What screwed up thinking.
Rodgers thumb, Ol, and Rookie WRs, were the ingredients for disaster.
Yet unlike the Brady less Patriots.
We came close to the play-offs, until the team self destructed.
We’ve seen it before. Timely Fumbles.
A defense that can’t stop anyone when it counts.
And such momentum switches; that they would call for any changes.
Frustration. I get it. MLF gets it. Rodgers gets it. Everyone gets it.
But every time we factor in the Rodgers move -on movement.
The past speaks louder than words.
What happened when Rodgers was hurt and went out.
Losing! Can’t get away from that.
And who in the NFL didn’t think that if Rodgers goes down,
The team goes down. And so on.
The Packers need to blow off what writers and others think.
If Denver won with an over the hill Payton Manning.
So can the packers.

1000 Thumbs Up Jonathon...This is one the best articles I've read on CHTV in a long time which is saying something since I pretty much love and appreciate EVERYTHING on this site! But I appreciate this because it's short, to the point, and IMO accurate as hell.

Moving on from a future HOF QB is always going to be a scary thing. In 2008 I wasn't thrilled at the idea of Brett Favre not being here anymore, but the Packers made the tough choice because it was the RIGHT choice. Favre was no longer that same QB he had been in GB. He had gotten old and was a diva in his own right. Rodgers may very well go somewhere else and have one his best seasons of his career next year, just like Favre did. But that's okay. IMO Love could have done as well or probably better than Rodgers this year. Rodgers was very average BEFORE the thumb injury and after the bye week. He had very little to do with the Packers winning streak at the end of the year. IT IS TIME...

"Rodgers is hurting the team by not fully buying into a modern scheme. Here’s but one stat: In 2021, the Packers lined Rodgers up under center 502 times. This year it was 326."

This pisses me off to no end. Not only are we stuck with a HC who can't control his team, makes horrible coaching hires and then compounds the issue by keeping them, or can't make an adjustment if his life depended on it. We're also saddled with a QB who won't run the one thing MLF does bring to this team... A great offensive scheme.

You know why Dillon looked like he was running in quicksand and he didn't look nearly as good in 2022? Because of Rodgers refusal to get under center. That's just one example. Remember when Tyler Ervin exploded on the scene? That 2020 offense was FUN. They had one of the best redzone offenses in NFL history in 2020. But in 2021 it wasn't as good and in 2022 it was the WORST in the NLF. Sorry, if I'm paying a QB that much money, he damn well better be better than last in the NFL...At ANYTHING! He's laid an egg the last 3 years AT Lambeau. IT'S TIME!

Last thing lets hope MLF is just giving lip service when the search for a new DC is on. Barry isn't going to change his scheme. It's the scheme he runs. It's the scheme he's ALWAYS run. Why in the hell would you expect different when his entire career has been like this?

UGH!!!!

This is the first year under Rodgers I just don't care. I don't care if he comes back, I don't care if he leaves. I will maintain we have the best chance to win the Super Bowl with Rodgers at QB then anyone else. But if the team is going to keep Joe Barry as the DC I don't see us winning the super bowl either way.

Its easy to place all the blame on the QB. Its easy when we see a WR running open and the QB doesn't throw to him to be the armchair QB and tell him he should have thrown it to the open player. But like yesterday watching Kurt Warner explaining on twitter about the 2nd to last play for GB's offense, anyone that saw that, quickly got a chance to understand that just because we see something, and think something, doesn't mean we truly understand what is going on.
Warner explained how the reads of that play work and how it was supposed to work. it was really a great watch. I recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.

Rodgers had to deal with a lot this year as the QB. First they traded the best WR in the league. They had coaching changes. The OL was a mess for half the year, and had to move players all over to get it going again. The WR's were a mess. All the top WR's on the team missed significant time, minus Lazard. They had maxed out the number of times Winfree could be brought up from the PS before mid season.
Unfortunately WR and OL weren't the only issues on offense. AJ Dillon was not himself for 3/4 of the year. The TE position was essentially a non factor for most of the year.
All 4 TE's put up 76 catches for 676 yards and 4 TD's on the year.
Go back to 2020 Tonyan alone had 52 catches 586 yards and 11 TD's.

There was just too much to overcome on offense regardless of who the QB was. The problem though is that they knew there would be issues on offense this year. They had 3 rookie WR's on offense. They had their best 2 OL coming off torn ACL's. Their top TE also coming off torn ACL. They knew these things. That is why the defense was supposed to carry the team for half the season. The problem is Joe Barry didn't do a good enough job with who he had on defense. They had a stud player on each level and the defense just couldn't get it done. Not all of it is his fault, but some of the things you can put the blame on him. Such as having CB's playing 10 yards off the ball constantly regardless of situations. It cost them the game against the Lions, but how many times this year have we seen 3rd or 4th and less then 5, and our CB's are 10 yards off the ball. Its easy pitch and catch for first downs. Another poor decision is when they had Douglas playing the slot when he is purely a boundary CB. They had all off season to figure out how to stop Jefferson and allowed him to have 9 catches for 184 yards and 2 TD's. That is a poor game plan.

Time for some changes, and it starts with the DC!

I love hockey!

Let's Go Bruins!

Murphy is at the root of all the Green Bay Packers on-field woes. HE NEEDS TO STEP DOWN RIGHT NOW FOR THE GOOD OF THE FRANCHISE.

Murphy was the dolt who sat on his thumb while TT went from competent to a drooling imbecile.

Murphy was the dolt that usurped all the decision making authority for all aspects of the franchise and neutered the GM and Coach as leaders.

Murphy was the idiot that said "we are not idiots" and then proceeded to dole out the most ridiculous contract in NFL history.

Murphy was the moron who hired a young OC to be the Head Football Coach of the Green Bay Packers after ONE 2 hour interview.

Thats only what I KNOW. How many other stoopid things has he done? Hard to tell without walking the halls at 1265.

He has ben an OK steward of the franchises finances and future revenue streams. But... he copycatted the stadium district concept, nothing original there, He inherited a season ticket waiting list that has no end, he inherited an on-field product that has been winning games at an incredible pace with marque superstar QB's who market well. I could have done that. Where is the meat in this Green Bay sandwich? It certainly is not sitting in the team Presidents chair.

He needs to either acknowledge his error in management structure and reinstate the GM as the head of football operations or he needs to just plain resign and go away.

That is the only way he can preserve a positive legacy for his time in GB.

He's no longer as nifty in the pocket or escaping it as he once was.
He's lost the speed he had to make back-to-him defenders respect his running ability.
He doesn't see the field and process what he's seeing as fast as he once did.
His preternatural accuracy throwing into ridiculously tight windows has abandoned him.
His insistence on running his offense and not the team's is counter-productive and undermines LaFleur's hold on the team.
The clock to :00 on every snap, trying to draw the offside, or the 12 men on the field has exceeded its best if used by date.

He was once great, now he's just good. The ballast of his contract will weigh this team down more than buoy it.

Time to let the Love flow.

Jonathan, switch, "losing to the Lions was like walking into a lamp post. Not only does it hurt, but you feel like an idiot." to, losing to the Lions was like getting talked into licking the lamp post in -20 weather when back in school. Not only does it hurt, but you feel like an idiot. That's more how I felt.

All your points are well taken, and I don't need to expound on any comments because they've been addressed for or against by comments above.

All EXCEPT: It doesn't matter who the QB is if they don't fix their other issues (coaching, O and D lines, culture). Before Rodgers hurt his thumb/ribs, they couldn't field an NFL O-line. They haven't practiced all together since. I wouldn't want to turn my back either. I agree, you don't need to pay a QB 50-mil to be a game manager (see the 49ers/others). He's supposed to be what takes you over the top when you get your issues fixed (see Chiefs, Buffalo/others).

The fact is we have a Head Coach who failed to get us over the hump despite two MVP seasons from Rodgers, although the second of those was not on the same level as the first. We have a cap that has been in large part spent forward and a choice of running that into the second half of this decade or losing more talent around the QB, perhaps both. This year we saw widespread evidence of tactical coaching issues and player and coaching evaluation difficulties.

Whether Rodgers is or is not an obstacle for this coaching staff, and to what extent if he is, is really no longer relevant. Even were he to be perfectly compliant from now on, this roster is getting younger and the coaching issues remain. We could not justify extending Rodgers, certainly not on a contract of that scale of cost and giving up that much control. Not because it was Rodgers himself, but because of the overall cap and roster situation.

Rodgers could have a great year physically next year (though I personally think he’s not going to ascend to his peak). Does anyone really think that gets us to the Super Bowl we couldn’t reach in three prior years, two of which he excelled in, with this roster and coaching? If you do, I will be honest and say I think you are just mistaken.

This roster has an intriguing kernel of younger players, but they need time to grow and additions, some of which will need to come from outside with cap we won’t have. The roster looks to be heading for opportunities in ‘24, 25 and beyond. Due to the cap, that depends on more drafts above average and, critically, much better player evaluation, development and incorporation of talent by the coaching staff. The draft will need to beat the odds, the coaching will need to dramatically improve. If they don’t, we will be looking well into the second half of the decade, by which time Rodgers will not be an option.

By then we need a QB to grow with it, not a 41/42 year old. If Love isn’t that then we need to start developing another, but we need to base that on actual play when it matters.. That player may not be the face if the franchise: that could end up being Watson, but the team needs to settle and develop with and grow around that QB.

Really, nothing has changed since this time last year save the disgraceful contract and its consequences, except the increasingly visible flaws in the coaching at all levels on O and D, both tactical and systemic. The reality is we have had a year that has just emphasized that the window had already closed and that before we are ready to reopen it, we need to fix more than just players and we need free cap. Our actions are the complete opposite of that. More of the same at an increasing cost to future cap and roster options. That’s a recipe for no options by the time guys like Watson start to peak.

What do you want, more retreads with less or to commit to trying to capitalize on the Tom/Watson draft? The two are wholly incompatible. That’s why it’s past time for Rodgers and also for LaFleur and Murphy. They were unable to help him over the finish line and are now burdening the future for want of an ability to face up to that. A year of that is enough fools gold. It has to stop: it won’t because Murphy has all the power. The result of that thought as inevitable as it is grim and lasting.

Once again our best hope is Rodgers seeing it, but he did not last year, and shouldn’t have to make such decisions: that should come from the team. Even if he retired, that still leaves us with a coaching staff that has demonstrated that it isn’t elite in many levels and in many facets of coaching. Bissacia aside perhaps, this staff isn’t taking any team to the top. We need to stop making excuses and blaming Rodgers (whether he’s partly culpable or not): thus staff is not elite at any facet of coaching and we’ve seen that demonstrated many times. None of the pieces fit.

Amen.

I'm grateful that I have watched the amazing talent of Rodgers play for the Packers over these many years. But he is his own worse enemy when it comes to schemes and slowly his talent is not able to mask that fact.

And Barry, geez--he might be the anchor that drags MLF down.

Well said Jonathan. It's time to move on.

I have said it many times Mr swollen head Rodger's needs to go. Not being around for the rookie receivers this spring really hurt there progression. To me it shows his real dedication to this team. Getting 50mil a year is a joke for a descending player with an attitude.

I readily admit when we were 4 - 8, playing like dog-shit, I wanted to sit AR12 and see what we had in Jordan Love, which is what the organization should've done, even if they didn't want to. Instead, they won four straight, giving fans hope, only to soil their sheets in a win-&-in scenario, and move back 5 or 6 slots in the draft order for absolutely nothing.

Now, we still don't know what exactly we have in Jordan Love and AR12 still holds all the cards. You think you feel like idiots now? Wait until AR12 rolls into mandatory mini-camp and terrorizes Title Town with his golf cart for at least another season or two.

You can say it's time for AR12 to go all you want, but the fact remains, AR12 isn't going anywhere until he decides. Not you, not me, until he decides. Murphy, Gutey, and Ball saw to that when they extended him last time.

I was all for trading him last off-season. Get as many picks as we could, clear cap space, start the rebuild on our terms, but that didn't happen, and now AR12 holds the team hostage whether he wants to or not. Not only that, but the FO has put the team in an untenable position. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I was encouraged with the two drives Love had against the Eagles, but I don't see how the organization could possibly think that is enough to make an evaluation, yet asking Jordan Love to sit another year, wasting his rookie contract and his career seems like an insane thing to do too.

I don't know what the answers are, but Murphy, Gutey, and Ball have put us in a position that is about as bad as you can conjure up. I don't think they could've %'ed this up any worse if they'd tried. That's not even mentioning the MaLF and Barry coaching disasters.

I won't say the next four months will be fun, because they won't be, but they will be exacerbating, to say the least. Buckle up, it's all downhill from here.

Johnatan, good, short article. I hope you'll find a time to write similar article on Mark Murphy and his silos scheme of operating football operation. After all "they are not idiots"!?

There are a lot of "if's" that could make this team better but the realities of this team and organization are troubling. At some point, someone must look into the mirror and examine the reflection with clarity and honesty.

Coaching: Is our coach going to win the big games? Is our coach assembling a world class staff? Is our coach instilling toughness at any level? Hell, does our coach even run the team?

Aaron Rodgers: Even regular season Rodgers didn't show up this year. Can he make the reads and throws to elevate the team? What offense is he running? Will he get better next season with this roster?

Management: Aside from the draft, what resources does this team have to make itself better? At what point does the CAP shell game prevent us from fielding a competitive team?

I love my Packers but I have seen enough of the denial to realize that a total rebuild is inevitable BUT being avoided.

If we keep Rodgers another year, we will lose Love, and never know how good he could be. We invested a lot in him, and keeping him on the bench for 3 years isn't fair to him. So, let's say we keep Rodgers, trade Love, and who do we have as a backup? Etling? Do we waste a draft pick on another backup? Pick up a free agent no one else wants? Management's thinking on this whole situation has been a disaster, and we will see how it plays out over the next 2 years.

Many years ago my dad died after 3 months in the hospital. For 2.75 months of that time it was very likely he wouldn't make it. Every day the family looked for any hope and latched onto that when all the data was clear his time was up. What I learnt during that time is that it's important to put all data into perspective no matter what I hoped/prayed/wanted to happen. I look at the 2022 season as a perfect example of fans letting their emotions interfere with a logical evaluation of the data. Some look at the 8-9 record and see hope especially with the 4 game win streak at the end. That 4 game streak started off with 2 wins against the worst teams in the NFL followed by a game where the Dolphins basically threw away the game. The Dolphins were driving with ease against the swiss cheese defense and only lost when they had multiple turnovers in a row, with balls thrown right into defenders hands (degree of difficulty low and only required a catch the ball in my gut effort). The Vikings win was a butt kicking that was keyed by a 2 touchdown ST/Defense lead. I look at that win streak as an outlier to a pretty crappy year. There's not a lot of we kicked butt during that 4 game span and the team came back down to earth against the Lions when they faced, neither of the worst 2 teams in the NFL, and they lost the turnover battle.There was nothing sustainable about that win streak as it was fueled by a combination of bad opponents and a huge number of takeaways. This team could very well be a 5-12 team with an aging quarterback and a bad coaching staff with poor offensive and defensive gameplans. I don't see any glimmer of hope that either MLF or Barry get's it. MLF keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Barry sticks with a horrible gameplan until his job is on the line (his defense underwhelmed last year except for the playoff game then crumpled when they needed to stop the niners from getting into field goal range). Really this defense has had 2 excellent games over 2 years and crap most of the rest. Who keeps there job showing up 6% of the time?

Does Rodgers need to go? Yes, but it's a year too late and requires some backbones. We don't need a rebuild. We need cap space and there are plenty of young players to build around. We need a cleaning out of the trash that's been sold as coaching and leadership. That's by far easier than what the Bears need to do with a roster makeover, it just requires leadership. MM is part of the problem so that means the board needs to step up. Unfortunately, if MM picked them it means they are likely just short of him in backbone and leadership. So, completely useless. Rodgers going will only touch on a part of the problem. Don't get me wrong I will get up and do a happy dance if he is gone, but that's only about 1/3rd of the issues that need to be addressed.

While many here will agree that it's time to move on from Rodgers, for good or bad, there's little said on just how the Packers can do it.

His contract primarily has handcuffed the Packers from rebuilding unless they get very lucky in the draft.

Unless there's a very foolish owner out there willing to take on a huge contract/cap hit for an aging QB the Packers have little choice to bring him back unless he retires.

If they do bring him back Jordan Love should demand a trade.

Great article. I think we should all mail it to 1265, although I'm sure Murphy would never see it.

As someone who once walked into a signpost on Monroe Street in Madison, I can confirm that it hurts like heck and that you feel really stupid when you notice the people across the street hysterically laughing at you.

The worst thing is that I was totally sober and it was in broad daylight.

For me, losing to Detroit felt more like predestination so it didn't hurt much (I didn't even watch the first half), but I did feel pretty stupid about the supportive post I'd made the day before the game.

Jets Deja Vu / Brett Favre Part Two

A link to the theringer:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/1/12/23550442/why-new-york-jets-shoul...

Hmmmm?

Tired (so tired) of all the excuses being made regarding Rodgers poor & deteriorating play. He has demonstrated he can't win big games! He has demonstrated he can't win playoff games at home year after year. He does not have a good record for coming back in 4th quarters. His QB rating in 2022 was average at best for NFL QB's yet his salary is highest in league. This is a QB whose talents are obviously in decline and who in 2023 his salary basically equals these four players combined salary (very close):

Jaire Alexander
Aaron Jones
David Bachtiari
Kenny Clark

We already have a young QB who in my opinion is equal to Rodgers already if not better than Rodgers in Jordan Love. The only thing Jordan Love needs is game experience and he cannot get that if LF keeps playing Rodgers. It is that simple!

Trade Rodgers for whoever will take him. While I'd like to get a 1st round pick (or more) for him honestly I'd take whatever you can get at this point. Take the draft pick and get a WR, or TE (ideally both). The front office so screwed up last season when they had a once in a lifetime golden opportunity to improve the team. Take the cap hit and lets move on. The Packers need a new & fresh start in 2023, and they need to do whatever possible not to screw up with Jordan Love. He is our future like it or not!

We're all Green Bay Packers fans and so we all make the same mistake, we overrate our team. Before the season began we convinced ourselves that the defense, made up of seven 1st round picks, was going to be the best in decades. We fooled ourselves. Our DEs were Smith and Gary. Smith is ok, Gary very good. No Joey Bosa or T.J. Watt here, someone who can take over a game, and it's not close. At LB, no superstar here either. DB's?... Jaire is the best player on the D but the other corners were average and the safeties?... one slowing with age and the other afraid to tackle. Throw in the worst DC in the history of football and you've got a really bad defense.

On offense, an O-line made up of two once-great tackles who will likely never be the same. Average guards and center (why oh why would Gute draft Meyers over Creed Humphrey?) a slow #3 receiver in Lazard as your #1, and a bunch of rookies. Watson may turn out all-pro but for now, he's a better version of MVS. At QB, an aging Diva who will never again see the great heights he once attained, coached by a guy in MLF who is the anti-Patton, a cheerleader tasked with leading men, equipped with uninspiring battle plans.

This is not a good team. Should have been blown up as many maintained at the start of the year. If they run it back, as MLF claims to want to do, the disaster will worsen and we'll have many more years like this one.

Oh, to be able to rid ourselves of this QB and coaching staff and do a real makeover. Won't happen, but it should.

This really isn't that complicated. It's called Father Time.

Unitas, Starr, Jergensen
Montana, Elway, Young
Manning, Ben, Brees

Favre had one good year at 40, then fell off the proverbial cliff at 41. Warren Moon had a little bit of success past 40 I believe. But the reality is, of the thousands(?) of QB's who have played in the NFL, only one...Brady...has had any real success past 40, which makes it even more confusing why they signed that contract with Rodgers, which will take him to age 41.

I think even the casual fan could see a physical drop off with Rodgers this past year. A noticeable lack of mobility, accuracy issues, terribly thrown deep balls. All pretty clear indicators that age is catching up to him.

Whether it's via trade or retirement, it's time to thank AR12 for the great career he had in GB and move on. This is a young man's game and it's always been a game of replacement. All the ayahuasca tea he can drink this offseason isn't going to make him any younger.

I'd respectfully and kindly part ways with Aaron Rodgers and Joe Barry.
Wouldn't that bring hope to most of us as Packers fans?
I'd give Matt LaFleur at least one more season to see what he can do without Rodgers, and for continuity.
If Mark Murphy is indeed the Meddler, then I'd try to ease him out, or push him out -- though I'm not sure how realistic it is to do so right away.
***
Even if we're stuck with Rodgers due to a ludicrous contract, I'd make it clear right now that the starter at quarterback next season is Jordan Love.
From what I can tell, Love has shown the talent and the character to be given every chance to lead the Packers into the future.
I'm excited to see what he can do as our quarterback given full support.
***
To help Love, let's try to keep Aaron Jones and perhaps Bakh. Consider Lazard for tight end; I think he already weighs the same as George Kittle.
In general, though, I don't favor making any of our players the highest paid at their position. Make a competitive offer, and then let them leave if they're not happy. We want guys who really want to play for the Packers.
Focus on second contracts to players entering their prime rather than third contracts with players approaching age 30.
Make it clear we have to take care of all of our players, not just a few, for the good of the individuals and the team.
***
Even with the albatross of Rodgers' contract, there is still a lot of talent on the Packers.
We can make the playoffs next year with Love at about 9-8.
In any case, Love is likely the future, and why start with a rookie at quarterback?
I'm hopeful Love is the answer.

There's the potential for some serious turnover on the offensive side of the ball with the team's FAs signing elsewhere and veterans retiring. So where does Rodgers fit into this? He really doesn't. When the Packers have the ball, can you see him trying to adjust to even more new players?

The only sensible course of action is for the Packers to accelerate the rebuilding process and escape the state of limbo we're currently in. Give Love a chance and have a solid backup plan. What's the worst that can happen--we don't make the playoffs, LOL!!??

Guess what...Johnathan isn't the GM or isn't anything close to being listened to by anyone at Lambeau headquarter...maybe Rodger will be traded or hang it up but these articles are just a bunch of dumb speculation...and once again lays all blame on AR...the cult of hate for AR is strong at Cheesehead TV...funny stuff..no one of any importance reads any of this shit I hope you people know that...

Its hard to think that GB is going to get out of this mess in the coming season without some strong leadership and guts to make tough decisions. And I don't think those qualities are present in GBs front office or coaching staff. I also don't believe you can "teach" a HC to make better decisions and become "tougher" after three seasons of making the same mistakes, over and over again. Can you make a DC suddenly change his passive style and become aggressive and receptive to change without being prodded to do so week after week? Can a former MVP QB turn back the clock and become younger and less egotistical? These are characteristics that are now hard wired into their personalities.

I am a huge Packer fan but a realist. With a poor president that has built an organization around the Peter Principle, its highly unlikely that this team will perform better next season. Accordingly, I am keeping my expectations as low as they can possibly be for next season.