The Lass Word: Quietly Outstanding

Offensive line is having a great year.

The morning after the Green Bay Packers Thanksgiving night victory over the Miami Dolphins, I checked the team’s official website at packers.com.  There, they had posted locker room interviews with Jordan Love, Jayden Reed, Josh Jacobs, and Tucker Kraft.  They also had put up comments from Kingsley Enagbare, Xavier McKinney, and Matt LaFleur.  There were no interviews, however, with any of the offensive linemen. 

This, of course, is quite normal.  The most popular players on any football team are those who handle the football, and those who tackle those who handle the football.  Generally speaking, O-linemen toil in relative obscurity.  Fans certainly appreciate good blocking, but these huge warriors seldom see cameras and microphones lined up around their lockers after a game.  They have jobs that are rather like those of a baseball umpire.  If they perform their task well, few take notice.  Let them make mistakes, and the spotlight finds them quickly. 

Green Bay’s offensive line is not making many mistakes lately.  In fact, they are quietly developing into an outstanding unit.  “We’re catching that rhythm, that flow,” right guard Sean Rhyan told jsonline.com.  “The coaches can kinda see what works and what doesn’t work.  We’ve got a core group of plays, a core group of pass concepts that work and we just lean on them.  When things are at a standstill and we’re not getting what we want, then we just go back to them to get us back on track.” 

Rhyan may be the best poster child for the maturation of the unit.  The 2022 third round draft pick was largely thought to be a bust after his rookie season, having been suspended for six games for violating the league substance abuse policy.  Last year he began to creep into the line-up, rotating with Jon Runyan Jr.  This year the Packers seemed determined to groom first round pick Jordan Morgan for the right guard slot, but Morgan is on injured reserve.  So Rhyan got his chance to prove his first-team mettle, and thus far he has more than held his own. 

Center Josh Myers has certainly had his critics, but the coaches love him and their faith is paying off.  Myers is enjoying his best season to date.  Versatile Zach Tom has settled into the right tackle slot.  Rasheed Walker’s competence at left tackle was, and is, a godsend after the departure of David Bakhtiari.  Elgton Jenkins might have been on a Hall of Fame track as a left guard until a knee injury ended his 2021 season.  He’s never quite regained that elite level, but remains solid, and can still play every position up front. 

Individually, you will likely see none of them on any All Pro or Pro Bowl lists at season’s end.  But the sum of their parts has added up to collective success.  Green Bay currently sits fifth in the league in offensive yards per game, fourth in rushing yards.  Josh Jacobs is on pace to have the greatest rushing season since Ahman Green’s franchise record-setting campaign in 2003.  Jacobs deserves to take a bow for his tough, athletic efforts, but the execution of the hosses in front of him has played an under appreciated role in his success. 

Jordan Love was not sacked against the Dolphins on Thanksgiving night.  In fact, he has gone down only three times in three games since the bye.  His passer rating has soared into triple digits over the past two weeks.  The O-line deserves at least a slice of the credit for the clean pockets. 

Going a little deeper into the statistical weeds, the Packers have run the ball 38 times on third down, with three or fewer yards to go.  They are averaging 3.7 yards per play in those situations.  That tells you the O-line is doing its job up front.  Green Bay has thrown the ball 35 times on third and 4 to 6 yards to go.  They have completed more than 51% of those throws, averaging 7.9 yards per play.  This means, more often than not, the Packers are converting to first down. 

The quarterback, running backs and receivers get the credit for those kinds of figures, but it couldn’t happen without above average play from the front five.  Ranking offensive lines is subjective at best, but for what it’s worth, profootballnetwork.com ranks the Packers’ O-line as fourth best in the NFL, behind, in order, Detroit, Philadelphia and Kansas City.  PFF ranks the Green Bay line fifth. 

Can you name Green Bay’s offensive line coaches?  If you didn’t come up with Luke Butkus and Eddie Gordon, don’t feel bad.  Only the most rabid of Packer fans would have the answer.  Yet they deserve a huge pat on the back for coaching up this collection into a top five unit.  Not a single starter is a first round pick.  Jenkins and Myers were taken in round two, Rhyan in round three, Tom in round four, and Walker in round seven.   

The performance of the offensive line is critical in every game to be sure, but it will be especially so in Thursday’s showdown at Detroit.  The Lions specialize in physical, aggressive play, and the Packers must match the intensity.  If Green Bay harbors any hope of winning the division, they must win this game.  A loss puts them three back plus a tiebreaker.  Realistically, the Packers are actually competing for the highest possible wild card seeding.  Three of the last five contests are tough road games at Detroit, Seattle and Minnesota. 

Winning at those venues is a major challenge, but this offensive line gives the Packers a solid shot in any game they play.  They deserve more credit for it. 

 

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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

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Comments (87)

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HarryHodag's picture

December 01, 2024 at 06:53 am

A coach I knew one time growled at me, "it all starts with the offensive line!" and I've held that knowledge all these years. His thinking was this: if you can't move the defense your defense has to play perfect ball to even be in the game. Your offense, built around the line, will rest your defense and score points. You can have a great defense and still be beaten 7-0. His theory was you had a winning offense even if the backs, ends and quarterback were mediocre.
It's no coincidence the Packers are having a positive year with an offensive line that is playing well together.

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DoubleJ's picture

December 01, 2024 at 09:20 am

Sounds like how the WI Badgers used to build their teams. Have an amazing OL and just punish then other D in the trenches.

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LLCHESTY's picture

December 01, 2024 at 07:55 pm

The offensive line wasn't great on Thursday, Myers had an especially weak game run blocking. Jacobs has been making them look better than they are for most of the year. Like Wahle has said a couple times Jacobs is having to turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad too often. Hopefully they start to play better like they did at the end of last year.

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Rebelgb's picture

December 02, 2024 at 08:41 am

LOL ok. Your delusional. Did you see the stat where they didnt give up a sack? But hey...

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LambeauPlain's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:53 pm

Well, not so fast. PFF graded the 5 lowest players on Offense vs Miami and 4 were OL: Jenkins had his worst game of the season grading out at 31.4. Walker, Myers and Rhyan all graded out at 60.

Are you calling PFF delusional too? PFF is not perfect but they did not think the OL played well at all Thursday except for Tom...but he was left off the top 5 O players on their list (he makes it most games).

So calling LL's comment delusional is quite the stretch.

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NitschkeFan's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:55 pm

@Rebelgb, I think your point about the pass-blocking abilities of the OL is valid. They do seem to be very good at pass protection. But the run-blocking is just average IMHO. Except for Zach Tom, most of the OL is not particularly good at run blocking.

This seems to have been a trend for the Packer OL for many years.

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TKWorldWide's picture

December 02, 2024 at 01:19 pm

Sean Rhyan?

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 02, 2024 at 08:31 pm

Sometimes they've gotten some good run blocking, but when it works there's almost always help from WRs and TEs. (Or another RB in a pony package)

Announcers have mentioned a "jumbo package" recently; I'll never get to see that with Caleb Jones Luke Tenuta and Kadheem Telfort, but if they weren't going to use them trade them away, I guess. I haven't been able to get caught up on how Telfort has been used lately, but I am curious ...

More consistent run blocking would certainly help!

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porupack's picture

December 01, 2024 at 07:11 am

Good piece of work Ken. A few stats still keep the Oline from elite....3rd down conversions and redzone efficiency, and penalties missing from your article. However, I think the Oline is still ascending and haven't peaked yet. Much of the average and/or below average play was early in the season...while there were still volatility and QB due to injury. GB is trending upward....at the right time.

Life is good not to be a Chigo bear fan. Yet another wasted season down the shoreline. Yet another coach. Yet more talented QBs and WR core, talented RB and solid defense that simply can't add it up; In chicago 1+1+1+1+1= -5.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:16 pm

Has Josh Myers ever played a game without injury? The fact that they've played him so much even with shoulder and/or chest injury is disturbing; it says a lot about their lack of confidence in our depth.

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GregC's picture

December 01, 2024 at 07:23 am

Pretty remarkable that they are getting this kind of performance from an O-line with a 4th round pick and a 7th round pick at the two most important positions. Depth still looks a little shaky, though you never know how good the backups are until they are called upon. Sometimes they play surprisingly well. It would be good to have Jordan Morgan back as the #6 OL for the stretch run.

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Guam's picture

December 01, 2024 at 08:04 am

Lots of thumbs up for this comment if I could GregC.

Gute deserves huge props for assembling this O-line without using major draft capital. He also may get criticized for the lack of depth if the backups have to play and don't play well. Getting Morgan back would do wonders for the depth, but I haven't heard of a possible timeframe for his return.

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ricky's picture

December 01, 2024 at 09:36 am

It's not where a player is drafted. It's whether they are a football player. Whether they have the drive and commitment to work hard, improve and always put forth their best effort. Driver was a seventh round pick. Adams was a second round pick, as was Jordy Nelson. Bakhtiari was a fourth rounder. Being chosen in the first round only guarantees you have five years to prove yourself. Time to stop looking at where these guys were drafted, and start concentrating on how they're playing. That is all that counts.

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dobber's picture

December 02, 2024 at 11:58 am

"It would be good to have Jordan Morgan back as the #6 OL for the stretch run."

Amen!

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dblbogey's picture

December 02, 2024 at 02:36 pm

Walker was such a blessing as a 7th rounder. He'll never be great, but is above average, better than most. I think Morgan was winning the right guard job early on, until the injury(ies). Hopefully he'll develop into an upgrade over Rhyan.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:22 pm

I won't say Walker will never be great, I'll let his playing and development determine that. Obviously they were hoping Jordan Morgan would be an upgrade, and so far he's been unable to do that. It seems odd to shoehorn a LT (Morgan) into RG.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:18 pm

I agree with the sentiment, but Jordan Morgan seems to need at least one offseason to pack on power and become physical enough for the NFL.

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TKWorldWide's picture

December 01, 2024 at 07:39 am

Has there ever been a top offense with a trash offensive line? I don’t need PFF to tell me “Hell no!”
GPG!

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dobber's picture

December 02, 2024 at 11:59 am

"I don’t need PFF to tell me “Hell no!”"

I sometimes have a tub of margarine yelling, "PARKAY!" at me, and that's a little disquieting.

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TKWorldWide's picture

December 02, 2024 at 01:21 pm

Would be for anyone. Totally understandable!

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NFLfan's picture

December 01, 2024 at 08:43 am

During last week's game, I watched Zach Tom approach one of the RBs after a tough run and put his arm around him. He also stepped into the fray and calmed the angry waters between Jaire/Keisean and Diggs. He was acknowledged by the coaches for quietly patrolling.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:23 pm

I saw that too!

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ricky's picture

December 01, 2024 at 09:39 am

How much is Adam Stenavich involved in the development of the OL? Yes, he was promoted to OC. But that seems to have been a way to keep him with the team, because he was/is a terrific OL coach.

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LeotisHarris's picture

December 01, 2024 at 10:50 am

Nice article, Ken. Remember, too, the Packers added James Campen as an offensive line consultant. I understood his role to be primarily in scouting, but I'll bet he's a resource throughout the organization. It would be a waste to not utilize a coach that played major role in developing Josh Sitton, David Bakhtiari, and T.J. Lang.

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Grandfathered's picture

December 02, 2024 at 06:37 pm

Fun fact regarding James Campen: In 1989 Tony Mandarich was drafted and James Campen came to Green Bay. A news article said that Mandarich and Campen were immature jokers and the locker room was out of control. The article said they did things like vomit into their hands and throw it at each other. Campen might be a good coach but was not a good influence.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:25 pm

He might be camping out at the OL?

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Spock's picture

December 01, 2024 at 10:57 am

I watched MLF's postgame podium talk and he (surprisingly, to me) seemed to take issue when one of the reporters said the OL had a great game. He went into some length about how the OL could have been better and that Jacobs was having to make people miss before crossing the line of scrimmage. Matt certainly seemed to indicate that, as far as run blocking goes, the OL was just "okay". I found that surprising.

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Turophile's picture

December 01, 2024 at 06:24 pm

That's pretty much what the mk1 eyeball says. Packers are getting what they have emphasised for more than a decade, which is superior pass blocking.

The run blocking side of the game has never received the same attention. Drafted players have been pass blockers more than run blockers, which makes sense if you have a star QB behind you, that you can keep relatively clean.

Note how many times the Packers draft tackles and play them at another position. That's the second part of the equation, Gute values guys with excellent feet over raw strength.

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Grandfathered's picture

December 02, 2024 at 06:42 pm

My understanding was that Ryhan was drafted as a run blocker, in a kind of reverse of that trend. He seemed to do better at run blocking last year in rotation with Runyon. His biggest need was to develop as a pass blocker. That was the narrativce, I don't know how he has panned out one way or the other.

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LambeauPlain's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:55 pm

PFF agreed with Matt as the 5 lowest graded players had 4 OL.

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GregC's picture

December 02, 2024 at 01:09 pm

Only one of them, Jenkins, had a really low PFF grade: 31.4. I don't know how much that was affected by his dead- ball personal foul penalty, and I doubt that anybody else knows either because most fans accept PFF grades without questioning their methodology. The other three low-rated offensive linemen had grades right around 60, which is not that bad. The Packers had their overall highest-rated PFF game of the season against the Dolphins, but somebody's gotta be last. At least it gives the fans something to complain about after a really nice win.

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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2024 at 01:14 pm

To be fair, they had Myers, Rhyan and Walker all a smidgeon above average (60). However most of that was pass driven (except, ironically, Myers, who was dinged mostly for his pass pro). They hated Jenkins day (31.4) and not just for the dumb penalty.

According to them Jenkins gave up a pressure, earned a season-low run-blocking grade and was penalized 15 yards for unnecessary roughness. Walker gave up two hurries in pass protection and had a false start. Myers gave up three pressures, including a quarterback hit. Rhyan wasn’t charged with a pressure but had a very low run-blocking grade. I have to say, Jenkins had an atypically off day that hopefully won’t be repeated, but that PFF’s observations mostly fit my impressions.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2024 at 04:13 pm

My impression is that Miami had played 5 straight games without giving up 100 on the ground, and they managed to keep one of the most formidable ground attacks in the league 30 yards under their average.

Translation: An above average running attack faced an above average run defense. We scored 30 points. Despite Jenkins having a bad day, and any other perceived shortcomings.

I've never been much of a PFF guy, ever since they were so laudatory of Brad Jones. He was one of our highest rated defenders in the game Kaepernick sliced us up. I think there's waaaaayy too much value in splash plays and not enough value in the guys who come in and do their job quietly.

Look at Nixon, look at Alexander. One's a journeyman who stays available, the other is an elite CB who misses half the games. Which one has more value?

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splitpea1's picture

December 01, 2024 at 11:22 am

The right side of the OL from Myers on out has been looking real good. It's especially nice to see Rhyan develop the way he has--a lot of people, including myself, wondered what was taking so long for him to see extended action. He's started all 12 games and played 85% of the offensive snaps this season.

Don"t forget the contributions from the WRs as well; smaller guys such as Reed and Melton have made great blocks in the last two games in paving the way for Jacobs.

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LLCHESTY's picture

December 01, 2024 at 07:59 pm

Myers had a crap game on Thursday.

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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2024 at 07:46 am

Rhyan wasn’t much better and Jenkins had perhaps his worst game of the season (in which he’s otherwise played well) . Neither of our last two opponents posed much of a defensive threat in the trenches. We do not have a top OL. We have a decent one, most notably, 2 good Ts.

Walker has held up very well in pass pro, despite his early penalty issues. Tom is the stand out, Jenkins has mostly been very good. Rhyan has been better, but has also been up and down. Myers has been very much like he’s always been. Decent in pass pro, inconsistent at best in the run game.

The difference is we’ve had RBs that are breaking tackles at a rate we have not seen in years. The yards after contact performance by all 3 is remarkable. The vast majority of those have been close to the line of scrimmage. Too little credit to the runners is being afforded here.

I realize there is a cadre of people who think our OL is amazing. It’s not awful, it’s got maybe 3/5ths that’s good to very good. It’s not one of the best; although it’s in the top half at pass pro it’s certainly not at run blocking, which is now pretty central to the Jacobs era and play style. We need to get better if we are seriously going for a Super Bowl. Sorry to those who want everything to be lauded for adequacy in the regular season.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 12:11 am

He's playing hurt, but isn't he always?

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 12:10 am

#9 has been absolutely TRUCKING people! I was really surprised to see that. "A physical brand of football," I guess :)

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stockholder's picture

December 01, 2024 at 11:41 am

Zero sacks- Last game.
Remind me why we drafted Morgan @#1, again.
Because Walker has been outstanding.

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Packitin's picture

December 01, 2024 at 01:40 pm

Probably because Walker hadn't established himself yet. To me, it is only a 'bad' pick in hindsight.
That said, I REALLY would have liked Cooper DeJean at that spot, and (again) hindsight makes that a better choice.

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Turophile's picture

December 01, 2024 at 06:36 pm

Too soon to look into the rearview mirror for definitive answers, Packitin. How good the Morgan pick is (relative to other choices) will take years to determine.

Also, DeJean has been only average so far, not stellar. Using the same rearview glasses, The Packers got more bang for their buck with Evan Williams, drafted at 111th overall.

They also got Javon Bullard 58th overall (DeJean was taken 40th). They did an outstanding job upgrading safety with Bullard, Williams and adding veteran McKinney, so I cannot agree with, or even understand your point of view.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 12:12 am

None of that makes Jordan Morgan a bad pick.

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DoubleJ's picture

December 01, 2024 at 04:12 pm

IDK how many times this has to be said but you DON'T draft for that year. You draft for the future as in years 2,3,4+ in said players career. This is also why you cannot say XYZ draft was good or bad after only one year. How often do we see players do great as a rookie and then struggle afterwards. People were ready to annoint Stroud as a HOF QB after his rookie year. Guess what he hasn't been that good this year.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2024 at 09:20 am

He was drafted because you need to replenish the position. You don't draft for immediacy, you draft for the future.

I realize there are a lot of moving parts, but one reason you draft Morgan at #1 is to give yourself leverage when it's time for second contracts for Walker and Toms. You also have insurance on injury. Why is this hard for you to comprehend? You can afford to use 7th round flyers on a guy like Walker when you have Bakhtiari, but when you have uncertainty you need to plan for a future. Why is having long range planning is so difficult for you to understand is a mystery. They drafted Rodgers with Favre under contract, Love with Rodgers under contract. You build by seeing further out than the next game.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 12:12 am

We have too many great O linemen now?!?

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jannes bjornson's picture

December 03, 2024 at 07:35 pm

Outstanding earns Pro Bowl awards. I'll wait and see.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 01, 2024 at 02:52 pm

I love it. I always thought our starters would be pretty good, and we've enjoyed pretty good health.

Pigskin Law #6: Nothing good happens on offense unless people get blocked. They all look good on the chalkboard, because you always get the Xs blocked. Real games don't happen like that because the Xs are actively trying to thwart you.

If these guys stay healthy, we've got a shot against anybody, IMO. If Jacobs has the ball, he has to be tackled, and people who are blocked don't make tackles.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OK, before the offseason, before the draft stuff starts, put me down as in favor of getting quality beef on the Oline, because Myers, Tom, Walker, and Rhyan will all have to be replaced or given a second contract.

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Guam's picture

December 01, 2024 at 04:21 pm

I second the idea of an O-line heavy draft. I suspect having Myers, Tom, Walker and Rhyan coming up for contract next year is part of the reason for drafting Morgan even though there wasn't an obvious spot to play him immediately. I was surprised they didn't draft more O-line help last year and kind of expected the #3 they used on Hopper was going to be an O-lineman.

At least two if not three O-linemen in the next draft please!

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Coldworld's picture

December 01, 2024 at 04:45 pm

Tom we need to keep. Then we need to add depth, how much in part depends on how good they think Glover, Monk and Telfort really are and how high their ceiling is. Neither Myers nor Rhyan are worth the kind of money Runyon got. Walker is also a cost/benefit decision, though as a LT, the numbers are likely bigger.

I’d pay Tom top dollar, but I think Walker may get an offer above what makes sense. Hopefully not, but that is where this year’s top pick comes in—in negotiating positioning as well as play. We might see Tom move to the left and Morgan the right if so. Hopefully, now we have Jacobs, we see more of an emphasis on run blocking as well as pass blocking capability.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 01, 2024 at 05:15 pm

My calculus is that Myers will walk at the end of this season and we'll use a premium pick in the draft to replace him. Tom should be the priority resign. I think we'll have to let Walker walk and put Morgan in at LT. So then we're set at both tackle spots and Center.

I don't know if Rhyan is worth Runyan money, but I didn't think Runyan was worth Runyan money. Jenkins is old by NFL standards, costs more money than all the rest of our Oline combined, and is still a very good offensive lineman.

In this next draft, in addition to replacing Myers, we should draft a versatile Olineman.

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DoubleJ's picture

December 01, 2024 at 05:39 pm

Tom needs to be resigned this off-season and I'd say perhaps try Watson as well as it could be cheaper for him. Meyers is a dime a dozen C so get a good one in the draft. Depending on how Walker and Wyatt end the season will make whether to give them a Y5 contract or not.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2024 at 09:27 am

Walker is a starting left tackle in the NFL. There is no "cheaper" when it comes to starting left tackles.

Also, there are no "dime a dozen" 4 year starters at center in the NFL. There are possibly 45 starting quality centers on the planet at any one time, and the Packers are fortunate to have one. Myers is a good pass blocker and he's a devastating downfield blocker. Do you suppose this offense could actually be good if the line wasn't good/great?

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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2024 at 11:54 am

Myers is a replacement level C. He’s above par in pass pro and below it at a run blocker. No different this year than previously. Walker has been very good in pass pro. The question. Isn’t whether we will want to keep him but whether we can pay him and Tom what it will take. I somewhat doubt that. Complicating that is the reality that Tom could likely be as good or better at LT and is likely to need paying as such. In top of that is the presence of Morgan and how and where they see him long term.

Walker and Tom are signed through next year as I understand it. I’d expect Tom to get a new deal this off season and the team to defer on Walker at least till after June 1. That may help increase cap flexibility. If they sign both, then I definitely expect C and RG to be allowed to walk (Myers) if he gets a decent offer and Rhyan to play next season on his existing deal.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 12:23 am

We're actually doing well re: cap space, so letting quality O linemen walk may not be necessary. Getting through this season will reveal a lot about who's worth how much.

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DoubleJ's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:28 pm

"Watson is a starting left tackle in the NFL. There is no "cheaper" when it comes to starting left tackles."

You mean Rasheed Walker. Watson is a WR.

"Do you suppose this offense could actually be good if the line wasn't good/great?"

Myers is at best an average C in the NFL. However, so far this year his PFF grade is 52.1 which is below average. He could be easily replaced in the draft. IMO the offense would be even better if we didn't have Myers as our C.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2024 at 04:04 pm

Referencing PFF tells me that you don't use your eyes and that success isn't the standard that you judge by.

If Meyers is so easily replaceable, why isn't he replaced? Do you think the coaching staff is tanking? Explain that to me. I didn't get the memo that the Packers were entitled to all-pros at every position. The line has played great - how does that happen with so many sub-standard players?

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Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2024 at 04:34 pm

BNS....since you are sane enough to understand this....

Josh Myers is easily replaceable, yeah or nay?

1) Most of the centers in the league are on their rookie deals.
2) It's a fairly stable position. Out of the 32 teams, about 24 of them will have the same center next year.
3) There's a half-dozen Centers that will be looking for a second contract, and none of them really have a more impressive resume than Myers.
4) I think that given financial constraints, it makes more sense to spend a premium draft pick to replace Myers than it does to spend any real money on him. Other OL need to be resigned, too.
5) If he doesn't resign with the Packers, he'll get offers.

This notion that we can draft some Day 3 guy who'll be better than Myers, right out of the box or soon after, is just fantasyland blather. It's not that easy. Myers is an experienced vet and whatever rookie you roll in here isn't going to be. Yes, maybe you can take the best, or second best, OL in the draft. And maybe he'll stay healthy. And maybe he'll eventually be better. But that's a lot of maybes, IMO.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2024 at 07:44 pm

i choose to live my life in the real world, not Madden. Josh Myers may not be here next year, and yet he may be. He's dependable. He won't be here for huge money, because that's not the profile we pay. Myers replaced Lindsley who was a pretty fair center who we let walk. I assume the same will occur.

We may stop gap by moving Jenkins to his true spot, but Jenkins is older, less dependable and a lot more expensive than Myers. It's hard to see how we keep paying Jenkins more than anyone else on the line, but he's a hell of a flexible player, and was possibly slated for tackle when Bakh first got hurt. I'm pretty certain the people who matter will get this sorted.

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DoubleJ's picture

December 03, 2024 at 07:35 am

"Referencing PFF tells me that you don't use your eyes and that success isn't the standard that you judge by."

I referenced PFF because it gives a number for what your eyes see. Most of the time Myers is fine, however, he has a mental lapse or four EVERY game that can stop a drive. How many times do you need to see Myers whiff on a block, and that happens EVERY game, before your eyes go "you know what he really isn't that good."

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 12:19 am

You have a MUCH higher regard for Josh Myers than anyone else does, but then again we've never seen him play without an injury to shoulder and/or chest.

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GregC's picture

December 01, 2024 at 06:30 pm

With Jordan Morgan they are six deep on the offensive line right now. If Josh Myers leaves as expected, they are back to five. The big question is whether Jacob Monk, Travis Glover, and maybe Kadeem Telfort will be good enough to provide quality depth next year. That would make them eight deep on the O-line, but it seems like a long shot that all three of them are capable. Only the coaches know how good they've looked in practice this season. If at least two of them are good enough to be solid backups, maybe the Packers will only need to draft one O-lineman with an early to mid-round pick next year. On the other hand, the only position that is obviously a bigger priority is CB. Beyond that, they could go in a lot of different directions with their early draft picks.

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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:01 pm

I expect at least 2 IOL to be drafted in the early mid rounds this year. Rhyan will be in his final year. Jenkins has 2 years left but will be 32 by the end of that. We should be looking to build behind both and will need additional depth at C too. I do quite like the G they just picked up, Marquis Hayes. It’s possible he can enter the equation now he’s healthy rather than just be a PS number. Mean, strong, G.

Whether we take a T depends on what they think of Glover and on their desire/anticipated ability to keep Walker. If they aren’t confident we will need another. Dillard will be gone and Telfort appears to be G depth primarily.

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GregC's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:13 pm

I wonder if Donovan Jennings will be a factor. They gave him extra money as an undrafted player, but he was hurt during all of training camp and ended up on the practice squad. Maybe with a fresh start next year, he could make the roster as a backup guard. He's a high RAS guy who played a ton of games at left tackle at South Florida. He projected as a guard in the NFL, and the Packers list him as a G/T on the roster.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 02:06 am

Mean, strong guard? Where can we get a dozen?

It would be nice if Dillard played up to his draft position, or even third or fourth round expectations ...

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dobber's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:12 pm

They gave Donovan Jennings a bucketload of cash (relatively speaking) as a UDFA and he's been residing on the PS all season. I've been expecting him to be the next man when a spot opens, but it (thankfully) hasn't happened.

I think they have early draft needs--at least as it looks now--at CB and DL/DE. Depending on what they see in Monk and Glover, I think you're right in that we could see another OL draft in 2025 that looks a lot like the 2024 draft (one higher OL and dabbling in the pool later).

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 02:08 am

Gutey certainly needs to add CB in the draft, too ...

I really did not expect LB to be looking thin.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 01, 2024 at 05:18 pm

Obviously, we have some other areas that could use help, and maybe Monk and Glover are pretty good but the guys ahead of them are better. I don't know. But definitely put me down for more than one guy in the Top 120 or so.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2024 at 09:29 am

Clearly the Packers have always operated with the O-line as a priority. Part of 30+ years of hall of fame quarterback play is protection...

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Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2024 at 02:41 pm

During the Long Dry Spell, we had one Pro Bowl lineman, Larry McCarren. That was about a 20 year stretch. But that was one of the things that changed in the 90s.

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Grandfathered's picture

December 02, 2024 at 06:53 pm

Monk was drafted as a replacement center in the 5th round and moved up 5 picks to get him. I don't think he's played yet, and I don't recall hearing about him in the pre-season. He still could be a nice surprise replacement for Myers.

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NFLfan's picture

December 02, 2024 at 09:06 am

There are also strong needs for defensive backs and d-line.

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dobber's picture

December 02, 2024 at 12:13 pm

Could not agree more.

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Turophile's picture

December 02, 2024 at 07:44 pm

We don't need a safety, but a CB is very much a need and I'd say the most urgent need, by some distance.

Having lost Gary (oops, I did actually mean Preston Smith) we need another pass rusher - and the Packers can now lean into good fits for a predominantly 4-3 defense. I wouldn't say no to a good DT either.

O line, yes - at least one almost every year and sometimes as many as three. If there is only one taken it could be at any position, depending on how the Packers want to arrange their best O line players.

QB not really, RB no, TE no, WR maybe - if they want to keep young at the position to avoid the huge WR contracts. ILB maybe. CB certainly - probably two of them.

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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2024 at 07:57 pm

Going to be tough to restock while drafting dead last. Oh well, KC has made their way OK. Gutekunst will be able to roll with it. I guess it will keep everyone in the building while the Packers host.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 02:11 am

Gary hasn't gone anywhere, did you mean Preston Smith?

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Turophile's picture

December 03, 2024 at 04:48 am

Yeah, I did mean Smith. I'm getting old.

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GregC's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:17 am

I know a lot of people were disappointed with the run blocking in the Dolphins game, and Matt LaFleur was critical as well, but the team averaged 4.6 yards per carry, which is better than average. It was Josh Jacobs who struggled, averaging just 2.8 yards per carry. I think it was largely because the Dolphins focused on stopping Jacobs. He was on the field when Jayden Reed took an end-around for 23 yards. The Dolphins were expecting another Jacobs run between tackles. Maybe the defense keying on Jacobs was also a factor in their lack of pass rush. The Packers allowed no sacks, and there was usually plenty of time to throw.

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SamLaur's picture

December 02, 2024 at 10:39 am

Crazy !

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Since'61's picture

December 02, 2024 at 11:59 am

The Packers offense will go as far as their OL takes them. To a large degree the entire goes as far as their OL takes them. The Packers OL is having a very good season. They will face difficult challenges on the road against the Lions, Seahawks and Vikings.

They need to win the Lions game to have any hope of capturing the division title. A loss probably means they won't win the division and their playoff seeding could take a hit as well.

The Packers are playing with confidence and taking the Lions game enhances their playoff chances and seeding. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61

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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2024 at 01:05 pm

The Lions have not been their best recently, but you know that they will be fired up for this one. It should be a good test if they aren’t too depleted after last week’s injuries. Ultimately, I don’t think it matters if they win the Division. What is important is whether we can start firing on all cylinders more or less consistently. If we can avoid the bizarrely dumb penalties, I think we have the horsepower if we can keep the O in rhythm and maintain the more aggressive defensive coverage we saw last week against another QB who gets the ball out fast and accurately.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 02:23 am

I'd be ok with a win against a depleted Lions team

Fourth seed sees a much easier playoff schedule than seventh, and no way will the winner of the NFC north be the fourth seed.

It's go time! Lots of Packers are playing very well, a few aren't, and increasingly few are completely out with injury. I don't expect Ja to truly be "back" this season, even if he gets back on the field; hopefully I'll be proven wrong about that. Ja at 75% is still a pretty good DB ...

#85 at full strength with no injuries will be an interesting development, whenever that happens. Pretty sure that won't be til next season. Has Josh Myers ever played when he's not hurt? #9 has been absolutely TRUCKING people recently, he looks completely fearless; I think that means hamstring woes are a thing of the past. Getting him really in sync with JL10 and cooking can change a game in very few plays, totally dependent on our O line being at least solid, of course. There have been times this season they've looked DOMINANT - more of that please!

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LambeauPlain's picture

December 02, 2024 at 01:22 pm

The OL is ok...most NFL analysts tend to agree with Packers' rankings in the lower half to as high as the top half with one ranking the #4. But there is no consensus. All over the board.

The same issues as last year remain...solid pass protection, below average run blocking. The good news is they have been playing decent as a unit...until Thursday night. The run game performance is due to better RB unit of JJ, Wilson, and Brooks vs last year's Jones & Dillon. Downfield blocking has also been very good this season.

Thursday was not a good game for the OL which make the timing of Ken's article surprising. They played well enough to win thanks to missed tackles on skill players and some outstanding WR/TE blocking at the second level creating chunk plays.

While they did not give a a sack (which was outstanding)...there were about 7 pressures that affected where Love had to go with the ball. 3 pressures given up by Meyers...one was a hard hit on Love. Jenks' 15 yard roughness penalty was a drive killer.

I'd grade them so far as a B-/C+...and they have some upside with the great Tom, solid Walker. Myers is still stuck in the mediocrity of the last two seasons. Rhyan has some upside. But Jenks is have a rough year and some are surely due to nagging injuries because he tends to fight through pains others deal with on the bench.

I still maintain the Packers need to draft an OL on day one or two of the draft every year. And look for those diamonds in the rough on day 3.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 02:27 am

I don't see Jenkins as playing poorly all season, but I do see sporadic bits of play that's been surprisingly below what I've always relied on him for. Hopefully all that's in the rearview mirror now ...

GPG!

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canadapacker's picture

December 02, 2024 at 05:40 pm

As I was about to post on the article about Quay Walker now being over the hump. 1 or 2 games does not a season make. The same can be said about the Oline - one or 2 games without a whole bunch of false starts or a no sack game against a team that doesnt get a whole bunch of sacks - second lowest in the League. I like our Oline - but there is room for improvement and we have a few games ahead of us to show - And I believe that our running backs are also a big reason that the Oline is looking better - Jacobs doesnt get tackled usually by the first guy and unlike Dillon - not many times are we stopped dead behind the line of scrimmage.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 03, 2024 at 04:10 am

I'll agree with that, and so did MLF. Much improved, much more improvement yet to go. Although the actual changes that most obviously need to be made are now minor! Here's hoping they can accomplish that much this season, and it would be so much better if they could do that in Detroit! 🍻

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JohnaThan's picture

December 02, 2024 at 09:57 pm

The Packers must maintain control of the game from Thursday night, much like mastering a level in precision and timing are key. If they stay focused and avoid distractions, they can navigate through obstacles successfully, just as players do in the game.

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droveshe's picture

December 03, 2024 at 01:25 am

Cool!

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