The Lass Word: How Much Grace Has LaFleur Earned?

Packers coach is secure for now, but his seat is warming up.

As the Green Bay Packers’ season continues to spiral downward, the drumbeat from some of the most disgruntled fans to fire Matt LaFleur is getting louder.  A 3-6 record, five losses in a row, including an embarrassment to the worst team in the league, has many folks pleading with upper management to jettison their fourth year head coach. 

Is there actually a realistic chance of that happening?  Or has leading the Packers to three consecutive seasons of thirteen wins earned LaFleur a fair amount of grace and benefit of the doubt?  And for how long?   

No matter what happens in Green Bay’s final eight games, it is highly unlikely the team would part ways with its head coach.  Looking at recent history, it generally takes more than one disappointing season to motivate the front office to make a change, especially when there has been a previous record of success.    Mike McCarthy led the Packers to eight consecutive winning seasons, including a Super Bowl championship, before his team plummeted to 7-9 in 2017.   He was given grace based on his previous track record, and, despite many calls for his ouster, was allowed to return for 2018.  It was not until Green Bay staggered to a 4-7-1 start that McCarthy was fired. 

The two year grace period doesn’t always hold true.  Sometimes it depends on how severe the crash has become.  Mike Sherman led the Pack to five winning seasons in a row, but when the team cratered to a 4-12 mark in 2005, he was sent packing.  So the rest of this season could be critically important to LaFleur’s future.  It’s one thing to finish, say, 7-10, or 8-9.  You could blame injuries, the quarterback, lack of receivers, whatever.  But if the Packers were to fall to something like 4-13, and look futile doing it, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that management would view LaFleur’s situation as irreparable. 

Far-fetched?  Maybe not as far as you may think.  One look at the remaining schedule doesn’t seem to indicate many teams Green Bay can beat, at least not with the way they are playing now.  Still to be played are games against the Cowboys, Titans, Dolphins, Eagles and Vikings.  Again, based on their current level of play, that would likely be five losses.  The other three opponents are the Rams, Bears and Lions.  The Rams are struggling, but they are still the defending Super Bowl champs, the Bears look much improved now that they have figured out how to use Justin Fields, and the Lions have already shown they can beat the Packers.  If LaFleur can’t find some answers to get this team playing better, a four or five win season is definitely a possibility.  Would that be a drop severe enough to motivate Mark Murphy to pull the plug on his head coach? 

Even if LaFleur does get another year to right the ship, the team’s dismal prospects for improvement next year are working against him.  The Packers are in the worst case scenario:  They are a bad team burdened with a bunch of high cap hit players.  This is different from other bad teams, such as the Lions and the Texans.  Let’s arbitrarily use a 2023 cap hit of $20 million as a threshold to define a highly paid player.  According to overthecap.com, the Lions have just one player over that mark in 2023.  That would be Jared Goff at $30.6 million.  The Texans have just two, Tackle Laremy Tunsil at $35.2 million, and receiver Brandin Cooks at $26.6 million.  Those teams are going to have some salary cap flexibility to improve themselves next year. 

By comparison, the Packers have five players at or above that threshold in 2023.  Aaron Rodgers ($31.6 million), David Bakhtiari ($29 million), Kenny Clark ($23.9 million), Jaire Alexander ($20 million) and Aaron Jones ($20 million).  There’s nothing wrong with paying big money to keep your best players, but paying big money to several guys, and then having your team fall apart, is your worst nightmare, because you can’t get out from under it to rebuild. 

Many fans believe General Manager Brian Gutekunst should also be on the firing line.  The guess here is that his seat is not quite as hot.  The front office might well be thinking Gutekunst has done a pretty good job of supplying talent and resources to this team, but the coaching staff, for whatever reason, hasn’t been able to pull it together.  

So, you may think the season is over, that there is nothing left to play for, but don’t tell that to Matt LaFleur.  Every loss makes that drumbeat a little louder.  I am not advocating for MLF to be fired. But I do wonder how much grace the success of his first three seasons has earned him, and how long it will last. 

 

-- Without Rashan Gary, Eric Stokes, Romeo Doubs, and possibly De’Vondre Campbell, Green Bay’s chances of giving the Cowboys a decent game this Sunday look dim.  The only path is to keep Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb, Tony Pollard and the Dallas offense on the sideline.  Try to run the ball, throw short possession passes on schedule, sustain long drives and get out front.  A few turnovers and maybe a big special teams play would help.  Maybe the home crowd will inspire a better effort.  Or will we see another opposing player donning a cheesehead after the game to mock us? 

Game Prediction:  Cowboys 31  Packers 10 

Star of the game:  Kingsley Enagbare 

Upset Special of the Week:  Vikings over Bills 

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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

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6 points

Comments (76)

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PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:06 pm

I think this season rings much larger than the other 3 because in the last 3 seasons, Rodgers + Adams could do all of the dirty work + MLF could have been riding on their coattails. Now, when MLF is being asked to do more in terms of the scheme, he can't keep up. Also, he never runs the ball. Whether he's calling the plays or of Rodgers is audibling out of them, it is MLF's responsibility. I honestly have the Packers finishing 4-13, with a win in week 18 over the Lions at Lambeau (I assume Jordan Love will be starting then). I think that would be enough to get him fired

We are seeing the true colors of MLF and just how good he is right now, and I don't think anyone is pleased. He deserves to go after this year.

Prediction: Cowboys 27 Packers 0. If we can only score 9 points against the Lions, I can't see us scoring against one of the best defenses (top 3) in the league.

4 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:36 pm

Thats all false. Go back and watch some of the 2020 season. You'll see tons of running the ball (9th ranked rush offense), tons of playaction, tons of screen passes, etc. All the hallmarks of Lafleur's offensive philosophy. Rodgers and Adams benefitted from Lafleur's coaching as much or more than he benefitted from them. But then Rodgers held out the next year. The result was that offense that worked so wonderfully went by the wayside. Gone was the commitment to the run. Gone was the playaction and screen passes and motions and tap passes that made this offense great the year before. Rodgers' holdout was all about control over the offense and he got it. Sure he still had a statistically good year last year but the offense as a whole took a major step back. Long story short, this aint on Lafleur. Rodgers got what he wanted and is now steering this team off a cliff. As for Adams, it just goes to show that Rodgers needs Adams to run his own stale spread offense, not Lafleur's. Also worth noting, Adams had his 3 best seasons AFTER Lafleur got here, not before.

2 points
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4thand10's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:03 pm

RTS is 100% correct…I’ll take LaFluer over the tea drinking guy at this point.

3 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:09 pm

All i want is 1 season where Lafleur can run this team as he sees fit. Thats what every head coach deserves regardless of the qb.

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13TimeChamps's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:15 pm

So what's stopping him? He's the HC isn't he? Can you imagine Holmgren letting Favre (also a HOF multiple MVP QB) dictate to him how the offense should be run? Yeah, me either.

9 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:34 pm

His boss, Mark Murphy, created this shit sandwich by making it the organization's mission to give Rodgers whatever he wants. As for Favre, the organization never kneeled to him. They walked the fine line between keeping him happy without giving him control. Murphy went way over that line cuz his mandatory retirement age is coming up and he believed Rodgers gave him a better chance at a super bowl than Love does. Thats where this begins and ends, with Mark Murphy and his own selfish bs. They had a golden opportunity to get the cap right, add a bunch of high picks and a couple good young players, and boost this team into the next era. Instead he gave us this dumpster fire.

5 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:47 pm

Then MLF should stand up to the FO. He obviously won't/can't stand up to Rodgers.

Give me ONE example of a HC, particularly an offense minded one, that takes orders from his QB. He was hired to install his system. Are you suggesting Murphy has instructed him to abandon that and do Rodgers bidding? I have a hard time believing that. Why hire him in the first place?

I'm not defending Rodgers at all. I wish they would have traded him. That doesn't excuse MLF's lack of backbone in this scenario.

5 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:53 pm

How do you know he hasnt? Just because Lafleur doesnt behave like Rodgers and hold a press conference just to trash everyone for 30 minutes straight?

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Since'61's picture

November 10, 2022 at 11:04 pm

MLF advocated for re-signing Rodgers during the off season so I doubt that he has stood up to the FO. Also, since Murphy hired him after one interview MLF is not going to one on one with Murphy.

MLF's problem is that he is a non-confrontational person. That is almost always an issue for someone who is ultimately responsible to produce results. it doesn't mean that they can't succeed but it does mean that they don't have the conviction to stand up for themselves or their convictions when they are pushed hard and Rodgers pushes back hard. Rodgers figured out that MLF needs him more than he needs MLF. That was before Murphy gave him $50 million per year. Once that happened Murphy validated Rodgers and put MLF in a very difficult situation. He can't challenge Murphy's decision and his best, probably only chance to win games and keep his job is to play Rodgers. It's a no win situation for MLF at this point because he is responsible for the team's record.

Murphy is in until he retires. Gute is probably Murphy's successor and the Board is only worried about the Packers revenue and brand image. They're non-profit so they don't answer to shareholders and the stadium is sold out forever. All is well in Green Bay except the team with a dysfunctional coaching staff and players who lack confidence and look totally confused every week. But the game is the sideshow because the money keeps rolling in. Thanks, Since '61

5 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

November 10, 2022 at 08:05 pm

His Boss should be gone for sure...

5 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:18 pm

I am not saying that Rodgers is justified. I think it would be best if he parted ways with the Packers. I am saying that MLF should have the guts to stand up to Rodgers or he shouldn't be a head coach.

4 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 06:11 pm

I get it and it does make sense but what Im saying is that hes most likely been instructed not to. Either that, or Murphy gave Rodgers equal standing with Lafleur in the pecking order. Basically made Rodgers management.

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Since'61's picture

November 10, 2022 at 11:07 pm

He validated Rodgers standing when he paid him $50 million per season. He basically made Rodgers a partner with the team. Very difficult situation for MLF. Thanks, Since '61

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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 11:28 pm

As you observe, the man is going to struggle to lead. It’s pretty clear now that he has struggled to lead his coaches or players and, if you are correct, he’s sold out and the players will inevitably know that. I’m sorry, he’s done as a credible head coach here if he allowed that to happen. There’s no way back from that.

5 points
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Since'61's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:37 am

Coldworld - I think that from the beginning MLF treated Rodgers like a peer rather than as a player. And he probably did that to get buy in from Rodgers and even the other players because the other players saw Rodgers as their leader on the field at that time.

I would say that what MLF needed to do initially was to establish clear ground rules on how he and Rodgers were going to work together to build the Packers offense. And yes that can include allowing input from Rodgers and even including some of his concepts but ultimately it needs to be clear that the HC has the final say on everything and Rodgers may be a great player but if he's not willing to execute MLF's offense then he can't play here.

Excellent leadership requires integrity first, which I believe MLF has, then it requires commitment, communication, and consistency. Commitment to your vision and why/how it works, constant clear communications and consistency in how everyone (on the team, in this case) is treated. Those are basics but IMO a person cannot lead without those characteristics. The leader cannot be talked out of or manipulated out of what their vision is. That does not mean they should be inflexible either.

In any case it looks like MLF is an Xs and Os guy much more than a guy who can deal with confrontation. As a leader there are times you need to assert yourself and your authority regardless of how unpleasant or difficult it might be. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:56 am

Hey '61 -

"In any case it looks like MLF is an Xs and Os guy much more than a guy who can deal with confrontation."

MaLF may be an Xs and Os guy, but if he is, he's the least innovative Xs and Os guy in the league.

He's also a weak if not incompetent play caller. He sets nothing up. It seems he picks plays off his play sheet at random and is as discombobulated as possible. Nothing connects. It's like he challenges his players to execute each play in a vacuum and does nothing to challenge the defense.

His scripted plays on opening drives this year is as bad as I've ever seen.

0 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:03 am

"In any case it looks like MLF is an Xs and Os guy much more than a guy who can deal with confrontation."

That sounds more like a Coordinator than a HC. A head coach HAS to be able to deal with confrontation. It's as much of his job responsibility as anything else. Rodgers was already so established here when MLF arrived, and they're not far apart age-wise. Plus it's his first HC opportunity. Probably not the easiest situation to walk into, especially when that established player is Aaron Rodgers. I'm sure he saw what transpired with his predecessor when his and Rodgers relationship deteriorated.

In hindsight, the team probably should have hired more of a no-nonsense type along the lines of a Holmgren or Parcells, who wouldn't put up with Rodgers' pass aggressive nonsense. But, here we are.

3 points
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Since'61's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:12 am

Agree 13Times. I never liked the approach that Murphy offered the HC position to MLF after one interview. That's just a poor practice in hiring for such a critical position in your organization. This season is exposing the numerous flaws in MLF's selection process for his assistants and his leadership qualities. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 11, 2022 at 04:12 pm

How many superiors have given you the glad hand, three sentences into the job Interview?

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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:34 am

‘61, there is nothing I disagree with in your analysis. There is however, one critical derivation not made. That is that LaFleur’s choices have caused him to become a functionary not a leader and that’s not something that can be undone. At some point integrity has to be shown and resolve demonstrated. If it isn’t, that integrity ceases to have meaning. If you are right, your analysis condemns him in practice.

1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:17 pm

What happened to that this year then?

1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:23 pm

Whose fault is it that Rodgers is setting the team back? MLF needs to have the guts to stand up to Rodgers or he shouldn't be a head coach. I think that for the team we were in 2019, a team with an aging QB that needed a schematic facelift, the hire worked out well. I don't think, though, that MLF is the right guy to lead a short-handed, rebuilding team. It's great that the offense worked out in 2020. If you don't have the guts to stand up to your own QB, though, you don't deserve to be a head coach. MLF is the one calling the plays - it's his responsibility to execute the offense how he wants. Whether he is not calling good plays or if Rodgers is opting out of them, it is still his fault.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:34 pm

LaFleur should be gone now. Can anyone honestly point to one achievement that can be said to be his doing alone?

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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:44 pm

Yes. Go back and look at the 2020 offense. Its the only year Rodgers fully bought into Lafleur's offense and it was a sight to behold. A consistent running game, playaction, motions, jet sweeps, tap passes, screen passes, you name it. That was all Lafleur's philosophy. Then Rodgers held out the next year and all that went bye bye. He demanded control over the offense and he got it. This tailspin didnt begin this year. It began last year. Yeah Rodgers won the MVP last year (which he didnt deserve) but the offense as a whole took a big step back as a direct result of the abandonment of all the things that made this offense great the year prior. Then once Adams was gone, the squeaky wheel fell off completely. Weve seen what Lafleur's offense can do. It functions like an absolute machine when executed properly. On the flip side, weve seen enough of Rodgers' preferred pass happy spread nonsense to know its a steaming pile of crap. And i can guarantee you Lafleur didnt just up and scrap his own offensive philosophily on the heels of a historically great season. No, only Rodgers would be selfish and arrogant enough to demand that. Lafleur at least deserves 1 season post-Rodgers to prove himself with Love.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:50 pm

No. A guy with that little pride and backbone is not who we need, even if it’s true. If it is, LaFleurs calls for more Rodgers look even more craven and that’s omitting his coaching inadequacies tactically and in terms of man management. He’s not a leader or a man who backs himself when It matters. He needs to be history.

7 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:59 pm

He answers to Murphy. Unless your name is Aaron Rodgers, when your boss tells you to do something you do it. What is he honestly supposed to do? Is he supposed to unilaterally bench Rodgers? His hands are tied. If it was up to him, I guarantee you Love wouldve been playing a long time ago. I remember at the end of the season presser after their playoff loss, Lafleur said this: "You will see a better version of us next year." I think this quote 100% meant he assumed Rodgers would be gone and he could finally run this team as he sees fit. But that didnt happen. All so Murphy could pretend to chase another ring on his way out the door. Think about it. Lafleur wants to run the ball and manufacture a pass game. Gutekunst gets him the players to do just that, including drafting a qb that Lafleur approved of. But they all bend over for Rodgers after 3 straight playoff disappointments? No way. Murphy gave them both their marching orders and once Rodgers agreed to come back only then did Murphy give them both extensions. Murphy literally leveraged their jobs to get them to beg Rodgers to come back including giving him reign over the offense.

-2 points
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jurp's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:19 pm

"What's he supposed to do?" If he had any balls or spine, quit; I suspect there would be a couple of teams that would snap him up as an OC. It must be tough having to genuflect every time Rodgers passes him in the hall.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:23 pm

To my mind that characteristic probably explains his inability to manage personnel and players and invalidates him as a Head Coach.

7 points
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jurp's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:24 pm

I agree, if you haven't figured that out from my previous MLF posts.

2 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:35 pm

And he would never get another job of any kind in the NFL ever again.

-3 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 06:59 pm

The reality is, despite my firm belief that LaFleur isn’t a personality whom I find appropriate to be the head coach of anything, Murphy is the only one that can fire him. I think the chances of that happening are zero until Murphy feels he has to throw him under the bus to save his skin, as he did McCarthy. (This time let’s hope we are collectively smart enough not to let that work).

As a result, though LaFleurshould be gone already for his incredibly inept tactics, inability to adjust, innovate on the fly, prepare teams, motivate, to hire and manage coaches and grinding timerity, he’s be likely here through the season. As such, you are going to get plenty of games to evaluate his ability to coach with no Rodgers.

Let me ask you though. Supposing Love and this free LaFleur do look better? Do you really honestly think he’s a Head Coach that can overcome adversity and manage coaches and player personnel? That’s where we may differ, because my answer is that it won’t speak to that at all. It would be an advert for him as an OC, potentially, but that’s it.

1 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 07:56 pm

I think Lafleur has been thrust into a highly unique position where he has been tasked with trying to coach a borderline uncoachable player who wields as much or more power than he does. And considering how many games he has won, I think he at least deserves a season to prove himself without being under Rodgers' shadow. I dont think thats too much to ask for. Gute and Lafleur drafted Love. That was their plan for better or worse. I think they should be given a chance to see it through or all of this drama was for nothing. If Love bombs, then yeah they both need to go. That will be the true indicator imo. If Love plays well and the team responds positively, how do you get rid of Lafleur at that point? How do you not go with it and see where it leads? Im sure I come off as a Lafleur fanboy but Im really not. Maybe youre right. Maybe he is just a spineless chump getting bullied. But i need to see him without Rodgers before i give up on him. I believe he has earned that opportunity.

Edit: Mike Mccarthy was a strong personality and leader of men. He ended up getting railroaded by Rodgers all the same. Maybe just maybe Rodgers is that big of a cancer like ive been saying for years?

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 11:41 pm

If you aren’t seen as having the courage of your convictions it’s very hard to lead. You are describing a man who, under your scenario took the money at the cost of his credibility. Walk away now. I’d not touch that no matter how well he can perform with no pressure in a dead season. Not a man for a conflict or crisis. No thank you.

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:06 am

You guys have had me following your whole conversation. Very interesting. CW all your points are right on. RTSs are all very good points too.

The main thing is that we may as well keep MLF for the next couple seasons. As others, and I believe you two also have noted, what GOOD TOP coaching prosect will take on this S-Cap hell. Can't even start a true rebuild for two years.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 11:19 am

If the problems with basic coaching and coaching choices weren’t evident maybe I could see that. However, I think LaFleur is entirely the wrong guy to develop the youth we will have. The Warner video is really telling.

1 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:06 pm

I gave thumbs up for both sides in this discussion. I mention it after 2nd game, that this will not be successful season. Because MLF does not have balls to say: "My way or I'll hit the road!"

Same, to some level goes to Brian Gutekunst. But, what he was doing is that he trully drafted for future.

Both, MLF and BG have a problem. They are so keen to keep their jobs that they accepts medling with their authorities. If they lose jobs, it will not be easy for MLF to become HC again, and same is for BG. Only person who can run his/her job is the one who is sure that he/she knows how to do it and do not allow others to do the mess in their department. For that you should have selfrespect and selfconfidence (please, do not confuse it with arrogance).

Also, by resigning from the job, they'll got respect from public and the teams they are leading.

On the other side, they might signed something in their contracts that preventing them to trully run independently thair respective jobs. Like some articles that take them some authorities we might think they have.

At the end, I'm on the Coldworld side, as you'll never be leader if you accepts compromises in important parts of your jobs.

-1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:25 pm

Do we really want a puppet as our HC, though? He is hired to coach the team and make football decisions, not to let the owner do that.

3 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 08:19 pm

Would you rather have someone threatening to quit on his team?

-1 points
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fangirl's picture

November 10, 2022 at 06:31 pm

Because I continue to see a Puppetmaster @ the top, I do not think GB will attract a coach who is his own person.
You can fire MlF but Murphy will make certain the new HC is properly subordinant and 'Matt LaFleuresque'

Can any of you really envision a strong coach such as Daboll or Vrabel working in that environment?
These guys talk and I'm sure the word is out that something is deeply wrong in GB.

6 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 07:07 pm

No GM will come that we want with no control over coaches or contracts. Whether a coach would is more interesting. My guess it will deter but that he’d still have the real GM as his boss, so maybe it’s a wash.

1 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

November 11, 2022 at 04:33 pm

MLF inherited a top team. that rodgers had undermined/quit on mccarthy does nothing to diminish the quality of the team he inherited. MLF is a front runner, unable to cope with adversity. he sacrificed his testicles at the alter of Rodgers, and he will never recover. does anyone think he has the respect of his players? Rodgers openly mocks him and his facials and eyebrow waxing. when he had the opportunity to bring in a defensive coordinator he saddled us with a retread loser, who would be subservient to MLF. Weakness. Everything about MLF screams weakness. his supposed best friend in football Robert Saleh said his team was weak and would wilt if you smashed them in the face.

he is correct.

rodgers needs to sit after the cowboys smash this team to bits, and we need to see what we have in Love. The Bears are sadly showing us the way. We will be bad for a decade if Love isn't the one.

#FireMarkMurphy

1 points
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splitpea1's picture

November 10, 2022 at 03:48 pm

If the downward spiral doesn't end or the effort level on the field isn't what it should be, then the plug should be pulled at the end of this disastrous campaign. Sounds good in theory, but....

Is the front office willing to hire a take-charge head coach who can properly manage Rodgers (somebody, anybody please) and make the necessary changes to the staff--like someone who can get this defense to play to its talent level? Very questionable.

Suppose Love starts and wins a couple of games? Is that worthy of a reprieve?

Gute: Shouldn't be on the hot seat yet, but a mixed bag as far as upper round draft selections. He should probably restrain himself from trading up, because most the time it hasn't been remotely worth it. But he has found some very useful players as UDFAs and practice squad pickups.

So I don't know. There's too many variables floating around, including the inclinations of Rodgers once the season is over.

1 points
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jurp's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:28 pm

Given the state of the Front Office (in terms of its organization), would any experienced coach want to come on board, knowing that he'd have to kow-tow to a certain sure-looks-to-be-aging-fast quarterback with a desire to run a stale offense?

1 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:37 pm

Jurp this is exactly what i keep saying. Neither Sean Payton nor any other coach worth a nickel is going to come here and be dictated to. How many good coaches must we fire before we realize the true problem?

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:12 pm

The answer is that’s how it changes and it does need change. Make Murphy explain to the Board why they won’t come if that’s true. Going out of one’s way to perpetuate or avoid a wrong is complicit and, ultimately, self defeating.

2 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:32 pm

Why should Gute not be on the hot seat? He has whiffed on more picks than Josh Rosen has thrown. Sternberger over Terry McLaurin in 2019, Jordan Love over Tee Higgins (at the time), Christian Watson over George Pickens, Quay Walker over Devin Lloyd, Josh Myers over Creed Humphrey, Sean Rhyan over Kerby Joseph...the list goes on and on.

0 points
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Packers1985's picture

November 10, 2022 at 07:46 pm

Definitely he should be on the hot seat too for messing up multiple top rd picks. But i think he did a good job in FA and UDFA's that's about it coming to Drafting he has whiffed more that he hit the last 3 seasons.

1 points
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fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:16 am

A strong HC will want autonomy-Mark Murphy and his inappropriate interference
will keep strong coach away-they talk

1 points
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stockholder's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:00 pm

Grace - A lot. It's a whole new world for LeFluer. He tried to replace, too much too fast. And he's caught crap from every side.
The injuries and departures never help any Team. But until he makes the right calls in the red Zone. There will be No mercy.

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jurp's picture

November 10, 2022 at 04:22 pm

After three and a half years, there's no way he's in a "whole new world". He has always shown a lack of skill in making in-game adjustments, and he cannot replace assistant coaches when he needs to. I'm with Coldworld - he needs to be gone,

6 points
8
2
HarryHodag's picture

November 10, 2022 at 05:52 pm

Oh come on, Ken. Talk about faint-hearted fans! The guy wins more games than Lombardi, is tasked with keeping an out-of-control ego maniac from destroying the team plus other negatives and now....lets start sowing discontent!
Every coach has a rough season. Did Robert Kraft seek to fire Bill Belichick when his season got off to a rough start?
Firing the coach means there's someone better out there. Have any candidates?

How about another season to see if he can turn it around?

There are things for which you can criticize MLF, but to start the war drums pounding for his dismissal--faintly-- is just plain stupid.

-3 points
3
6
PackyCheese500's picture

November 10, 2022 at 06:29 pm

I think Ejiro Evero, the Broncos DC, would be a good HC for the Packers. I get what you're saying though. Also of course MLF wins more games than Lombardi, the seasons were shorter back then.

2 points
4
2
Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 07:47 pm

If Lafleur were to be fired, going with a defensive oriented coach, or even a special teams coach would be my choice too. Rich Bisaccia anyone?

1 points
2
1
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:18 am

Who is the out-of-control egomaniac--Murphy or Rodgers?

2 points
3
1
croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 03:29 am

Both! That's why they understand each other well! And pulling the franchise in the downward spiral...

4 points
4
0
HarryHodag's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:16 am

The one who dated, and dumped, Olivia Munn, Danica Patrick and Shailene Woodley.

2 points
2
0
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 02:18 pm

Y'all believe that?-LOL

-1 points
0
1
beerandbrats's picture

November 10, 2022 at 06:16 pm

Great coaches, just like star athletes, make a difference! That's why our field is named after Curly Lambeau and the Superbowl trophy is named after Vince Lombardi. Mike Holmgren was an offensive genius and he had an all-star supporting cast with Steve Mariucci, John Gruden and Andy Reid. Sizing up ring fingers the night before the last Superbowl was pure genius by Mike McCarthy!

MLF has resurrected AR12's career but does that mean he's a great head coach? The Packers are facing a lot of adversity right now. True leaders stand out during adverse times.

The OL line has been playing musical chairs all season and there's no consistency in our receivers because we can't keep them on the field. I don't want to blame the injury bug but that's a lot to overcome! No wonder our offense stinks! What do you suppose our record would be if we had our preferred OL and receivers on the field for every game this year? My preseason prediction had us at 7-2 with losses at Tampa and Buffalo.

Losing to the Lions is embarrassing. 3-6 is embarrassing. I still believe that we have a very competitive team when playing our preferred starters, so the jury is still out on MLF. He needs to show that he can overcome adversity and keep this team playing to win. If he can do that, I would say MLF has more than earned his pay.

3 points
3
0
TarynsEyes's picture

November 10, 2022 at 06:27 pm

Never losing two in a row sure seems like a long time ago. Now it seems like we are left to wonder when winning two in a row will happen.

8 points
8
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

November 10, 2022 at 08:02 pm

Two wins a row? I'll settle for a successful goalline conversion at this point lol

3 points
3
0
BirdDogUni's picture

November 10, 2022 at 08:12 pm

2023 hopefully.

1 points
1
0
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:20 am

What about 2023 will change?

-1 points
0
1
BirdDogUni's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:22 am

The Schedule for one. There are many players currently on the roster that won't be here in '23, so there will be a great deal of change, no matter what happens. If nobody gets fired, this will still be a much different team than this year.

What changed between '21 and '22?

We lost DA and ZS. (A leader in the WR Room and a leader on the defense.)

It shows. The reason Rodgers threw so many balls to DA was because he could count on him being where he was supposed to be every play.

So many things wrong with this year, but next year will be a totally different team.

Our biggest problems are probably "Play Design" and "Play Calling." Those two problems aren't going anywhere as long as Matt LaFleur is HC.

He doesn't set the defense up at all. He calls plays in a vacuum, where without perfect execution it is doomed to failure. No innovation. No vision.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

November 10, 2022 at 11:45 pm

The next hurdle is coming away saying that the team
played better than expected. Baby steps.

2 points
2
0
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 12:28 am

85% of the plays went through the best WR in the league--he was nowhere near replaced--house of cards started to fall.
QB's need good receivers. KC lost Tyreek Hill but replaced w/ 2-3 legit receivers. Allen has Diggs and others. Both have superb defense, smart coaching. GB has none of that. Fans need to look @ reality.
Rodgers has Lazard who is a #2-3. This fall-of is no surprise to me.
No QB could sustain this lack of weapons and weak coaching on all 3 parts--defense, offense and teams.

2 points
5
3
croatpackfan's picture

November 11, 2022 at 03:32 am

Or, maybe no QB could sustain the work of Father Time (and past substantial injuries)?

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:46 am

No QB could take this roster and this coaching and win a Super Bowl. That was always a complete fantasy. It’s fair to say that another personality may have got more from it, but not materially. There is no getting around the fact that the decision. To bring him back with this roster and cap was simply preposterous.

LaFleur’s coaching deficiencies and incredibly timorous game plans and personnel usage and coaching choices just added oil to the fire, but this season was doomed when Murphy decided that Rodgers and not much at all was a winning strategy.

5 points
5
0
fangirl's picture

November 11, 2022 at 01:17 pm

I know it's fashionable to hate Rodgers and I agree that he was a huge distraction in his off-seasons and has descended into self-mythology. I railed against the 'will he won't he return'
the 'cleanse', the pushing of Ayahuasca, the spiritual 'guru' schtick and so on.

I don't know if I'm correct, but I actually think he was blindsided by Davante's decision to leave. (Davante had good reason-I fault both GB and Aaron)

Why on God's earth did he decide to remain, knowing how dependent he was on D?
Did he really believe he could 'throw anyone open?"
I don't think it was only the $$$

0 points
0
0
TPCheese's picture

November 12, 2022 at 01:31 pm

Lazard wasn't able to secure the #2 spot the past few seasons. Now, all of a sudden he's magically good enough to be a #1 because of some kind words from his teammates? This team has been looking for a #2 for years. Now they're looking for a #1 and a #2. They have a surplus of #3-4's. All role players, nothing more.

I would think Gute's seat is just as hot a Lafleurs. The WR position has been completely ignored for the past five years aside from that hat trick of warm bodies in 2018, and Amari "6 fumbles in a year and a half" Rodgers. Why would you sign a QB to $50 million a year with this patchwork WR group?

1 points
1
0
TPCheese's picture

November 13, 2022 at 05:51 pm

Scratch that, it's now Amari "7 fumbles in a year and a half" Rodgers" and he came really close to making it 8 today. I don't know how this guy is still on the team. If the coaching staff dares to put him back there ever again they all deserve to be fired.

1 points
1
0
barutanseijin's picture

November 11, 2022 at 08:39 am

This is a poorly coached team. Even when they were winning they didn’t seem fully prepared, and had difficulty adjusting even to predictable adversity. That being the case, LaFleur should receive no grace.

8 points
8
0
PhantomII's picture

November 11, 2022 at 07:52 pm

Yep. Offense always operated like a car backfiring. Never crisp or smooth for more than a play here or there"IN THE ENTIRE GAME".

1 points
1
0
vin0770's picture

November 12, 2022 at 09:32 pm

What is his signature win? Certainly not a playoff stud, at home, with a bye, in the snow🤪 So is it last year at undefeated AZ minus DA and 10 other starters and AR was happy to throw it to everyone? Then AZ spiraled into the playoffs and gagged badly. Can’t think of anything else in 3.5 years 😢

1 points
1
0
coolhand's picture

November 11, 2022 at 09:46 am

So, here is mister $50 million dollar man changing the play in Detroit.

https://twitter.com/TJLang70/status/1590095334885117953?ref_src=twsrc%5E...

A simple hand off to Dillon and it's an easy TD as the line is blocking for a run and mr hero ball throws it to no one.

Look at how frustrated Jenkins is after the play. Even Bakh seems to be thinking WTF just happened?

4 points
4
0
barutanseijin's picture

November 11, 2022 at 02:20 pm

Think the team hates him? You’d have to think they would.

1 points
1
0
jlc1's picture

November 11, 2022 at 04:16 pm

31-10? That score indicates garbage time starts at the beginning of the 4th quarter, giving the Pack their TD and keeping 7-10 points off the board for the Boys. I think 37-10 is more likely.

1 points
1
0