The Lass Word: Sometimes, All of Us Are Wrong

And thank goodness for that.

It was the first day of the 2019 NFL draft.  The Green Bay Packers owned the twelfth pick in the first round.  It was their highest position in round one in eleven years.  They had to succeed on this one.  The pressure was on. 

 

General Manager Brian Gutekunst was in his second year of making the final choices.  As the Packers went on the clock, Commissioner Roger Goodell strode to the podium and announced Green Bay had selected..........Michigan defensive lineman Rashan Gary. 

 

Packer fans emitted a collective gasp.  TV commentators immediately condemned the selection as a reach.  In college at Michigan, Gary had established a reputation as being an incredible athlete who had not produced to his potential on the field.  He was the classic coach killer.  That player whom every coach feels they can make into a star, but who never pans out.  

 

Making the pick even more baffling was the fact that Gutekunst drafted Gary with the intention of converting him to an edge rusher.  This, after he had just signed two high-priced free agent edge rushers in Za’darius Smith and Preston Smith.  His number one selection, the twelfth pick in the draft, wouldn’t even start! 

 

One website that covers the team ran a headline stating “Has Gutekunst Gone Off His Rocker?”  Dane Brugler of The Athletic wrote of Gary,  “He is the poster prospect for the traits over production scouting motto.”  Lance Zerlein, writing for nfl.com, penned “Production as rusher failed to match traits and talent”.  The Green Bay fan base was beside itself, panning the pick on all fronts.  Gutey was in over his head, we all said.  Worst first round pick since Justin Harrell, or even the legendary Tony Mandarich. 

 

Gary’s rookie season made the dissonant voices even louder.  While the so-called Smith Brothers each racked up double digit sacks, Gary played less than twenty-four percent of the defensive snaps, accumulating just two sacks, three tackles for loss, and three quarterback hits.  See?  we all said.  He’s a bust, just like we thought.   

 

Yet the coaching staff never wavered in their faith in the 6’5”, 277 pound giant.  They saw him in  practice every day.  They couldn’t give up on potential that flew off the charts.  The speed, the agility, combined with that size and strength.  It was a rare combination.  “We’re pleased with where he is” said Mike Pettine, who was the defensive coordinator at the time.  “We knew he was going to be a little bit of a work in progress.  As we get closer we’re going to try to hone that down and put him in position where we know he’s ready to excel.”   

 

Yeah, right, we all thought.  Just a coach saying what a coach has to say to try to save face. 

 

Then, about halfway through Gary’s second season in 2020, something unexpected began to happen.    Numbers for Preston Smith were down.  The team was asking him to drop back in coverage more often.  But with Preston’s absence on big plays, number 52 was starting to become a regular sight around the quarterback and at the line of scrimmage.  The first round pick was starting to......contribute.  In a meaningful way.  Was it an illusion?  Was this just the typical, occasional flash that a coach killer always displays?    

 

By week twelve, in a game against the Eagles, Gary’s improvement became palpable.  The New Jersey native had a sack and a half in that game, four tackles, a tackle for loss, and two quarterback hits.  The Packers won 30-16.  Gary’s playing time in his second season increased to around 44 percent.  His sack total, including a sack and a half in the playoffs against the Rams, went up to 6.5.  His quarterback hits rose to 14.   

 

Okay, we thought.  Maybe he’s not a total bust.  He could be a good rotational player when one of the Smith brothers needs a breather.  One could sense that, oh so gradually, the narrative was changing. 

 

The most significant moment in Gary’s young career came on opening day of the 2021 season.  It occurred when Za’darius Smith, trying to come back from a nagging back problem, played eighteen snaps, after which he felt so much pain in his back, he had to leave the game.  He would not return until the playoffs.  His absence created a cavernous gap in the Green Bay defense.  A gap Rashan Gary had to fill.   

 

It was his time.  His chance.  All the critics, doubters, second guessers be damned.  He was determined to prove them all wrong. 

 

Prove it he did.  By the time the regular season had come to a close, Gary had amassed a team high 9.5 sacks.  He finished seventh in the league with 28 quarterback hits and, according to Pro Football Focus, was second in the NFL among edge rushers in total pressures with 81.  Then, on national television in the divisional round of the playoffs, the ex-Wolverine transcended from productive player, to star.  He sacked 49ers quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo twice, both on third downs, to kill drives.  In the fourth quarter he made a tremendous stop on 4th and one at the Green Bay 19 yard line to kill another series.  His final stat line for the game read two sacks, four solo tackles, three tackles for loss, and three quarterback hits.  What a way to cap a season. 

 

Besides Gary, there were twelve other defensive linemen and edge rushers drafted in the first round in 2019.  They were Nick Bosa (2), Quinnen Williams (3), Clelin Ferrell (4), Josh Allen (7), Ed Oliver (9), Christian Wilkins (13), Brian Burns (16), Dexter Lawrence (17), Jeffrey Simmons (19), Montez Sweat (26), Jerry Tillery (28), and L J Collier (29).  After three seasons, Gary ranks fifth among that group in sacks, ninth in tackles for loss, and fifth in quarterback hits. 

 

However, in the 2021 season, Gary was second only to Bosa in sacks, and as previously mentioned, was second in the entire league in total pressures.  He will enter 2022 as one of the premier edge rushers in the game.  He has certainly won over Packer fans.  In our minds, he has gone from bust to best.  

 

The moral of the story is simply this:  Don’t give up on a player too quickly.  Sometimes all of us are wrong.  No one was more critical and vocal in his criticism of the Gary pick than me.  I couldn’t have been more mistaken. 

 

Now I'm hoping I'm equally wrong about Jordan Love.  Because, based on what I've seen so far, I don't think he's very good either.  

 

-----------------------------------

Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

NFL Categories: 
13 points

Comments (79)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
scoonie_penn's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:19 am

How about for S and Giggles GB trades Tae to CAR for B Burns and I get my cake and eat it too. I know, I know it will never happen but can't you let me dream a little.

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MikeDV34's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:40 am

Tae isn't under contract.

7 points
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Turophile's picture

February 04, 2022 at 05:06 pm

Some fans need to apply what we learned with Gary and others like Nijman, to some other Packers players.

For example rookie RG Newman has not looked that good for most of the season. I wasn't a fan of him at draft time, but all that starting experience he got allowed him to show improvement by the end of the season. If he continues his progress next year, he could be a keeper. I feel better about him now than I did on draft day.

Equally, WR Amari Rodgers has shown nothing in his rookie season. "Too slow" said one disappointed fan. I replied to that by saying Davante Adams ran a 4.56 at draft time. A receiver is more than just speed. Strength, like Sterling Sharpe had, can win, so can the ability to run excellent routes, not to mention having the height to outjump defenders. Receivers often take until their 2nd or even 3rd year to shine, so although Amari looks like nothing now, I'll wait until well into 2022 before settling into a decision on whether he should stay.

Love is the poster boy for those that want to make a fast decision on how good he is. Until he gets the best part of a season starting, it will be difficult to decide if he is a future starter or not. For me the jury is still out, we haven't seen nearly enough to make any confident statement about his ability.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:09 am

Man, I REALLY disliked the Amari Rodgers pick, because there were some players I liked a lot more still on the board. (I picked Nico Collins) But I disliked the R Gary pick MORE. I was definitely wrong on that one. I find it interesting that the coaches constantly praise his motor/effort, because that was the area that made me want to avoid him; In some college games, I literally saw him stop when plays went away from him. I often wonder if the constant "motor praise" isn't actually a coaching technique--trying (successfully) to shape his behavior.

Love reminds me a lot of Dak Prescott. We'll find out eventually.

Newman is a good guy to bring up. He was mostly off my radar--I wanted a center, and OG and OT both seemed in good hands. I now think he will be a solid starter for many years. It was extremely impressive that the high quality OL coaches chose HIM to start the year.

I'd have been happy with "my pick" at 4-142 as well: Kenny Gainwell (who I had as one of my draft crushes)

3 points
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Guam's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:48 am

Spot on comment about Jordan Love Turophile. None of us have seen enough of him to know what the Packers have. I do remember Aaron Rodgers' first season as a starter where the Packers went 6-10 with a roster that had made the playoffs the previous year with Favre.

I think Love will struggle next year if he is the starter (as almost every first year starting QB does) and it will be at least two years before the Packers really know what they have in Jordan Love. Rebuilds are not fun, but they provide the foundation for a better future. I can live with a rough 2022 season.

7 points
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MarkinMadison's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:54 am

I think we agree. My problem was never with Nijman. My problem was with the expectations that a lot of posters here put on Nijman based off of his RAS numbers. Guy was an UDFA for a reason. He needed time to develop, and really, he still does. When OLBs were out wide he was trying to kick-slide and couldn't get to the spot. Same thing happens when the Bakh is back against the Lions and he does a beautiful jump set and freezes all of that out. I have no problem with Yosh. I have a problem with people who expected him to come in and steal a starting job.

Similar thoughts on Newman. Fourth round pick. Asked to start from day 1. I didn't really think he was ready, and the injuries around him certainly didn't help hijm. Did a reasonably good job, but he was vulnerable to trickery. He will learn.

With Gary, top half of Round 1, people are going to have higher expectations. That is fine, I get it, but he was making a big leap from the DL to OLB. He had to work on his skills. Now that he has done that, he has this rare size/agility combo that just makes him deadly. The Packers will sign him to a long-term deal when they have cap space and he will be a cornerstone of the defense for a decade. I was never as down on this pick as some.

6 points
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barutanseijin's picture

February 04, 2022 at 12:09 pm

Wait and see doesn’t apply equally to all draftees. For example, Amari Rodgers looks S L O W . He won’t be getting any faster. His upper limit appears to be a TyMo type, for whom everyone waited patiently to improve and get over a bunch of injuries. Montgomery had a few flashes, but the wait wasn’t worth it. By the time he got cut, his shiftiness still wasn’t enough to make up for his lack of speed and smarts.

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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:01 pm

Most players play faster once they learn the game. First and even second year players generally play much slower b/c they are still learning the game and thinking too much, and even standing and watching, trying to figure things out. By later year two or year three, many play faster b/c they know what they are doing, they don't have to stop and think and their football instincts can start to shine. Davante is no speedster either. Neither was James Jones. He was plenty fast in testing time for the 40. But's he clearly not ready to play the game at full speed.

2 points
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barutanseijin's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:50 pm

Then again, Cobb was electrifying as a rookie. In his very first pro game he returned a kick 108 yds for a TD and scored a TD on offense. He slowed down a few years in, and his return game wasn’t as good later on.

Aside from Cobb, Montgomery is the closest comparison to Rodgers. TyMo had a few nice returns his rookie season. He showed something and he’s stuck around longer in the pros than most. There’s something to be said for that.

As for Rodgers, his best return was ~20yds. Opposing teams had no respect for him; they tried to force him to run it out. Plus, the dude could not get snaps as a WR. I think guys who can’t get on the field are generally not even JAGs. You gotta show something. No team can afford to waste practice reps or coaching on non-contributors.

At any rate, they drafted him so they’re stuck with him until something better comes along. That might not be long.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 05, 2022 at 08:16 am

Sports performance has a large element of personality involved. Temperament has a big impact on how individuals play and settle. I’m inclined to think that Rodgers is one who needs to find his comfort zone and just play football instinctively, if only because I’m not seeing the same athlete as his college film suggests.

One comment I have heard on AmRod is that he looks great on the scout team but then seems to tense up and lose it when placed with Rodgers. If true, it’s quite possible we are seeing a guy who is overthinking and hesitant.

I’m not arguing AmRod looked good. I’m just suggesting that there are some reasons to suspect we haven’t seen the Athlete he is this year. I will be interested to watch him in the preseason and see if he starts to flash.

1 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

February 07, 2022 at 07:39 pm

I readily admit I was very disappointed with 8 this year, but I am hoping you're correct, and he plays much faster next year. (Has to be much faster, cuz just a little faster, he's still slow...) Lol

Seriously though, there should be a 2nd year jump for 8, which will really help this offense, since Cobb and DA will probably be history.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:41 pm

Well said! Get so tired of all the negative naysayers comments about a young player who has barely played. Talk about drama & emotion! Seriously?

0 points
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:52 am

I too am eating crow, though a small helping, as I picked Brian Burns, though I REALLY wanted Jeffrey Simmons based on his tape; I just wasn't sure about his character.

This was my 2019 draft vs. the Packers: 1-12 Brian Burns-ED (Rashan Gary-ED), 1-21 Jawaan Taylor-OT (Darnell Savage-S), 2-44 Juan Thornhill-S (Elgton Jenkins-OL), 3-75 Hakeem Butler-WR (Jace Sternberger-TE) Kind of a wash.

I didn't like the Kevin King or Jordan Love picks either. (In 2017 I picked TJ Watt and Cooper Kupp with my first two; the Packers took King and Josh Jones :-( ) 2018 was just as bad: (1-14 Derwin James-S, I never would have made that trade) Okay, so WITH the trade: 1-18 Leighton VanDerEsch-LB (Jaire Alexander-CB), 2-45 Carlton Davis-CB (Josh Jackson-CB), 3-88 Mark Andrews-TE (Oren Burks-LB) Seriously.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:33 am

I liked Gary from the outset. I was sure that he was a beast who his college held back (felt the same about Nijman) and with a terrific work effort once one grasped his role. A player who could just dominate if given time to adjust. I was thrilled with Stokes where we picked him. I also liked Savage. Though that outcome is less clear, I still believe he will click. I was a big fan of the Dillon pick and what he might bring to this team as well as his film.

Since they are the only players we’ve picked up in recent years I’m obviously a (sarcastic) winner. I exclude high priced vet FAs, I’d have overall done a massively worse job than Gute even with the above. So would everyone here in my view. We’d all have missed on players who far exceeded our proximate choices. That gets to be old wine fast.

4 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:04 pm

Me too, Coldworld. It looked to me like GB had the chance to draft a true standout defensive player who wasn't picked earlier b/c he was limited in college by the role they had him play, was very young, and was seen as too raw. It seemed perfect to have him in the wings while the Smith Bros started. GB was never going to be able to afford both Smiths for too long if they were productive. I always thought Gary would develop and didn't count year one against him at all.

1 points
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Turophile's picture

February 04, 2022 at 05:03 pm

From that draft, Burns is playing very nicely (but he is a bit light for what the Packers prefer), Ferrell was a disappointment and Sweat was......ok.

I wanted DL Simmons as well. A lot. and after some digging I wasn't worried about character. WR D.K.Metcalf (went at #64) was my other 'crush' at the time.

I was never really down on Gary, just a bit wary at his lack of great numbers in college given his athletic talents (that was partly due to his responsibilities in the scheme).

I was totally on board with the idea of getting a 1st round QB. Maybe it was a year early, but that means less than nothing if the one you picked turned out to be the right one. Didn't have much opinion of Love either way at draft time, it was more the idea of investing a high pick in a QB, that I liked.

I did like the idea of an OC (Jenkins) in round 2. An out of left field pick, but I was on board. Didn't realise then what a super talented and versatile guy he was. Great choice looking back.

In 2017, WR Kupp (went 69th) would have been light years better than Josh Jones, just as T.J watt proved much better than Kevin King, but I never worry much about coulda, shoulda. With hindsight we can all see that (not saying you didn't see that earlier).

3 points
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albert999's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:53 am

Review by Daniel Jeremiah
Boise State WR Khalil Shakir
Shakir has phenomenal hands and he is quick. The two-time All-Mountain West pick looks like a ready-made NFL slot receiver. He reminds me a lot of Amon-Ra St. Brown, who led the Lions in receiving as a rookie in 2021 after being drafted in the fourth round.
Dump Cobb and draft this kid

5 points
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:12 am

I like Shakir as well; though the guy whose play he reminds me of is Donald Driver.

2 points
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stockholder's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:35 am

Gutey drafted Rodgers for the slot. We Need guys who stretch the field. I read The Lions want 2 Wrs this draft. If Gutey doesn't go up in the second. He won't get a good one later. And with Moore and St, Brown already cut. WRs have the biggest RISK in a DRAFT.

-1 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:51 am

Just think, if we trade AR to Denver or whoever, we might have the 9th pick in the 1st and 2nd round this year? (IDK what we'll get, but it is possible...)

The 9th pick in the 2nd round would be an optimum place to take a WR...

Just saying... : )

7 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:07 pm

Great, we can get WRs; we just won't have anyone to throw them the ball. After 30 years of Hall of Fame QB play, this is one nervous football fan.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 05, 2022 at 08:25 am

What are you worried about? Not winning the division? If it’s that we don’t win the Super Bowl, I think you should be just as worried if we bring Rodgers back.

More of the same with less is no reliable source of hope and that’s our choice. Relax. The next Packer QB to win a Super Bowl is almost certainly not named Rodgers. That reality doesn’t change whether it’s Love or someone yet to be born.

0 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

February 07, 2022 at 07:47 pm

Hell, if they keep Love even half-way clean, he can complete a bunch of passes. If he's running for his life, he won't. AR is other-worldly, so you can't expect Love to be AR this year. I do expect him to be AR of 2007 though... Maybe even better than AR in 2007.

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stockholder's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:24 am

Ok - he turned out. The guy still took 3 years. And he was in the top 15. So we knew he had something. And he's No coward. Coward is the key to the packers picks. They need that nasty in them. And the guys who don't have it, fail. Your support here is for Gutey. But he still must be held accountable for others he drafted. Instead of looking at what Gutey took. Look at how many fail at that position. The success rate of a QB in the NFL. ( You want Love. ) And he will take longer then others. So couldn't the pick have been better? The Bang is gone. I'm ready to move on.

-13 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:34 am

Deleted

2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:25 am

He pissed you, didn't he? I really do not know how old he is, but his posts are like 5 yo child write them. Take him like that and sometimes he can be fun!

-2 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:09 pm

He's demanding accountability from Gutey after he builds a roster that wins 13 games 3 years in a row, b/c hey, he didn't hit on every draft pick. That's not fun, but it is certainly funny.

1 points
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NickPerry's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:28 am

I was wrong about Gray just like many of us. I remember thinking he'd require shoulder surgery and Gute had lost his mind with this selection. I wanted Brain Burns IIRC, Stockholder was a huge Jeffery Simmons guy (And he was right) but I wasn't high on Gary. Matter of fact, here's EXACTLY what we thought of the picks...Just for fun

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-select-linebacker-rashan-gary-in-2...

In 2018 I was ALSO WRONG. I was a Marcus Davenport, Derwin James, or Trumaine Edwards guy, ALL who were available to Gute at 14. Gute traded out and then back up and landed Alexander who up to his shoulder injury had been a HR pick IMO, and he got an extra 1st the next year...Hmmm, not too shabby Gute.

I was also a HUGE Josh Jackson guy, as were many of the so called experts who do Mock Drafts. We were ALL wrong on Jackson. Instead of going in the top 20 like many thought, we got him in the 2nd...What a STEAL!! Except he wasn't...Once again, we were WRONG.

Which brings me to Love. Jordan Love was selected in a year when COVID ruled the day and OTA's and mini camps, TC, and any other time to get him ready for the NFL was taken from him. This past year we thought we'd get to see him in the preseason at least, especially while Rodgers held us hostage. Except he was injured in the first preseason game and he didn't get all that play time..

Love has played about 6 quarters of Football. Against KC he played a game with a game plan made FOR Aaron Rodgers. In week 18 he played with guys who may not be in the NFL in 2022. This is just me, But I'm not judging that young man on that. It's not fair to him OR the coaching staff.

Win, lose, or draw, I'm READY for the Jordan Love era. Personally I think he can go 10-7 or so next year, especially if the Packers trade Rodgers and let Davante walk. With the draft picks the Packers have and the picks they get in the trade, they can pick up 2 WR's early in the draft (First 100 picks), PAY Deandre Campbell, hopefully Rasul Douglas, and maybe restructure Amos and Preston Smith. A defense with Stokes, Alexander, Gary, Clark, and everybody else plus the best RB tandem in the NFL is exactly what Love needs. Lets hope were all wrong again. I LOVE it when were all wrong!

17 points
18
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stockholder's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:44 am

I didn't like the Savage pick either. I've wanted DL. Yet nobody has been happy with this DL. And everyone said, " don't give up on KE KE." And Now I'm going to say if we didn't need somebody to replace Adams. I'd still take a DL first

2 points
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PeteK's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:53 am

Later in the first or early second. Hicks is a free agent, still productive at 32, and at the end of his career will not command a lg salary and yrs.

3 points
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Spock's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:59 am

Ken, Nothing I hate worse than a journalist or t.v. analyst using the "we" word for their own opinion. No, I was none of the things you said in your article (repeatedly). I don't watch college games, live in Tucson and don't know who the QB or anyone else is on the UA team. I don't get into the Draft pre-draft stuff because I don't care about who a player is until he is a Packer. THEN I read up on them. I hate articles that attempt to lump everyone into the writers bias. IMHO this is the worst article I've read from you on CHTV. Very disappointed in this article.

Edit: I understand other fans love the draft and that's okay, just not my thing. Ken, "Numbers for Preston Smith were down. The team was asking him to drop back in coverage more often." This assumption has been disproved on this very website. Preston was NOT dropping back even remotely more than the previous year. I wish I could find the article, it may have been from TGR or another.

8 points
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stockholder's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:12 am

There were concerns of Gary's shoulder.

-1 points
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barutanseijin's picture

February 04, 2022 at 01:27 pm

I’m with you on not getting into the draft that much. I have next to no interest in college ball, so the draft is just a bunch of names to me. I do find it funny when the self-appointed experts tout busts like Mandarich.

2 points
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mbpacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:25 am

I am a patient person for the most part. I didn't have much knowledge of Gary in college so I put my faith in Gute & his staff , hoping for the best. The fact that Mike Smith publicly gushed about the pick and would praise his effort and potential just made me feel they had to be seeing something. Remember we draft & develop. He was playing a new position and adjusting the the speed and size of the NFL. Agree, we've had some busts, but glad Gary doesn't appear to be one of them. GPG!

9 points
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NickPerry's picture

February 05, 2022 at 05:19 am

Great point which I had forgot about...Mike Smith, a coach I've respected even before the Packers hired him, loved Gary. As good as Gary has become, Mike Smith deserves some credit for helping him develop.

3 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:29 am

Not me, I was spot on with Gary. I had him as the best edge rusher not named Bosa. I figured around 2021 he would have a true breakout season!

Oh, what happened to my nose, it's twice as long as it was!

9 points
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mbpacker's picture

February 05, 2022 at 02:33 pm

How are you at picking stocks?

0 points
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Blood-McNally's picture

February 05, 2022 at 04:55 pm

If there is a sure thing let us all know.

0 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

February 05, 2022 at 04:57 pm

With the length of my nose at the moment, you don't want any tips from me.

1 points
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HawkPacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 08:36 am

I was wrong on drafting gary as he turned out ok.

however, at the time i was so excited that gb had the 12th pick and would get an immediate starter with that early pick. I was so disappointed with the gary pick as the pick was for an edge rusher and they just spent a boatload of money on that position. also, i follow the big 10 and knew very little about him. the packers had many needs at that time and i did not like the pick.

as i mentioned earlier, he did turn out ok, but when you have an early pick, you should expect early help.

sorry about my bad typing skills but just had tfcc surgery on my left wrist on monday.

3 points
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dobber's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:08 am

Heal up, man!

6 points
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HawkPacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:28 am

3 to 6 months. thanks dobber

3 points
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jurp's picture

February 04, 2022 at 01:40 pm

My wife had major wrist surgery in September and was pain-free after three months. I hope you have at least the same results that she's had. Best of luck to you.

1 points
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HawkPacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 02:25 pm

thanks for the nice thoughts jurp.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

February 05, 2022 at 05:21 am

"sorry about my bad typing skills but just had tfcc surgery on my left wrist on monday."

And yet here you are, commenting on CHTV...Now THAT'S a Packers fan!! Get better soon HawkPacker!

2 points
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HawkPacker's picture

February 05, 2022 at 02:44 pm

thanks NickPerry. Yes, i do love the packers as we all do.

2 points
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Since'61's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:09 am

Sorry Ken, not all of us were wrong. I posted that the Packers were going to bring Gary along slowly which they did. I also posted that Gary would need an extra season or 2 since he came out as a junior similar to Ken Clark. Most importantly I liked Gary for his physical tools and because when I watched him play I observed that he was lightning quick off the snap.

I said that he had the potential to become a force for the Packers defense and that he could be the game wrecker that the Packers defense has needed since Reggie White. I would not yet say that he has become a game wrecker like Reggie White but I think that he is on his way. Bottom line is that Gary has evolved, as of now, into a solid defensive player for the Packers. Time will tell what his future holds. Thanks, Since '61

8 points
9
1
13TimeChamps's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:11 am

'61...if he keeps progressing at the rate he has through his first 3 years, year 4 could be something really special.

5 points
5
0
Since'61's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:23 am

Absolutely! Thanks, Since ‘61

3 points
3
0
mbpacker's picture

February 05, 2022 at 02:38 pm

Why it is critical we find someone for Gary to pair with. Z is gone, who knows what will happen with Preston. If we can't draft or find someone or being P. Smith back, teams will be able to scheme him more.

0 points
0
0
Roadrunner23's picture

February 04, 2022 at 09:31 am

The thing I like about Gary is not only is he blossoming into great player.
But he is also an exceptional human being. Nobody is going to outwork the kid and he loves being a Packer. Go pack go!

14 points
14
0
Swisch's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:26 am

I'm not sure how to access the archives in way that conveniently finds my comments about Rashan Gary, but I invite anyone to look them up from the day after the draft all the way through until today: They would all be positive.
I've also been encouraging of MVS, Allen Lazard, and Jordan Love.
It's not that I know certain players are going to succeed in the NFL, but I like them enough in their preliminary showings and reports to want to give them every opportunity to make a significant impact for the benefit of the Packers.
Also, put me down for Amari Rodgers as a candidate for a nice career with the Packers. With MVS and Lazard, I think we have the basis for a good receiving corps next season, perhaps one of the tops in the NFL.

2 points
4
2
Swisch's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:50 am

P.S. I'll add a prediction that with Jordan Love the Packers win 10 games next season and make the playoffs one way or another.
Also, I venture to say it'll be a lot more fun with the departure of a certain self-important and melodramatic quarterback who has dominated the Packers of late. His going will be like a breath of fresh air.
The post-Rodgers Packers will have some growing pains, but more so will be enjoyable to watch develop. It won't be starting as a rebuild, but will take a season or two to truly gel.
The Packers could actually be contending for a Super Bowl as early as 2023.
A lot depends on whether LaFleur and Gute decisively rid the team of Rodgers and assert themselves as the men in charge.

2 points
4
2
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:14 pm

After looking at which teams made it 1. to the playoffs, 2. deep in the playoffs, it was teams with the best QBs in the game (in general). Unless they had been building their D for years. Sorry, but I for one am not ready to move on from 30 years of Hall of Fame level play at the QB position for a question mark. And I'm certainly not going to assume they'd win 10 games with a new QB. Based on what?

0 points
0
0
Swisch's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:30 pm

Both hall-of-fame quarterbacks, Favre and Rodgers, to their great credit, led the Packers to a win in the Super Bowl.
However, after that it was for both of them a series of the most heartbreaking disappointments in the playoffs -- the listing of which is enough to send most Packers fans into an episode of exasperating sadness bordering on temporary insanity.
What happened to both quarterbacks, it seems, was ego inflation to the verge of becoming a bursting balloon that had the Packers going bust.
They became bigger than their coaches, and threw the weight of their celebrity around recklessly; and in so doing became much smaller as team leaders and even as performers on the field.
For both Favre and Rodgers, the second parts of their careers are football tragedies that are important lessons to be learned for the Packers to actually win another Super Bowl.
Let's start by shipping out Rodgers as soon as possible to rid ourselves of his losing ways of self-absorption.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

February 05, 2022 at 08:41 am

At some point one tends to find life moves on from you. This was the last dance. It was a roster that couldn’t be sustained and everyone knew it. That was the cost of giving Rodgers the best chance of winning another. There is no way we are stronger as a team next year as a result.

When it came to it, Rodgers and LaFleur couldn’t do it. Ultimately Rodgers wasn’t even good enough to cover the 10 point hole despite a great effort from the D. No changing that, no turning back the clock, no reassembling anything but a pale imitation of that roster at great future cost. It’s over. The window has closed and no amount of wishing otherwise changes that.

4 points
4
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 04, 2022 at 07:08 pm

Agree Swish!

While there may be a preferred draft choice for me I don't believe I ever say anything negative. I always know the Packers know much more than us fans.

I too believe with Lazard a RFA that if MVS is resigned with a few additions at WR the Packers will be just fine at WR. This team will look and play very different in 2022. Keep that in mind!

2 points
2
0
NickPerry's picture

February 05, 2022 at 05:26 am

In my post Swisch I posted the link to do just that...Check out your comments on the night Gary was drafted....See above

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

February 05, 2022 at 09:47 am

Thanks much, Nick.
I found my comment at 11:09 p.m., and it was much more positive than even I remember.

0 points
0
0
JohnnyLogan's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:26 am

Gary had 9.5 sacks. T.J. Watt had 22.5. Damn what was TT thinking! If only he’d listened to us. “We aren’t always wrong.

7 points
8
1
jurp's picture

February 04, 2022 at 01:44 pm

Picking King over Watt REALLY pissed me off, especially because a coworker who was born and bred in Rockford IL and a Bears fan for life was a huge Watt family fan. She owned jerseys for the other two brothers and would've been forced by her fandom to buy TJ's Packers jersey. Her wearing a Packers jersey would've been extremely amusing.

6 points
7
1
Swisch's picture

February 04, 2022 at 03:03 pm

Don't listen mostly to the fans, but don't not listen to the fans at all.
We the fans have our limitations, but we also have worthwhile insights and significant things to say.
In general, we the people are of essential importance to the experts as the common people of common sense and common goodness, which are the ingredients of wisdom.

1 points
2
1
mbpacker's picture

February 05, 2022 at 02:40 pm

Maybe we should get paid too!

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

February 05, 2022 at 03:07 pm

Well, we pay them, so they would be paying us out of our own money.
They could lower ticket and concession prices for games, though, and not charge $18 to visit the Packers Hall of Fame.
Also, it would be nice at the least to not be considered racists. Actually, I like to think most of the players don't think that way, since they come from among us and know Americans to be caring to people of all colors.
Besides being the right thing to do, it's good business to show genuine respect and appreciation to us as customers.
It wouldn't harm them to listen to us once in a while, as well, and they might even get some good perspective from outside of their inner circles.

0 points
0
0
skyler's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:28 am

Lawrence Guy should be a reminder. one of MM and TT big mistakes

1 points
2
1
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:18 pm

Lawrence Guy was a big mistake? He was a 7th rounder that couldn't play b/c he was hurt. So he was stashed on the practice squad the next year and nabbed off of that. It's not like he's been a big star in the league. No, I think the bigger mistake (but only in hindsight) was letting Casey Hayward walk in FA after watching Randall and Rollins' rookie years.

1 points
2
1
croatpackfan's picture

February 04, 2022 at 10:50 am

Lass, by time I was involved in watching NFL, I learned quickly to not be lead by many TV experts. I also learned that scouts of NFL franchise are true experts in players assessments. Do they make mistakes - surely they do. But more often they got what they projected to get. Also, many GMs are pushed by their owners to pick player fans of the franchise demands. History show that those kind of picks are more often busts than they follow projected development.

Media job is to make hype, not to be correct. I respect GMs who are strong enough to resist to surf on the media or fans hype. And strong enough to beleive in assessments from his scouts team and himself.

I follow draft to see who is the chosen one, as I have no clue about players assessments, and then, sometimes I'm looking for player's films to see why he is chosen.

Regarding Gary, I was OK, when I saw how quick he is. Regarding Jordan Love it is hard to say how he pan out. Rare are players (Mahomes, Burrow) who are ready to play NFL from day 1. Even Josh Allen needed 2 full season under belt to show he belongs among elite.

Jordan Love might become bust, but his college film shows he has deep ball (strong arm) and has fast ball when he throws. He needs to improve timing (that will bring precision) and his throwing motions. It is possible to improve those traits. That is why I believe he will be at least very good NFLQB.

3 points
3
0
dblbogey's picture

February 04, 2022 at 11:05 am

I liked the Rashan Gary pick. I liked the AJ Dillon pick. I watched Josh Jackson for 3 years at Iowa and knew he was overrated. I hated, and still hate, the Jordan Love pick.

0 points
3
3
PhantomII's picture

February 04, 2022 at 11:18 am

I knew Gary was drafted high and a project no less we were drafting for another position. Gary has crazy size-speed-strength that needed to be brought together with his great worth ethic. I definitely wanted a player NFL ready day 1 as AR is not getting any younger and that is my main objective mentally to surround the team with high quality starters all throughout the team. Gute did a good job spending the coin for P.Smith and Z who hit the ground and played at a high level right out of the gate. It is good to be brought up under savvy vets if possible. I am also impressed how our OLB coaches have gotten much better improvement at setting the edge by all 3. Gary has exceeded expectations faster because of his work ethic and will continue to improve. I see us investing our #1 pick again at OLB if their is one worthy when we pick. I don't think 1 of the Smiths will be here next spring. Hopefully we can re-up Mercillus for another year.

0 points
1
1
Irish_Cheesehead's picture

February 04, 2022 at 12:16 pm

Many fans also bitched when Gute picked AJ Dillon. This is why I still have faith in the Jordan Love pick. We really won’t know what we have in Love until Rodgers is gone whether that’s through a trade or retirement. Gary would not be at the level he is today if he’d only played one preseason and a single regular season game.

9 points
9
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 04, 2022 at 03:13 pm

I was the President of the AJ Dillon Fan Club before the draft... (Ask TGR!)

The list of draft picks I've hated at the time they were made is long and distinguished... (From both ends of the spectrum...)

My Top Ten (12) Most Hated Draft Picks at the Time They Were Made:

1. Tony Mandarich - Total Bust

2. Aaron Rodgers - At the time the pick was made, I was pissed... 2010, I admitted I was wrong...

3. Jordan Love - At the time the pick was made, I was dumbfounded... TBD

4. MIKE %'in NEAL - I went on an epic rant that it was the worst pick since Mandarich at the time the pick was made... (I was right...)

5. Ahmad Carroll - No need to go into how pissed I was... SMH

6. Justin Harrell - Just a plain dumbA$$ pick...

7. Nick Perry & Jerel Worthy Tie for the shit show they were...

8. Datone Jones... SMH

9. Kyhri Thornton and Richard Rodgers - A 5th and a 6th rounder taken in the 3rd round...

10. Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollings... SMH

OK, I can't quit now...

11. KEVIN KING, JOSH JONES, MONTRAVIOUS ADAMS, and VINCE BIEGEL all in a row to send me into a 3 day drunk...

12. Jace Sternberger over Terry McLaurin really pissed me off...

While I think the timing of drafting Love (at the time) was terrible, it's looking smarter all the time.

I too believe it's possible for Love to develop into a viable starting QB for the Packers. We won't know for a few years if he's going to develop enough to be a viable HOF QB. Odds are against it, but I've seen enough to know if he stays healthy, works hard, it's not impossible.

3 points
4
1
Qoojo's picture

February 04, 2022 at 12:31 pm

The use of "we" in this article is very annoying. I laugh at anyone that declares any pick a bust, before the player even has one practice. People might not like a pick or prefer another, it's always 2-4 years before anything is known.

Adams is another great example.

3 points
3
0
Swisch's picture

February 04, 2022 at 01:38 pm

A lot of how a draft pick develops depends on the coaches, and even on the fans.
What young people require is good professional training, firm discipline, and lots of encouragement -- and it's in this last area that fans can really make a difference as far as patience and empathy and positivity.
As an amateur historian of the Packers who is glad for any constructive corrections from other fans, I like to point out that former busts for the team include Bart Starr, Paul Hornung, and Ray Nitschke.
The most striking was Hornung, because he was selected as the first pick overall for the entire NFL after winning the Heisman Trophy as a quarterback for Notre Dame. As I understand it, he was a big joke around Green Bay as a failure without a position as a pro.
Starr had almost no hype as a 17th-round pick, and seemed to be living down to these low expectations as an almost invisible presence with no wins as a starter after his first couple of seasons. I consider him the greatest quarterback of all time.
Nitschke had been a star as a linebacker and fullback at Illinois, but was somewhat of an unstable psycho perhaps mad at the world.
All that changed with the arrival of an unheralded head coach who helped them to hall-of-fame careers and team glory.

3 points
4
1
HawkPacker's picture

February 04, 2022 at 02:31 pm

and the rest, as they say, is history.

3 points
3
0
Swisch's picture

February 04, 2022 at 02:50 pm

. . . and that wonderful history is one of the awesome things about being a fan of the Packers.
Indeed, the more the Packers tap into the essence of their history -- especially the Lombardi Era -- the more likely they will be to bring more titles to Titletown.
What did these diverse personalities of the 1960s do in combination and cooperation to win five championships in seven years, including three in a row, and in so doing become the most legendary team in the history of the NFL, even a significant part of American history?
When history is taught as human stories, it's the most fascinating of subjects, and the most relevant.
Why make the same mistakes of life over and over again when we can learn from history?

1 points
2
1
JohnnyLogan's picture

February 05, 2022 at 10:45 am

Starr is my favorite player of all time. Never quite fit the image of a football player, but the guy I would have wanted as my commanding officer in battle. Cool, precise, the definition of a field general, guiding his troops. Maybe the most humble, unselfish player in history. Not nearly the tools that Rodgers has but he would have hit Lazard on that last play.

1 points
1
0
barutanseijin's picture

February 04, 2022 at 02:53 pm

It’s tempting to classify guys as “busts” or “studs” or whatever, but that is really too simplistic. I think the better questions to ask are:

1. “Can this guy contribute to an NFL team?

2. “If he can, how much? How rare a skill is it?”

3. “Is the price worth it?”.

The answers to those questions change in the course of a guy’s career.

You can look at coaches or GMs that way, too. MM for instance had his merits. He shepherded a team to a Lombardi, but he had his flaws. Same with TT: he obviously was capable of putting together a winning roster. He wasn’t perfect and the calculus began to change sometime around the time of the Debacle in Seattle.

4 points
4
0
PatrickGB's picture

February 04, 2022 at 04:17 pm

I was neutral on the Gary pick. I thought that he might be a tweener DE/OLB. Strong but raw guy with a nagging injury. I hated passing up on Watt and tried to buy into the twofer argument. It’s didn’t work. Kiki was another one I thought was drafted out of position. But at least he wasn’t a first rounder.

2 points
2
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 04, 2022 at 06:38 pm

What a fantastic article and lead into Jordan Love!

A+

2 points
3
1