Packers Have to Address Their Problem on Defense
If there is one thing that held back the Packers in 2017, it was the injury of Aaron Rodgers. But even if the quarterback had been able to stay healthy, would it have mattered? Would the defense have been good enough to get Green Bay back to the Super Bowl?
The evidence suggests not. Even with Rodgers, the Packers had to win big games by shootout. The defense was completely ill-equipped to offer any resistance to the Falcons in Week 2. It also did little to hem in the Cowboys in the game that got the Packers to 4-1.
After Rodgers went out, the defense continued to get shredded by elite quarterback. Against teams like Tampa Bay and Cleveland, the defense played OK. But against a good quarterback or an elite one, it offers little resistance.
It’s what we have been seeing for the last nine years. Only once during the run of eight straight playoff berths, did Green Bay have a really good defense. And that’s when they won it all. The 2014 defense was also pretty good, but wilted when it mattered most.
The same could be said for the 2009 team, which ranked very high statistically going into the playoffs, only to have Kurt Warner basically play the perfect game against them in a 51-45 loss.
In 2011, Eli Manning went up and down the field on the 15-1 Packers. In 2012, it was Colin Kaepernick and the 49ers that put 40 on the Packers, while in 2013, 2014 and 2015, the defense gave up a score on the last possession of the game or overtime, ending the season with Rodgers on the sideline.
The bottom line is despite how many games the Packers have won with Dom Capers, they’ve gone as far as they with him. It’s time for a change. And it might be time, not just to get away from Capers, but the 3-4 defense altogether.
If you think about it, the Packers in a 4-3 really wouldn’t be that bad. Kenny Clark could play defensive tackle, so could Mike Daniels. On the outside, you could have Nick Perry and Dean Lowry on run downs, with Clay Matthews and guys like Vince Biegel subbing in on third downs.
Blake Martinez could play inside and when he is not rushing the passer, Matthews can play either on the strong or weak side. Build the defense around the defensive line and get some guys that can rush the passer.
Even the idea of playing Matthews at a more generic linebacker position, but still having the ability to use him in blitz packages is enticing. The secondary needs to improve, but It’s a player or two away from being pretty good.
Micah Hyde and Casey Hayward would certainly help in that effort. That’s one instance of the Packers making a mistake, now they have to overcome in free agency or the draft.
There is no debate that the players on defense need to be better, for anyone to succeed. But after sticking with Capers for almost a decade, despite the many failures, it’s time to make a change.
Dom Capers isn’t a bad coach, and he isn’t a bad guy by any means. But he has worn out his welcome in Green Bay and it’s time to go in a new direction, before it’s too late.
__________________________
Chris is a sports journalist from Montana and has been blogging about the Packers since 2011. Chris has been a staff writer for CheeseheadTV since 2017 and looks forward to the day when Aaron Rodgers wins his second Super Bowl. Follow him @thepackersguru
Comments (79)
lambeauguy
December 21, 2017 at 01:00 pm
Good Article. If you look at Dom Capers' total body of work you could argue he was a good to really good coach. I just suspect the game has passed him by. Free-agency, salary cap, increased need to use younger/cheaper players...just don't work in Dom's favor and for this NFL he might be a bad coach.
KenEllis
December 21, 2017 at 02:08 pm
Why do the Packers have to address the problems on their defense after the 2017 season, when Ted, Mike, and Dom (and Murphy for that matter) ignored the problems on the defense after the 2011 season, 2012 season, 2013 season, 2014 season, 2015 season, and 2016 season?
The only reason some fans are finally demanding the organization take action regarding the defense is because Rodgers went down and all those fans, writers, and pundits who have been making excuses for the D have run out of excuses, but Ted, Mike, and Dom have been getting paid handsomely to live in denial about the defense sucking for 7 years, so why do they need to change now?
Razer
December 21, 2017 at 02:15 pm
...ignored the problems on the defense after the 2011 season, 2012 season, 2013 season, 2014 season, 2015 season, and 2016 season?...
So true and so sad.
lambeau66
December 21, 2017 at 04:44 pm
amen i agree!!!!
Doug Niemczynski
December 21, 2017 at 10:23 pm
Dom Capers has wasted 6 years of our time 6 years older is A.Rodgers six years older is Jordy Nelson 6 years older is Clay Matthews the list goes on people. Get this through your head everyone no one cares if the Packers were the winningest team in history all people care about is how many Super Bowls did you win Packers how many Superbowls have you want cuz the Patriots are going on number 6 what do you have four I don't care about your championships how many Superbowls do you have? And, having the 3 greatest quarterbacks of all time that's all you got the show me 4?
carlbs
December 22, 2017 at 12:02 pm
More punctuation would make it easier for people to read your posts. Just saying...
rdent
December 21, 2017 at 01:00 pm
Chris, it has already been too late 4-5 years ago.
TheVOR
December 21, 2017 at 02:15 pm
Ya, dude should have been whacked after the Collapse in Seattle, if not sooner. Perhaps even the year after SB XLV... In truth though? Caper will probably be the sole dismissal after this season, and this runs way deeper than Caper, this is equally on the GM for lousy personnel acquisition, as well as on a host of Position Coaches.
fthisJack
December 21, 2017 at 02:58 pm
i was for getting rid of him before the Seattle collapse and i was certain they would can him after the season. they didn't, so we have had 3 more years of bad defense and i wouldn't bet they get rid of him after this season.
Roadrunner23
December 21, 2017 at 01:05 pm
Ok one more time, the Packers have some nice pieces in place to have at the very least an average Defense if not above average. Did they have a bunch of injuries? Yes.
But this ineptitude on the Defensive side has gone on for years! Poor tackling, missed assignments, blown coverages, too many or two few players on the field, untimely penalties, a Defense in total disarray and lacking confidense in itself and each other. Dom's message has gotten stale and other teams have him figured out. Let's take a look at some of the better talent on this Defense.
DT-Daniels
DT-Clark
DE-Lowry
DT-Monty Adams
LB-Mathews
LB-Perry
LB-Martinez
LB-Beigl
CB-Randall
CB-King
CB-House (If re-signed)
S - Dix
S - Burnett (if re-signed)
S - Brice
S - Whitehead
Add a true IMPACT Free agent and a few Playmaking draft choices and then add a young, energetic Defensive Coordinator who will simplify the scheme for the young talent and the Packers should have the makings of an above average Defense which with Rodgers back should be enough to make a Super Bowl run next season.
Razer
December 21, 2017 at 01:09 pm
...Ok one more time, the Packers have some nice pieces in place...
It is like singing to the choir. Just wondering if anyone is listening. Let's hope.
Since'61
December 21, 2017 at 01:20 pm
I would not include M. Adams or Perry or Beigl, Brice or Whitehead as nice pieces in place. Adams and Beigl have barely been on the field so we have no idea how good or bad they will be. Perry has been inconsistent at best and when he is not hurt he disappears whenever we play an important game. He is level of play is nowhere near the value of his contract. Matthews best seasons are behind him.
House has been a disappointment when healthy. Brice hits hard but is often out of position to make a play and Whitehead has been OK. At least he's been healthy. Prior to this season I would agree about Dix but he has been playing like he has an undiagnosed concussion this season so I don't know if he is a reliable player or not any longer. Burnett has been solid but I doubt that he'll receive another big contract from the Packers.
That leaves Daniels, Clark, Lowry(?), Martinez, Randall and King. Less than half a defense. No pass rush, no OLBs, need CBs and probably need safety help if Burnett leaves and Dix remains in no man's land.
The rest are JAGS. They are over rated. We need better players at every level of the defense except DL and even there we can use better depth.
Thanks, Since '61
That leaves
fthisJack
December 21, 2017 at 03:03 pm
i agree with all of this except letting Burnett go. i could see him going elsewhere and having a season like Hyde and Heyward with a different team. if they can get him signed to a reasonable contract i would keep him. he is valuable.
Since'61
December 21, 2017 at 09:22 pm
I would keep Burnett as well but I believe that we will be outbid in free agency. Thanks, Since '61
CAG123
December 22, 2017 at 12:15 am
You must not be watching the same strong safety I’ve been watching, Burnett has been solid nothing more nothing less but you can’t give me one impact play he’s made in 6 years playing (he was hurt in 2010) we saw glimpses of Hyde’s impact ability from his punt returns to his INT against Dallas last year or even his crazy pick in the 2015 season finale against the Vikings. I can’t give you one from Burnett and that’s not something that can be hidden by defensive scheme if he leaves the team that gets him will be getting a solid veteran starter that won’t screw things up.
jeremyjjbrown
December 22, 2017 at 07:00 am
Pick against the Seahawks in the NFC championship game.
CAG123
December 22, 2017 at 11:52 pm
Naaa Russell Wilson was giving the ball away in that game, the Rookie HHCD had 2 try again
Doug Niemczynski
December 22, 2017 at 06:49 am
Burnett will be in the Pro Bowl with a different team! !!
rdent
December 21, 2017 at 04:48 pm
Since '61 I agree we haven't seen much of M Adams is he still suffering from a bum foot? He has been occupying a roster spot yet no see.?
HankScorpio
December 21, 2017 at 05:46 pm
I don't think you're really wrong about that much. But it is an awfully pessimistic appraisal.
My starting point is that these defenders are not responding to Capers. The assessment of the players is focused on their performance under that condition of not responding to the guy in charge.
But if the guy in charge changes, it's reasonable to expect the performance will as well, at least IMO. It certainly did with Peppers, Hyde and Hayward, anyways.
They've done pretty well with draft and UDFA the last two years. There is a lot of talent that should be ascending. Jones, Brice, King, Evans, Biegel, Martinez, Clark, Lowery and Adams are from those two years. Not much of a chance for pass rush help from that group, at least not as much as they need. That's a pretty major issue. But not one that rules out better play than we've seen.
NickPerry
December 22, 2017 at 04:33 am
^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^
Excellent post Since '61. THAT'S the reality of the reality of the Packers current roster. It seems most people can't take an honest look (myself included at times) at the Packers roster for what it really is...A bunch of JAG'S with a QB that is one of the top 3 GOAT.
HankScorpio
December 22, 2017 at 06:54 am
Everybody thinks their look at the roster is the honest look. You're no different. Most likely, nobody is exactly right. With 53 guys, it is probable that everyone over-rates or under-rates on more than a few of them.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 22, 2017 at 10:01 am
Thanks to Since '61 for his post. It probably is based more on actual production than on talent, since talent is harder to judge. For that reason, i think Hank's comment that a new DC and changes to the scheme could easily change the actual production we see on the field.
I think reading Since '61's and Hank's post together gives a good analysis.
canadapacker
December 21, 2017 at 06:20 pm
Yes we have the talent - and should have had even more if Guion wouldve stayed away from the drugs and BJ wouldnt have pulled the pin and TT wouldve resigned the proper free agents ( Hyde et al) but we have lost some enthusiasm on the D side of the ball (since Greeny left) - we have had too many blown assignments and we seem to lack some meanness and the ability to tackle - willingness to lay on the big hit. We seem to get hurt over nothing plays and seem to stay out longer than we should ( and I do not mean to deny that there are serious injuries on the defensive side of the ball). To me it all seems to add up to a lack of commitment to playing winning football I also think that it kind of can be traced back to the paranoia surrounding allowing the Stinkhawks the big comeback in that championship game that we had won.
Doug Niemczynski
December 21, 2017 at 10:40 pm
Clay Matthews is gone and Burnett is gone... so that's two holes you have to feel right there major holes
Doug Niemczynski
December 21, 2017 at 10:41 pm
What about Josh Jones ? He's got talent but he needs to have a good coach
Doug Niemczynski
December 22, 2017 at 07:01 am
They cannot pay them that much money...they will go somewhere else $$$$$$$$$!!!!!!
Doug Niemczynski
December 22, 2017 at 06:58 am
There is only 6 or 7 players on the defense that are worthy..the others have not proven themsekves
Need ti back to a 4-3 defense and of course entire new defensive coaches.
Dzehren
December 22, 2017 at 09:21 am
Nick Fangio will be available. Runs a 3-4. Let’s go get Fangio!
Since'61
December 21, 2017 at 01:09 pm
Well this article certainly has a flair for the obvious. Packers have to address their problem on defense. Let's see where have we heard that before. Oh yes, only from about 100 posters here at CHTV and Jersey All AllGBP, since about 2011 or so.
I think we all know that Capers time is long overdue, at least since 2013 IMO. However, it's not just Capers and his staff, we need better players. Look at the secondary in 2010 compared with the current edition.
2010: Shields, T. Williams, Nick Collins and Charles Woodson.
2017: House, Randall, King, Burnett and Dix, when they are healthy.
Quite frankly, there is no comparison. The 2010 secondary could play with anybody and they proved during the playoffs.
2010 defense also had Cullen Jenkins and the Packers really haven't replaced him. In spite of all the draft capital spent on the defensive side of the ball the defense has been getting worse rather than improving.
Not only does Capers need to go but someone needs to make better defensive draft picks. If TT stays let him draft the OLs and WRs. Let someone else pick the defenders and a TE.
While I emphatically agree that Capers needs to go we also need to add higher quality players to our defense or else even Lombardi couldn't help this group. Thanks, Since '61
TarynsEyes
December 21, 2017 at 01:28 pm
Many know I have said that the talent of the players on defense are of Grade C/C+ with the B- and B+ player in the mix and the average comes to JAG.
Capers scheme requires a mental aspect and using the Wonderlic analogy, scores of 30 or higher but has an average of 20 and lower. This is not saying these are the real scores of the players but merely a gauge for measure.
The memory and the quick reference to previous seen and response in positioning and decision failure is obvious weekly. Whether that comes from player lacking or Capers scheme but the path that Thompson has taken in defensive drafting has succeeded in maintaining a huge disconnect.
Are/ can some players be better than witnessed, possible. Is Capers scheme really outdated or just to complicated, possible.
Are the players seeing the right coverage but confused from what is called in, possible.
Can both the players and Capers be unable to meet the needed requirement of Wonderlic gauge measure....more than possible.
Isn't the majority of the game ...mental.
Physicality gets you so far, mentality gets you across the finish line. A reason highlight reels are your biggest adversary....it's a play and usually used to cover up the many failings seen by the fans. HaHa gets rewarded for INT's he had nothing to do with other than the ball being deflected where he was...it does get him another week of recognition regardless of his over all fail. Another gets raves about garbage time stats but it covers up his utter failure most of the time and the time not even playing.
We have heard multiple times that defenses knew what our offense was going to do and that comes from,predictability of the offense and quick recall to previous seen.
Offenses see weekly our predictable defensive openings and yet our defense cannot remember where it is weekly....example....wide open over the middle.....a weekly highlight that needs ending not dismissing.
fthisJack
December 21, 2017 at 03:12 pm
look at Hyde and Heyward thriving on a team not named GB. what does that tell you? either 1.the coaching and scheme is better or 2. the teams are better, or 3.they have gotten better.
i would pick number 1. and i still can't believe they let Heyward walk after he was their best slot guy as a rookie before getting hurt. the guy was always in position to play the ball. ugh.
TarynsEyes
December 21, 2017 at 03:45 pm
Possible point of views for each.
# 1,The scheme is less complicated
# 2, The defensive talent is better over all
# 3, Capers scheme suppressed them or see # 1
Dzehren
December 22, 2017 at 09:34 am
The Bills and Chargers defenses are average.
See point #1.
Doug Niemczynski
December 22, 2017 at 07:04 am
Nobody is doing good in this def. Scheme...you heard Matt Stafford he read the def. Throughout the whole entire game!!!! Dom is too predictable.
Lphill
December 21, 2017 at 01:43 pm
Getting rid of Capers is a start , I doubt he gets fired but probably and hopefully he announces his retirement soon , that would give us hope for next year, if Marvin Lewis does leave Cincy then that's our guy.
jeremyjjbrown
December 21, 2017 at 01:45 pm
Marvin Lewis as DC would be incredible!
Finwiz
December 21, 2017 at 02:09 pm
Fangio would be better if Chicago cleans out their staff.
He's done great things with that D, with questionable talent.
jeremyjjbrown
December 21, 2017 at 03:42 pm
Fangio works too. If they can keep a 3-4 scheme it's probably better.
jeremyjjbrown
December 21, 2017 at 05:27 pm
It's terribly disappointing that the Packers wasted ARs prime with Capers defense. I just hope that McCarthy finally sees it too.
I'm not really religious but the "Parable of the Talents" seams applicable to Capers.
Razer
December 21, 2017 at 01:44 pm
The more I read - the madder I get. If we go into next year status quo, I will be very disappointed. Given our history, that scenario is more likely than not. As much as McCarthy is respected and lauded for "his offense", he is not taking care of the bigger coaching picture. Ultimately, he will have to go in order to refashion the coaching staff. To go this long with a confused and under performing defense tells you all you need to know about our HC.
Handsback
December 21, 2017 at 02:10 pm
I enjoy discussing the future as much as the next guy. Somewhere, we have to ask ourselves if what we are talking about makes sense. Going to a four man front with the current roster has one/two huge holes in it. As Chris points out casually "...add some guys that can rush the passer..." that is a HUGE undertaking and probably Green Bay's biggest need no matter what front they play. Right now they need two maybe three very good pass rushers and I would say they have maybe one.
I want to say that Green Bay does seem to have a legit CB in Randall, with King looking very good right now with House as a very good man off the bench. The IR bench of Rollins/Waters could produce another solid guy as well as Hawkins could provide depth. In order to be a playoff team King and one more guy needs to step up or TT has to go back to the draft and get one early.
I have to also point out another article was posted on another Packer site that listed the 7 canidates to replace Capers. Two of the canidates have turned down Green Bay's DC position once before. Two are internal canidates that may make you smile or laugh for either good idea or bad and they are Winston Moss and Michael Trgovac. Marvin Lewis, who is still a HC at Cincinnati, a Don Capers disciple in Vic Fangio (why get a guy who worked under Capers if you have Capers?) and the last guy currently is the DC for the Redskins, Greg Manusky. Now this author does his research, and I have to say if that's the replacement list....then I'm not impressed.
So I want to see changes...but they have to make sense. Another two pass rushers for the defense and another solid CB starter will do wonders for the defense. A new DC would be great...just don't see a lot of guys that can do it better that Green Bay could hire.
Finwiz
December 21, 2017 at 02:15 pm
Casey Hayward throwing big shade at Capers in a tweet to Micah Hyde today.
Capers sounds like he's staying around as long as he continues to enjoy the relationship with the players and the competitiveness, and apparently he STILL DOES!
Mark it down folks, it sounds like nothings going to change again in the offseason, unless Capers is blowing smoke out his azz, not realizing the floor is burning beneath him.
Doug Niemczynski
December 21, 2017 at 10:43 pm
Like if I was making $2000000 a year I could care less if I'm on the Packers and I suck I don't care if I was the worst defensive coordinator in the world 2 million dollars a year I'll take your money Packers!!
Doug Niemczynski
December 21, 2017 at 10:46 pm
When Capers has asked how long he wants to coach, his response was not in favor of the fans.
"As long as I enjoy it," Caper said per Rob Demovsky of ESPN. "I enjoy the competitiveness of it, and the relationship with the players. So as long as I enjoy it."
Notice how Dom Capers says as long as I enjoy it . He doesn't give a crap if the Packer fans enjoy it it's only as long as he enjoys it. He doesn't say as long as the fans will have me he doesn't say anything like that. you get it people. he doesnt care if he takes your freaking money he don't care nothing about the Green Bay Packers he doesnt care what team it is as long as he enjoys it and not you.
HankScorpio
December 22, 2017 at 06:57 am
Everything wants to keep their job. Far fewer get to make the choice whether they do. Capers is not among the few.
Randy James
December 21, 2017 at 02:22 pm
Not sure I agree the 3-4 needs to go as much as I think that with more discipline and attention to technique would stop all the missed tackles and the mental errors. I like the 3-4. I also like a lot of the guys they just need to tighten up. Now whether that is DC I don't know but I'm leaning that way. How about Jim Leonhard of Wisconsin? Or give Winston Moss a chance and bring back Kevin Greene for the OLB's.
Randy James
December 21, 2017 at 02:24 pm
TT's time is up. Let Eliot Wolf take over. Not everything needs to be scrapped. Just need to move in a different direction from TT.
4thand1
December 21, 2017 at 04:33 pm
"and its time to go in a new direction, before its to late". What is considered to late? A defense that can make a crucial stop, which never happens, cause a huge game changing turnover, which never happens either. Its been too late for too long. IMO, if no major changes are made, TT and MM will lose this team. I believe its really really close to that now.
Doug Niemczynski
December 21, 2017 at 10:50 pm
It is too late that's the problem it is too late Rogers 34 years old Clay Matthews is older on the downhill slope. Jordy Nelson is on the decline .Morgan Burnett will be gone I wouldn't be surprised if we lose Davante Adams because we're not going to pay him Alshon Jeffrey money. Hey the good news is what you Packers like a winning season and staying under the salary cap that's all we care about who cares about a Super Bowl ring.
Go ahead and give me 10 dislikes.
Biggar
December 21, 2017 at 05:20 pm
After listening and living with the Packers since 1960 I am finally making a comment.
1. With Rodgers we will never have a run game. Remember it is all about the quarterback.
2. Yes the Packers have had 2 Hof quarterback's but only 2 sbs.
3. Ted, Mike and maybe Murphy have got to go.
4. 3-26 remember. Now it is 3rd and what ever. You Can not tell me we do not have talent on the defense. Unless our draft experts are idiots and they are not our coaches have failed for a long time.
5. Who is calling the plays on offense Mike, Aaron? Plays were fresh 10 years ago not today. Fix it
6. This is where I am going to get beat up. Call John Dorsey and make a deal. Rodgers for their first round picks this year and a 2nd next year. That would allow us to retool the defense, draft a franchise qb. Do not let Ted do the draft . Elliot wolf.
Big gar
Thegreatreynoldo
December 22, 2017 at 10:15 am
One comment every 57 years - that makes you downright taciturn. I'd reply to your point 6, but what's the point if I have to wait 57 years for a response? Plus I'd be 115 then.
dobber
December 22, 2017 at 10:54 am
I'd argue that ARod is worth more than that...especially on his current contract.
flackcatcher
December 22, 2017 at 02:55 pm
Realistically, no team could afford to trade for Rodgers. They would be kneecapping themselves for a decade. (Well, Jerry Jones would do it. But then we all know Jerry is well.....crazy :)
Finwiz
December 22, 2017 at 12:31 pm
Not happening in a million years, at least not for about 4-5 years.
For every 1 Aaron Rodgers, there's 7-8 Ryan Leaf's.
Too big of a risk.
And your point 3, that will never happen either.
Doug_In_Sandpoint
December 22, 2017 at 02:09 pm
I just called LVT and had him put down a grand for me on the Browns winning the SB next year. The odds were in my favor and with AR, they are probably better that we are right now.
4zone
December 21, 2017 at 05:28 pm
I keep asking the same question and no one ever replies. Who do we replace Capers with? Some names folks?
4thand1
December 21, 2017 at 06:20 pm
Howie Mandell
Bearmeat
December 21, 2017 at 06:39 pm
Great article. Obvious article too. Doesn't make it less great.
#FireCapers
JohnnyLogan
December 21, 2017 at 08:40 pm
I take a chance on Jim Leonhard. Young defensive coach who had Wisconsin as best defense in the nation -- but knows the NFL. Played ten seasons as a really good defensive back. Smart as hell. Those that say he's inexperienced... they made McChubby head coach and he never was a head coach before and never played in the league. I'd count Jim's ten years as a smart player as coaching experience. Can he possibly do worse than Capers? I honestly don't think so. Capers is the most overrated coach in the history of coach. I think Leonhard will be motivated as hell, and be a great motivator to the young players who will respect his having been a player. And he'll be standing right there with them in battle, not sitting on a hill watching his men go down.
bodei1newbie1
December 22, 2017 at 04:47 am
not Jim Leonhard no it has to be somebody else not him
dobber
December 22, 2017 at 10:53 am
I agree in that Jim Leonhard needs more experience. He's a guy to watch, though.
bodei1newbie1
December 22, 2017 at 04:45 am
my comment is this you if your going to the 4-3 then you need some bigger guys in there (like weighing around 330 to 340) two of them that will put the packers over the top with a four man front
HankScorpio
December 22, 2017 at 06:22 am
That kind of size does help but it is not entirely necessary. I'd be very happy with the Packers DTs in a 4-3. Kenny Clark is fine on the nose with Daniels playing an under tackle.
Doug Niemczynski
December 22, 2017 at 07:05 am
Need more productivity from Montravious adams!
dobber
December 22, 2017 at 10:52 am
Agreed. There are many teams that run 4-3 who play with DTs under 310...especially if the DEs are a little bigger.
croatpackfan
December 22, 2017 at 05:56 am
Hey, it almost 2018! There si no Vince in the town, neither rules are allowing his training system... Also, Brett Favre is not here as Sharpe, Butler, White, Buckley, Bennett, etc. are not. Neither are Mike Holmgren or Fritz Shurmur.
This is another time - digital one. Forget past, forget comparing those legends with todays players. You are constantly talking how football evolved. SO, there is no possible comparation...
Also, to all of you who are calling for change of D system, you have to understand that every change of system in every human activity needs time for acters to adapt. Sometimes it is easier and shorter, sometimes it lasts quite long. But any change is always panfull.
Thank you!
And yes, I'm for change at DC position. I also noted during some games this season that players looks like they are intentionally playing against their coordinator...
NickPerry
December 22, 2017 at 06:09 am
You should go read this article Croat since you feel Thompson does such a great job.
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/12/21/16805866/vikings-packers-d...
This is just comparing the Packers picks on defense to the Vikings. There's no denying it when it's right there in print, in black and white. You constantly suggest the reason for Thompson's failures in the draft is because he drafts near the end of each round. READ this piece then try and suggest it.
croatpackfan
December 22, 2017 at 06:47 am
OK Nick. Everything sucks and the best to do is to fire everybody from organization... They proved that they are failure...
Sorry that I think 8 years in the row to be in for play off and possible winning SB (plus one SB) is not failure. Sorry!
But be afraid of your wishes. Because your wishes are produced of your injuries. Do not expect Packers to reduce your frustrations. You have to do it by yourself. Because, otherwise you'll never be satisfied...
This is sentence pull out from one very wise book: "Decisions made during domination of strong feelings never ever are good or correct!"
Maybe this will help you.
I still do not see your argument against 2nd best active coach at this moment in the NFL. He has second best record by much...
Regarding that article you are taking as argument, I would like to know at what positions Vikings were drafting all those years? From the bottom of the rounds or?
That kind of arguments stinks... And you know better. I read much better comments from your side.
It would be same if I'm attacking you for defending always hurt expensive contract player like Nick Perry. He was drafted by TT, isn't he?
That kind of arguments are not arguments... I think you'll agree with me in this, at least.
EDIT: I do not see many 1st and 2nd round players on the Viking list! Their best WR is UDFA guy. Their best QB is UDFA guy. Wow!
Also, did you read this article:
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/12/21/16805744/five-reasons-to-b...
NickPerry
December 22, 2017 at 07:42 am
What the hell are you talking about?
I asked you a simple question and you turn it into some rambling about myself? Did you read the article? Many of those players were selected after Thompson's picks and that was part of my point. I'm tired of so many fans blaming it on draft position. I've used the Steelers and Patriots as examples for the same argument as well.
My question is how does Thompson fail just about every season where others succeed.
Don't make this about ME Croat. If you don't like me or my posts I could care less and I'm sure you feel the same way. But don't "Attack" me Croat. I NEVER attack people on this site even when some have said some choice or harsh things to me this year.
IMO and it's MINE..I feel the Packers should move on from Thompson. I've provided more than enough data over the last few years (especially this year) to support MY opinion.
croatpackfan
December 22, 2017 at 07:58 am
Sorry, Nick, that was not disrespect to you...
I hope you understand that!
And, no, TT did not pick before that picks... You do not pick 3rd or 4th round pick with pick one or 2 rounds earlier...
I know that there was lot of rave and rant on players TT picks, but most of those fan's darlings are already out of league or playing very insigniuficant role - I remember mourning here when Jets picked Calvin Pryor just to trade him to Browns few years later...
So, experts, you want more examples like that? I can agree that sometimes there is miss, but it is as well as with any teams draft picks...
stockholder
December 22, 2017 at 08:29 am
Change? Call it NEW DIRECTION! I believe you won't see Capers gone. They'll put a new spin on it. Don Capers is regarded by many as one of the greatest DCs of all time. (So state articles on the web.) But it's clear the packers record, and stats, are suggesting new. We've also seen articles suggesting, he listen to his players. But any bull headed administrator would not give in to such talk. WE condemn TT for making bad selections. But why are the picks failing so badly. Why won't Don Capers resign! Why won't Don Capers fire the coaches for not producing better? Don Capers only has himself to blame. And instead of acting like one of the best defensive gurus of all time. The NFL changed. His staff failed him. He failed MM! He's lived off MMs lack of knowledge. The all -pros left. The changes have not produced. It's time Capers makes a public apology. Offers his resignation. And flat out puts his coaches on notice. If retained what promises can he give us? Let's really get into Dom Capers mind and figure out whats wrong. He's been in charge and controls it. It's his defense and it sucks. What changes would Don Capers make? And if he says none. THey MUST Fire him!
croatpackfan
December 22, 2017 at 05:59 am
Chris, 2014 NFCCG was lost by offense and ST. D gave to offense huge number of chances, with TO, with 3 and outs - heck Seattle did not went to Packers territory once in the 1st half. What else offense needed. They had to put 42 - 49 points on the board in the first half not only 16...
HankScorpio
December 22, 2017 at 06:49 am
I don't know about expecting 42+ points but certainly more than 6 points off 6 turnovers. Rodgers QB rating was in the 50s. That's not a winning effort, for sure.
Say what you want about the Packer defense from '13-'15. But they did enough to win the playoff games that knocked them out in each of those years, allowing 23 or less in regulation of each game.
Houndog
December 22, 2017 at 07:31 am
Same old shit, those of us that like winning, and those happy to be just "contenders"!
I like the former.
bodei1newbie1
December 22, 2017 at 10:46 am
i agree it is the same old bs now answer me this who drafted the players since 2011 until now (it seem like ted had more failures than winners ) don't you think, myself i'm sick and tried of it myself anything less than a superbowl is not good
lou
December 22, 2017 at 11:10 am
Based purely on performance (defensive stats) even if Perry Mason were to come alive he couldn't build a case to keep Dom Capers. I read the Journal/Sentinel article this morning with McCarthy talking about all the "mental mistakes" on defense and almost threw up my breakfast. OTA's Mini Camps - Pre-Season, 16 games in to the season and he is blaming "mental mistakes". McCarthy either grows stones again and revamps the defensive coaching staff and style of play like he did with Bob Sanders crew or this time next he will be feeling the heat like never before. Merry Christmas everyone.
4thand1
December 22, 2017 at 02:38 pm
Do we just draft dumb fuckers?
lou
December 22, 2017 at 11:11 am
"this time next year"