What Comes Next For The Packers Youth Movement?
The Packers are clearly in the midst of a youth movement, and it goes much deeper than the quarterback position. Are they done yet?
By BruceIrons
The Packers traded away Aaron Rodgers, who turns 40 this year. He's being replaced with 24 year-old Jordan Love.
Rodgers took Randall Cobb (who turns 33 this year) with him, just a year after they traded away 30 year-old Davante Adams. Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs, who top the current wide receiver depth chart, are both just 23.
Marcedes Lewis, who is about to turn 39, reportedly won't be re-signed by the team. The Packers drafted Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kaft to play tight end this year - both of them are just 22 years old.
Za'darius Smith, Billy Turner, and Adrian Amos - all players over the age of 30 - have been released or were not re-signed by the Packers over the last couple of years. It's no coincidence that the Packers drafted players at their former positions in the same timeframe.
Even Mason Crosby, who turns 39 later this year, has been replaced with rookie Anders Carlson.
The Packers have clearly been moving towards younger players. With 4 months remaining until the regular season begins, the question is: are they done?
Could they make more moves to get even younger before the season starts?
Let's look deeper.
Pat O'Donnell is the oldest player on the team, but has a manageable cap number of just under $2.4M this year. The Packers could save $1.25M in cap space by cutting or trading him, but they would need to pay a replacement, cutting into what would already be minimal savings. The fact that he played well last year and the Packers don't have another punter on the roster make it seem like a safe bet he'll be retained.
David Bakhtiari is the next oldest player on the team. Coming off a season where he struggled to stay on the field with lingering complications from a 2020 injury, it's fair to question his longevity. In 2024, the final year of his deal, he is scheduled to have a cap hit of over $40M (the result of multiple contract restructures to keep trying to win another Super Bowl with Rodgers). For reference, no player in NFL history has ever had a $40M cap hit. Not even Patrick Mahomes, the most expensive player in the NFL.
With a youth movement underway, the Packers may be tempted to trade him after June 1st, saving $2.2M this year and greatly reducing his financial burden on the team in 2024. Any team acquiring him would get a bargain salary for an All Pro left tackle (since the Packers would be on the hook for a good portion of his remaining cap hits), but have to take his age and health status into account. He would make a lot of sense for a contending team who loses a tackle in training camp, but could fit on any win-now team in need of a left tackle upgrade.
Either way, it's highly unlikely he sticks with the team beyond 2023, given his cap hit and the sheer volume of tackles the Packers have been developing, seemingly in preparation of his imminent departure.
After O'Donnell and Bakhtiari, the only other 30 year-old on the team is Preston Smith.
Smith has a very low cap number this year at $6.4M and would actually cost the team $11.7M if they were to move on this year (since he recently signed a 4 year extension). Even with Lukas Van Ness, the Packers will need SMith on the field this year as Rashan Gary returns from his ACL injury.
Van Ness is probably his long-term replacement, though, as Smith's cap number jumps by over $10M more next season. He, like Bakhtiari, is probably also playing his final year with the team.
De'Vondre Campbell will turn 30 later this year and is in a similar contract situation as Preston Smith. His $5.5M cap hit is very manageable this year, but jumps to $14.4M next year, when he turns 31. It's hard to imagine the Packers paying that much to a 31 year-old inside linebacker when they are turning the page to a new era and took an inside lineback in the 1st round last year.
Aaron Jones took a $5M pay cut to come back for another year, and the Packers had to add 3 void years to get his cap number down to $8.2M this season. He turns 30 next year, and his cap number jumps to over $17M. He in also a candidate to be playing his farewell season.
So it looks like, barring what would only be a mildly-surprising post-June 1st trade of David Bakhtiari, the Packers probably aren't going to be making many more age-related moves this offseason.
However, the Packers have made 24 draft picks in the last two years and shed most of their 30 year-olds. The expectation is that a lot of those guys will develop to take over for some aging players next season. David Bakhtiari, Preston Smith, De'Vondre Campbell, and Aaron Jones could all be gone next offseason as this team truly embraces a new era with a younger group of core players.
The odds that they add any veteran talent this offseason are also slim.
With young players ready to develop, and a lot of cap pressure, it doesn't make sense for the team to damage future budgets by bringing more veterans to a team that is the odds-on favorite to finish last in the division.
We've seen the team part ways with a lot of old players who were core members of the roster for years.
For this offseason, we're probably at a brief respite.
But next year, expect to see more familiar faces that have been core members of this team move on.
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Bruce Irons has played, coached, and studied football for decades. Best-selling author of books such as A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Draft, A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Salary Cap, and A Fan's Guide To NFL Free Agency Hits And Misses, Bruce contributes to CheeseHeadTV and PackersForTheWin.com.
Follow Bruce Irons on Twitter at @BruceIronsNFL.
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Comments (93)
stockholder
May 19, 2023 at 06:50 am
What are we waiting For.
It's Ok to be cheap.
Ted Thompson Cheap.
Bahk should be moved.
IMO- We have guys that can play LT.
coolhand
May 19, 2023 at 09:02 am
Well, since Bakh's cap hit this year is not too high, and even if we move him we have to pay him anyway, they might as well keep him and play him until his legs fall off. Same with the other veteran players.
jannesbjornson
May 19, 2023 at 09:38 am
Ted didn't move Chad Clifton when he came onboard. The 49rs hang onto Trent Williams. Don't pretend the other guys in the room can play the position without getting help. Why move an ALL PRO for a couple trinkets and beads? If he stays in form, extend him and bag another OT with a #one in 2024.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:57 am
Hes being sarcastically whiny. He doesnt actually want Bakh traded. But he kinda hope Gute does trade him just so he can hate him more.
stockholder
May 19, 2023 at 11:58 am
What ever happened to the trade a guy
a year early then late?
Take the band-Aid off.
Most here can't make up their minds.
And you do know what Baloney is made of.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 01:12 pm
Do you even know what my name refers to? It has nothing to do with the nasty food. Its a reference to Vic Ketchman. He used to love to talk about how right before the opening kick of the first game of every season, he liked to say "The baloney stops here, only I didnt say baloney." Its a tribute to Vic as much as its a tongue in cheek joke. Btw, the food is spelled bologna, smart guy.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:56 am
Yeah man, who wants to win a super bowl and always have cap the flexibility to add the rare free agent whos actually worth it like a Charles Woodson or Julius Peppers? Screw that noise. Lets trade back for Rodgers and Adams and sign 8 Jarius Byrd's. Embrace your inner Steinbrenner. Sigh.
NickPerry
May 19, 2023 at 06:54 am
"With young players ready to develop, and a lot of cap pressure, it doesn't make sense for the team to damage future budgets by bringing more veterans to a team that is the odds-on favorite to finish last in the division."
I get it, I'm a huge ass Homer and can talk myself into just about anything POSITIVE when it comes to the Green Bay Packers, but I just DON'T see a last place finish in the NFC North with the current roster. I mean with that schedule and an even very average year by Jordan Love, I find "Last Place" an unlikely place for them to finish. Not with the Vikings and Bears in the division. The Vikings have lost a lot of talent (or will be) and were totally overrated last year.
The Packers lost a lot of veterans and one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game, but Rodgers wasn't great last season, not even close. IMO Lazard's blocking, Lewis's leadership, and I suppose you could add in Crosby as well since we have no idea what Carlson is going look like MIGHT have the biggest impact, especially Lazard's blocking in the run game. But you HAD to do this sooner or later and I get why they did it now.
The "Youth Movement" had to happen. Some of us who have been around a few minutes have seen this before. The rebuild that started with Wolf and Holmgren was pretty quick as was the rebuild that started in 2005 with Ted. This rebuild really started last season with 11 draft picks making the roster/practice squad. Don't be surprised if all 13 players and an UDFA or two make it this year.
If the Packers are 1-4 or 2-3 entering the bye then I could totally see Bakhtiari or Smith getting traded. BUT, if the Packers are 4-1 or 5-0 then what? Man, it's going to be a fun year!
ReaganRulz
May 19, 2023 at 08:21 am
I was thinking the same thing when reading the original article. Yes, it’s way to early to predict anything, but the roster still has a lot of talent excluding the Yout’s. Actually, it’s kinda nice to be the Underdogs!! Super excited to see how everything shakes out!!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:58 am
You may be a homer, but you're our homer.
NickPerry
May 19, 2023 at 03:58 pm
Haha...Well thank you Baloney!
fthisJack
May 20, 2023 at 08:38 am
That's bologna to you...lol.
HarryHodag
May 19, 2023 at 06:54 am
M. Becton is on the hot seat at left tackle for the Jets. An oddity might find David B. heading to New York and Becton to Green Bay? Rodgers would like David B. and Becton, though often injured, could start in Green Bay.
I think the youth movement is an accurate way to describe the situation. A phase out of the Rodgers era to the Love era. It was fairly easy to see the costly vets would be moving on if you looked at the websites like Sportrac.
packerbackerjim
May 19, 2023 at 08:31 am
Bakhtiari doesn’t practice and isn’t a great candidate to play at least half the games on artificial turf. I would think if he’s going to be moved it will be the period just before the regular season and the trade deadline. The rate of attrition could be a strong factor.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 09:00 am
The ONLY hang up I see to a trade out straight up, Bak for Becton, is taking on the last year of Becton's rookie deal. Especially when you consider we have essentially pre-paid Bak for 2023.
Bak's 2023 salary is a ridiculous $1M. I believe we will get a future R1+ for him, given these circumstances.
Becton simply provides cheap insurance for the Jets. If he were to make it to GB I'd be surprised, but, that could happen, as the Jets would have a $0 dead cap charge after June 1st...
In 14 days we will know way more.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:59 am
Yeah no thanks on Becton. Too big, unathletic, and rarely healthy.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 10:16 am
I don't want him and don't think he'll be traded to us. His almost $6M salary is a non-starter. We are tight up on it as things stand today.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 10:40 am
If he was really good, they could make the salary work. But i dont think hes better than Tom or Yosh so theres no point really. Unless they tried to make him a guard....
DragonSilk
May 19, 2023 at 07:12 am
A fully recovered Bakh is an All=Pro level LT. He wouldn't be the first player to take an extra year to fully recover from an ACL. Our young receivers can be among the best groups in the league, especially if the Oline gives Jordan an extra second or two to find them. David may not make it through the year but, it he does the upside is just too high not to take that chance.
mrtundra
May 19, 2023 at 07:29 am
I'm thinking that if the GBP are high on David, this year, they will not use him very much in camp and in the preseason games. We know he can play. It would be interesting to see if they trade him, by June 1st. The clock is ticking.
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 08:00 am
They'll manage his practice snaps throughout the season, too. Regular veteran rest during the week is a normal thing these days and if he's not having problems on game day, these shouldn't concern us.
Cheesey51
May 19, 2023 at 07:57 pm
We all want Jordan love to lead this franchise and having two all pros on love’s Blind side make a lot of sense for QB1 first year especially with rye all out blitzes being schemed by DC
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 07:17 am
It's never about who you lost, it's always about who you have. IMO, this is a better group than last year at this time.
Bakhtiari should be traded AFTER the season. We only have six legitimate starters on the Oline, and Bakhtiari is worth more to us this year than any draft pick NEXT year.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 07:57 am
I like your sentiment, and I do see a scenario where we can trade him next year, or, maybe never trade him and kick that $40M can down the road.
Personally, I think we may over value him.
The Jets/Aaron Rodgers will want Bak.
Getting out from under what actually is a $60M nut (since we essentially pre-paid his 2023 services) has its appeal, and value. How much can we get from the Jets in return?
I believe our paying DBak up front for 2023 will add at least another R1 to whatever deal the Packers & Jets have discussed.
Why did AR choose the same Friday DBak signed his utterly whacky extension to declare he wanted to be a NYJ?
It appears to me that trade was cemented long ago.
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 08:42 am
I don't recall whether the Packers didn't try to add void years on Bakh's contract or if they did and he refused (I seem to remember a report stating it being the latter). It certainly sounds like there's no down the road on Bakh, though.
"It appears to me that trade was cemented long ago."
In this age of insiders, podcasts, and online talk, those kinds of things would be very hard to keep secret over this amount of time. Why would there be any point in keeping it quiet if it's been essentially consummated?
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 09:05 am
I don't know, dobber. This has been a long, drawn out discussion that I'm tired of, but, I'm still left wondering:
Why there were no VOID years added?
Why is Year 1 so insanely trade friendly if they're not planning to trade him?
Why did AR decide the very day Bak signed his deal that he wanted to play for the Jets?
Was the "65% of the plays this season" stipulation included as a condition to the Jets conditional 2024 R1-2 to compel the Packers to follow through with trading Bak to NYJ post June 1?
I'm just listening to the Violent Femmes >>> Add It Up.
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 09:18 am
"Why did AR decide the very day Bak signed his deal that he wanted to play for the Jets?"
All of that was right up against the start of the new league year, when bonuses vest and contracts toll. All I'll say is that the easiest way to cut Bakhtiari's 2023 cap hit given a lack of willingness to add void years is to slash his cash value. Does that also make him more attractive in trade? Yes. Sometimes a tree is just a tree, though, and Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is often the best.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 09:23 am
Yeah. That simplest explanation, to me, is David Bakhtiari following Aaron Rodgers to the Jets.
No brainer.
So much so, I believe the trade would surprise no one.
It's seriously been one convoluted, arms flailing response after another since I brought the possibility this might happen up BEFORE Bak's extension...
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 10:13 am
'''' Sometimes a tree is just a tree.... '''''
I like that better than the cigar.....
Well over a year ago, I remember reading an opinion that the Packers are best served if Bakhtiari stays healthy and plays well here for the next couple years.
So, I checked. His contract this year, including signing bonuses and restructured money, gives him $19 million this year. But his salary, and roster bonus, is only $1.5 million. Trading him would do nothing to the $19 million, and it wouldn't change the $19 million in 2024, either. But in 2024, he not only gets that $19 million, but his salary + roster bonus is going to be about $20 million.
Bottom line: Trading him this year makes very little sense from an on-the-field perspective. It doesn't make us better this year, and it doesn't really help us financially very much either.
Trading him after the season generates $20 million dead cap, almost all of it from the signing bonus and restructured money. The team that acquired him would be on the hook for the salary and roster bonus.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
All of this depends, of course, on Bakhtiari himself, whether he can stay healthy and play well. IF he can, it is not unheard of for 35 year olds to play well at OT. He'll turn 32 this season and if he never plays another snap he's still going to cost us almost $40 million over the next two years.
IMO, the Packers are best served by Bakhtiari staying healthy and playing well
this season. If some team would be willing to save us $20 million and a draft choice, why not?
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 11:30 am
“Bottom line: Trading him this year makes very little sense from an on-the-field perspective. It doesn't make us better this year, and it doesn't really help us financially very much either.”
As to your first sentence, excuse my French, but, no shit.
The entire point is his 2023 is pre-paid*, in essence, which means any team looking to trade for him will have to pay a premium, giving the Packers better than Top of Market value for him.
**** that all speaks specifically to the Jets situation. No cap to work with, needing to protect their investment’s blindside with his top choice. Knows the system. Blah blah blah.
What is that worth?
Your 2nd sentence in that quote? How do you figure?
Trading him after June 1st saves the Packers around $4-6M in 2023, and $40M in 2024.
That is a financial help if the Packers goal is to simply reset the clock at LT with a planned top pick in 2024. Add to that, the Packers are still very tight against the cap.
Btw, the figure to keep Bak for the next two years is >$60M. Is it not? Just because we paid him almost $20M cash only 9 weeks ago.
Leatherhead, you’re a bright guy. Can you explain why the Packers pre-paid David Bakhtiari nearly $20M cash?
Does it make him highly tradable?
In what way was that of benefit to the Packers?
Given the current scenario, which team makes the most sense as a trade partner?
Hey, if we get to keep Bakhtiari another year, great. I just think a lot of this stuff doesn’t pass the smell test. That’s all.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 12:48 pm
I don't think some of those things are correct. I don't think we save $40 million by trading him. I think we pay him $20 million this year, regardless, and $20 million next year, regardless. Our only choices are whether we want to pay another $2 million in salary and bonuses this year, and another $20 next year. I'm fine with the $2 million, but not so much the $20 for next year.
Trading Bakh this year weakens our offensive line. That's indisputable. Leotis is right....with Bakh and Jenkins on the left side, that's a real good left side of the line.
Can I explain why they prepaid him? No, I cannot.
Does it make him more tradeable? Yes.
It what way was that a benefit to the Packers? I don't know.
And the Jets make a ton of sense. But not this year. Next year.
"""Btw, the figure to keep Bak for the next two years is >$60M. Is it not? Just because we paid him almost $20M cash only 9 weeks ago. """
The figure to keep him for the next two years is over $60M. The figure if we trade him is about $40M, with the difference being his salary and roster bonus in 2024. He's pretty cheap this year.
And yes, we can draft an LT this year. Or maybe the Packers think Jenkins or Tom or Nijman or Walker or Jones can be our starter in another year.
You feel the trade to the Jets fits. I think the Packers are better off with Bakhtiari this year than a draft choice next year. If we can give Love time and open holes for Jones and Dillon, we've got a real good shot at the division title. Bakhtiari is a big part of that.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 01:50 pm
Thanks, Leatherhead. I appreciate your answers. To me, I’d love to keep Bakhtiari if he wanted to stay.
I’m just seeing a lotta stuff that makes me go “huh?”
Saw Nagler’s interview with Bak, and we’ll know soon enough. I do wonder if he’d rather stay here? Maybe he sees some lightning in the bottle too?
—
If we trade Bak after June 1st our dead cap charges drop from $38.166M to $16.829M.
Subtract the $16.829 from his 2023 cap charge of $21.336M and the Packers realize a net gain of $4.507M on our cap, and the Packers would be off the hook for any and all monies for 2024.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 02:30 pm
He has said some stuff that makes me wonder if he feels like being part of this or not. I don't know. I do know he's the best LT on our team and it only costs us a little bit to keep him this year.
Next year, that $20 million in salary and roster bonus, that's a lot harder for me to go with.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 02:40 pm
Just so we’re clear, “next year” you’re talking $20.2M in base salary PLUS $19.08 in pro rated roster bonus. That’s a big nut, as Bruce Irons mentioned in his article.
Bakhtiari’s cap number for 2024 is $40,583,017.
His base salary is $20,200,000.
His pro rated bonus is $19,083,017.
His per game roster bonus is $600,000
—-
Bakhtiari’s cap number for 2023 is $21,336,249
His base salary is $1,165,000.
His pro rated signing bonus is $19,087,014 (Paid).
His per game roster bonus is $600,000
His dead cap money charge if traded is $16,829,782 (after June 1st)
*I got these numbers from OTC.
Maybe the Packers figure out a way to keep him throughout his career. Maybe they get an offer they can’t refuse.
Would you take two more Jets R1s for him, 2025 & 2026? That is what I have been talking about for months. His salary is essentially paid, which in my eyes is worth at least an R1 alone. Then you add Bakhtiari the player…??? Another R1 sounds more like it.
We’ll see.
Leatherhead
May 20, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Yeah, we agree on all that. I mean "this year" and "next year" as 2023 and 2024, and the numbers are the same ones I'm seeing.
I know the Jets are stupid, but a first round pick for Bakhtiari at this point in his career would be unlikely, IMO, given his injury history and age. Two first round picks still don't improve us as much in 2023 as Bakhtiari does.
If I were the GM of the Packers, another first round pick two years from now wouldn't move the dial for me. I'd have to listen to two first round picks, but I'd probably stick with the original plan, which is to squeeze another year out of him while Jones and Walker and Rhyan develop and then trade him for a Day 2 pick next year. He'd still cost us nearly $20 million on the books, but at least it'd be offset by a premium pick.
For the Packers to trade away their starting left tackle before the season, they'd have to be damn confident in his replacement. l'm already unhappy with our offensive line depth, so I'd be unlikely to trade him, even for a goldmine.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 02:41 pm
Thanks for sharing that. I’ve been like, “am I out of my mind here? He’s not sounding all-in with the Packers.”
I crunched #s above as I best understand this stuff currently.
TGR and others here have more acumen with cap stuff. I do believe what I just shared is correct, or close to.
mnbadger
May 21, 2023 at 10:03 am
thanks GG for your final 2 paragraphs.
If accurate, it helps me understand the benefits of post June 1st trade, to any team.
I've read many comments and struggle sorting through the facts vs the emotions relating to a DBakh trade.
I'm still a fan of 1 year too early vs too late.
If he would get re-injured, we're screwed.
GPG!
T7Steve
May 19, 2023 at 07:25 am
I would love to see the vet line stay in place as much as possible for Love's first season as a starter. Not only for pass protection, but for our running game. That will help Love more that any receiver (I don't care how good).
DB came off his injury slowly, but to call him often injured isn't true. Last season he missed games after coming back from IR (or whatever they called it), for a bad appendix. Although that sucked at the time, I don't think that should count as injury plagued.
I think his steady leadership will help allot this season for the transition. As long as we have to pay for his cap hit, we may as well get his service.
Rebelgb
May 19, 2023 at 08:59 am
Yeah missing 3 games(?) due to an appendix does not make you an injury liability. Personally I think anyone talking about the Packers trading DB in 2023 is off their rocker.
You have a young QB starting "officially" for the 1st time in the NFL (not counting KC). You have an offense full of young players. There is ZERO, let me repast ZERO chance this professional organization trades its last well respected, highly capable LT who is a mentor and a great leader in a youth filled locker room.
No chance, ZERO. Cant say it enough. We arent the Browns. This team doesnt make those kinds of idiotic decisions.
Bakh isnt going anywhere and thank God for that. In 2024? You bet hes gone.
GregC
May 19, 2023 at 10:07 am
I don't see them trading Bahktiari before the season either, but I wouldn't say there's zero chance. For one thing, we don't know what management is thinking. We are not mind readers. Also, it's not hard to imagine that Bahktiari could be worth more to another team in 2023 than he is to the Packers. Yosh Nijman filled in quite well for Bahktiari last season. It would not be a disaster for the Packers to be without Bahktiari this season, and he will almost certainly be gone next year anyway. So if another team were to make a big offer, I would not be surprised if the Packers took it.
NitschkeFan
May 19, 2023 at 09:33 am
T7Steve, I agree with you almost 100%. I do not think the team is "tanking" and that would be the main reason to trade Bakh. For a young roster full of question marks, why add another big question by trading one of your best O-lineman?
I could only see this if they got some stupidly good offer for a trade, unlikely I think. But obviously everyone has a price and if some team thinks he might be a key to plugging a hole in their "all-in" season, then maybe the Packers get an offer they can't refuse.
BA4Packers
May 19, 2023 at 07:25 am
Bak to the Jets for their 2024 2nd round pick after June 1st.
TKWorldWide
May 19, 2023 at 07:34 am
But isn’t their 2nd already accounted for in the Rodgers trade? I know, it’s very likely to become a 1st, but I don’t think a team can commit to trading the same pick (even conditionally) twice.
OR can the Jets remove the condition of Rodgers playing 65% of the snaps? Just change it to a 1st and Bakhtiari yields an unconditional 2nd?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 10:01 am
Im sure they could just make it their 1st and 2nd outright if they added Bakh too. Dont quote me on that, but I dont see why that couldnt be arranged.
TKWorldWide
May 19, 2023 at 04:10 pm
They could always go with my all-time favorite: “past considerations”!
Rebelgb
May 19, 2023 at 09:00 am
Not going to happen.
stockholder
May 19, 2023 at 12:00 pm
Settle for a third to get out of the contract.
You will get a 3rd comp anyway.
Johnblood27
May 19, 2023 at 07:29 am
Youth will be served.
Staying competitive during the transition is a challenge for sure.
Focus on the players all you want, the key will be the coaching staff.
Can this staff mold young players into NFL ready talents? The clay is there, the coaches NEED to step up.
I have little faith in Steno as an OC. Please move him back to OL - that cannot happen though, so goodbye is all there is left to say.
I have faith in Clements and Love.
I do NOT have faith in Butkus, although I love the GB OL talent.
I have faith in Sirmans.
I do NOT have faith in Dunn to mold our new TE's.
I have faith in Vrabel to work the WR room.
I have no faith in Joe Barry,
I have faith in Montgomery
I have faith in Olividotti
I await Williams, Rebrovich and Downard's performances...
I have faith in my paisan Bisacchia.
It will be an entertaining season for sure, lots and lots to enjoy and no lofty expectations to bring disappointment. All success will be gravy.
CheeseEdWest2
May 19, 2023 at 08:06 am
You nailed it. There is much promise in Gute's drafts, raw talent to be lifted up with good coaching. With a young team, we have a year with vets still around, AND good coaching is essential.
SicSemperTyrannis
May 20, 2023 at 02:07 am
Yup, it's all about development now. That and preparation. 2025 is they're first chance to really be contenders, which would be a rapid rebuild. I just want to see 100% effort out of everybody on every down.
Handsback
May 19, 2023 at 07:42 am
Bak could be a great starter for another few years, but if the difference between him and a younger player is pretty minimum then that trade goes down after the '23 season. He is still one of a handful of LTs in the league that can be put on an island and keep the QB clean and open holes for the RB.
Bruce is absolutely correct that Green Bay is trying to get younger which is why Gutsey used all of his picks instead of trading up. Next year the Packers have three picks in the first two rounds, they will fill some gaps with those picks and continue on rebuilding the team.
Just MHO
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 19, 2023 at 08:16 am
If the Packers can get sufficient trade compensation from the Jets for DB after June 1st DO IT! Let's stockpile those draft picks for rebuilding. Put Zach Tom at LT!
Keep in mind, this summer is the most important time for the trade as Bachtiari can protect AR's blind side and he will not allow someone to injure AR. Us Packer fans want Rodgers to play at least 65% of the snaps. Getting that 1st round pick vs a 2nd round pick is huge. Maybe the Jets trade a combination of a 2024 3rd round pick, and a player like LT Becton with an Edge rusher, a safety, or a back-up QB. I too think we may over value Bachtiari. The Packers have a multitude of young LT candidates and this is the year to make changes and get all the wrinkles out.
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 09:08 am
It could very well be that the Packers reset Bakhtiari's deal because they're not so sure about the ability to fill the RT and LT spot and still have capable depth in 2023.
They bought themselves a year.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 10:26 am
That's exactly my thoughts on that, dobber. We can put a good line on the field in 2023....IF we don't take injuries and have to start guys who aren't nearly as good as the guy they're replacing.
Last season, we spent a Day Two pick on an OL, a Day 3 pick in Tom, and a couple of projects in Walker and Jones. Thank God that Tom stuck, because we got nothing from the other three. We've added Scaife to compete with Newman and Hanson for a roster spot.
Best case scenario is that our 6 starters are pretty much healthy all season and we don't have to play the other guys.
Second best case is that Rhyan, Walker, Jones, Newman and Hanson are all better than they were last year. I don't think Newman was an abomination, and he could possibly be a reliable #7 on the Oline. If even ONE of the other guys has improved, that would give us a decent group of 8, which is what you need for a game.
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 19, 2023 at 03:58 pm
Dobber....maybe but trading DB allows for the following:
1. Packers to get trade compensation to help build team
2. Allows a young OT or two to gain valuable experience. We don't want to start all over at LT in 2024 with an inexperienced player at such an important position.
3. Moving DB this year will determine if we need to draft an OT in round 1 or not.
4. Providing DB to Jets to help protect AR's to help ensure a 1st round pick is significant. Very likely the Packers use one of the two 1st round picks on an OT anyway.
There are several ways to look at this objectively. I like my approach above
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 04:42 pm
TBH, I was one who was a proponent of dealing Bakh prior to his restructure. I still think they'll move him--maybe before the deadline, maybe in March.
Who knows...but I think they've decided that he's important to the development of 10, and that they'd rather not sink-or-swim in 2023 with the rest of the depth chart. So I'll speculate that they're gambling that if they can get him back on the field, playing and practicing on a regular schedule, and he balls out, that they can get much more in return than they could on his old contract last March and with uncertainty regarding his health.
greengold
May 20, 2023 at 07:46 am
Oh, that’s a good angle, dobber.
Another one that blistered into my brain was “What if Bakhtiari really wants to stay? Prefers to stay, rather than follow Rodgers to NYJ?” This whole time I’ve been under the assumption DB would prefer leaving GB to play for NYJ with AR.
Maybe not?
That’s a possibility, and I’m sure if he can stay healthy in a prove it type situation, maybe they can work out an extension that’s far more affordable? A team friendly deal that would allow Bakhtiari to play out his career here?
I would love to see that, especially if AR & the Jets had designs on stealing the best LT in the NFL away from us.
Plus the chance to give the Jets the finger…? Priceless.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 20, 2023 at 08:38 am
I think Belichek really helped the Packers give the Jets the finger by trading out to let the Steelers move up and steal Broderick Jones a pick ahead of the Jets. I did a happy dance when that happened. Will McDonald while a good player was not rated at #15, nor was Edge a position of need for the Jets.
All of which may end up benefiting the Packers. If in camp Becton doesn't impress or stay healthy the Jets might really up the ante trading for DH. This could even happen during the regular season prior to the trade deadline. If a trade occurs I am not sure what the right compensation should be for DB. I would imagine the value escalates higher & higher the further you get into regular season vs training camp.
greengold
May 20, 2023 at 08:59 am
You & me both, man!
What really left me stunned was the Jets stupidity in not tapping OG O’Cyrus Torrence at #15 once OT Broderick Jones went off the board.
Their Guard play sucked last year.
These are not bright people, and, thank god for them.
A part of me still cannot believe we got out from AR & his contract. Both were strangling Packers progress/future.
fthisJack
May 20, 2023 at 09:03 am
My thoughts on not trading DB this year are.....what if he gets injured again? Then you're left holding the bag with no trade compensation and having to pony up a truckload of money.
Swisch
May 19, 2023 at 08:38 am
I like having a few talented veterans with character sprinkled in amidst the young guys, to provide a stability of experience that helps us to be competitive for a spot in the playoffs.
I also like keeping our players with the Packers as long as possible -- because I genuinely like these guys, plus the benefit of continuity for a winning team.
Also, the younger guys are watching how the team takes care of the older guys to see if the Packers are an organization that truly cares about its players.
At the same time, I realize that athletes can't play forever -- and often decline in their capabilities at about age 30, even as they want their salaries to rise.
So, it's a delicate matter to be decided on a player-by-player basis, with I hope a personal touch by our front office in appreciating these guys whether or not they stay with the Packers another season or more.
LeotisHarris
May 19, 2023 at 08:47 am
Remember how the Packers handled Chad Clifton? I think Tauscher said Clifton was like an antique sports car, only driven on Sundays. I look for the Packers to treat Bakh that way for the season; then make a trade in 2024. No need to bust up an all pro left side of the line for minimal cap savings.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 10:30 am
Absolutely, Leotis. That's a good point about Clifton.
Are Bakhtiari and Jenkins a real good left side of the line? Hell yes!!
RCPackerFan
May 19, 2023 at 08:49 am
"But next year, expect to see more familiar faces that have been core members of this team move on."
I would expect that next year that they would part ways with some veterans. Smith seems like a logical choice. Especially with drafting Van Ness. With Gary a year removed from his torn acl. Maybe with Enagbare taking a step.
I could see them moving on from O'Donnell next year as well.
One guy that everyone seems to think is automatically gone next year, is Bakhtiari. I don't feel that is the case. Sure I can see them parting ways. But I don't think its automatic. If he comes back and proves to be healthy, and playing at his normal level, I could see them bringing him back. LT is one of the most important positions on the field. If they feel good about Bakhtiari, i can see them bringing him back.
Rebelgb
May 19, 2023 at 09:05 am
Your the only one ive read who has said it. Bakh could play into 2024 for the Pack.
I mean what if Bakh is healthy all year, plays solid, and Jordon Love blows the league away by playing at a high level? Are the Packers really going to mess with that just a year later? Why would you do anything to mess with the potential that you hit the grand lottery and somehow got 3 good QB's in a row? Shit the next 15 years are gravy when you have a franchise qb.
Bahk could stay for 2024. No way its not possible.
RCPackerFan
May 19, 2023 at 09:28 am
It just seems that everyone already has him automatically gone. Which maybe he will be. I just don't think its as automatic as most seem to think.
greengold
May 19, 2023 at 09:37 am
Absolutely, Rebelgb!!!
No one knows. David Bakhtiari seems like a bright guy. He might realize the grass for winning Lombardi Trophies is greener here in Green Bay.
His cap figure for 2024 is $40M. They could redo that deal just like any other.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:50 am
He may be back next year, but it certainly wont be under a $40 million dollar cap hit. And seeing as its his last year on the deal, there's only 2 ways to lower that cap hit:
1) restructure and create a bunch of void years which only perpetuates the can kicking. Or...
2) Give him a 4th contract which is basically unheard of for a modern day non-qb or non-kicker in GB.
If Bakh can prove he's willing to be a leader and a part of the solution for a post-Rodgers team, as well as stay healthy and maintain his level of play, then maybe he's worth keeping around. But I wouldnt bank on all that happening. He doesn't seem to be too thrilled about the youth movement and that scares me. Do we really want a malcontent protecting Love's blindside? Taking the dead cap hit to remove the negativity may be worth it in and of itself.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 10:34 am
RC, it would cost us $20 million in salary and roster bonuses to keep Bakhtiari on the team in 2024, and that's on top of the $19 million we're paying in signing bonus and restructured money.
We should wait and see how the season plays out before we decide what to do , but as far as this year is concerned, he's the best LT on the team.
RCPackerFan
May 19, 2023 at 11:26 am
All contracts can be redone. If he proves to be the best LT in the league again and remains healthy, I think they will work out a deal with him to stay.
All Pro LT's aren't easy to find. That is why I think they could possibly bring him back next year.
Again, I am not saying he will be back. I just don't think he is automatically gone either.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 01:00 pm
''''''All contracts can be redone'''''
Absolutely. But let's take a look at what we'd be buying. He'll turn 32 this season and 33 next season. According to Spotrac, he'd have the biggest cap hit of any LT in the league in 2024 at $40.4 million.
In 2nd place, Trent Williams. He's a geezer, too, but he'll make $28 million in 2024. In 3rd place, you have a younger guy who just turned 30, Ronnie Stanley.. 4th place goes to Tunsil. He's 29.
And the pattern continues. As a graph, Bakhtiari is the oldest by a couple of years and the most expensive by almost 50%. The only way we would bring him back next year is if we don't think we have anybody nearly as good for a lot less money, or that we can't get a guy in the draft.
I agree with Leotis. Give him the Clifton treatment this year. If a healthy Bakhtiari and a healthy Jenkins line up next to each other, that's a good thing.
cdoemel
May 19, 2023 at 05:46 pm
Replying to Baloney. Negativity? What negativity? Have you ever watched DB interviewed? He’s introspective, and speaks his mind. But I’ve never heard him say anything negative about the so-called “youth movement”. It seems you’re questioning his character. As if he wouldn’t play as hard for whatever reason. 👎
PackAttackJack
May 19, 2023 at 09:36 am
My concern with DB is not the injury or contract issue as much as his attitude, which he exhibited in his post AR trade remarks. I'd hate to see his smart ass attitude poisoning our young OL room.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:42 am
My thoughts exactly. And now Adams is showing his toxicity too. I wonder if it might be best to just move on despite the limited cap savings. If hes not part of the solution then hes part of problem.
Leatherhead
May 19, 2023 at 10:37 am
You know, there's a reason the military shuffles people around, and part of that is to keep informal cultures and relationships in check.
Sign guys to their rookie deal, and then resign them to a second deal or replace them. It should be the rare person on your team that's been there for 10 years.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 01:03 pm
Rodgers, Bakh, and Adams all definitely fit the mold of rare player. But its clear Rodgers' toxic anti-team bs has rubbed off on Bakh and Adams too. Imagine a team drafting you, developing you over years, and paying you $100+ million to play a kids game only to become disgruntled malcontents. The entitlement is astounding to me. These guys dont live in the real world like the rest of us.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 09:39 am
".....odds on favorite to finish dead last in the division"
Oh how sweet it will be to prove a whole lot of "experts" dead f'ing wrong. Week 1 cant come soon enough. The assault on the NFL begins in Chicago.
"We're nobody's underdog."
-Mike McCarthy
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 12:01 pm
"I'm not much for giving inspirational addresses, but I'd just like to point out that every newspaper in the country has picked us to finish last. The local press seems to think that we'd save everyone the time and trouble if we just went out and shot ourselves. Me, I'm for wasting sportswriters' time. So I figured we ought to hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big shitburger to eat!"
---Lou Brown, Major League
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 19, 2023 at 12:59 pm
"Well I guess there's just one thing left to do. Win the whole f****** thing."
-Jake Taylor
PS: thank you for giving me a reason to quote my favorite line from my favorite movie, Dobber.
dobber
May 19, 2023 at 04:34 pm
Winner!
jont
May 19, 2023 at 12:43 pm
I'd be a terrible GM. You guys would be loads better; you understand the cap, know other players, and think ahead. For me, it just sucks to think about really good guys who've contributed so much to the Packers not being around anymore. Crosby, Cobb, Bahk, Rodgers, Lewis, Preston, Devante, Jones... all pulling out within a year or two of each other. I want to look ahead but I can't shake loose of all the memories these guys created.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 19, 2023 at 03:52 pm
Jont,
That's an interesting take!
While I always value and appreciate a loyal & hard working player at a certain point no hesitation in removing them from the team. The whole point and mission is continued improvement not hanging onto memories of expensive and worn out players from yesteryear. After they are gone you can remember their contributions.
stockholder
May 19, 2023 at 05:29 pm
Well this is why the Cowboys have 5 Lombardis, and the packers have 4.
LeotisHarris
May 19, 2023 at 06:45 pm
You need to at least try to see the bigger picture. The Dallas Cowboys have a 5-12 playoff record since 1996.
History, my friend. It didn't start with the Super Bowl, and teams don't play for the Tom Landry trophy.
Tundraboy
May 19, 2023 at 09:59 pm
"History, my friend. It didn't start with the Super Bowl, and teams don't play for the Tom Landry trophy."
Oh I love this. Very nice
croatpackfan
May 19, 2023 at 06:57 pm
"Pat O'Donnell is the oldest player on the team ... The fact that he played well last year and the Packers don't have another punter on the roster make it seem like a safe bet he'll be retained."
And what about P Daniel Whelan, signed on May, 17th?
Bruce, I can understand that you have other things to do in your life, and you are posting nice articles, but some fact checking will be good. You can find that information on Packers.com, so it is not hard to make fast check.
O'Donnell have one trait, because of it I think he is 99% sure as starter. That trait is that he is very reliable ball holder for kicker, what is important. But Whelan has very good stats, so it might be that there will be true competition through camp.
Spawny
May 20, 2023 at 08:59 am
BOO HOO BOO HOO. Where are all the Love is better than Rodgers crowd? Me thinks there is a foul odor hanging over Green Butt.
ARGH UGG ARGH OH MY.
Yes folks Gutekunst has deposited his Epoisse De Bourgogue on your cheese curds. We could handle Limburger butt not Gutey's offal.
Surely with the loss of that geriatric Adams and the emergence of our three young drafted wide out Touri, Watson, Doubs the Pack is a more potent team. The only potent thing about this team is impotence. And yes the Pack swallowed a couple viagra during this years draft letting limp bisquits like Lazard, Cobb, Tonyan and Big Chahuahua go. Hey look on the bright side... We got two, yes two virile potent tight ends in the draft. The next thing you will hear is that Thighzilla is better than A. Jones. Yep folks Thighzilla is the next coming of whats his name on the Tennessee Titans. You don't believe me? Just ask old 4th and goal Lastinky. See what you get for giving back five million dollars Aaron Jones! Gutekunst stole your ass-wipe and left you with a cornhole cob. The hypocrisy just continues to build up in the toilet bowl serviced by Murphy and Gutekunst. What the hell? Who needs Bahktiari? That selfish whanabee Roddog only gave his knee for the Kentucky Derby. We got Shawn of the dead to replace him. Just ask Smurphy and the NFL drug police. Keep pumping iron Shawn until you grow a third eye in your Alzado forehead. What am I saying. We got Love. Who needs Rodgers? Boohoo Boohoo. Come on Packer crowd repeat as I say. Boohoo boohoo.
Muppie and Grundyshorts will go down as the Nero and Caligula of Green Butt. Umm Russ Ball flunked third grade math, SETS AND NUMBERS.
GO PACK GO. That ain't cheese you smell in them curds/turds.
PackAttackJack
May 20, 2023 at 09:47 am
Clean up your act, reject.
PackAttackJack
May 20, 2023 at 09:47 am
Clean up your act, reject.
croatpackfan
May 20, 2023 at 01:11 pm
starrtorodgers, is that you, boy? We missed you so much! 🤦♂️
Leatherhead
May 20, 2023 at 08:10 pm
I guess that'd be me you're talking about. I think Love in 2023 is going to be better than the 2022 Rodgers. That's what I think. I think our offense will score more points. I think we'll win more games.
Much of what you've just said is incomprehensible. I think you're saying our offense will be 'impotent', that Gutekunst treated Aaron Jones poorly, you reference hypocrisy but don't tell me what it is. You also disparage Dillon.
Other than that and some puerile potty jokes, that's about it. I'm going to make this easy to read:
The Packers are going to be a better offensive team in 2023 than they were in 2022. Dillon, if we feed him and push people out of his way, is going to make yards.
PackAttackJack
May 20, 2023 at 05:12 pm
No,just a newbie from Mel-Waukee
greengold
May 20, 2023 at 06:15 pm
Tell me you just said that like Alice Cooper…
That’s how I heard it!