Packers Returning Receivers Deserve Benefit of the Doubt for Down 2024
There is important context to be applied which helps explain why Green Bay's receivers did not progress in 2024 and provides hope for 2025.
By markoldacres
At this point it is well known that the Packers’ young wide receivers did not live up to expectations in 2024, after impressing in 2023.
Most people projected Jayden Reed, Dontayvion Wicks, Romeo Doubs and Christian Watson to take a real step forward entering their second and third years in the NFL respectively. Almost across the board, Green Bay’s receivers were worse in 2024 than they were previously.
The most glaring issue was drops, with the quartet having 26 of them in 2024, averaging a drop rate of 12.1% between them.
It has been discussed plenty that Love’s 2024 season, and specifically his stat line, was significantly impacted by the plague of dropped passes by his receivers, but what does not get talked about enough is the flipside of that argument.
The context which must be added to the struggles Green Bay’s receivers had last year is that they played with a quarterback who was injured essentially from start to finish.
Love hurt his knee in week one, meaning Malik Willis then had to play the next two games. He then injured his groin in week eight, leaving the game and again forcing Willis into the lineup. Finally, Love suffered an elbow injury on his throwing arm in the regular season finale.
He was reluctant to admit it, but it sounds like the various ailments hampered Love all season. They cost him practice time, and he was never able to get truly into a rhythm at any point in the year.
This lack of time on the practice field, as well as missing time games or having to leave them early, very likely had an impact on Love’s cohesion with his pass catchers.
From their perspective, it cannot have been easy to play with different QBs with different skillsets, which meant the game plan changing, sometimes with no notice if Love had to exit mid-game.
It was a turbulent, disjointed season for the entire offense, and it is difficult to separate one position group from the collective group in terms of assigning blame.
The sour taste of how the receivers played in 2024 is what sticks in the memory of Packers fans as it is the most recent information they have, but it does not change the fact that Green Bay’s young group has also put some excellent tape out there.
Wicks was terrific as a rookie, ranking 26th among 128 qualified receivers in PFF grade at 77.8. He has the ability to become an elite route runner, and is already very good. The upside with Wicks is clear if he can simply catch the ball more consistently.
Reed ranked 20th when playing out of the slot out of 64 qualified players in 2023 with a 78.3 PFF grade, and only four of the players ranked ahead of him had as many or more targets in the slot: CeeDee Lamb, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Keenan Allen and Rashee Rice.
He had his own issues with drops and dealt with injuries towards the end of the year. He can still be one of the top slot receivers in the league.
Doubs is not flashy, but is a reliable target for his quarterback and has excelled in the red zone, while Watson has been an extremely dangerous big play threat when healthy. Each receiver has given plenty of reason to believe in them.
It is no secret the group needs to play better this year, and adding two receivers in the draft will only make the competition stronger, but it is important to acknowledge there are explanations for last year’s underwhelming performances, and reason to believe they can rebound in 2025.
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Mark Oldacres is a sports writer from Birmingham, England and a Green Bay Packers fan. You can follow him on twitter at @MarkOldacres
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Comments (116)
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 06:40 am
"meaning Malik Willis then had to play the next two games"
Does someone know how to find out the drop rate when Willis was playing? Would be good to see a drop rate in practice but I'm sure that's impossible. Love and the receivers will be ok. I was dumb and I didn't realize he missed allot of practices too. They seemed to always show him a participant. Probably for scouting purposes. Putting 2 and 2 together is a little easier to look back at now.
As for the receivers to give credit for what GreenGold would say: "CTFB!!!"
Cheezehead72
June 02, 2025 at 07:15 am
The drop rate for Love was 8.2% where Willis was 9.1% according to SI. Of the 28 drops 25 were to receivers.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 07:30 am
Thanks. Wonder why he says "12.1 average drop rate") above? Because he was just including wide receivers? If Willis had more drops (now that I think about it) it could be related to less practice reps too, so my theory is shot to hell anyway.
Cheezehead72
June 02, 2025 at 07:34 am
I noticed that to. That is why I provided the resource. I am believing that the high drop rate is more on the receivers and not the QB or the QB being hurt. The key is the coaches and the players need to evaluate all of the drops and determine the cause and what they need to do to correct the cause.
Oppy
June 02, 2025 at 06:16 pm
Not sure, maybe he took his numbers for the two WRs who were the worst offenders (Wicks, Reed) and averaged their drop rate percentage as individuals as opposed to the drop percentage on the entire season across all targets?
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 07:37 am
One site last week had them at 35 total drops on the year, 3rd highest overall. They were 30th in attempts so by percentage it was probably the highest drop rate.
I've said a couple times I'd like to see about five attempts more a game and with a more efficient running game that's easily possible. Can't have all the drops again though.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 09:55 am
Five more attempts.
2000 passing attempts: 526
2021: 593
2022: 563
2023: 581
2024: 479.
Five more attempts would put us at 564 for 2025. I don't think that is in the cards.
Last year, the 6 games leading up to the break, we threw 54, 26, 33, 32, 22, and 39. 39 and 54 were losses.
After the break, we threw 17, 23, 28, 20, 27, 28, and 30. We were 0-3 on the season when we threw 33 or more passes. We were 7-1 when we threw less than 30, 9-1 if you include Willis' two games.
I can't imagine why anybody would want us to throw more when we win more games where we throw less. And I don't think that's where LaFleur is headed. I think we'll actually throw LESS than 479 passes, less than 28/game. I wouldn't be surprised if we threw 25 or less passes in half our games this year.
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 11:05 am
So, the more you take the pass from Love, the chances of winning grows significantly. Can that all be put on the WR group, or is Love simply not what is expected.
Throw less could work against the bottom teams, but the better will score, and they'll have to pass, and if more passing only ends in a loss, then the QB, WR group, and HC need to be seriously scrutinized. Please, before you say the defense ranking, they gave up game winning points to the better teams.
PearlyBakerBest
June 02, 2025 at 01:53 pm
So stats and rankings are cool as long as they prove your point. Got it.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 06:33 pm
I think it's kind of a small sample size to draw a conclusion like that. I would point out that the teams in this league that threw the least all made the playoffs:
Eagles, Ravens, Packers, Steelers, all attempted fewer than 500 passes on the season, all of them made the playoffs. It's a strategy, one that works. It's a choice, and it certainly looks to me like the Packers have made that choice.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 01:57 pm
The Lions had 551 pass attempts and 534 rushing attempts last year while the Packers had 479 and 526 respectively. I definitely would have rather had the Lions offense last year.
The Packers had the 3rd fewest pass attempts in the league last year and the two teams with less, the Eagles and Ravens, both have running QBs. You can believe they drafted WRs in the 1st and 3rd rounds so they could throw less but I choose not to. If Love stays healthy I bet they hit at least 520 PAs.
Way to cherry pick stars though. If you're throwing 39 or 54 passes in a game it's because you're behind or gave Dan Marino at QB. They averaged 28 attempts a game last year, simply running it more efficiently and staying on the field a little more could push that to 32-33 very easily. LaFleur isn't going to suddenly turn into Woody Hayes.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 02:05 pm
There's another side to passing more. It will keep stronger legs under Jacobs later in the season. He will want the ball but is old enough to know it will extend his longevity.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 06:41 pm
Then go root for the Lions. That's not the way we're going to roll here.
520 pass attempts would be about two more passes a game. That's less than five (2 < 5). You keep assuming that the Packers want more passing attempts....I don't think that's true. I think the opposite is true, and we'd like to throw fewer passes.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 10:05 pm
"Then go root for the Lions."
Maybe try not to be so childish.
Oppy
June 02, 2025 at 06:22 pm
This post is like a perfect little encapsulation of the statement, "coorelation does not equal causation."
dobber
June 02, 2025 at 08:22 am
So...essentially statistically insignificant
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 09:58 am
Statistically insignificant, maybe. But when you watch the games, and you see how many drives died because of dropped passes, and how many points that kept off the board, and it's a significant number.
IMO, it was the the #1 drag on the offense. Not inadequate blocking, not poor play by the QB, not a weak running game.
An old coach once said "When you throw the ball, three things can happen and two of them are bad." It's still true.
HawkPacker
June 02, 2025 at 10:22 am
Woody Hayes!
Vachio
June 02, 2025 at 10:29 am
What's always bugged me about that old adage is the same thing is true of running the ball. Your 3 possible outcomes: Gain, no gain/loss, fumble. 2 of the 3 are bad.
I agree about the drops. For whatever reason, our drops seemed to come at critical moments and killed drives. I really feel like drops should be weighted. There's a big difference between a drop on 1st and 10 in the opening drive and a drop on 3rd and 5 just outside of FG range when down by 2. Seemed like most of ours came when it hurt the most.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 11:00 am
All true.
I go back to when Mike McCarthy first showed up, and he talked about limiting the number of "negative plays" the offense has during a game. Obviously, any play where you spend a down and don't get any closer to the endzone is a negative play.
Or, any play where you take a penalty or a sack that moves you farther away.....that's a negative play. Or a turnover.
In a game where you run less than 64 plays, having 10 or 12 of those plays result in negative plays is a big chunk of that.
Add up our offensive penalties (112 for 836 yards, or about 7 penalties for 50 yards per game) Add in sacks (22), add in the incomplete passes, (170, 10/game). Add a dozen or so turnovers on the season. That's a lot of negative plays in a game. By my count, it's looking like 15-20 negative plays per game and that's without even factoring in for running plays that gain no yardage (I don't think we have a lot of those, but some).
Imagine you're nailing a deck, and you swing that hammer 64 times, and you miss the nail entirely 20 times, and you hit yourself on the thumb a couple of times. Is that good? Well, that's what we're doing.
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 11:23 am
"Imagine you're nailing a deck, and you swing that hammer 64 times, and you miss the nail entirely 20 times, and you hit yourself on the thumb a couple of times. Is that buono? Well, that's what we're doing".
It would behoove you put away your tool belt, and to go on Angie's List or elsewhere, to find someone that knows how to swing a hammer. So, again, with this being a mindset of yours, how do they have the pieces in place?
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 11:32 am
Can we find a QB on Angi's list, or can she play?
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 11:39 am
We've gotten some from there, or it seemed that way.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 12:15 pm
Or pick up the nail gun.
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 12:31 pm
Hmm, visions of Griswold hanging Xmas lights.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 02:02 pm
Anybody that nails deck boards down deserves to be fired, especially in climates with snow and ice. Cordless drills have been around for at least 40 years.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 02:10 pm
This analogy is going out of control. Think it's time for me to get hammered.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 02:23 pm
Well if you get screwed I hope it's in a good way!
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 11:12 am
Yes, but that's before they make the pass game Offense into a video game, and now the WR's aren't what they used to be, no matter the stats, which have been made achievable by design by the NFL rules restricting Defenses. Average players putting up ridiculous stats, it's akin to the steroid era in MLB, average guys hitting 40 homers etc.
dobber
June 02, 2025 at 03:28 pm
Sorry, I meant the difference between the QBs was not statistically significant.
Oppy
June 02, 2025 at 06:25 pm
Certainly not in drop percentage, but with the low number of pass attempts the Willis has (57) one could argue that part of the equation is teetering on statistically insignificant.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 07:21 am
These are all good points, although the GM (presumably backed up by the coaches) made a very clear statement when he drafted receivers in the first and third rounds. The Packers needed some high-end talent at WR, and now they have it. They will need the new guys, especially Matthew Golden, to contribute sooner rather than later.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 07:32 am
I hope they don't have to risk Golden on special teams. I know that speed would be fun to watch, but is it worth it with what that speed dimension brings to the offense?
Cheezehead72
June 02, 2025 at 07:37 am
I am a firm believer you do whatever it takes to win. If you have to take chances do it. If Golden is our best option at returner use him. You cannot play this game scared. If you play or you game plan half way you will not win. Play all in or go home.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 02:25 pm
I think a lot depends on how much he's doing on offense. If he's a starter playing 75% of the snaps or more you probably don't chance it but if he's just playing as a change of pace player and occasional deep threat you let him contribute on STs.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 09:59 am
What percentage of ST plays result in injuries and is it significantly higher vs other football plays? I ask because I don't know...maybe someone has those statistics.
It seems to be an accepted narrative that top players playing STs is risking them to injury. It could be true or perhaps the difference is negligible.
Cheezehead72
June 02, 2025 at 11:04 am
In a 2022 article it stated 7% of injuries happen on kickoff and punt plays. Now that is high being as STs account for 17 - 18% of all the plays. The most are knee and head injuries.
Returning kicks and punts are more dangerous than receiving.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 12:26 pm
That's interesting. So shouldn't 18% of injuries then be predicted for STs?
crayzpackfan
June 02, 2025 at 12:41 pm
That's the wrong question to be asking as to Golden returning kicks.. The question to ask is how many injuries happen to the kick returner and separately, how many injuries happen to the punt returner? They should not be lumped together. I think there is more danger to a punt returner than a kick returner IMO.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:16 pm
So what is the factual answer to your question if you view it as the right one to ask? Logic would lead me to believe KR is more injury prone given how much the NFL has mangled the rules. The punt game has remained the same.
I personally do not know the stats.
crayzpackfan
June 02, 2025 at 02:01 pm
I guess what I meant to get across was that folks were saying Golden should not return kicks saying that it is too risky. So someone brought up stats of special teams injuries for both PR and KR combined while seemingly including all players on ST's injuries. This doesn't answer the question on whether Golden is at a greater risk. We need to find the stats on returners only while not bunching together PR and KR together.
I'm just assuming that PR is more dangerous because the returner is in the open field all by himself. He is a sitting duck unless a fair catch is signaled. On a KR, they have more time to look upfield and make choices. Also, KR's often do not even return the kick. It goes out of the end zone. PR's almost always get fielded causing more opportunity to take a hit. But no, I don't know if I am right on this.
Edit: I read or heard on the NFL network that there were less injuries on kickoffs with last years rule changes compared to the previous year. Small sample.
Brewcity_BearsFan
June 02, 2025 at 12:39 pm
People forget the Vikings originally used Adrian Peterson as a kick returner. Didn't seem to hurt his career.
dblbogey
June 02, 2025 at 01:17 pm
And we inexplicably used Amari Rodgers as a returner for 1 1/2 years, which was 1 1/2 years too long. I sometimes wonder why our coaches make obviously poor personnel decisions and are way too slow to correct. Like watching incompetent clowns try to play OL while Zach Tom and Yosh Nijman sat on the bench..
Guam
June 02, 2025 at 07:49 am
"........the GM made a very clear statement when he drafted receivers in the first and third rounds."
Thumbs up GregC!
Yes there may have been some QB problems last year, but it is very clear where the front office places most of the blame. I hope Wicks and Reed get their dropsies figured out and have a great third year, but the pressure is on.
BuckyBadger
June 02, 2025 at 08:51 am
We will find out of they have high end talent. Can't anoint Golden that already.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 09:39 am
Just anoint his speed. Can't teach that.
That and a few other things are why I couldn't make the step to the NFL myself. I didn't quite have the right equipment. Couldn't even carry it.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 12:19 pm
Yes, Golden has high end talent. It remains to be seen whether that translates to a successful NFL career. I'm not anointing anybody.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:19 pm
You aren't? He's a first, first round WR for the Packers in a very long time! Pour the oil on his head already Greg!
NickPerry
June 02, 2025 at 07:44 am
I like the articles Mark put's out and I normally agree with much of what he says. This piece by Mark just seems like a bunch of excuses though. First for Love, then the WR's. Now I'll admit. Love injuries probably did hamper him much of the season, but for ALL the WR's to not make even the slightest jump forward, some even regress is on the WR's AND the coaching staff.
Ryan Mahaffey was hired as the WR coach in 2024. He was the OC for Northern Iowa before being hired as a quality control coach on the Packers in 2022. Hey, maybe the guy is a hell of a football coach but with all the youth on this team and in the WR room, I'd would have rather seen a proven WR position coach coaching these kids up.
Hey maybe they all take a huge step forward INCLUDING Jordan Love. But if a bunch of so-so results come back from the WR and QB positions in 2025, then it's time to look HARD at the staff. I've never been all that fond of the asst. coaches MLF hires but that's me, I prefer experience.
There's no more excuses. It's time for consistent play from Love and the WRs! GO PACK GO!
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 08:00 am
"I've never been all that fond of the asst. coaches MLF hires but that's me, I prefer experience."
Do you think it's because he doesn't want anyone who would challenge his decisions? I didn't mind his hires so much as how long a leash he gives them and not holding them accountable.
At least the DC isn't afraid to make changes. If that wasn't done as an ass covering.
dobber
June 02, 2025 at 08:23 am
From my perspective, these guys are paid handsomely to catch the football.
They're professionals.
Catch the football.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 10:23 am
Come on, Dobber...you are being unreasonable now. ;-))
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 11:01 am
LOL. You finally gave away your identity to me. Don't worry. Unless it's an extreme amount of bribery I won't reveal it. Would never out my old union rep.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:27 pm
It's in the mail...
NFLfan
June 02, 2025 at 08:49 am
MLF shows a lack of urgency re: his hiring practices. He holds on to subpar coaches until fans are literally screeching-Barry, Rebrovich.
I've been 'screeching' all year about his lackadaisical approach; he does not cast a wide net-he interviewed 1-2 QB coaches before going with a back-up QB, 'offensive assistant' who was already on his staff (Mannion), re-hired Getsy who failed x2 elsewhere & retained Bisaccia. Stenavich is not an offensive play-caller though I guess he's been promoted to run-caller-why is he qualified to take on that role? McHaffey? What makes him the best WR coach?
Meanwhile, the Lions, Vikes, Bears are sitting w/in shouting distance making big decisions.
Are there any offensive coaches on the level of Anthony Campanile whom other teams noticed and poached?
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 09:52 am
It's hard to make judgments on assistant coaches because almost everything they do is behind closed doors. It's also hard to get perspective without studying this issue in-depth, which I don't intend to do. Do other head coaches generally conduct more interviews for assistant coaching jobs than LaFleur does?
Most of these coaches circulate around the league for years, continually getting hired and fired by various teams. Without knowing much about them, it's hard to judge them because there are so many factors, such as the quality of the organizations they have worked for and the quality of the players they have coached.
NFLfan
June 02, 2025 at 11:09 am
@Greg-
I think, as fans, we need to have as much information regarding coaches as we do players. Coaching is under-discussed and it often seems to me that some fans feel it is not allowed in 'polite company'.
Very good teams do not keep under-performing coaches and the coaches know it.There is much more turn-over on superior teams in an attempt to root out the under-performers. The sports media is talking daily about firings. It doesn't take these teams long to cut their losses. Green Bay (MLF) does not move at an urgent enough pace, IMO.
Once again, if the players are average, which is true about many GB players, coaching needs to take on a much more prominent role. I think MLF is going to experience a lack of readiness again because he has not upgraded his offensive staff nor held them sufficiently accountable.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 12:44 pm
So there's a positive correlation between the quality of a franchise and the number of assistant coaches it fires? Has anyone actually studied this?
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 01:15 pm
I think the better the franchise the more coaches get poached. MLF had whole staffs poached and maybe decided to try under the radar ones, so he'd get continuity for a couple seasons. It's just started to affect the Lions.
That experiment might have failed. Let's put the OC back on the line and the line coach back in Chicago.
We guessed here and the poster's articles said that we'd be lucky to keep the new DC for more than two seasons.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:26 pm
Hafley is already on NFL teams' radar as a potential HC.
If Policy's new policy is to make Gutey an actual GM in the mold of Wolf and TT...and the Packers flounder again in the playoffs even as the D continues to improve...would he let Hafley be poached by another team?
It is not popular to discuss, but I have this feeling if BG is made a true GM in July, LaFleur's X Chair is going to warm up considerably.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 01:41 pm
If Policy puts Gutekunst in charge of the head coach, he will essentially be demoting LaFleur. It would be weird for LaFleur to be below Gute after they've been equals all this time. That's why I don't think we will see a structural change until LaFleur's tenure with the Packers has come to an end, one way or another. And I certainly don't think the change in structure would be made in July, just before the season starts. The time to make moves like that is shortly after the season ends.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:52 pm
Thanks for the response, Matt!
I am sure LaFleur would agree with you. He's very status quo too.
Oppy
June 02, 2025 at 06:40 pm
It would be great to go back to the Harlan model.
The President handles the business side, and hires / fires the GM.
The GM is the top of ALL football decisions.
The GM hires his HC, and the GM allows the HC to run his system with the coaches he so chooses to do so with.
The HC tells the GM what types of players they need for the system to run, they work together to identify and prioritize talent, but the final personnel decisions in terms of signing, releasing, drafting, extending are the GM's call.
If the GM thinks there's a problem with the job the HC is doing, he can intervene or fire the HC. Otherwise, he stays out of his way for the most part. Again, talent acquisition is the primary mesh between the HC and the GM.
If the President feels the GM is doing a poor job, he can opt to fire the GM and replace him. Otherwise, the President stays out of the GM's way for the most part.
Let football people do football things. Let business people do business things.
Frankly, I don't believe for a minute that MLF and Gute have ever been "equals" in this deal, so much as they both had to report to Murphy. At the end of the day, it has felt to me as though MLF has had the minority power in this arrangement since day one.
For what it's worth, I also don't care if MLF would feel like he was demoted. I believe in the Harlan model, it saved this franchise. I also believe Murphy's model came very close to seriously setting this franchise back. I am glad he finally 'woke up' to the realities surround this team and allowed the GM to do what the GM clearly wanted to do for a few years- I think the HC also secretly wanted similar moves made.
As the cap on it, I have zero concerns about how MLF and Gute would work together, because I 100% trust that Gute would honor the harlan model and allow MLF to do his thing and nothing would change much in their current working relationship.
Russ Ball? Now THAT's the guy who would have a fit. I think he's been into the power-brokering game more than Gute or MLF. I think Ball has been the wrench in the gearworks for a number of years during the transition- he wanted the power when Ted's was shrinking and I believe ball is the wyrmtongue in Murphy's ear.
Bitternotsour
June 02, 2025 at 02:53 pm
Yes, of course. Assistant coach interviews should be zoom accessible to fans, or perhaps it can be more like American Idol and there can be fan voting!
Capital idea there NFLfan. There should be a resource like PFF but for assistant coaches so you can assess hiring in real time, and your voice (just as it is in personnel decisions) will be heard.
Similarly, you should be consulted on play calls - I mean, why not.
BuckyBadger
June 02, 2025 at 08:50 am
If this is the case why did the team draft a WR in the 1st and 3rd rounds?
NFLfan
June 02, 2025 at 09:47 am
@BB-They have failed to draft high-end WRs for many years so the cupboard was a bit bare. These new WRs will require 2-3 years of 'seasoning'. Golden cannot be expected to carry the team as a rookie.
porupack
June 02, 2025 at 09:44 am
Hard to know...we can go in circles arguing. Your point is correct though, that it is all interrelated...and any piece can alter; improve or worsen the cyclical responses. I tend toward faulting Jordan Love...as it seemed that he really wasn't in sync this year, and seemed to make questionable decisions, even whether to take a 15 yard scramble or chuck it down field....(INT). When you say "benefit of the doubt", I say no. I say, you are what you were until you prove you're different. So the WRs are medicre (good as shown by some stats, not good by other stats) until they prove otherwise. Same with JLove. You can't live for long on a late season explosion (2023)...and he regressed last year....(as you say, some fault is shared by WRs, which also must include Oline protection). Its a new year, and everyone has a chance to start again. No one is more important than JLove to bring the energy, leadership, high standards of expectation, to that QB - WR equation. Doubt will be there until it is erased.
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 09:55 am
Drafting two WR's in the first and third rounds says doubt is very high for a couple, and benefit for a couple others is minimal.
There is never a shortage of excuses, also known as reasons for some, but it seems that one is hardly ever mentioned, the one that tells you that some aren't as good as the masses optimistically needed to believe. The longer it takes, the longer moving forward becomes prohibitive, and not limited to the WR group, but all departments of the Packers.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 10:00 am
IT also says that Romeo Doubs and Christian Watson are in the final year of their contract, and that Reed and Wicks will come due the following year. At what point should the team be drafting and developing replacements?
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 10:25 am
Yes, so tell me again how this team has all its pieces in place.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 11:05 am
I think this team is getting their pieces in place. Not in place yet. Even they know they need to get it right. Trying to drastically change/improve the O-line being the biggest. Heck just admitting and moving on from Josh Myers was a big improvement.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 12:14 pm
It always takes LaFleur so very long to admit mistakes and/or act on performance consistently below expectations. He is an incredibly personable and affable man...probably to a fault. A HC must, at times, be the SOB. All effective leaders need to be.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 01:26 pm
OK, Taryn. I'm a former Special Education teacher and I'm used to explaining and reexplaining.
LAST YEAR, we had problems with depth on the Oline. Many of us knew it, and talked about it. But we were lucky enough to make it through the season with only 6 guys. When we lost our best offensive lineman, we had to replace him with a guy who couldn't play. That was LAST YEAR
So we've gone out and added some people to fortify our offensive line depth THIS YEAR.
XXXXX
AT WR, nobody could have predicted or prepared for the fact that right at the end of the season, we'd lose one of our top 3 WRs, and two more would leave the game injured against Philadelphia. That was LAST YEAR.
We've added two more WRs .......THIS YEAR.
THIS YEAR, the pieces are in place. Reed, Golden, Wicks, Williams, Doubs. Kraft and Musgrave. Jacobs, Wilson, Lloyd. A stronger Oline, and a deeper bench,than LAST YEAR.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:35 pm
My wife is a former Special Ed teacher.
That work requires incredible patience and empathy. Exactly how you respond to those to respond to you.
I am imagining Lombardi teaching Special Ed now :-)
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 01:46 pm
Lombardi taught high school Latin and Physics. I'd like to see the hands of everybody who could do that. Oh, then he also coached football.
I don't know about patience and empathy. I know that impatience doesn't help at all. It's like solving a big puzzle, and you keep trying to figure out where the pieces fit. You're going to make many trial-and-error mistakes.
Lombardi would have been a good teacher now, but I wonder how'd he'd handle all the bullshit. Because there is a bunch of it.
Oppy
June 02, 2025 at 06:47 pm
I'm a former special education student.
If not for students like myself, neither Leatherhead nor your wife would have developed he incredible patience and empathy to begin with.
:)
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 02:14 pm
You can't say things are better this year because they brought in some new players. They do that every year and every year they have the same issues, which is what you say you specialized in, repeating and trying to explain why it's different every year. Well, it hasn't been for a long time now. Let me explain to you, this year hasn't happened yet, and just saying they improved doesn't mean squat, until they prove it. It would appear your students never progressed, but rather learned that status quo is fine, as long as you say/believe it isn't.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 02:31 pm
I'm not comparing this year's June team to last year's January team. I'm comparing June to June.
1) At QB, are the Packers in better shape today than they were a year ago? Absolutely. Love is more experienced, and we have Willis, who we didn't have a year ago.
2) Is the starting offensive line better? Objectively, Yes. We didn't have Banks or Belton last year. Morgan was a rookie we didn't know much about, and now the coaches know a lot more about him than they did a year ago. Rhyan has shown that he is a decent starter at RG. So that's another yes.
3) At this time last year, none of had seen Jacobs in a Packers uniform. Now,everybody has a better understanding of what he brings. So are we better off at RB than a year ago? I think so.
Only time will tell what we have in January, but the Packers have done a good job of putting us in better shape at numerous positions than we were a year ago.
dblbogey
June 02, 2025 at 01:23 pm
Watson will miss most of the season. We have no idea if he'll be the same and he's had injuries his entire career. Doubs is one concussion or other issue from being finished, Reed, Who disappeared in the 2nd half of last season, is worried about his next contract and how many balls will get thrown his way. Wicks can get open but can't seem to catch the ball. I'd say there were plenty of reasons to draft Golden and double down in the 3rd round.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 01:53 pm
I basically agree with 3/4 of your assessment, but you are wrong about Jayden Reed. He hired a new agent who met with some folks from the Packers front office. Sounds like it was a pretty routine meeting.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 02:13 pm
Watson took part in some team drills last week. Maybe he's not back until November but it's looking like he'll be back sooner barring any setbacks.
Guam
June 02, 2025 at 02:17 pm
There was a report in our local Madison, WI newspaper that stated that Watson was at OTAs and doing individual workouts already. No team drills yet, but the article opined Watson appeared ahead of schedule and may be back sooner than expected.
No medical qualification to the article, just a reporter's observation but still reasonably good news.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 02:19 pm
This is chapter and verse. Preach. Watson will absolutely miss at least half the season and we have no idea if he'll be the same or not.
Doubs...the Packers should release him. He is one hard shot from being done, and if he survives the season, he'll be a FA . He's not part of the future of the team, and by releasing him the Packers will save $3.4M and only lose 170K in guaranteed money. And then, it's not on the Packers if he plays somewhere else and takes another head shot, and they get to keep a younger, healthier, cheaper prospect on the roster.
Reed, Wicks, Golden and Williams are the Big 4 at this point , and two of them are rookies. I think Reed and Wicks have to step up big, play over 50 snaps/game, and carry the load. Golden's speed will pull a safety out of the way, at the minimum, but Wicks and Reed have to play like they've been around the track before.
WestCoastPackerBacker
June 02, 2025 at 03:10 pm
Why would you release the most experienced WR on the team, who has shown great chemistry with Love? And get nothing in return? They don’t need additional salary cap space right now. Even if they don’t intend to extend Doubs, they have nothing to lose by playing him this season. If he gets hurt, that’s a sad and tough outcome but it’s not a given. Maybe he stays healthy and leaves in free agency and they get a comp pick. Golden and Williams are not the big four until they can show they belong. Golden is more ready than Willams and they need guys with experience until the new guys grow into their roles.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 06:54 pm
Why would I release the most experienced WR on the team? Because he's also the most expensive and he has a big medical redflag. Because he's in the final year of his contract and will be a FA next year.
Nothing to lose by playing Doubs? Other than $3.4M? Wouldn't the team be better off using the roster spot for somebody who is going to be around for the next couple of years?
Here's the deal. Because we play two or three WRs on just about every snap, that's a total of 160 or so snaps for WRs. Four guys doing 40 snaps a game works. The 5th guy can be your returner. The 6th guy on 53 man squad and inactive.
That's with all four guys playing all 17 games and playing at least 40 snaps. More likely, IMO, is that Doubs and Wicks will have to look like they've been here two years, and Golden and Williams will have to show what they were drafted for
crayzpackfan
June 02, 2025 at 02:32 pm
That 3rd round pick from TCU had all kinds of drop issues in college. If GB isn't careful, our WR room might acquire the nickname of the Butterfinger Five or a Box of Dropsicles. Hope that doesn't happen though.
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 03:08 pm
I think this is misinformation and encourage people to check for themselves.
He caught 60 passes in 12 games. He was targeted 84 times in 12 games....seven times a game, catching 5, mostly for shorter gains. It's a long handoff.
So,60 out of 84 looks to be over 70%. Of the 24 incompletes, I don't know how many were bad throws, good plays by the defense, etc, but that's still a pretty good catch rate.
I cannot find better data. May be somebody else has it.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 03:21 pm
The "targets" stat doesn't tell us anything about drops. There are several reasons why a receiver who is targeted does not make the catch. Drops is only a small part of that. If you want to use statistics to discuss a receiver's drops, you should start by stating how many times he actually dropped passes and go from there.
With Williams, I think it is a legitimate concern, but I'm hopeful that it can be fixed.
crayzpackfan
June 02, 2025 at 04:00 pm
Misinformation? Savion Williams' drop rate at TCU in 2024 was 11.8%, meaning he dropped 8 passes out of 83 targets. Watch his film. Most of his drops were easy catches on short yardage out passes, slants and the like. Where his drop rate is good is the contested catches.
HawkPacker
June 02, 2025 at 09:55 am
' is that they played with a quarterback who was injured essentially from start to finish.'
Something is not quite right with that statement. Green Bay is kind of famous for being very conservative with player injuries. They don't want an injured player on the field and generally wait for the player to get properly healed.
Willis the QB won two games for the packers and he looked very good doing it. If Love was still injured, why not let Willis get the start?
Leatherhead
June 02, 2025 at 10:02 am
I'm kind of with you there. If you can only play well when you are 100% healthy, then maybe being an NFL QB isn't the right job for you. It's a rough game and people get hurt and they play through it.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 10:30 am
Yep. That goes for all football positions.
There are injuries that prevent completing football plays and there are aches and pains...nagging issues you can play through or prefer not to...because they hurt some.
Jenks is an example of a Packer that plays through them. Then there is Alexander.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 10:18 am
I can understand playing hurt if your 75% helps the team more than the backup, but in order for that to work out, you'd have to be able to get the reps in practice. If the backup is taking those reps, the starter needs to sit and mend.
TarynsEyes
June 02, 2025 at 10:36 am
That's the rub, they say they're healthy enough to play, and when the loss comes, they say they weren't 100%.
WestCoastPackerBacker
June 02, 2025 at 03:21 pm
Well it’s very likely the truth. But they never talked about it as an excuse. Yet it is reality. Love doesn’t have a ton of starting experience yet and he’s going to experience some ups and downs. Leg injuries affect QB accuracy. These are humans, not robots. Even the best QBs have down years. They’re not machines.
Oppy
June 02, 2025 at 06:52 pm
Let Taryn decide what is a "truth", a "reason", or an "excuse."
It's kinda like her domain.
Spoiler Alert, She'll say it's an excuse.
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 12:12 pm
It sure looked to me like they should've started Willis for at least one more game. This doesn't seem to be the way things are done in the NFL though. I remember watching Brett Favre play some of his worst football in 1999 and 2000 when he was injured. We also saw Aaron Rodgers struggle while playing hurt in 2022. I think there is a strong precedent in the NFL that if the QB can play, you put him out there, even if he is somewhat compromised. I think there is a fear that if you don't do that, his teammates are not going to respect him. The optics are not good when a QB is standing on the sidelines looking perfectly healthy while his teammates are out there busting their butts, trying to win without him.
nagawicka
June 02, 2025 at 07:31 pm
Green Bay is anything but 'very conservative' when Favre or Rodgers were injured, Favre even had Brunell in the wings but instead he played with a broken thumb and cost us games. So in terms of QBs it's the opposite: we play 'em hurt, and feeding into the superhero carry-the-team mythos cost us their even-keeled play --effective winning play -- going forward.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 10:20 am
It has seemed to me LaFleur consistently has one of the longest injury reports in the NFL on a week to week basis.
Many starters do not practice. To be accomplished at a skill, it MUST be practiced. Are players truly "injured" or are they being held out due an extremely cautious team mindset to practices? If you cannot go in the last practice before the game, it seems a stretch you can play full speed in the game.
Sporadic practice time probably has as much impact on drops as anything. Coaching has a role too. Employees respect what you inspect and expect and demand accountability. It would be one thing if it was just Wicks who was dropping passes. Most of the WR room had the affliction.
It is also a stretch to blame the QB for drops. Isn't a drop recorded after you fail to complete a pass dropped in your mitts?
vin0770
June 02, 2025 at 10:23 am
Gute draft two WR’s because it was a physical necessity as much as contract necessity. Watson may be ready to play by week eight but will he be instant healthy Watson or how long does that take to show up?
The elephant in the room that the FO can’t publicly talk honestly about is the susceptibility of Romeo easily getting concussion number three! He picked up his second in the last game jumping for a ball in the end zone landing kind of on his back and the helmet hit the turf. It didn’t look catastrophic but he was out! All while wearing his halo!
So what more can be done to protect him? Does he just get better by having time away? Isn’t he way more likely to get another because he’s had two? Man I don’t see him making it 17 games without another concussion. If he gets number three then what? What does Romeo have to contemplate after number three? What does GB medical tell Romeo after getting number three?
It’s can be a brutal collision sport and man, it’s your BRAIN!
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 11:10 am
"What does Romeo have to contemplate after number three?"
What WILL he be able to contemplate after #3?
Poor lad.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 12:35 pm
The second concussion could have been a residual of the first. Just because you clear the "protocol" does not mean your brain injury has healed.
I view it similar to a fractured bone. It is susceptible to less force for an even greater break if not totally healed.
T7Steve
June 02, 2025 at 12:45 pm
Except that when a bone finally heals completely, it's not as susceptible to break there again because it heals stronger. Wouldn't that be great if the brain was that way?
When we were playing it was just getting your bell rung and hurry back out there to play if you couldn't hide it and keep playing without a break.
Didn't affect me in any permanent way. At least not that I can remember.
What were we talking about again?
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:47 pm
We were discussing...um, talking about...oh, what was that thing? I can't recall.
NFLfan
June 02, 2025 at 10:28 am
Green Bay is very medically conservative which is why I take their side in the ongoing Alexander skirmish.
For whatever reason, though, they did, IMO, return Love to the field quite prematurely. Groin injuries take 1-2 months to heal as do MCL strains. He played with a knee brace for a number of games as well.
Maybe he underplayed his symptoms but that does not 'hurry up' the healing process.
splitpea1
June 02, 2025 at 11:18 am
One thing that was overlooked in the article is that the Packers ran the ball nearly 20% more than they did the previous season, so that is part of the reason why there was a lack of meaningful progression, at least numbers-wise. I don't know how much this changes going forward, but I suspect this will still be a very run-heavy offense.
So all of the receivers, veterans and rookies, will have to make the most of their opportunities. Get open and catch the ball, and we can put this discussion in the rear view mirror.
HawkPacker
June 02, 2025 at 11:25 am
I would agree that they will continue to run SP1 based on the two additional ginormous OL they added this year.
LambeauPlain
June 02, 2025 at 01:01 pm
What is the deepest room on the Packers? I would say RB (JJ, Wilson, Lloyd, Brooks), although Safety should be on par, especially if Oladapo steps up as I predict. And I hope the OL competes for that designation this season. Then running the ball as much or more this season should be no brainer.
The Eagles, like the Packers, ran their offense through the run game. It opened up the pass game, and the Eagles were more adept exploiting this than the Packers were...too many self inflicted mistakes on passing opportunities....drops, penalties, incompletions.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 02:21 pm
The best thing that could happen to the Packers receiving room would be for Wicks to grab the WR1 spot and not let it go but I would put the odds of that happening at less than 50%. I think they are going to see a lot more man coverage this year until they prove they can consistently beat it.
Major Snafu
June 02, 2025 at 02:40 pm
Which of out receivers are tall and fast with good hands? Seems our guys run on the shorter side and lack size and speed to handle the toughness. My take is they are either guys with so so hands to begin with or they hear footsteps that cause their focus to shift.
Fact, our receivers were near the top in drops and they are the same ones coming back so how has our passing game improved?
The guy we drafted is short, with speed but we have some of that now.
The bottom line is when we draft these guys they are the left overs the truely top guys, only a few in the draft go right away they arent their at the end of round one.
Watson is a waste of time and should be cut or traded but no one would want him he gets hurt tripping on chalk lines, runs poor routes, doesnt have the speed they thought he did and just doesnt produce enough for his salary.
WestCoastPackerBacker
June 02, 2025 at 03:38 pm
Watson has had tremendous value as a 2nd round pick for GB. Despite injuries, he’s scored more TDs (16 - 14 receiving/2 rushing) than any WR drafted that year. The next in line is Drake London who was the 8th pick in the draft. He has scored 15, same as GBs 4th rounder Romeo Doubs. Ridiculous to say Watson is a waste of time.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 05:40 pm
Don't mind him, he's just a bored Vikings fan, apparently with no life outside of bothering those on this site and ACME.
WD
June 02, 2025 at 02:59 pm
Frankly, I do not see a lot of upside for any of them with the exception of Watson and Reed. Yet even Watson may be chronically injury prone as with Doubs. As for Wicks I see no upside at all. He dropped balls chronically in college and now in the pros. Why would anyone assume he will suddenly learn to how to catch next season? Moreover, he doesn't have great speed. In fairness he runs good routes but.....
Hopefully my take is too pessimistic. That said, I am looking forward to seeing the two new drafted receivers on the field early. Why wait? Reed and the two new rookies along with a healthy Watson will be the starters. The Packer brass knows it too. That is why they drafted two WR's early. Good move!
GregC
June 02, 2025 at 03:11 pm
Wicks caught the ball just fine during his rookie season. That gives us some hope that he could put these drop issues behind him. It's a common problem for young players. It could be a result of thinking too much. I wouldn't want to rely on Wicks at this point, but I haven't given up on him either.
PhantomII
June 02, 2025 at 09:19 pm
JL held out for his bag of money = less reps with his WR's , because Gute dragged his feet on playing him sooner. JL started the Eagles game pretty raw looking...got hurt...LOST. WILLIS started...did good enough to help out. ML RUSHED JL back AT LEAST 2-4 weeks TOO EARLY= HURT AGAIN. Once the offense was winning with Willis mostly run game style ML never really got out of that mode for JL and the rest of the season was a hodge podge run game and air ball combo completely neglecting intermediate area as well as our best receiver/TE KRAFT and RB1 Jacobs in the pass and screen game. ML needed to press on both more in the pass game and he got lost in the run game...again. NOW our OL is bigger and should NEED less TE blocking so we should be able to open up the Offense more if ML can game plan it properly. Adding a turnkey WR in round 1 helps a lot. Really looking forward to not typing why our team regressed so much in a short amount of time, when it should have been something to build from.....But GB Packers ALWAYS start slow...ML that's on you.
LLCHESTY
June 02, 2025 at 10:18 pm
Good thread that shows just how costly 3rd down errors by the WRs were last year.
https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1929567428112974334?t=uZ57ncY8XlqZa9w...