybe Myles Murphy and Tyree Wilson edge out Washington? No one else.
The only "sure thing" BPA who I think might be there is Bijan Robinson--but that's a tough choice with Jones and Dillon on board (and with a deep RB draft as well).

3 points
5
2
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:16 pm

Great perspective Packeyed!

1 points
1
0
Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:06 am

13 seems like the sticking point. Why don’t the Jets trade 13 for a low/mid 20’s and pick up a 2nd. Swap the 20’s pick to us for Rodgers, and we take the TE?

3 points
3
0
stockholder's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:21 am

Pay Attention to the 3 cone for TEs.
Under 7 is the better pick.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:17 pm

Broad jump and vertical along with the short shuttle are typically more valued for true TEs. The closer one gets to a receiver, the 3 cone comes into play.

The jumps show the ability to extend the catch radius and short area agility, the short shuttle shows burst (acceleration). Fast feet or wiggle of the 3 cone less so for the bigger guys. Nice to have, but not the key metric.

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:17 pm

Doug,
Great idea! 💡

1 points
1
0
LLCHESTY's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:08 am

Traded down twice , picked up 3 4ths and a 2024 2nd rounder.

25.
Darnell Washington
TE Georgia
trade icon

45.
Mazi Smith
DT Michigan

82.
A.T. Perry
WR Wake Forest
trade icon

116.
Emil Ekiyor Jr.
OG Alabama

121
Zach Harrison
EDGE Ohio State
trade icon

127.
Ronnie Hickman
S Ohio State
trade icon

128.
Zacch Pickens
DT South Carolina
trade icon

149.
Jason Taylor II
S Oklahoma State

170.
DeMarcco Hellams
S Alabama

196.
Jalen Moreno-Cropper
WR Fresno State
trade icon

232.
Nesta Jade Silvera
DT Arizona State

235.
Viliami Fehoko
EDGE San Jose State

242.
Josh Whyle
TE Cincinnati

256.
Bumper Pool
LB Arkansas

2024 JAX 2nd

-1 points
1
2
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:17 am

Love Washington, Perry and Whyle, but I think Harrison has BUST written all over him. However, I also thought that about Rashan Gary. :-D (I still prefer my selection of Brian Burns).
Mazi may be the BAP at 45, but boy, he's not a good fit for our needs.

0 points
2
2
LLCHESTY's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:51 am

Really? You don't think stopping the run is important?

0 points
1
1
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 01:08 pm

I do, but he is a NT, not a 5tech. We already have Clark and Slaton. I'd take a chance on a 5tech like Dexter before Smith.

0 points
0
0
PackyCheese500's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:05 pm

Clark can move to DE. We need to let him move all around the DL like the Chiefs do with Chris Jones

0 points
0
0
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:24 am

My last simulation (I picked Mayer over Washington just for variety):

16 TE M Mayer, 45 TE D Washington,
47 ED I Foskey, 97 DL G Dexter,
118 WR A Perry, 171 DL M Morris,
191 S D Scott, 232 OT C Warren, 235
OT N Saldivari, 242 ED L Phelps,
256 DB C Conner

-2 points
0
2
TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 06:24 pm

I just got CJ Stroud at 15.

0 points
0
0
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:33 am

Relative to trading down:

"Why don't the Packers just..." and "I would..."

BECAUSE THE OTHER TEAM HAS TO WANT THAT TRADE TOO

As someone who has followed the draft closely for 50 years,
TEAMS DON'T LIKE TRADING SECOND ROUND PICKS

The exception is when they have targeted a QB; other than that, it's very rare.
Has it happened? Sure. But ESPECIALLY with this years board which has little top-tier and lots of 2nd-tier, it will be VERY hard to find trade partners who will give you two seconds or a late first and a second for pick #15.

6 points
6
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:28 am

Couldn’t agree more.

1 points
1
0
PackyCheese500's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:06 pm

Exactly. This is why I will be happy with two seconds or a first, whichever we get for Rodgers

0 points
0
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 27, 2023 at 11:41 pm

and why not #13, 42, & 43 together?

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

March 26, 2023 at 10:54 am

I have read some NFL personnel guys are increasing the value for Washington because they see him as a better T prospect than a TE. That is a testament to his blocking prowess...and also admitting as a receiving TE, he is a boom/bust player.

Kinkaid (Utah) is the guy with the most tempting talents as a receiving TE. He owns an NFL route tree and is a better blocker and receiver than Tonyan...an upgrade to Big Bob. He is a willing blocker but at Utah he was tasked with route running and then catching virtually any ball near him.

Washington would be Big Dog 2.0. The young man he can block!

Kinkaid, Musgrave, Mayer and Washington would all contribute as rookies. Kinkaid would be my choice. Close call vs the other 3.

0 points
3
3
dobber's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:06 am

I think that Musgrave has the highest bust potential of that group, but I also think Kincaid isn't far behind.

4 points
4
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:23 am

Jace Sternberger PTSD. (Raises hand)…!

3 points
3
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:20 pm

LOL! True!

Not only that but when was the last time we had a 'good' TE?

1 points
1
0
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:02 pm

Hah! GG! I had the same feeling!
I liked Sternberger coming out, and Kincaid has some similar qualities.
I do think Kincaid will be successful, but I definitely feel the shadow of Sternberger lurking…😃

0 points
0
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 12:24 pm

D,
Just curious why you think Kincaid is a bust potential? Hell of a receiver and marginal blocker like most move TE's?

I know Kincaid right now is overcoming a back injury. That will bear evaluation.

Musgrave, I understand your concern as I agree. He also has a potentially high ceiling!

0 points
0
0
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:03 pm

I’ve come to the conclusion, Knock, that a team would be best off playing Musgrave as an X WR.

0 points
0
0
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:59 pm

“Willing blocker” is the descriptor used for ALL below-average blockers at TE. 😃
As far as all of the Big Dog comparisons, I think Washington will be a better player, but he’ll never be the respected leader that Marcedes Lewis is.

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:10 pm

"but he’ll never be the respected leader that Marcedes Lewis is."

Not as a rookie, but I think that kind of blanket statement might not age well, especially if Washington plays 10 - 15 years.

He's married with two little girls, so he's likely to be more mature and assumes a leadership role sooner than many draftees. Every interview I've seen, he's a Dawg, through and through.

4 points
4
0
PackyCheese500's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:07 pm

I think Washington, with his blocking ability, could make an instant impact. The potential is there as a pass-catcher too.

1 points
1
0
TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:30 pm

I plan to plant an NFL route tree in my garden this spring. Once it reaches maturity, I’ll be unstoppable!

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:35 pm

Ooooo. Dayuuuummmmm! That was tight.

Take a burn, BDU!

Lol!!!!! woof!

0 points
0
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

March 27, 2023 at 02:25 am

I believe the planting an NFL route tree remark was a response to Lambeau Plain.

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

March 27, 2023 at 06:08 am

Ha! Wow. That somehow doesn’t surprise me in the least!

Singed.

0 points
0
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 27, 2023 at 11:44 pm

Lambeau,
Kincaid is my #1 pick at TE. Quentin Johnston at WR would be my first overall pick slightly before Kincaid. Ideally, Quentin at #13, Kincaid at #15, and somehow the Packers end up with Washington with a trade up.

From there focus heavily on defense (Edge, DL, & CB....Safety not so much) with another TE somewhere along the way if they did not get Washington. Also, pick up an OT mid-round. This would make me very happy!

0 points
0
0
Pudd's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:21 am

Perfect choice, slows extra production and great receiver for Jorden win win!

-1 points
0
1
Pudd's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:24 am

Has to be best available!

0 points
1
1
splitpea1's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:25 am

This may be the case, but it's best not to get overly attached to any one player because there are variables presenting themselves before and during the draft. Besides, Gute has a penchant for being unpredictable and moving around--like last year when he took two defensive players and then scrambled around to select Watson; and 2020 he took a QB when many fans thought it would be logical to take one of the larger WRs available (Higgins and Pittman were selected at the beginning of the second round).

The bottom line is that the Packers have multiple needs to fill, and although it would be nice to land Washington, there is a range of premium prospects, including TE, that could help this team immensely, both now and in the future. Nothing to do but relax and wait for it all to play out.

1 points
2
1
BirdDogUni's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:44 am

sp1 (Stood for Special Post 1 for me back in the day)

I think I've been guilty of focusing on certain players in each draft for several years. Gutey does like to move around. Too much in my opinion, but it has worked out for him too. Remembering the draft is a crap shoot is tough to do sometimes.

3 points
3
0
greengold's picture

March 26, 2023 at 01:40 pm

Yep. My sickness is in having R1/R2 plans, plus R4/R5 plans for each of our need positions. Whoosh. I like both groups of players. Lol.

0 points
0
0
Heyward's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:29 am

Nobody is drafting Washington at 15. He might go late in the first round.

-2 points
4
6
Pudd's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:38 am

We need blockers, great pass catcher, great red zone help. Washington does it all. Hell given the chance he’s may return punts. The man is not normal, we need that.

5 points
7
2
TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 01:29 pm

If GB is looking for abnormal, I am expecting MY phone to ring as well!

2 points
2
0
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:52 pm

I don’t know about returning punts, but he might be good at blocking them!

0 points
0
0
Swisch's picture

March 26, 2023 at 11:47 am

Keep in mind that perhaps we don't need a tight end who is going to haul in 80 receptions next season -- but when he does make a catch, look out!
Even if Washington becomes a guy capable of hauling in 80 receptions, we might prefer a more diversified attack for the Packers in which he has 50-60 receptions -- but, again, many of those receptions are huge plays for touchdowns in the red zone, or converting key third downs, or rumbling thirty yards downfield with defensive backs littered in his wake.
For the next decade or more, we would have a massive tight end with awesome blocking ability, plus receiving skills that are way above average, perhaps in time bordering on elite, with 500-800 grabs as a Packer.
Some games he may dominate with eight catches, others he may get only one or two -- but in any case, the defense has to allocate major resources to account for him.
Also, he's ready to go day one for major snaps and performing at a high level, while honing his skills over the years as perhaps a perennial pro-bowler.
If it seems Washington has good work habits and personal discipline, and is coachable, it may be worth a #15 for the Packers to do something way different and to go for a premium tight end for the next decade -- see how that goes.
Washington may help to set the Packers apart as a top tight end in an overall illusion of complexity.

0 points
5
5
Swisch's picture

March 26, 2023 at 01:50 pm

Here's a question or three for CHTV fans that seems to be of critical importance when it comes to the decision of whether to draft Washington at #15 (as, it seems, he won't be available to us thereafter):
Does he look like a top pass catcher in the making, but just didn't get used all that much as a pass catcher in college?
Can he contribute significantly as a pass catcher as a rookie (in other words, is not a project), and then continue to improve year after year as a pass catcher?
In his second or third season, will he likely be elite as both a blocker and a pass catcher, or at least on the cusp of being elite in those dual roles?
***
If the answers are all yes, then it seems like a good idea to get this guy at #15, even if he is thought of as pick for later in the first round, or at the beginning of the second round.
Who cares about that if he's right for the Packers?

0 points
4
4
PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:50 pm

Agree, and I think he’s very much a Gute type of pick.

3 points
3
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 27, 2023 at 11:50 pm

Swish,
He seems to have good hands, & while good straight ahead speed I worry about his ability to run routes effectively, and whether he is able to twist his hips and be flexible enough to turn and catch passes. Being the strong & bulky TE for pass blocking tends to neutralize strong route running and receiving. I still think while he will be adequate (very good in red zone) that the Packers need a Kincaid, or a Musgrave, Laporta type as the move TE.

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marpag1's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:20 pm

I would NOT take him at 15. There's no way he's the 15th best player in the draft, and we have plenty of other needs at other positions that are equally pressing or more.

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:33 pm

And that’s where the intrigue and the fun comes in!

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 03:48 pm

“Equally or more” pressing needs? Like what?
We have Smith, Enagbare, and Hollins until Gary returns.
We have Savage, Ford, Douglas, Moore, and Gaines.
We have Bakhtiari, Nijman, Tom, Jones, and even Jenkins.
We have Watson, Doubs, and Toure.

Those are all better/deeper than TE with Davis, DeGuara and Allen.

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marpag1's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:29 pm

Wow.

You need five starters on the o-line. You're listing four guys and... Caleb Jones??? He who has not taken an NFL snap? Is he your 5th guy?

You need two quality safeties, and it's debatable if you even have one?

Is Toure a player? The one who played 10% of the offensive snaps and had 5 catches on the year for 82 yards? And he's your #3 when you need at least 5?

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:03 pm

All of the OTs have shown they can play (I didn’t bother with guards or center) as can Savage and Douglas and Watson and Doubs.

NONE of the TEs have shown they can be an NFL starter.

I want to draft at receiver, safety, and edge too , but tight end is clearly, in my opinion, the most in need of a starter.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 27, 2023 at 11:50 pm

Marp,
Would be nice for you to share whom you think? Seriously! I'd be interested in knowing.

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marpag1's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:12 pm

"He’s a unicorn"

You know who else was a unicorn? Vernon Gholston. Remember Vern? Let's compare Gholston and Washington.

weight: W - 264 G - 266
height: W - 6'7" G - 6'4"
40yrd: W - 4.64 G - 4.68 (one site says 4.65, another 4.58)
10yd split W - 1.57 G - 1.56
vertical W - 31" G - 35.5"
broad W - 10'2" G - 10'5"
bench W - 21 G - 35 (!!)

Yes, I know they played different positions.

Vernon Gholston sucked. But dang, was he a "unicorn."

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TKWorldWide's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:34 pm

Problem w Gholston was the whole “football” thing. Same w Mamula.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 08:12 pm

Gholston “looked like Tarzan played like Jane” in college. Washington has played like Tarzan!

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marpag1's picture

March 27, 2023 at 04:11 am

Gholston “looked like Tarzan played like Jane” in college. Washington has played like Tarzan!

Um... no. I have no idea what games you were watching.

Gholston had 49 tackles, 15 TFL, 8.5 sacks and 1 INT as a sophomore (13 games). He had 37 tackles, 15.5 TLF, 14 sacks and a fumble recovery as a junior (13 games) and then declared for the NFL draft.

Washington as a sophomore had 10 catches for 154 and 1 TD. As a junior he had 28 receptions for 454 and 2 TDs, and didn't even have starting role.

So if you're going to use that rather tired analogy, then it seems clear that Gholston was the one who played like Tarzan and Washington must be Jane.

But whatever. My point is that having "unicorn" combine stats often does not translate to NFL success.

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NoNonsense's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:14 pm

All I know is right now we need guys who can separate and do it quickly. If you go back and watch all of Jordan Loves throws from this year, he gets the ball out quick. Hits his back foot and let's it rip about 90 percent of the time. So personally I'd like to see them take Kincaid at pick 15 if Gute is thinking TE because he's the mismatch, he gets open and there are a lot of things you can do with him.

Washington is a damn good prospect but I agree more of a late 1st early 2nd round guy but he is from Georgia so I wouldn't be shocked if he was the pick in the 1st wherever that may end up being.

If it's another position in the 1st, I do really like LaPorta and Schoonmaker as day 2 or 3 picks.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:31 pm

No Nonsense....your first paragraph is exactly spot on with my thoughts. I have stated the same thing in the past. Guys who can generate separation quickly!

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

March 26, 2023 at 04:21 pm

I’m also starting to think a classic Gute pick could be Keion White; he’s typically thought of as an edge, but he’s big enough to play DL and could actually be a fantastic addition.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 26, 2023 at 09:32 pm

Be a great 2nd round pick if still on the board for all you mentioned.

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Packman60's picture

March 26, 2023 at 05:27 pm

While I like Washington, I would prefer Kinnaid's explosiveness and if Washington was still available in the 2nd round I would double dip at the Tight end position since the cupboard is bare. I don't expect the Packers to pry the Jets from pick 13. I expect them to get #42 and #43. They need to get an edge, preferably McDonald and with losing Reed and Lowery, a D-lineman, either Benton or Smith

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 27, 2023 at 11:37 pm

Pack,
I have not given up on #13 yet. I just wanted to share I am 100% in agreement on Kincaid ad then Washington if he is still available.

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golfpacker1's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:00 pm

While getting #13 in this draft would be awesome and you just expect at least multiple first rounders for a player of Rodgers stature, we missed that boat last year bigtime. Without having multiple suitors it also is going to hold down the compensation. The only real advantage we have is that the Jets are desperate and don't have even one option b. Denver had what they thought was option b in Russel and that didn't work so well.

I'm really coming around to Green Bay getting both of the Jets seconds this year, a second that could turn into a first next year, and 2 or 3 players at positions of need. While getting the extra players is a bonus or sweetener that makes up for not getting #13, because we have no money the players have to be good but also cheap. That's another benefit of the Rodgers contract. I would ask for Jeremy Ruckert-TE, Denzel Mims-WR, and Ashton Davis-S.

All 3 together are about $3 million total so that's another bridge but since you have 53 players you want the best 53 you can get and all 3 could easily make our roster. Why the Jets would agree to the 3 players is that none are starters so they are not in love with them.

It sucks not getting #13 but again with our cap issues both 2nds together will be cheaper for us and the 2nd round is loaded.

The beauty for Green Bay with this draft is how unusually strong and deep the TE class is in this draft. There is no comparison to last years draft TEs. The best ones last year aaren't even on par with the second tier guys this year. This a big chance to turn our TE group into a strength in a year. And it will help Love alot. I will be pretty happy with any of Washington, Mayer, Kraft, or Kinkaid with our first TE selected. Some of you are lower on Kinkaid because of the perception he can't block. If he catches 60-70 passes we will love him. We have had many great TEs at Iowa and Kinkaid reminds me of Dallas Clark. So does Laporta. very smooth. By the way we have 2 really good TEs at Iowa this year too.

I am a big fan of trading down for more picks in the 1st round. And someone remarked how hard to find a trade partner. Someone always wants to trade back up because they fall in love with a player. Who saw the Saints trade a couple of years ago. We scored two number ones. This year I think if Bijan drop to us if we didn't pick him someone will definitely want to trade up for him. Another will be Hendon Hooker so they get the 5th year options. I can't wait for the draft to get here because its like Xmas and there is new hope getting players.
If we don't trade back I will be bummed but still excited because this is such a strong draft.

1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:14 pm

Here are the two packages I would arrange with the Jets if I were Gutey:

Jets get: QB Aaron Rodgers, 242nd overall pick
Packers get: Picks 42, 43, and 207 in this year's draft
A conditional 3rd-round pick in 2024 (that can turn into a 2nd or 1st)
TE Jeremy Ruckert and DE Michael Cleamons

OR

Jets get: QB Aaron Rodgers, 78th overall pick, 242nd overall pick
Packers get: 43rd overall pick, 112th overall pick, 207th overall pick, 2024 conditional 3rd-round pick,* 2024 6th-round pick, EDGE Jermaine Johnson

For me, Darnell Washington and Tucker Kraft are my top 2 TEs.

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Wilment's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:19 pm

If tight end is BG;s primary target, then you pick the best one available. That being said, if the kid from ND is there, you pick him He is NFL ready, and for his time at ND, he mades some so so qbs look better than they were This from an Irish fan. That being said, I think this guy is really a two or three pick. GOPACKGO

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golfpacker1's picture

March 26, 2023 at 07:56 pm

Hey Wil. I agree on Mayer. Everybody was down on him after the combine but you can't discount the consistent production Mayer had. And it isn't like he is playing against division 3 teams. Notre Dame always plays a tough schedule. Being a Hawkeye fan and Laporta being a Hawk, we had the absolute worst QB on paper and in person of all college football. Anything Laporta did he got on his own. We are going to have a great draft.

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golfpacker1's picture

March 27, 2023 at 09:51 am

The reason I keep including Mims in a trade package is because he is untapped potential waiting for a fresh start with a new team. Why not Green Bay? We need WR talent. Plus the Jets don't want him anymore. All NFL teams give up on players they drafted eventually, some sooner than other. The Jets have given up on Mims without giving him a real chance. Devonte Adams would have had lower stats if he had been playing in New York the last 2 years. Terrible inconsistent QB play. Comps for Mims in this draft would be Quentin Johnston, Jonathon Mingo only faster, and Bryce Ford-Wheaton is a good one because both run 4.3. Mims is big @ 6'3 215lbs. and ran 4.3 40 @ combine. Green Bay had him high on their WR draft board 3 years ago and if we got him he would make a strong case to be the WR2. He is cheap at just over a million a year. All we would have to do is ask for him and the Jets wouldn't blink. He is expendable to them. If he plays good we resign him cheap.

His stats last 3 years at Baylor
soph- 61 catches for 1087 yards 8 tds
junior- 55 catches for 794 yards 8 tds- missed 2 games
senior- 66 catches for 1020 yards 12 tds

I think his ceiling is WR2 and his floor is # 3 or #4.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

March 27, 2023 at 11:53 pm

Golf,
If he could be had as a throw in to top the deal off I'd be all for it.

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Booner's picture

March 27, 2023 at 10:55 am

Let's draft a QB 1st round again!!

Worst draft choice since Tony Mandarich!!!

Or maybe we can pick up Jimmy Graham again!!!!

LET'S GO GUTY!!!!!

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1966-Guy's picture

March 28, 2023 at 03:21 pm

Would it surprise anyone if BG takes 2 TE's in this draft?

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