Packers Need to Build Back Their Offensive Line Depth
After parting with multiple players this off-season, how will the Packers rebuild their O-line depth?
By GregMeinholz
On Monday evening, news broke of the Carolina Panthers signing former Packers' offensive tackle, Yosh Nijman to a two-year, $8M deal with $5M guaranteed and a max value of $15M. They'd already lost Guard Jon Runyan to the New York Giants and released longtime starting Tackle, David Bakhtiari. Runyan and Bakhtiari were in a way, expected. Nijman honestly was too in a way, but his departure kind of left an awkward feeling in my chest given his status with the team a year ago vs his use this past season.
Last off-season, Yosh Nijman was a restricted free agent. The Packers placed the hefty price tag of a 2nd round pick on Nijman for a team wanting to bring in the then-3rd-year tackle. This meant Nijman had a pre-determined salary worth $4.3M for the year. He could engage in conversations with other teams about a new deal, but if a deal was agreed on, and the Packers didn't match, the signing team would have owed the Packers their second-round pick in the 2023 NFL Draft. At the time, this made sense. With David Bakhtiari's future being questionable, Nijman was considered the second-best option after Zach Tom. So, the Packers pushing to not lose him and be fairly compensated if they did, was a great move. But then, Nijman kind of took a back seat. Rasheed Walker beat out Nijman for the left tackle position, and Nijman only played about 20% of offensive snaps in 2023. It was as if Nijman just kind of disappeared. There was a starting position ready for him but he just didn't get it. All that grasp for high compensation if he left, to utilize him as basically the fourth tackle option.
Well, now Nijman is gone. And the Packers find themselves very thin at the tackle position for 2024. So, how are they going to fill out that offensive line room?
Free Agency
Trust me, I nearly spit out my drink as I typed that. I find it as far-fetched as you might. But after spending some money on Josh Jacobs and Xavier McKinney, it's undoubtedly a different off-season in Green Bay. Brian Gutekunst just might go bargain-bin hunting before, or even after the draft. Some of the better inexpensive options available may be intriguing, but the ages don't exactly follow the Packers' youth movement. Andre Dillard could be an intriguing option. The former first-round pick was considered a bust in Philadelphia, but signing him to be a backup or swing option could be good for him to find his place and perhaps resurrect his career in year 5. But there's a problem, Dillard is 28 years old. That could make his price tag cheap, but for as young as the Packers' offense is, I think they're looking for someone who could contribute for longer than 3-4 years and possibly develop into a starter. Another option is Josh Jones. Jones had kind of a fall from grace as he went back and forth between a starting role and a backup role. Sure, he could be no better than Nijman, but at 26 years old, he may be worth a shot to see what you get.
We also may have answers already on the team though.
Caleb Jones
The Packers may have their depth right under their noses. His 2023 training camp was derailed a little bit due to injury, but even before that, Caleb Jones was impressing many who watched. Standing at 6'9, Jones of course has the power to be an offensive tackle but he has a bit of finesse as well. There were moments you'd see Jones out in open space trying to make a block on a defensive back that in normal situations would be able to get around him, but Jones could zero in and make the block.
Luke Tenuta is another offensive tackle that I could see making a jump in the absence of Yosh Nijman. Like Jones, Tenuta is a very large lineman standing at 6'8. Injury also sort of derailed his 2023 season before he could get anywhere. But like Jones, Tenuta has the size and strength to contribute when needed.
The Draft
Regardless of who's currently on the roster and the confidence the Packers may have in them, I still anticipate an offensive lineman taken in the first or second round. Even after that, I could see more linemen taken with a mid to late-round pick, maybe even two. The Packers like to play the odds game with draft picks, especially offensive linemen. They'll pick three linemen just in hopes one or maybe 2 of them will be successful.
One of my top picks for offensive linemen that could be available to the Packers is Graham Barton from Duke. Barton stands at 6'5 314 lbs. The big bonus to Barton is his versatility. He can play inside and outside at a high level. We all know how Brian Gutekunst loves his versatile linemen. Barton may go early in the second round, but if the Packers find it impossible to pass him by, there's a chance he could go in the first round with the Packers grabbing him.
Another prospect for the Packers late in the first round could be Georgia Bulldog, Amarius Mims. Mims stands at 6'8 340 lbs and shocked the combine after running a 5.08 40-yard dash. He may be one of the most physically imposing linemen in the draft this year and after scoring a 9.5/10 RAS score, he could definitely fit Brian Gutekunst's mold for athletic linemen. The one knock against Mims though is his experience. He's only had 8 college starts. A tight-rope ankle surgery kept him out of six games in 2023. But, obviously given that fast 40 time, that ankle is feeling fine. Mims isn't a day 1 starter, but after a season watching from the sidelines and only entering when needed, he could develop into a good starter at tackle.
The Packers have a luxury heading into the 2024 season. 4/5 of their starting offensive linemen are returning. The new 5th, Sean Rhyan, happens to be a guard who did fairly well in his 15 % of snaps of 2023. Not great, but not bad either.
I think despite losing those players mentioned previously, we still have a great group of young talented linemen who could all be starting one day. Have to stay young with these young weapons on offense so might as well do the building with the draft and from within.
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Greg Meinholz is a lifelong devoted Packer fan. A contributor to CheeseheadTV as well as PackersTalk. Follow him on Twitter @gmeinholz for Packers commentary, random humor, beer endorsements, and occasional Star Wars and Marvel ramblings.
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Comments (108)
GB@Germany
March 20, 2024 at 12:09 pm
Would be very surprised to see a free agency hire, but not to see 2 Top 5 picks on O-line. A challanger on center would be nice….
BA4Pack
March 20, 2024 at 04:22 pm
I feel OL in the first 3 picks is a must.
Minniman
March 21, 2024 at 03:59 am
I'm giving you a thumbs up, but being a BPA guy I never say that it's a must anywhere in the draft.
However, with a deep OL draft, I WILL bet that the Packers load up on OL, with some early.
Every draftee that plays meaningful snaps is one less (expensive) FA contract.
I would be over the moon if the Packers were able to snag Jackson Powers-Johnson in the first - sure, Myers is serviceable, but this guy would anchor the interior for a decade.
As an aside - listening to David Bakhtiari on the Mark Tauscher ESPN Wisconsin show, he's still only 50% recovered from the last procedure (his words) - which was a thinly disguised cartilage regeneration procedure (he did directly not disclose the procedure). It's not inconceivable that the Packers could re-sign him later this year - just saying - I can't see any team signing him in his current state (in which he's definitely taken the decision to prioritize his own health and long term well being - as is his prerogative).
gsd3
March 20, 2024 at 12:11 pm
Mims....no. Barton....possibly but not if we are passing on others who may drop.
Fuega (sp?) or JPJ.
I like Jones, Foster, or Rouse as mid round picks.
T7Steve
March 20, 2024 at 12:22 pm
Staying young is the direction I think is best.
I also think if they can run block better, it will help their pass pro. Not the other way around. We had poor run blocking last season and only Jones could be successful last year and got beat up doing it (although it wasn't all due to the poor blocking).
"Build in the trenches, and they will come." That's the best made up quote I could think up at the moment. Couldn't figure one using "entrenched", but I'm sure someone else can.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 22, 2024 at 07:15 pm
I want to see some nasty big OL men drafted by Gutey early and often come draft time. OL and LB need to be repeatedly selected throughout the draft. Unless the Packers pick up some FA's OL and LBs I could see as many as 6 picks used at these two positions. May seem heavy but the Packers do need to strengthen these positions. I am very interested in one of the ILBs (Jeremiah Trotter) who is a very strong pass rusher wondering if they might be able to use this backer to also be able to fill in at Edge until Kingsley Enagbare recovers?
stockholder
March 20, 2024 at 12:30 pm
No to both Mims and barton..
IMO you could get someone
just as good, if not better, later in the draft.
Sure you want depth and protect Love.
I get it. But take somebody worthy of the pick.
jannesbjornson
March 20, 2024 at 01:02 pm
Boat anchors. Draft the LT and the starting OG in Rds one-two. Just get the job done, correctly, in the first place, not speculate about a scrub and over-pay a guy to ride the pine.
dobber
March 21, 2024 at 07:47 am
With the volume of picks they have and the gaps in the OL depth chart, I could see as many as 4 OL picks, even if one is just a 7th round claim on a guy they really didn't want to have to fight for as a UDFA.
LambeauPlain
March 21, 2024 at 10:35 am
Yep. I too could see 4 drafted for the most important "unit" playing on the Packers who need more quality depth.
In addition, I would be pleased if they selected 3 BAP among OL prospects during the first 6 selections (first 4 rounds).
PeteK
March 20, 2024 at 05:02 pm
If would draft Dejean or another highly rated DB if available at 25, then work on the O line and ILB.
splitpea1
March 20, 2024 at 12:43 pm
You're not concerned about Mims' lack of experience? OK, he's hugely talented, but he's going to need some work. I'd really like to avoid first-round projects, and especially on the O-line.
I would be racing up to the podium if Fuaga was still available, and possibly to a lesser extent, Fautanu; doubtful either one will be there, though.
The Packers will probably stick to their usual protocol with the versatility, but still J P-J would still be a welcome addition to me inside. But Barton doesn't sound like a bad choice.
Remember we still have holes to fill at safety and LB, so that could play into the draft decision-making early on. There are plenty of good O-line prospects in the first three rounds, but safety and LB are somewhat thin and we definitely need to make sure to not miss the boat--without reaching, of course.
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 01:59 pm
JPJ, Barton , and King Sua seem like the most viable OL to be available @ #25. I would guess Barton is the choice of those 3 because of his OT play, but is JPJ better @ OG? JPJ is obviously the best OC. Sua probably could be a very good OG as well.
Our first 3 picks and our 3 biggest needs seem to align so well it is scary. OL, no matter which of the 3 above get picked, is addressed with a Top 10 O-Lineman.
All 3 of the Top Safeties should be there @ #41 so the only thing not easy is choosing which one. Nubin if available.
I am not as big of fan as some are of Cooper. Wilson's surgeries are troublesome, especially the shoulder, unless we are looking for a 4-year LB instead of long term.
So, #58 should be perfect for Colson or Wallace, the safest and best fits for Green Bay.
#88 & #91 line up for a Top 10 CB, a Top 10 RB, or a Top 20 OL. Or we could trade back for 2 more picks and address all 3 needs. Win-Win-Win.
Does anyone know if Garrett Greenfield-OT-S Dakota State plays OG too? And did he and Frank Crum-OT-Wyoming play in Senior Bowl or Shrine Game, and how did they do? Both killed the combine. Later picks?
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 09:39 am
Nubin’s lack of athleticism is almost as marked as Kinchens. A sun 3 RAS raises questions. Do the Packers think scouting suggests either is a false representation strongly enough to not only draft but draft very early?
Greenfield is listed at 6’6”. That’s typically just outside the desired height for an IOL. Is that height accurate? I think he has to be a G in the pros. For all his power, his movement and particularly feet speed /balance worry me too much as a T.
Crum is a small school prospect who needs some work but I do really quite like as a late developmental project. Initially as a swing, he has the athleticism to be more. He needs work technically. I’ve taken him in my own mocks in the 7th more than once. He stood out athletically at the combine, so he’s risen from borderline UDFA project. The question is how far? At 6’8 he’s unlikely to help inside and I am doubtful he’s ready at T to be the next up yet. A great pipeline low cost pick for the future.
LambeauPlain
March 21, 2024 at 07:10 am
There are better OL than Barton but they will be gone by 25. But for the Packers, Barton may be the best fit for 2024 and beyond. He is extremely smart, can play all 5 positions effectively, and is very intelligent. He is accomplished in Zone schemes.
And while he can play all 5 positions, Center or Guard seems where he would max his strengths and minimize weaknesses.
He looks like Tom or Jenkins 2.0.
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 01:26 pm
Latest Mock, trades back from #25 for #45 & #59 and 2 others for mid round picks-
41.Tyler Nubin-S Minnesota
45.Cooper Beebe-OG Kansas State
58.Braden Fiske-DT Florida State-Bonus pick that replaces Kenny Clark whenever
59.Trevin Wallace-LB Kentucky
91.Bucky Irving-RB Oregon
93.Khyree Jackson-CB Oregon
128.Zak Zinter-OG Michigan
142.Javon Foster-OT Missouri
158.Isaac Guerendo-RB Louisville-he is probably gone by now
169.Brennan Jackson-EDGE Washington State
184.DeCamerion Richardson-CB Mississippi State
190.Frank Crum-OT Wyoming
204.Nathaniel Watson-LB Mississippi State
245.Tyler Owens-S Texas Tech
Filled 8 positions, doubled up on S, OG, RB, CB, LB, OT
LLCHESTY
March 20, 2024 at 01:43 pm
Ruke Orhorhoro is a better player for that A gap spot that Clark and Slaton are at than Fiske is. Actually did all the athletic tests and doesn't have T Rex arms. Fiske only played 20 snaps in the A gap last year. I don't get why Fiske gets all the attention for a fast 40 when Orhorhoro tested just as well and is stronger and longer.
https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1770482934694420681?t=42EUXVTUh2VNGj...
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 03:35 pm
Fiske sure looked overpowering against the best college O-linemen in the all-star games. Wasn't he named outstanding DLineman in one of them. He dominated the drills too. He should get attention for that 40 time. That's why they run them. Ruke looks like a good one too. But he isn't as good of a pass rusher. Fiske looks like an offense disruptor that will require 2 people to keep him out.
LLCHESTY
March 20, 2024 at 03:56 pm
Fiske had 28 pressures in 263 pass rush snaps. Orhorhoro had 26 in 235 pass rush snaps. Who had the better pass rush win rate? Orhorhoro played more A gap snaps and had 3 more bench reps with 3" inch longer arms.
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 08:01 pm
Calm down LL. It was just a mock draft. Not the end of the world. I had an extra pick and Fiske was available. I have picked Orhorhoro plenty of times before but I don't usually pick a DT.
GOOSFRABA
stockholder
March 20, 2024 at 03:17 pm
Love Nubin. But Fiske doesn't work for me.
Because I don't want to replace Clark.
If you take a DL .
You made the case for
the NT from Texas first.(Sweat)
I also want Wilson Now.
I just remember how good Ted Hendricks was.
WE need another stork @lb
jannesbjornson
March 20, 2024 at 03:33 pm
Will his knees hold out? Ted Hendricks was no choir boy, Wilson portends to be.
stockholder
March 20, 2024 at 04:41 pm
That could be said of any past ilb.
He's got the speed you want.
And even with all his health issues.
He ran like the wind.
Coldworld
March 20, 2024 at 11:12 pm
With those health issues one has to wonder how long he will be able to. Without seeing his medical data, He could just as easily be off the Packers board completely as on it. Since we don’t know, it’s complete guesswork with him.
Based upon past Packers caution, I regard us picking him as unlikely to the point that I ignore him in drafts. If his prognosis is better and we do go for him, great, but I will wait to see it before I believe it.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 07:44 am
TT would. Gute won't.
Gary had a bad shoulder-
Just saying if a guy plays the whole
year without injury, you end up taking
on the testing.
Rumors and current injuries drop a player
out of rd.1. But they go around 50.
I've seen where Pff- has him going in rd 1 @30
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 09:44 am
TT consistently avoided players with that kind of health issue, or I should say, the type of recurring health issue his public medical “history” may suggest. There’s a difference between a player who has an injury and one who has had multiple related ones. For me he’s off my board as I will never have the information to decide rationally. If the team decides otherwise based on more knowledge, great.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 11:27 am
He wasted a One Pick on Justin Harrell, a guy with a torn muscle and an appetite for Mom's apple pies.
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 07:07 pm
Somewhat different
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 11:28 am
I'd draft him in the first after Nubin's 3 cone.7.2?
Won't get a better ILB.
You have to look at FAs and Cap numbers now.
Even CM3 went down hill when he went inside.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 11:39 am
They let the MLB go to the 49rs.
michael562
March 21, 2024 at 04:08 pm
Nubin: 2.91 RAS
Cheezehead72
March 21, 2024 at 06:38 am
Mock drafts are about as useful as a flat spare tire.
Bitternotsour
March 21, 2024 at 05:46 pm
yes, but participating in a mock draft allows you to say a year later, I would have drafted X in round 2, not Y.
of course you drafted X in your 14th simulation, but it matters not.
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 09:55 am
There are a couple of players I think it’s quite possible that the Packers will have taken off their board for health reasons. Other than that, I rarely if ever rule out a player, just differ on when he’d come into consideration. Khyree Jackson Is one who gets as close to a “No” as they come.
His timed speed at 4.5 is marginal for a perimeter guy and seems to be validated by film. He’s got great length it is true, but otherwise his skillset mostly suggests he’s an inside candidate, particularly his initial straight line burst, yet he’s projected outside despite the speed issues. Why? He’s very stiff hipped. He struggles inside and outside it shows up as being grabby to compensate for an inability to adjust. In the pros I think he really struggles both inside and out.
Guam
March 20, 2024 at 01:44 pm
I'm not even going to try picking who because I never get it right anyway, but I expect the Packers to spend two of their first five picks on O-linemen. Fortunately need and availability meet for the Packers this year as a deep draft in O-linemen coincides very nicely with a Packer team needing at least two and maybe three O-linemen from this draft.
As far as a free agent, if the Packers sign a free agent tackle, that will tell you all you need to know about C. Jones and L. Tenuta. If not, then maybe the Packers think they have something in one or both of them.
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 02:07 pm
It would be interesting and helpful to know what the Packers really think of Luke Tenuta and Caleb Jones. Are they really viable options or just depth pieces? They are both huge and strong but are they agile and quick enough to play on the edge. If GB is high enough on them then a huge problem at OT is solved. But both are obviously too big to play OG.
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 08:03 pm
WOW that post was really worth a downvote. I just asked questions. Somebody needs a hug.
Guam
March 20, 2024 at 10:45 pm
Don't get the down votes at all gp1. Yours was an appropriate response to my comment. WOW is right.
Leatherhead
March 20, 2024 at 02:12 pm
IMO, often stated, we should draft Barton because he gives us a backup at all five spots. If nobody gets hurt, and we keep all our starters healthy, that's fine, but I'd be amazed if it happened. We should also go back around #91 and take the best OL we can get, and we should take another on Day 3.
We are drafting players that are going to be in the huddle with Jordan Love in some big games over the next four years. Getting Barton and at least one either guy would allow us to have a hope of being able to dress out 7 competent OL.....right now, #6 is Royce Newman and #7 is Caleb Jones, so that would push them back to #8 and #9., unless somebody better beats them out.
Still thin, IMO, but at least we've got a hope. Right now, the first injury puts Newman in the starting lineup.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Another course would be to totally reshuffle the line. Put the highly paid veteran, Jenkins, at LT. Move Tom to Center. Draft a LG and a RT. I don't think they'll do this,but they could.
crayzpackfan
March 21, 2024 at 09:43 am
"Another course would be to totally reshuffle the line. Put the highly paid veteran, Jenkins, at LT. Move Tom to Center. Draft a LG and a RT. I don't think they'll do this,but they could."
I think that ship has sailed.
mattgsx
March 21, 2024 at 10:11 am
I could see a world where putting the best five on the field involves Tom or Jenkins at center, but I agree Jenkins at left tackle is probably not going to happen. He is a serviceable tackle, but a formidable guard, and I don't necessarily see him as being an upgrade to Walker.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 10:32 am
He played well at LT, too. If you're going to pay a guy like a LT......
I don't think the Packers will shuffle. But they could. And if they did, you'd start with putting your horse at LT, and that would be Jenkins, by age, experience, and salary. You could move Tom to Center, but it would be just as easy to draft another one. This line of Walker,Jenkins, Rhyan and Tom is going to be with us for the next couple of years.
One draft got Tom, Rhyan, and Walker. Tom was ready pretty quickly, it took Walker a year on the PS, and it took Rhyan a year and a half to get on the field. This is called coaching and player development.
LambeauPlain
March 21, 2024 at 10:39 am
Rhyan missed a good chunk of his rookie season from a self inflicted wound with his suspension using PEDs.
That is certainly not in the coaching and player development strategy.
However, their overall track record in OL development is strong. I just wish ML, Steno and Butkus would actually play their best 5 (that's just talk) instead of their favorite 5.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 08:07 pm
I think we only have 5 linemen worth playing, and that's being generous, IMO.
The rules say we can dress 9, but nobody after our starters have ever shown squat.
History shows that it's rare to start the same 5 guys every game. People get hurt and you need to have a good player to fill in. I think since we're starting the Love Window, we should get quality people blocking for him for the next couple of years, even if we need to "get by" at some other position.
Barton at #25 and Amegadajie at #88.
skydancer506
March 20, 2024 at 02:33 pm
First - you missed a key person the team has already signed. OT Kadeem Telfort was signed as an undrafted free agent to the practice squad last year. The 6-foot-7 tackle from the University of Alabama-Birmingham has gone through one training camp and spent the season still involved with the team. The bonus is that Telfort's offensive line coach in college, Eddie Gordon, was hired as the Packers assistant offensive line coach. I expect to see Kadeem elevated from the practice squad and signed to the 53 man roster after camp this year.
Eddie Gordon also spent some time as an offensive line coach at Georgia. While you mention Amarius Mims as a possibility, it will probably be only if Mims falls further down the draft board. His lack of starts and frequency of injury (yes, he was even injured at the Combine after running the 40), might make him an attractive prospect with Pick 58 or 88, if he falls that far. I doubt that they will take him at 25 when they have their eyes at defensive players at linebacker (Edgerrin Cooper) and Safety (Tyler Nubin, Kamren Kinchens and Javon Bullard) towards the top of their draft board. I had Mims on my original Mock Draft during the season, but the Packers improved their play enough to where I think he'll actually be off the board by then.
There are a lot of good OTs in the midrounds of the draft, some of which you have already mentioned. I'm not going to retread the same turf.
Also - keep your eye on Frank Crum. He ran an impressive 40 at the Combine for a lineman, and at 6-foot-8 and 315 pounds with over 3,000 college snaps at the tackle position (on both sides of the line), the Wyoming Cowboy would fit well as a sixth round pick (probably #202 overall). Gutey loves players from the SEC, but he also likes to sneak a Mountain West guy in the draft on occasion. Frank Crum might be a solid Mountain West guy that will help anchor the right side of the line. Match him up with Kadeem Telfort on the left side of the line and the Packers will have giant bookends that will be tough for edge rushers to slide past.
Leatherhead
March 20, 2024 at 03:00 pm
I know we have Telfort and Tenuta , and Jones who have all been on scholarship for a while but not good enough to line up for a play. Walker came on board at the same time but he's starting now.
Actually....I just now realized that Rhyan, Tom, Walker, Telfort, Tenuta, and Jones have all been with the team about the same amount of time.
After our starting five, the only guy who has ever taken a snap is Newman. Year after year, I see us entering our biggest game of the season with some guy starting on the Oline who was supposed to be a marginal backup. Just once I'd like to see us start the season with 8 or 9 guys who can play. Right now, IMO, we have 5.
PackerBO
March 20, 2024 at 04:11 pm
I'm with the mindset that I never want to see Newman again in a game for the Packers!!! Barton is fine with me.
skydancer506
March 20, 2024 at 05:38 pm
Everybody seems to miss the "development" part of a draft and develop strategy. That's why they haven't taken many or any snaps in games. But once they get to a certain point in their development to where they can be trusted to handle the load, they are fine. It's a process.
I don't know why everybody places this expectation that every single draft pick has to be Pro Ready on Day 1. It's fair to expect that out of a first round pick, to a certain extent, but even some of the guys the Packers have drafted on defense - Quay, Lukas Van Ness, and Jaire, weren't quite ready on Day 1.
You are correct that Rhyan, Tom, Walker, Telfort, Tenuta and Jones have all been with the team for the last year or two. They are getting ready to become the next offensive line of the Green Bay Packers. It's a work in progress. Just like the team defied expectations with the WR corps and the TEs, so too will the team defy expectations with the O Line.
In his post-draft press conference last year, Brian Gutekunst specifically mentioned that the did not draft an O Line member because "we are already carrying 13 members and it is doubtful that they'll make the team." A year later, we have other players whose time it is to step up and become the next Green Bay Packers line. They've been in development for a season or two. Rasheed Walker just got a jump on everybody out of necessity.
In the meantime, Gutey will grab a lineman or two somewhere in the draft. Probably towards the middle where he'll still get "really good football players," but not the immediate impact player like a Jackson Powers-Johnson or a Graham Barton. If the offense would have taken a longer time to get it together last season and they were higher up in the draft position this year, I would have bet that they would have made a play on Joe Alt or Olu Fashanu. But once they got it together and made a playoff run, that changed things. The bigger need for the top of the draft is on defense. That means we'll probably get quality linemen further down in the draft, late Day 2 or sometime on Day 3, because the Pro Ready linemen will most likely be off the board by the time the Packers are ready to draft linemen.
Vachio
March 21, 2024 at 07:47 am
Right there with you. It's a big pet peeve of mine. I cringe every time someone talks about a draft prospect and says, "Well, they're not a finished product." No kidding? There might be 10 guys in NFL history who came in and tore it up as a rookie and continued to do so through their entire career. Peyton Manning and Brett Favre both sucked as rookies, but they went on to have OK careers because they...drumroll, please...developed.
LLCHESTY
March 20, 2024 at 04:02 pm
Since they took 6'-7" John Michels in '96 the only T they drafted in the 1st four rounds that was 6'-6" was Jason Spriggs. Forget about Mims.
Gee
March 22, 2024 at 10:43 am
Ugh i had forgotten Mr. Spriggs time in GB. shudders
MooPack
March 20, 2024 at 04:10 pm
The 3 OLinemen I favor in the draft (in each of the first 4 rounds):
1st/2nd round - King Sua.
Compare his RAS (9.38) card with Penei Sewell. Identical in every way. They are cousins and Kingsley has trained and been taught by Penei. Not bad considering Sewell was the highest rated PFF OL last year and he might have been rated the highest player. If Sua can come close to his cousin, that's a big hit. Put up 31 on bench with long arms. That's one more than JPJ with short arms. So strength is not an issue. On the downside, he probably is coming out a year early. He's only a sophomore and you can see from tape he struggles at time with balance and reaches. He may need a year, but his ceiling could be the highest in the draft. Tackle/guard experience. Start him out at RG, but should eventually be the RT of future.
3rd round - Roger Rosengarten
This might be low for him since the combine. RAS (9.61). At the Senior Bowl they had him at both RT and LT and impression was there was no drop off. Played on a Washington team that was 3rd in the country for pass blocking grade (89.0) and they only allowed one sack. Troy Fautanu (who I really like, but will probably be gone) was on the other side. Downside is he needs a year in the weight room for both lower and upper body. Had a bad game against a very good defense in the champion Michigan team, but that's one reason they are champions. He has the athleticism to be a LT, but needs experience and work on technique.
4th round - Brandon Coleman
Sleeper pick for me. Great athleticism (9.98 RAS). He is a thick guy with long arms and big hands. Strong (squats 600 and benches 400). Has Tackle/guard experience, but most likely a guard in the NFL. Was dinged a bit last year so his 2022 season looks better. Had some pressures at Tackle, but played for TCU Horn Frogs which pass a lot. I watched a play, I think against Texas, where he took a rusher and tossed him to the ground with one hand. Didn't start playing football until his Senior year in high school. Military kid. Team captain. Needs more experience. As they all do.
LLCHESTY
March 20, 2024 at 04:13 pm
I really don't understand this "bigger is better" fascination when the Packers have shown for 20 years they build good lines with averaged sized guys with plus athleticism. The chances of Jones, Telfort or Tenuta ever seeing the field for the Packers is a tiny step above nil.
The Packers cutoff for the 3-cone is usually 7.7 unless it's a round 6 or 7 player. Tenuta had a 7.75, Telfort had an 8.7 and Jones didn't do the agilities tests(wonder why?). Tenuta had a 4.71 RAS, Jones a 1.89 and Telfort a 1.59. The question shouldn't be why haven't these guys played but why are they still on the roster. They might have a chance on a power run team but expecting them to move in outside zone? No bueno.
MooPack
March 20, 2024 at 04:20 pm
I tend to agree, but then I ask myself, why are they even on the team in any capacity? Is there not one or two lineman out there that fall within the usual measurements the Packers like that are better? I don't have an answer. Maybe they do want to go bigger? Maybe a testing phase to see what they are capable of? I don't know.
Coldworld
March 20, 2024 at 05:25 pm
Jones looked plenty agile enough to me when he arrived 40+ pounds lighter. In fact it was that revelation that got him noticed. Telfort by comparison looked slow footed last year, in line with his testing and scouting knocks.
Jones weighed in at 370 at his pro day, was 355 at the Packers' minicamp and 340 by the start of training camp. One of the coaches, I think Stenovich, stated that he was 333 by preseason and the plan was to lose a small amount more. He mentioned the dramatic increase in agility and that this the enhanced mobility was striking the moment they saw him on the field. NFL protocol always lists weight at the date of testing, so he remains 370 per the website.
Tenuta is still something of a mystery, due to injuries, but he’s got shorter wingspan than the smaller and much more mobile Tom and almost 7” shorter than Jones’ and Telfort’s. He’s relatively athletic, much quicker feet than Telfort, but he needed strength work and to improve his bend when he entered the league as a 6th rounder of the Bills in 2022.
Tenuta was a bit of a shock retention for most outside commentators. He looked to have slow feet. Great length—on a par with Jones’. Slower than the others. He’s got some other nice traits, notably an ability to read blocks and adjust and good hands, but perhaps the thought was that losing some weight could enhance him too, though he was only listed at 319.
skydancer506
March 20, 2024 at 09:22 pm
"The Packers cutoff for the 3-cone is usually 7.7 unless it's a round 6 or 7 player."
- Luke Tenuta was a 6th round pick by Buffalo (Pick 209) in 2022 and claimed off waivers. Played in three games in 2022 and then spent 2023 on the IR list.
- Caleb Jones was an undrafted free agent by the Packers in 2022 and signed to the practice squad.
- Kadeem Telfort was an undrafted free agent by the Packers in 2023 and signed to the practice squad.
"The question shouldn't be why haven't these guys played but why are they still on the roster.'
- You still need people to make up the practice squad. These guys aren't going to improve unless they get snaps in practice.
My question to you is this:
"Why do you expect these people to be ready on Day 1 when they are still learning the system while on the practice squad?"
Please make your RAS comparisons to players who are ready to play. We have no idea how any of these three players would do on the RAS if they were measured today. Nobody updates the RAS after the draft. What have their workouts been since they were brought up to the practice squad? Are they more athletic than when they arrived? How has their knowledge of the system improved their performance? These are all questions that have answers inside the complex at 1265 Lombardi Avenue and not outside.
I will say this, regarding Kadeem Telfort - his college offensive line coach is now the Packers assistant offensive line coach. I would be surprised if they cut Telfort before training camp. I would not be surprised if he makes the 53 man roster this year.
NitschkeFan
March 21, 2024 at 11:22 am
@LLChesty "Jones a 1.89 and Telfort a 1.59. " Wow! I think those are INSANELY poor scores. And if you consider that both guys scored highly just in the height and weight portion of their RAS, that means their "explosion" and "speed" were amongst the absolute worst in history of the RAS.
Has anyone with such poor athleticism (when these guys train specifically to get good scores) ever amounted to anything in the modern NFL?
I just looked them up, and not only are they not fast nor explosive nor agile but they are WEAK. Rankings for the bench press had Jones score 2/10 and Telfort 2.65/10.
Anyone expecting these guys to become good NFL tackles seems to be based on more wishful thinking. There is likely going to be one poster claiming to "have done extensive study of their tape" and conclude otherwise, and contrary to 32 NFL scouting departments too.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 12:17 pm
According to 1 NFL scouting department.....the Packers.....these guys have been worth the time and money to see if they can be turned into players. They might even expect them to become"good" (whatever that means) NFL tackles, and it would be more than wishful thinking because it's their job.
Jones was actually signed to the 53 last year to keep somebody from poaching him. He's been working out for two year, losing weight, training in the weight room, learning his craft. It's possible he might have improved, and it's possible his RAS score would be better now, too.
NitschkeFan
March 21, 2024 at 12:26 pm
"According to 1 NFL scouting department.....the Packers". Well you got me there! Yes the Packers have felt that some time and minimal $ have been worth it. I think we all hope so too because we are Packers fans.
I just find those RAS numbers somewhat jarring. I don't recall ever seeing anything that low. I am sure with the past two years of training they may have improved (how could they get worse). But even if they are improved by 100% (doubt they can run or jump that much higher now), that still gets you to scores under 4. Way below anyone I've ever seen the Packers draft.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 08:13 pm
The RAS numbers are not good. Jarring. Almost like someone kind of mailed it in because they aren't worried about it.
BAMABADGER
March 20, 2024 at 04:34 pm
One of the top 5 OTs will fall to the Packers in the 1st. Draft Cooper Beebe in the 2nd and the O-line situation is solved. We have drafted two All-Pros ready to start this season. Draft an ILB in the 2nd and RB in the 3rd. Guty will work his magic after that. In Guty We Trust!
stockholder
March 20, 2024 at 04:54 pm
Why is it a problem?
You lost Runyan. But he was getting replaced.
And a back up tackle didn't make the difference
when Tom went down.
So you draft a RT and Tom can move.
At least you got better back-up.
Christian Jones played great @ senior Bowl.
But there are a lot of OTs that are going to play inside.
golfpacker1
March 20, 2024 at 08:08 pm
The Packers have sure made it clear multiple times since the end of the year that they like Toms right where he is at. I don't think they want to move him Stock.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 07:26 am
True - But they still would move him
if a emergency arrived.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 11:37 am
Get the guys to start in Rds One and Two, forget the musical chairs game. Players, not P Squad candidates. Walker can move to back up tackle, he's not the answer on the left flank. Too many sacks surrendered and penalties. He fits on the right side.. Secure the LT and move on Beebe, or Coleman to work the RG spot. Snag another center mid-rounds. The #1 priority this season is to Protect Love. He drives the team.
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 10:33 am
Gute actually referred to the possibility of Tom at LT (and Walker at right) in his post season press comments as well as Tom’s ability to play anywhere. I think all things are possible, but it will depend on how things fall with recruitment.
skydancer506
March 20, 2024 at 05:48 pm
Then what are we going to do for defense? Where are we getting our future safeties and linebackers? Our defensive secondary is a mess right now. Our safety room is shot. We have one veteran player there who hasn't played a snap for the Packers (McKinney) and two safeties who were rookies last year (Anthony Johnson Jr. and Benny Sapp III). McKinney isn't going to be able to do it all. Our cornerback room is a little better - Jaire should get better (if he gets his head out of his heinie). Hopefully they'll get to the bottom of Stokes's health issues. Valentine, Ballentine and Nixon are going to provide needed stability. Linebackers? Quay and McDuffie - then who? If one of these two goes down with injury, we're hosed. Maybe we'll convert our 1st round lineman into a linebacker.
I trust that Gutey will do what he needs to do in order to address the needs of the Green Bay Packers from most to least priority. Linebacker and Safety are the highest priorities and I expect to see him draft those positions higher on the draft board. O Line is definitely next in the priority list, but we still have bodies there who have already been developing. Unless he gets a player like Jackson Powers-Johnson who would end up replacing Myers at center, I don't see him drafting anybody until Zak Zinter, Michigan guard, at Pick 91 in the third round.
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 11:23 am
To me IOL is just as high. We have just enough to put out a line with Newman as the sole available back up.
At T, we have 3 hold overs. We don’t need them all to be great. If we are healthy probably none start, if not we need one, ideally 2 to step up as the fists and second back up. If the Packers see value in a tackle, we have always and will take one, but unlike many here, I’m not panicked at T. We also have a healthy Jenkins who has played outside successfully at LT in the event of need.
Inside is very different. Other than Jenkins, we have a C who has been at best adequate and is in his last year in a rookie deal. Then we have a RG who was bettered by Runyon comprehensively later last season. Rhyan may still improve ( I think he will) but we do not know how much and, by definition if needing to, he’d not one to guarantee adequacy.
If any one of those guys gets hurt, then all we have is Newman. Unless that is you want to take our best OL and move him. In game that might work, but it’s not a plan any team should enter the season with as first option. We need at least 5 players who are competent to play IOL. Neither Jones nor Telfort seem candidates by virtue of size. I’d say the same of Tenuta, but the team has I think tried him at RG despite being 6’8”.
So we need 2 IOL at the very least, unless you actually want Newman on the roster. One needs to be a viable starting prospect at C, unless we move our best T or G there. I’d prefer not to replace the role that way. Since our OL needs to improve, these new players need to include legitimate challengers for Rhyan and Myers not merely depth projects. IOL get hurt too.
Yes we have absolute holes at ILB and SS, but we do at IOL just as much.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 12:22 pm
We allowed 20.5 ppg last year, and I don't know how much we can improve on that, but we only averaged 22 on offense, and I'm pretty sure we can improve several points on that.
For the next several years, during the Jordan Love Window, keeping him upright and healthy is Priority #1. We're allowed to suit up 9 guys, and I'd like all 9 of them to be able to do the job. I'm willing to gamble elsewhere, but not there. Put a monster offensive line in front of Love and Jacobs and see what happens.
Alberta_Packer
March 20, 2024 at 04:52 pm
This is one of best O-line drafts in years - both in quality and depth. I fully expect Gutekunst to draft to this strength - taking 3-4 O-lineman over Day 1, 2 and 3. What I'm really interested to see is how he fortifies the interior - being the most vulnerable part of the line. Especially taking into consideration that both Jacobs and Dillon run mostly between the tackles. So is JPJ as likely at #25 as Barton? Also how does he view projects like Mims and Guyton? We won't know until the draft but it makes for great discussions and debate until that time.
As for any free agent O-line signings - I don't see it especially considering the current price(s). More likely to see what comes from the June 1st and training camp cuts.
skydancer506
March 20, 2024 at 05:53 pm
Great question regarding Mims and Guyton. I think if Gutey plays the short game for immediacy, he passes on both (assuming they are both available). If he plays the long game for draft and develop, then he grabs one of them (probably Mims since he's a Georgia boy). There are questions surrounding Mims that have to be answered though. While he has shown that he has the skills to play the position, what does his medical record say? I would be surprised if Gutey selected Mims on the medical report alone. If Mims fell to 88, he might take a chance, but highly doubtful at 25.
Alberta_Packer
March 20, 2024 at 06:45 pm
Any doubts about Mim's durability were furthered when he pulled up lame at the Combine. Most unfortunate for the kid as his draft stock most likely dropped that day - possibly as far as the 3rd.
Guyton also has a medical history to consider but has more film showing him as a real good pass protector. He's not as strong as a run blocker - as he needs to add upper-body strength - which means at least a year's intensive development.
As to your question - if Mims at 88? I think not. Guyton at 88? Yes. However Gutie may have other thoughts.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 11:48 am
Those guys are RTs. They belong in Rd three.
Alberta_Packer
March 21, 2024 at 12:49 pm
Even in the 3rd round, I'm not sure that I would draft Mims. He seems to be more risk than reward to me.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 12:59 pm
Meki Becton
TKWorldWide
March 20, 2024 at 05:47 pm
Does a lineman have to be big to be successful? Strength, arm length, quickness, balance, yes. I’d argue that line play is more reliant on technique and cohesion than individual premier athletes.
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 10:52 am
It’s very hard to succeed as a tackle without enough agility and lateral movement with balance (so quick feet). That’s the foundation on which technique builds, but it’s a continuum not a fixed requirement.
Guys like Bakh, early, and Tom are so mobile that wingspan and power is much less important. The bigger guys can be less extremely mobile in a short area but still need good foot speed and balance to unlock their wingspan and maintain the ability to position their body to exert power through leverage.
GregC
March 20, 2024 at 06:16 pm
I like it that the headline mentions depth, because that's really the issue. The Packers are returning four of five starters from an O-line that was playing quite well at the end of last season, and the projected new starter, Sean Rhyan, was a part-time player who did pretty well and has been improving. So I'm thinking that the Packers only really need one O-lineman in the first three rounds, especially considering that they could probably get some high quality depth in the later rounds. At LB and safety, they don't even have their starters nailed down yet, and they need another rotational pass rusher (and possible Preston Smith replacement for 2025).
If the board is absolutely screaming O-line at every turn during the first three rounds, then I would understand them taking two that high, and at least one of them needs to be in the interior (keeping in mind that Josh Meyers may be gone after next season), but I'm not seeing the need at O-line being quite as high as a lot of others are. Not in the first few rounds of the draft anyway.
WD
March 22, 2024 at 12:44 pm
Spot on. ILB is the only critical issue. Why settle for less take the best. COOPER!
Alberta_Packer
March 20, 2024 at 08:22 pm
Interesting in Mel Kiper's latest draft - he had Roger Rosengarten going to S.F. at #31. This seems to be a massive over reach - as his overall rank is 97. However it does alert us how the actual draft day board may significantly differ from the many amateur/ recreational mocks to date.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 12:10 pm
nfldraftbuzz has Rosengarten at #135. Huddlereport has him closer to 100. Consensus pretty much agrees with Huddlereport. Drafttek is more like #140.
There's a substantial variance the farther you get away from the top of the draft. There's usually a pretty good consensus about who the top 50-75 guys are.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 01:01 pm
Slow feet. He was schooled by speed rushers. Rd Five.
Leatherhead
March 21, 2024 at 07:48 pm
I'd like Barton and Amegadajie at #25 and #88. I'd take Cooper at #41, and the best DB I could get at #58 (Melton). And at #91, I'd take the best RB available.
WD
March 22, 2024 at 12:50 pm
Even more interesting is Kiper's pick for the Pack at 25: Laietu Latu Edge rusher who will likely fall to 25 because of medical concerns. Healthy he is a top 10 player. Would the reward be greater than the health risk? He appears to have made a full recovery.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 07:52 am
Since Gutey is in Alabama
he's got to be looking at DB.
Good Luck with that thought.
TKWorldWide
March 21, 2024 at 09:07 am
How dare gutey
Do his Due
Diligence.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 11:44 am
I don't - Expect another Savage.
Alberta_Packer
March 21, 2024 at 11:49 am
Or a McKinney
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 01:04 pm
For comparison, the drafted 'BAMA guy would be Dix....
Alberta_Packer
March 21, 2024 at 01:49 pm
I recall, Clinton-Dix made the all-rookie team and was a 2nd team All-Pro. So a great start to his career. However, the rest of his career was not.
TKWorldWide
March 21, 2024 at 06:43 pm
Not all ‘Bama’s are created equal.
Or, will Drake Maye be a bust because Mitch Trubisky was?
Fun Fact: “Trubisky” rhymes with “whiskey” (which is sometimes spelled “whisky”)
Coldworld
March 21, 2024 at 07:11 pm
Or Kool-Aid perhaps in this case
Alberta_Packer
March 21, 2024 at 09:37 pm
Kool-Aid or OL or DeJean at #25?
TKWorldWide
March 21, 2024 at 06:39 pm
Well, here’s a
Savage Retort for
You
Boo Yah!
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 12:45 pm
Fix the Fort,Protect Love:
#34 Jordan Morgan LT Arizona
#41 Cooper Beebe OG K-State
#59 Kam Kinchens FS Miami
#68 Payton Wilson MLB NC State
#88 Bucky Irving RB Oregon
#91 Mc Jackson DT A&M
#120 B. Coleman OG TCU
#126 Jaden Hicks SS WASU
#169 M.Kamara Edge Colorado S.
#219 Kimani Vidal RB Troy
#245 Jordan McGee LB Temple
#247 A. Gould PR Oregon S.
#255 Nelson Caesar Edge Houston
I was tempted to add another OG, OT from the field like Javion Cohen and Matt Goncalves. Reload the Berm.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 12:53 pm
Actually if he does what TT did.
He'll trade the #25 for #33 and 101.
Will give up DeJean and take a lesser DB.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 01:08 pm
The real priority is the O line. If Love goes down for the count, you can look to the top five in the 2025 draft.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 01:40 pm
Using Draft Teks big Board and YOUR PICKS
#34. Jackson Powers-Johnson C
#41. Payton Wilson. ILB NC
#59. Javon Bullard. S Geo
#68. Calan Bullock. S USC
#88. Zac Zinter. G Mi
#91. Christian jJones OT. Texas
#120 Jaylen Wright RB. Tenn
#126. Mason McCormick G. SD
#169. Nat Watson ILB. Mis
#219. Jowon Biggs. DT CInn
#245. Caden Wallace. OT. Penn
#247 Isiah Davis. RB. SD.
#255. Jesse McClLellan. RB Bama
golfpacker1
March 21, 2024 at 04:52 pm
Great draft JJ.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 12:57 pm
Arnold will be gone. Best not waste a One Pick on Kool-Aid. Sorry Dobber. Mc Clellan would be the dark horse candidate.
golfpacker1
March 21, 2024 at 09:26 am
Gutey is probably looking for more Safety options too after Nubin $hit down his leg at his Pro Day. RAS 2.91??
That is shocking, but then so was Kinchens combine performance. Back to the tape.
stockholder
March 21, 2024 at 11:23 am
It wasn't his forty time as much as the 3 cone.
Compare that to X.
jannesbjornson
March 21, 2024 at 12:06 pm
He's the box safety, not the one-high guy. Film, not a Track Meet tells the story of ability. He has three years of All--Big Ten evidence. He may stay in rd one. Some are moving him to Spags @ # 32. Maybe the 49rs want him to replace Gipson in the backend?
Alberta_Packer
March 21, 2024 at 12:08 pm
Generally I prefer a better 3 cone time than a 40. I think the Packers do as well.
Alberta_Packer
March 21, 2024 at 11:57 am
He's still draftable but now a round or two later. On film - Nubin always looked like a box safety to me. So Nubin and Kinchens at 88 and 91? Re-visiting Cam Chancellor's RAS - 3.22.
TOMMY'63
March 21, 2024 at 07:30 pm
Hope they use a high pick to replace bachk
WD
March 22, 2024 at 12:39 pm
Don't waste our first pick on an O-lineman. The draft is very deep in the O- line. The only rational pick is to take the highest rated ILB at 25. Preferably Cooper first. Moreover I doubt Payton Wilson will be there at 41. I just don't understand why so many do not realize that we have a desperate need at ILB. How soon we forget that GB had one of the worst records in stopping the run. We can add DEPTH for 0-line in the second round to appease those that are obsessed with the position. The Packers have never historically drafted high on O-Line with the exception of Tony Mandarich. The worst pick in the history of the NFL draft. Nuff said.
Madrcat
March 25, 2024 at 07:11 pm
Why do I never hear comments concerning another of the O-line elephants in the room?
Our long snapper sucked last year. Just adequate enough to get the ball in the vicinity of the holder, or the punter, luckily, but never consistently! Someone go back if possible and determine how many missed PAT's and FG's were due to the snap being behind or to the right side shoulder of the holder. As compared to at least being in Whelan's hands or chest. Just saying, the guy wasn't very consistent and I think we need better if we want our kicking game to improve.