Thanks, Al, for introducing a new phrase I'll be adding to my vernacular. "Hate-watching".

I realized I've been doing it for a long time, but I'd never phrased it in such apt terms.

It is almost reflex to blame a player or coach for losses like these. Truth is that we played well for much of this game. My real hurt comes from knowing that this team doesn't have that power run game that can't be stopped in tight or on the final drives. Our O-line isn't built that way, our TEs are not that type and we aren't coached that way. We rely on surgical quarterback play, fancy play calling and WRs who win their 1 on 1s. While this works during the stat padding season it doesn't cut it when teams have stiffened for the playoffs. This version of the Packers hasn't demonstrated that it is good enough and that hurts

Been a fan a long time. Yet still there are things I realize and think, “How did I not realize this until now?”

So here’s my latest: Every player is graded by his position coach for every play in every game right? If that is true, then you could add up the total player grades to get a “cumulative team grade” (or you could average it or whatever, but the point is there would be some kind of numeric score.)

Now take those scores per game and compare them to wins and losses. I’d wager the team grade vs the Bears would be a pretty high grade. I’d think GB had won games with lower team scores than this one. Yes, crucial mistakes.

Fancy way of saying, GB played overall pretty well even though it was a loss. They probably had games they won without playing as well as they did vs Chicago.

IF they get Love (or Willis) back for a playoff game against Chicago, what’s your confidence level? Míne’s still pretty high.
As am I.

Furthermore, how did Doubs do vs Chicago? I’m sure some of us are thinking he had a HORRIBLE game with the misplayed onside kick. Yes, horrible, untimely, catastrophic mistake. But he had caught some passes and maybe ran good routes and maybe blocked well for the running plays (I have no idea, just saying).

But even one crucial mistake can turn a W into an L. Or a single clutch play can turn an L into a W.

It’s all part of the NFL fan experience.

GPG!

Merry Christmas Packer folks. Let’s hope for health, wisdom and good fortune on and off the field.

Since '75
December 20, 2025 at 08:17 am

This is a repeat, but it's applicable....

The Packers have a lot of high priced talent, High draft picks, and free agents.

Micah is out, he wasn't there last season when the Packers made the playoffs

If the Packers win...Fantastic!!
If they don't, they only have themselves to blame.

Your Critical thinking shows me "A end of patience".
Seriously- your after MLFs job.
It’s shifting focus to how those failures were MLF fault.
Ignoring the main mistake, that truly cost them the game.
The missed opportunities had a fumble, Key miscues,
missed assignments, and execution.
Trying to get MLF to give up calling, is ample warning to correct issues.
But it loses sight of his ability.
His special teams have continued to be a problem.
And the dagger in the heart this game.
Taking away MLfs ability won’t change the fact
that this team works in spurts.
We’ve been here before, so it’s just Noise.

You describe a team that is a reflection of its leadership and culture and has been for its duration. One that flatters to deceive but wilts under pressure and sees repeated off field and on field mistakes.

In a parity league, few teams win out by simply being head and shoulders better. A little luck is required, but mental fortitude and disciple are essential and coaches have to elevate not undermine. This is why, though we look like contenders we really haven’t been, regardless of roster, even QB under LaFleur.

If the goal is to make the playoffs, just carry on, more years than not we probably will. If the goal is to get through the playoffs, then the team you describe isn’t one to bet on. Focusing on individual errors and one game in isolation, even a single season, is to miss the wood for the trees. When you keep running headlong into tree trunks that floor you, it’s a fair bet that you are dealing with a wood.

I had a similar experience to Al, being dejected the day after the game, then perking up when I watched the Lions lose. (Although that one got scary at the end.) It reminded me of the big picture, which is that the Packers are almost certainly going to make the playoffs. Too bad they blew a chance to put themselves in position for a division title and home playoff game.

The Packers have lost some games at the end this year, but they've done fine closing out some other games, and they even had a couple of comeback wins, both on the road (Arizona and Pittsburgh). So I still have some hope that they can win in the playoffs.

I didn't like that the Packers and Bears played each other twice within three weeks. It's hard to beat a good team twice in such a short time span. But if they meet in the playoffs, the pendulum will swing back toward the Packers.

Two comments that make me go hmmmmm.....Ben Johnson says they worked on red zone defense all week. Ben Johnson says he enjoyed beating MLF twice a year. I guess this is what he meant.

In the NFL, most games are won and lost in crunch time. Many times it's in the 4th quarter, but also a big chunk of crunch time is the red zone, last 2 minutes of the first half etc. For some reason these Packers tend to tighten up in the big moments. With the exception of the 2 games against the Lions, they just haven't performed like they can.

MLF and his staff need to be in these player's ears about focus and intensity for 60 minutes. That message should be pushed every meeting, every practice, and every game.

"Every game I'm getting more on board with LaFleur bringing in a new OC to call the plays and let LaFleur manage all aspects of the game as a head coach."

The biggest problem with that is he might be worse at that than play calling. He hasn't fixed special teams in his tenure. I didn't watch it again but many posts about how Jacob and Melton didn't block on the onside kick. It seems special teams lack 'seriousness'. And he brought on Barry for DC and took 3 years to correct that. And now he will almost assuredly have to find another DC.

But I might go along with that at this point. I don't think Pilot would fire MLF even if he wanted to - not in his first year as president. Maybe if we miss the playoffs by playing another dud game?

Merry Christmas everyone. May you be happy and healthy Packer fans!

After reflecting on the game now a few days later, I guess I’m simply left with one question:

Why are the Packers so mistake prone? Is it coaching (or lack thereof), is it unintelligent players, is it simply fate? It happens every game, multiple times a game. Penalty after penalty, mistake after mistake. These guys have been doing this game for many years, why can’t they do it well?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Coldworld and Txcheese hit the nail on the head. Football is a physical explosion of effort to literally beat up your opponent. Green Bay has the players that physically can do that better than most teams. What they don't have is players with the mental toughness to handle onside kicks, to keep their focus on assignments in the red zone, and maybe lack the confidence that they can perform in the clutch.
We've seen this is often in MLFs teams. Also in MMs teams late in his coaching career at Green Bay. It's a malaise that infects the whole team. A team that looks mentally tough at this point are the Bears. They aren't more talented, but have that look like we will win no matter the odds. I hate seeing it, but have to point out what I see.
Merry Christmas everyone, and may you find peace and joy this season of our Saviors birth.
Cheers
JMHO

I just shy away from criticizing play calling unless it's obviously bad. Especially, when we see missed opportunities by players. Keep in mind, it's easy after the fact, we are not privy to all info, red zone TDs are not that easy to achieve (Rams, best offense in NFL, has a 65% success rate that's a D grade, Pack 58).
IMO, it all begins and ends with the O line and do not have a good group.

There are a lot of comments on what the Packers should and should not do is in getting a new play caller, etc.

The only thing I want for Christmas this year is for the Packers to win, win and win.

Merry Christmas all you fellow Packer fans.

The Packers have an OC: Adam Stenavich. Who was a terrific OL coach. What he does is somewhat mysterious, because it is apparent that MLF is the play caller. Which begs the question: when the Packers went almost exclusively to running the ball in a couple of games, was that Stenavich pushing the idea? Because after that slump, the team returned to what has worked previously.
The real problem is since his promotion to OC, and Butkus taking over as OL coach, the Packers have had problems with their OL. It seems they decide who is going to play, and keep them on the field long after a player has shown he cannot do the job. Which means there is a revolving door on the OL that lasts into the first few games of the season. The latest example is the move of Jenkins from guard to center, where the team claimed he would be "All World". Instead, he was "What in the world is he doing?" That the team has yet to find any place where Morgan can be effective. Is that a bad pick or bad coaching, including not letting him get comfortable at one position? Although I will give some credit for having Sean Rhyan step in at center and solidify that position.

If MLF can't manage a game now, will he do so much better with a new FT OC calling the plays? Leadership, player and coach accountability, clock management, critical ingame decisions, changing strategies, and special team penalties and disasters are the most likely issues to continue to happen.

A boxer hits the opponent 300 times in a fight, the opponent lands a knockout punch, the boxer beat his opponent but lost the fight. Getting your licks in isn't enough.

The Packers too often suffer the knockout punch while beating the opponent.
You rarely get Championship matches doing so.

Seems to me that Cheesehead commenters are honing their critiques to a pretty fine, well-reasoned point, sending out a beacon of wisdom in the fan arena. My request for a Christmas present would be that, somehow, these observations are "heard" and taken seriously by Mr. Ed. That is, does our new Lead Horse both speak and listen well, with all available means?

I truly hope Hafley gets a HC job next year. And I hope it's right here in Green Bay!

I've grown tired of talking about the Bears. It's quite possible the Packers will have to play them again in a winner-take-all competition. One bad play last Saturday prevented a win and a season sweep. Boo-hoo. Lets move on. I refuse to let my mood be dictated by the results on a football field. It's a long season and an adult simply adapts to the reality.

The next challenge is a wounded, but still very dangerous, Baltimore Ravens team. They have six Pro Bowlers. This is a team with talent and good coaching. The Packers are physically beat up. The Pack doesn't HAVE TO win, but a victory Saturday would get them in the playoffs. It should be another classic in the making.

Should they lose Saturday, just like the last Bears game, it's not the end of the world. All they would need to do is stomp the Vikings into the ground and THAT would be wonderful.

No jet sweeps on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 inside the 5 yard line please.

"I thought it was wild to hear LaFleur say he didn't know if the reason why Jacobs never returned to the game after the fumble was because he was hurt."

This reminds me somewhat of when Clay Matthews took himself out of the 2014 season NFCCG in the last 5 minutes of regulation, because he said he needed a couple minutes.

McCarthy was asked after the game by a reporter about Matthews taking himself out of the end of the game.
McCarthy said he didn't know he did that.

Not solely for that, but after that game is the first time i wanted to see McCarthy leave Green Bay, it took another 4 years until someone else saw the light.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours.