Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Regression Analysis

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

For those that don't know (don't worry, there won't be math), regression analysis is a statistical method used to find trends in data and examine the connection between different events or sets of data. The name itself is useful for the gist of the article, but it turns out to be useful in another way (more on that later). In any case, it seems to me that too many Packers players on the Packers' defense have regressed in their level of play. Let's take a look.

Kenny Clark - Clark may have hit a new low for ineffectiveness in the Eagles game. After a good start to 2022, his last month or two have not been vintage Kenny Clark - a big reason why the Packers' run defense is so bad.

Dean Lowry - OK, so we didn't really think Lowry could get any more useless, but the man has done it. He got moved downfield Sunday night lake a piece of wood stuck in the Colorado River Rapids. And to keep putting him on goal line D is one of the top Joe Barry crimes against Packers humanity.

De'Vondre Campbell - Before getting injured, Campbell was just not playing anywhere near the level of 2022. 

Jaire Alexander - Face it, while still one of the better cornerbacks in the league, Jaire just hasn't been the shutdown guy we all expected. He struggled (rightfully so) to be an impact player in the soft zone scheme used for most of the season. When finally given the opportunity he wanted to match up in man with the other team's top receivers, the results have not been to the level that we (or likely Jaire) expected.

Darnell Savage - Oh, where do we begin? Savage has gotten more things wrong than a first-grader dropped into a PHD-level class. He was finally (FINALLY!!!)  benched from his starting role this week and mercifully, did not get to play after getting injured on his first sniff of action. I know that sounds mean - I would never wish anyone injured, just saying the consequence of the injury is not something I was upset about.

Adrian Amos - This one surprises me the most, I think. While not a star, Amos has always been a dependable and steady presence in the secondary prior to this season. This year, he's rarely active around the ball, and against the Eagles, he looked painfully slow to react to what was happening on the field. The thought occurred to me that maybe he's struggling with an injury, but he hasn't been on the injury report, so that's probably not it.

EDIT: just realized I forgot to add Eric Stokes - It's extra disconcerting for such a young player that showed so much promise thrown into the fire as a rookie to suddenly be getting beat all over the field the next season.  What happened?

Others of Note - Unless you really thought Rasul Douglas could repeat the crazy impact he had on the team when he joined the Packers last year, you can't say Douglas has regressed, He is what he is. Same for Preston Smith - he's the same guy - unspectacular, but a dependable "Steady Eddie" out on the field. Garvin, Barnes, and McDuffie have played to their level, with McDuffie showing some improvement. TJ Slaton is getting more run. and has had some good moments, but with Dean Lowry still getting 30-40 snaps a game, it's hard for Slaton to get the development snaps he needs. Finally, first-year Packers aren't eligible for the regression category.

So getting back to regression analysis, is it probable that all of these players have regressed at the same time for their own different reasons, or is there one factor affecting them all and causing this trend? My totally speculative regression analysis says it. um, could be lackluster coaching.

 

Random Thoughts:

When the opposing team's CENTER is given a game ball, you know you really sucked up front. 

When two guys you picked up for nothing turn out to be your only physical players on defense, that's a huge embarrassment for the other guys.

When Keisean Nixon shows actual kick return and ball security skills on a consistent basis, how dumb do you look for having thrown Amari Rodgers out there week after week?

When you blitz 15 times and get a total of 2 hurries (both from Quay Walker), you may want to re-evaluate your blitz packages. Call me crazy, but you might even want to consider trying a stunt every now and then. Sadly, this is possibly the worst-blitzing Packers team I've ever seen.

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

15 points

Comments (160)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
packerbackerjim's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:23 am

January 9th can’t come fast enough for me.

7 points
7
0
Johnblood27's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:55 am

prepare yourself for a big letdown of you expect this group of FO/Coaching "leaders" to make any obvious and impactful moves immediately after the season ends.

this bunch of ass-draggers will wait around doing their 'due diligence' and coming to the exact same conclusions we here at CHTV have been observing and commenting on all season long just in time to miss the first wave of competent coaching hires and then once relegated to the left-overs they will opt to keep the status quo.

you heard it here first.

this bunch has to GO, starting with Murphy.

I think every shareholder that can make it to Green Bay for the next Shareholder meeting should attend and greet the officers with the loudest chorus of booooo's ever heard in Lambeau Field and keep it up until they realize that they will not be able to hold their self=congratulatory little love-fest and they leave the stage still being driven from the platform by derisive catcalls from the shareholder crowd

8 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:29 am

I don’t know for sure if Murphy is the problem…at the beginning of the year, I thought that the Packers would have a chance to win another SB with Rodgers, too. He may very well be, but we can’t be for sure.

What they do for sure need to change is MLF and Barry. Barry for obvious reasons, and MLF because he doesn’t inspire his players to play hard and physically and he doesn’t have the guts to stand up to anyone, be it Rodgers or Barry.

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:13 am

Murphy hired LaFleur. Murphy changed the structure to one in which the President is in fact the de facto GM with final decision making over contracts and key personnel. I’m doing so he removed the one position most needed in times of strife: the guy at the top who isn’t directly involved and is thus able to step in and apply common sense without being one of the culprits. I deeply disagreed on the logic of bringing back Rodgers ever making sense at the time and now, but even if it had, the contract language ceded control far beyond the defensible.

This is, at the core, a situation of which Murphy is personally the primary architect and for which he therefore is the most to blame.

6 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:24 am

Okay; I didn't know that

1 points
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Packers2020's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:19 am

Blood,

I agree completely with you. This is why I have said nothing will change the next two years because Gute and ML just got extended. Murphy is gone after 2024 which means the FO stays the same until then.

There could be some coaching changes at D-coordinator or CB's coach, etc. but that's it.

It may be a rough 3 or 4 years; especially if Gute and Murphy cannot draft well the next few years. As we know, we will have no cap space to add any significant FA's to impact anything until 2025.

1 points
1
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:00 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if Gutekunst jumped ship at some point - maybe for a VP position on another team. If I were in his position, I'd absolutely hate going to work every day.

1 points
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Tingham's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:46 am

There are a lot of Murphy haters here. As the Packer's de facto owner he is going to take heat and deservedly so. I often see people state we would be so much better if we had a single owner. Indulge me and let me list the other owners. First group is one that either hasn't ever accomplished anything, sometimes over multiple decades, or relatively new and failed repeatedly, and those that have been carpet baggers who leave their home fans in the dust. Something that could have been done easily if we were not owned by the fans.
Michael Bidwill, David Tepper, Virgina McCaskey, Mike Brown, Jerry Jones, Jimmy Haslam, Sheila Ford, Janice Mcnair, Jim Irsay, Shahid Khan, Dean Spanos, Stan Kroenke, Ziggy Wilf, John Mara, Woody Johnson, Amy Strunk. Yes Jerry Jones is on the list because they have sucked for 25 years and the Rams won a Super Bowl but I wouldn't want Kroenke within a thousand miles of my team.
So the remaining owners are either new like the Walton's with the Broncos or people like the Rooneys and Debartolo's who have shown an ability to keep their teams in the hunt over the last several decades. Ditto the Hunt family.
Just trying to point out that Murphy isn't perfect but we could be doing a LOT worse.

-1 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:21 am

The flaw in that argument is that the Packers revival was founded on a source of advantage. Instead of an amateur owner (and there are good ones as well as bad), we had a President who while if a football background was divorced from football decision making. He was thus the only professional “owner” in the league. The President also controlled the board nominations , not the GM, meaning that there was no conflict between interests and football decisions among those tasked with ensuring sound leadership.

Murphy abolished that knowing the Board was his people. That alone should see him excoriated. Sadly he then made decisions that show us all to clearly why that was unforgivable. That’s why we aren’t necessarily better off but should have been.

4 points
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Tingham's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:28 am

First off I'm just suggesting there are a lot of crappy owners in the league that I would never want near the GBP.

I'm scratching my head though on the GM nominating board members. What other NFL team has a GM that has that sort of power outside of Jerry Jones who is the GM.

0 points
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Johnblood27's picture

November 30, 2022 at 03:32 pm

i believe cw's point is that murphy should not have GM duties.

THAT is at the heart of the current dysfunction in the GBP organization from GM/FO to Coaching to players.

muddles responsibilities = muddled accountabilities = dysfunctional organization = losing

2 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 01, 2022 at 01:02 am

The difference is that many of the mistakes made are Murphy's mistakes. He made the decision in question, so to fix it, he first has to admit that he made a mistake. That is tough for some people to do.

That was not the case when Harlan was president. If mistakes were made, they were made by his subordinates, those he is supervising, and thus he need not make admissions in order to correct things.

Harlan's decision involved just hiring the GM. He hired Wolf (home run), Sherman (who got three seasons and then was jettisoned as GM, four as coach), and then TT, who was a triple or home run. So far, Murphy hired Gute, LaFleur, vetoed Rizzi until it was too late, and insisted on keeping Pettine and pretty clearly agreed to AR's contract and to not trading him ("We're not idiots" comment).

Little will change until Murphy is willing to admit a mistake.

0 points
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 03:57 pm

If the team catches wind of any kind of even semi-organized protest they will shut down the in-person shareholders' meeting ASAP and opt for online instead - and then mute anyone who attends online.

Best way to protest in that case is to simply disconnect. What would it say if thousands of shareholders immediately disconnected when they're muted? You'd have to get the media to actually publicize that, though.

1 points
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Oppy's picture

December 01, 2022 at 04:49 am

Did the team shut down the in-person shareholder' meeting(s) during the Favre "the train has left the station" saga? There were angry fans pissing and moaning and holding all sorts of protests that year.. I don't recall the Packers cowering in the dark shadows during that recent slice of history.

I'm not sure there's much basis to support the idea the team will run from public address for fear of unhappy fans congregated in "semi-organized protest".

0 points
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Johnblood27's picture

December 01, 2022 at 09:01 am

so you would give up your first amendment rights because someone might not listen?

as shareholders the fans are absolutely nothing. we do not hold enough shares to matter whatsoever. the shares were arranged so that those who held most of the shares received proportionally the same amount relative to any shares released for sale.

In short, the GBP board of directors owes fan shareholders exactly squat.

but... we knew that going in and still we contributed. that buys us exactly... NOTHING!

with all that said, we still have the ability to let the BOD and Packer FO know how we feel through many channels with the Shareholders meeting being one.

Social media is another.

Writing to the team is another.

Not all forms are equally effective, for an initial blast, I like the idea of getting a large block of shareholders to voice their displeasure at the shareholders meeting. If the GBP cancel the meeting after that the shitstorm on social media they would receive would be devastating and lead to boycotts of purchasing tix and merch.

to be continued...

0 points
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HawkPacker's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:31 am

Yes, I believe it is the coaching imho. Also, as to Rasul Douglas and De'vondre Campbell, who didn't think their signing was fantastic for the Packers? I know I certainly did. The thing is, when a player is just hanging on to his football career, he plays like a man with his hair on fire. Give him a fat contract and voila, 'I have made it' and I can relax a bit and don't necessarily have to play as hard as I now have this contract. I think this last point happens a bunch all over sports. Not sure what you can do about it except 'know' who you are signing, look at his background/history and give an incentive laden contract where possible.

Just my thoughts........I was one of those who expected great things from the defense after last year's defense. I do really believe that the DC needs to be replaced.

11 points
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Savage57's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:21 am

Me. If there's anything I've come to fear, it's the Packers penchant for signing guys who flash for a string of games to rich, long-term deals only to discover they were flashes in the pan and the reasons they were let go or bounced around the bottom of the roster of other teams are legitimate.

And that condition you're describing for guys who get their big deals is what's known as contractitis. Symptoms such as steep drop offs in production, lackadaisical effort, and frequent injury manifest early, and usually continue for the duration of the contract if untreated by releasing player and eating a pile of dead money.

See Perry, Nick.

5 points
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The_Justicar's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:43 am

Campbell’s and Douglas’s contracts are actually about league average for their positions, they are not near the highest paid players at their positions. The contracts they signed were probably reasonable for both the packers and the players.

7 points
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Savage57's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:52 am

Based upon their play post-signing said contracts, the Packers appear to have been once again taken to the woodshed, rationalization notwithstanding.

Which was pretty much the thesis of my post, not their relevant standing among their peers.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:32 pm

They took themselves to the woodshed with a decade of poor drafting. When you whiff on guys and waste time, you pay later.

3 points
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Savage57's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:53 am

Patience

-1 points
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dobber's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:26 am

To be fair, Campbell and Douglas have mostly not been used the same way the majority of their snaps came in 2021. Campbell played mostly in single ILB alignments (whereas adding Walker moved the Packers to dual ILB sets) and Douglas played mostly on the perimeter (whereas, until Stokes' injury, he's been miscast inside).

6 points
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PeteK's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:25 am

Fair points. However, it could also be as simple as over confidence, which I was also guilty of. The butt whipping on the opening week didn't help, neither did being surprised by two vastly improved NY teams. Being presumptuous is a high precipice to fall from.

4 points
4
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Oppy's picture

December 01, 2022 at 04:54 am

I thought Rasul Douglas played mostly in the slot in 2021, and only in 2022 has been playing primarily on the outside (due to Stokes' injury).

I heard an awful lot of Packers (fan) pundits saying Douglas might be best on the perimeter as opposed to in the slot, but 2022 has seen Douglas mostly out on the edges, and clearly, the impact is not the same as he had in 2021.

0 points
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HawkPacker's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:31 pm

Their contracts were a hell of a lot better than what they were earning before. We don't pay for mediocrity.

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:33 am

Not just the DC - the whole coaching staff. MLF is a good play caller, but he doesn’t inspire his players like, for example, the Titans’ Mike Vrabel does. You always see the Titans play hard and physically, and even the backups play hard and physically (and that is why Tennessee’s backups are so good). That is also one of the reasons why they are so good at run defense. MLF looks lost and confused on the sideline, and it bleeds into the locker room.
In addition, he doesn’t learn from his mistakes (Drayton), can’t hire good coordinators (Barry over Evero), and when others are bad, he doesn’t have the guts to admit it. Recently, he said that if he thought the DC was a problem, he would replace Barry. Right after allowing 500 yards! This guy has to go.

6 points
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:04 pm

MLF may be a nice guy, but he is one LOUSY coach. Shades of Scooter McLean and the 1958 season if we keep him around long enough.

1 points
1
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NickPerry's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:43 am

"So getting back to regression analysis, is it probable that all of these players have regressed at the same time for their own different reasons, or is there one factor affecting them all and causing this trend? My totally speculative regression analysis says it. um, could be lackluster coaching."

I think Al is DEAD ON with analysis. It IS the coaching. This Defense is painful to watch. It's almost as painful as watching Rodgers refuse to run the offense the way it's meant to be, even AFTER proving to themselves against Dallas...Run the fucking ball!!

But this Defense has taken sucking to new lows. I mean common, they've taken Quay Walkers BEST trait, his tackling ability, and due to the Packers coaching, he's suddenly a LIABILITY as a tackler. Look it up, almost any draft guide had Walker as a "Sure Tackler". Walker doesn't miss tackles and when he hits a ballcarrier and wraps them up, they go down.....Hmmm, What a difference a few months with Joe Barry and this staff can do.

I STILL believe this Defense can be a good, even great defense. But until Barry is GONE and so is this entire staff, nothing will change at 1265 Lombardi. Hell, you could add in the best Edge Rusher and Safety in this upcoming draft and it would matter a bit if Barry is still here...BUT, PLEASE draft some more offensive talent. Jordan Love deserves it.

18 points
18
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:37 am

We need to get rid of MLF, too. The reason why the defense is so soft is because of bad coaching and a culture of softness, as well. MLF looks helpless and confused often on the sidelines, and it bleeds into the locker room, and doesn’t have the guts to lead. We need a real Head Coach, and that is why we should fire him in the off-season and hire Dan Quinn, who has guts, inspires his players, and is a VERY good coach.

Additionally: Quinn is known for developing LBs - he is the guy credited with the rise of Micah Parsons, the current DPOY favorite. I’m sure he could help Walker develop into a perennial all-pro as well. The potential is there.

2 points
5
3
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:18 am

All I know Nick is every time I read your posts I feel like I have a severe case of 'Bobble-Head Doll Syndrome (BHDS)!

1 points
1
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NickPerry's picture

November 30, 2022 at 03:27 pm

LOL...That was funny!

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:10 am

Agree Al. The whole group is not put in positions to make each other better. With Clark swallowing double and triple teams, Lowery and Read have only made a few plays worth remembering.

With Campbell out it's hurt Quay's development for this year, but I think it will bode well for the future.

Without the above, it's actually surprising how well the DBs have been holding up. With the insisted weak 4-man rush, even 50-50 with Jaire against the top receivers is a win. No one can be expected to cover for over 4 seconds even playing soft.

6 points
6
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Razer's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:15 am

And that is just the defense! Guess Al got writers cramp and couldn't get around to the other side of the ball.

I agree that coaching has been a huge issue. Maybe the biggest job of a good HC is to assemble a great staff and help them get the best results with the best resources. Matt LaFleur is a playcaller - he is failing on the bigger picture.

In defense of the coaches, the talent available is not where it needs to be. The D-line is a good example. A decade of marginal players and very little depth is standard for the Packers. Every year we talk about improving our run defense and yet very little changes. My sympathy for the coaches ends there because, as Al points out, there is very little toughness on this team and the little that we have came from recent free agents. This points to some serious fixes that the next guys will need to address.

I wish I could be more positive but when I look at the 2022 Packers I see 53 guys running around playing with little cohesion and general confusion. The sum of these parts is far less than it should be.

6 points
6
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BradHTX's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:26 am

“The sum of these parts is far less than it should be.”

You nailed it, Razer — it’s almost like the team is afflicted with “reverse synergy”… a whole LESS than the sum of its parts.

I still think LaFleur has been an overall positive for internal culture: players talked about how stodgy the atmosphere was the final McCarthy years. And I still want to see what the Packers look like when LaFleur’s offense is actually being run. But I’m very skeptical of his ultimate success due to coaching staff hires and inability to adjust in-game.

As for the defense… I guess how good it looked in camp is more an indictment of the offense than anything else.

9 points
10
1
Johnblood27's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:02 am

i was one tough sob when i was beating the snot out of my little brother... just sayin...

4 points
4
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:39 am

MLF is a soft sissy, and it is bleeding into the locker room! He needs to be replaced immediately at the end of the season!

-1 points
3
4
Packers2020's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:31 am

ML and Gute were just extended. They are going nowhere until Murphy is done at the end of 2024.

-3 points
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3
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:55 am

Coaches get bought out all the time. We can speculate over the wisdom of extending them and Ball, but the buy out doesn’t impact the cap and the Packers can afford it without blinking.

3 points
3
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Packers2020's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:28 am

Cold,

I understand what you are saying but we have a Board of Directors, not an owner. The Board of Directors just cares if the coffers are full. They will not make a hasty decision like that when Murphy will be gone in two years anyway.

JMHO.

0 points
0
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:10 pm

To your point..

Executive Committee: "Look! We have a sledding hill now! Shiny!"

Yeah., MM is staying until he retires. And we will suck worse every year until then.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:42 pm

Their pink slips should be enclosed in their Holiday Cards.

0 points
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:10 pm

Nah, fire them by tweet.

1 points
1
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croatpackfan's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:42 am

You gave us good analyse by my opinion. But, there is one sentence that catch me:
"...players talked about how stodgy the atmosphere was the final McCarthy years."

Now, McCarthy was fired. Who produce that stodgy atmosphere? QB who did whatever he could to get Mike McCarthy fired. He is still on team. And he publicly announced that he do not agree with MLF system. He gave us his vision of offense that many of you here connect with old scheme run by Mike McCarthy. Try to sum 1 and 1. It will lead you to obvios result. It is 2, and it always be. That is how started with Mike McCarthy. First publicly announcing that he does not like what Mike McCarthy planned as plays for games, than he started to change plays at the line of scrimmage, than openly started to arguing with his HC/play caller during the games.

There is not much players on the team who pass through that period 2017-2018. Maybe Bakh & Mason. I can not remmember any other player. But, todays players are a little bit different. There is developed social networks and more and more informations can be gathered. They are very well aware how that QB constantly throwing them under the bus. I watched game vs Philly 2 times. And noticed one interesting thing. Josh Myers played terrible while ACR was at center. He played much better when Jordan Love stepped there. Not that he was at all pro level, but still.

I would love to hear your opinion on this view.

-1 points
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:07 pm

"I still want to see what the Packers look like when LaFleur’s offense is actually being run"

The earliest that this can happen is 2025 (AR's contract runs through 2024), and there's no way in hell MLF will be here then.

1 points
1
0
Packers0808's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:21 am

I think Al has drawn the conclusion is that Barry is not a good coach. Ya think? And man he is right! Also I think LaFleur sucks as an evaluator for choosing other coaches and is extremely slow at admitting his mistakes!

13 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:40 am

Not to mention, he also said that If he thought DC was a problem, he would act on it.

Right after allowing 500 yards on defense.

10 points
11
1
NJ-RICK's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:24 am

BREAKING NEWS: The Packers just restructured Dean Lowry's contract. OMG there is another reason to FIRE GUTE..!!! Keeping below average D-Lineman. Clean out the front office...

-3 points
2
5
LeotisHarris's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:23 am

Probably creating Cap space to sign other guys, and not seeking to keep The Human Speed Bump.

9 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:40 am

Why would he do that!

0 points
1
1
Barnacle's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:02 am

Maybe Gute wants to extend some massive contracts to our frequently or currently injured players. That way he adds to next year’s cap hell and discourages good GMs and coaches from applying for GB jobs.

Thinking of next year, I hope AR decides to let Love play a little bit? The coaches can not make that decision. Only AR is allowed to decide Packer issues………duh?

6 points
6
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Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:28 am

That would be Ball. Unless the move is to allow Gute to make an agreed move, that’s not his department, it’s Ball/Murphy.

Perhaps they need money to do a beneficial deal with Jenkins/Nijman/Jones that frees more cap next year? Maybe they want to keep Ford? I can’t see why you’d push dead cap into next year otherwise. Let’s wait and see what transpires.

4 points
4
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:27 am

We should not re-sign or extend anyone who isn't named Gary or Nijman. We need to enter a rebuild and trade away our players with big contracts. Kenny Clark, Preston Smith, Elgton Jenkins (via the franchise tag) even Aaron Rodgers.

-4 points
0
4
jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:13 pm

Love will play only if he can pry the ball from AR's cold, dead fingers.

AR will NEVER be a healthy scratch, and will minimize any injury that he gets, even if it affects his ability to throw accurate passes.

0 points
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Packers2020's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:24 am

The move may mean the team is working on an extension for a player so they can fit another signing bonus onto this year’s salary cap.

That is a smart move.

2 points
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JerseyAl's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:28 am

That doesn't mean he's keeping him. He will still be a free agent in 2023. Just moving money around to create some more cap space right now.

3 points
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HawkPacker's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:32 am

For someone else besides Lowry I would suspect (hope).

2 points
2
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Barnacle's picture

December 01, 2022 at 07:51 am

Gute should not be trusted with more money now. He made a disgruntled QB, an injured DB, a DL, and an injured OL the highest paid at their positions. How has that worked?

Gute is in over his head.

1 points
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Oppy's picture

December 01, 2022 at 04:56 am

Restructuring doesn't necessarily equate to vote of confidence, pay increase, or higher commitment.

Restructures can make the ability to move a guy easier.

0 points
0
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Savage57's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:27 am

The Packers are fielding a confused, lazy, and soulless defense this season, who've come to accept that cleat marks all over the fronts and backs of their jerseys are normal occurrences game in and game out.

Barry has got to go. I understand why MLF is sticking with him through this lost season, to send the message he's not an unstable, reactive nut job, but when the D reeks as bad as this one does, you're also sending the message to the players and other coaches that you're OK with the stink of shit in the locker room and on the field.

6 points
6
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:14 pm

Well, Jim Leonhard is now available...

-2 points
0
2
pacman's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:35 am

Hard to get motivated to play well and risk injury when the season is over. But that's MLF's job, isn't it? And he as ALWAYS been bad at that. So what exactly is he good at?

It might be interesting to see how we play against our arch rivals.

6 points
6
0
Fubared's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:13 pm

I got to believe that some of our guys will make sure to tweak something before the Miami and Viking s beat downs coming. Better to be on the sidelines so no one can point a finger at you and see you are a crap player.

1 points
1
0
stockholder's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:41 am

You forgot to include Gary. These guys gave up. Fire Barry. And you'll get a New Defense. I want a 4 front! A true DL.

2 points
8
6
JerseyAl's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:02 am

I didn't include Gary because I don't think he regressed. He was fine until the losing started. Maybe his effort level fell off, but I don't think he's gotten worse in any way.

5 points
6
1
Johnblood27's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:05 am

um, Al... wouldn't his effort level falling off be a bad thing and be a symptom of actually being , you know, like... worse?

-1 points
3
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Rebecca's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:48 am

Admittedly Gary hadn’t developed new tricks especially in the run defense, but in his defense, he always hustled, was around the ball a lot, and was averaging a sack a game. Oh well, no one but Rashan knows.

6 points
6
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JerseyAl's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:30 am

no, I don't look at it that way. My regression thesis isn't about lack of effort, it's more about diminished skills and mental mistakes.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:51 am

Surely it would be about performance? Effort would be part of that as much as skill or errors, with the point being that the player/players aren’t delivering to the level last year. Personally, I don’t see it as effort primarily outside perhaps of safety. Nor do I see diminished skills. I see confusion, personnel choices and usage and errors primarily. That’s coaching. I see the same in the OL.

I thoroughly disagree with the notion that Gary wasn’t trying. He was. What he wasn’t necessarily doing is playing smart. That’s coaching, either in terms of guidance or he may have been doing what he was asked and simply all out rushing as our primary threat and the failure was the ILBs to play to that. We don’t know. Either way it’s coaching in one way or the other.

5 points
5
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stockholder's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:29 pm

Understandable. But I brought that up, because he was having difficulties before he was hurt. (Edge guard etc.)
Now I have a conclusion about the packers Defense. Do you think ZaDarius Smith poisoned this Defense?
He did want a contract extension? ( There was No longer a rotation with are edge rushers.)

2 points
3
1
BAMABADGER's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:00 pm

The problem is the Packer D was force fed a poisonous Barry.

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:13 am

...I want a 4 front! A true DL...

Given our half-hearted effort with a 3-4 defense, I am not sure that 4 linemen will make a difference. We have two DL on our practice squad, Jack Heflin and Chris Slayton. We have Jonathan Ford inactive for most games. Apparently, none of these guys are better than the cannon fodder that we start every weekend. Unbelievable.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:53 am

On this team, getting a new player extra snaps is a glacial process even if they appear to earn it, on both sides of the ball. That’s a LaFleur characteristic.

3 points
3
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:41 am

You will get that if you hire Dan Quinn as your new HC. MLF needs to be replaced, see my posts above for why

-1 points
5
6
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:29 am

Gary hardly gave up.

4 points
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PeteK's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:48 am

Stock, now we're criticizing a player with 6 sacks and 32 tkls in 9 games. He had one bad game against the run, where he is usually very stout.

3 points
3
0
stockholder's picture

November 30, 2022 at 03:17 pm

Pete- The packers Z. Smith and Whitney Mercilus gave the packers experienced rotation. Campbell played great. The packers all knew they would be back by the play-offs. Was Gary ready to Take all the snaps without fatigue?
Enter Walker and Reed. And this Defense never played the same.

0 points
2
2
jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:17 pm

This isn't Stockholder you're posting to - these posts are cogent, literate and properly punctuated. None of these are characteristics of the chronically ill-informed Stockholder that we know and...

A son? Nephew? Evil twin?

0 points
0
0
HawkPacker's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:43 pm

Test him... See if the Pack should still dump Love for a second rounder?~ha

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:21 am

It has to be lack of coaching and accountability. What is the culture like in each of those position group rooms when guys can consistently get their butts kicked and mail it in effort-wise and still get snaps? How in the hell do you have any credibility with your teammates when you all see that lack of effort on film?

Howie Long said he approached every practice as if someone was going to take his job from him. His entire NFL career, he was afraid of losing his starting job. That's intrinsic. I don't think fear primarily needs to be used to motivate people, but performance expectations need to be set, goals defined, teams created. These guys sure as hell aren't playing for each other, and only a select few seem to be playing with any pride in themselves.

Change the culture. Find successful motivators and quality teachers. I think there's a good amount of talent on both sides of the ball. New and different leaders need to develop that talent.

7 points
7
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:42 am

Yes! 100% I agree with you!

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:53 pm

The Vikings made the right moves.

0 points
0
0
HarryHodag's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:25 am

I think a good analysis would be to dissect last year's team that made the playoffs vs. this year's disaster. Was it all D. Adams? The Packers signed a large number of guys to big contracts based on performance. Most of the same team is around yet both the offense and defense have sputtered.

I think a large part of it is personnel. I think Barry should be replaced, but how could largely the same players go downhill so fast all at once? On offense, what happened to the tight end? Yes Tonyan was hurt, but he's rarely targeted now. Great offensive line play last year has been replaced by busted assignments and simply being overpowered.

Special teams have improved with...drum roll...better people playing the position.

One thing to consider is if the Packers personnel dept. has overrated players. Giving Lowry another chance to under perform is head scratching and yet the latest example. Are the veterans worth the money?

On offense, the loss of Hackett as offensive coordinator, to me, was a huge loss not made up by Stenavich. He was an excellent offensive line coach. Another example is Jenkins who is nowhere near his previous years level. The injury is part of it, but he also looks lost at times. Nijman hasn't been nearly as good. Runyan and Meyers have simply been run over by more physical teams. Rodgers has been off this year so blaming it all on the rookie receivers is wrong. The line did produce some offense via the run but they never were dominant with the exception possibly of the Cowboys game. Sammy Watkins: how much are they paying him? Randall Cobb is a great guy and good receiver at times but is on the sidelines with injuries too often.

My bottom line take is the personnel dept. overrated some of the players, the first might be Rodgers and certainly Sammy Watkins. If you look at the draft Quay Walker will develop. The team needs his athleticism, but Wyatt appears to be a washout. The jury is still out on Watson even though his recent touchdown streak shows his ability. I'm not convinced he will stay on the field. Gute has found a few players but his misses are really noticeable.

It might be time to look for a new GM/personnel director. Player evaluation has been off and so has the money they paid people.
I would give Matt LF one more year to right the ship but he should be on a short leash. He needs to lead and not be a buddy on the sidelines.

1 points
5
4
PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:45 am

It is exactly because they are so short-handed on defense that they should enter a rebuild: Cut or trade anyone who is not part of the long-term future. Clean house, like the Bears did last year, and then we can gradually build a stronger contender from a fresh slate.

-1 points
2
3
croatpackfan's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:52 am

I agree with you about new GM/Personnel director. Promote Brian Gutekunst to that position and take back Mark Murphy to do what he shows he is good at. It will help Packers a lot. Mark Murphy do not know how to run the football operations. The result of his involvement is present Packers team.

3 points
3
0
Minniman's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:53 pm

An interesting point about Wyatt. He's clearly not putting it together on the training field - else he'd be playing.

I can't reconcile that he and Walker would play so well for Georgia in their championship run and this not translate to at least average NFL play........ this is surely a coaching problem.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:37 am

As usual Al has nailed the current situation for the Packers defense perfectly. The level of play, lack of physicality, no sense of urgency and mediocre coaching is just about unwatchable. The defense is just getting worse every week. 363 rushing yards allowed is unacceptable.

Should we start a pool for how many yards Justin Fields will run for this week? Thanks, Since '61

3 points
4
1
croatpackfan's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:53 am

Since it looks like he will not play vs Packers because of his shoulder injury.

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:29 am

So only about 75 yards?

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:01 am

Cookie for Dobber!! Thanks, Since ‘61

3 points
3
0
T7Steve's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:18 am

I thought he'd take 61 yards. LOL

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:07 am

Croat my guess would be that whoever plays QB for the Bears will have the best day of their career against the Packers defense either passing or running.

For at least a decade the Packers have enabled numerous, previously, unheard of QBs to look like Johnny Unitas.

Thanks, Since ‘61

7 points
7
0
jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:22 pm

LIke that guy who replaced Cutler in the 2010 NFCCG - we made him into a one-game wonder.

0 points
0
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:37 pm

You've got that right 61. Having aq 2nd or 3red string player busting out against the Packers and looking like a million bucks has become a feature of the Packers instead of the anamoly it should be. I am trying to put a date on when that trend began. Maybe the Rogers era?

0 points
0
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:37 pm

You've got that right 61. Having aq 2nd or 3red string player busting out against the Packers and looking like a million bucks has become a feature of the Packers instead of the anamoly it should be. I am trying to put a date on when that trend began. Maybe the Rogers era?

0 points
0
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:37 pm

You've got that right 61. Having aq 2nd or 3red string player busting out against the Packers and looking like a million bucks has become a feature of the Packers instead of the anamoly it should be. I am trying to put a date on when that trend began. Maybe the Rogers era?

0 points
0
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:37 pm

You've got that right 61. Having aq 2nd or 3red string player busting out against the Packers and looking like a million bucks has become a feature of the Packers instead of the anamoly it should be. I am trying to put a date on when that trend began. Maybe the Rogers era?

0 points
0
0
Grandfathered's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:37 pm

You've got that right 61. Having aq 2nd or 3red string player busting out against the Packers and looking like a million bucks has become a feature of the Packers instead of the anamoly it should be. I am trying to put a date on when that trend began. Maybe the Rogers era?

0 points
0
0
BruceC1960's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:40 am

I’m curious to see the reaction on this board if the Bears dominate this game with a power run game and short passing game. All done with a 2nd team QB.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:03 am

I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who expects this D to function. The one scenario when it has is when it’s only stressed one way, which effectively you suggest. If that approach succeeds then I think we will all be focused on why our offense was so bad it could.

1 points
1
0
Minniman's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:58 pm

I hope to see the D come out and play like a team that was categorically embarrassed by the Eagles. It's either going to be spectacularly good...... or bad!....... but it WILL be a spectacle.

0 points
0
0
Minniman's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:58 pm

I hope to see the D come out and play like a team that was categorically embarrassed by the Eagles. It's either going to be spectacularly good...... or bad!....... but it WILL be a spectacle.

0 points
0
0
Fubared's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:11 pm

Unfortunately most of us are running out of bad things to say about the team and coaching staff. We most likely wont be shocked at the bears doing just what you said.
I got news for diva boy who owns the bears: they have 11 picks in the draft, many of then high picks and they are 110 mil under cap. Enjoy your day, this will be your last laugh.

1 points
1
0
Fubared's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:41 am

Thanks Al another doozy of an article. One important thing, while many blame coaching for the regression, if I'm Barry, I cannot make Amos faster, Douglas willing to play closer and vie for the ball, Stokes to suddenly understand patterns and defend better ans Savage to be able to do anything but run around looking lost.
We lack talent on defense plain and simple and no coaching change will improve that.
IMO thats why they havent canned Barry, he really inherited this mess and the brass know that. He told a sports analyst he cant play cover defense he doesnt have the talent. His soft D basically is saying my guys need a running head start.
The biggest problem for Pack fans to ponder is this: it will take a very very good couple of drafts to fix this and the guy drafing created this mess to begin with. Not a pretty picture going forward

-6 points
0
6
PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:58 am

It is the JOB of the DC to help his players and tell them what to do! If Barry can’t do that, then why is he employed? Ask MLF.

Also, the issue is not lack of talent because we’ve seen these players succeed. Amos is getting old, which is the main factor for his regression, I think. Douglas I’m not sure, but he was super good last year. Savage we’ve seen succeed in the past, but it is probably just regression, and I don’t think Barry’s scheme is great for him. The coaching encouraging the defensive players to avoid contact doesn’t help, either.

6 points
6
0
packrules's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:46 am

Outside of Rashaun Gary and Aaron Jones, I'm hard pressed to find any other players who haven't regressed this year.

5 points
5
0
PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:53 am

Za’Darius Smith? Oh wait….

4 points
5
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:40 am

lets be fair. he took last year off to rest up for this year.

7 points
7
0
Stickfish's picture

November 30, 2022 at 05:18 pm

As are others on this year’s version. Say what you will, these are generally grown men who are not complete idiots. The players (some anyways) may have figured this team out long, long before the media and coaches did.
<><

And an edit -some of their agents also figured out this season, maybe before the players as their $ depends on it. For us it’s a game. For them . . . It’s about the Benjamins.

<><

0 points
0
0
PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:52 am

This season is lost: MLF and Barry are not the guys. Both look lost and helpless on the sidelines, and that is bleeding into the locker room. MLF is a good play caller, but he doesn’t have the guts to stand up to anyone, whether it is bending to Rodgers’ whims or vigorously defending Barry after his defense let up 500(!) yards. He never learns from his mistakes (Drayton), and his staff hires have been terrible. MLF is the root of the problem, and he needs to go.

The Packers must enter a rebuild: Cut or trade anyone who is not part of the long-term future. Clean house, like the Bears did last year, and then we can gradually build a stronger contender from a fresh slate, large salary cap, and lots of draft picks. Hire a new, more energetic coach with a proven record of success; I am talking about Dan Quinn. He inspires his players to fight hard, and is the mastermind behind the Cowboys’ no. 1 defense, their leading the NFL in sacks, and is the mastermind behind the development and rise of Micah Parsons, the current DPOY favorite. He could do amazing things.

-1 points
3
4
13TimeChamps's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:46 am

Dan Quinn's record as a HC was 43-42. His last 3 years, before getting fired...was 14-23. That's your idea of a "proven record of success"?

6 points
8
2
PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:30 am

He had crappy personnel on defense and still got his team to the SB in his second year of being a HC! Not to mention he is coaching the #1 defense in the NFL, the #1 defense in sacks, and the current DPOY favorite, Micah Parsons. A hell of a job he's done in Dallas.

-1 points
2
3
13TimeChamps's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:44 am

"A hell of a job he's done in Dallas"

Yes...as a Coordinator. His record got progressively worse each year after the SB season. If MLF's record over his last 37 games was 14-23, you'd be the first to be screaming for him, his entire staff, and everyone in the FO to be fired immediately.

Lots of really good Offensive and Defensive Coordinators end up as mediocre Head Coaches. I see no reason to think he'd be any different given a 2nd opportunity.

4 points
4
0
PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:26 pm

Okay...well then who else?

0 points
0
0
13TimeChamps's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:36 pm

I have no idea. I'm just a fan. I don't pretend to have the knowledge and/or the experience to decide who deserves to be a HC in the NFL. There are folks who have been in this business pretty much their entire adult lives who get paid very handsomely to make those decisions.

Besides, last I checked, there wasn't a current opening for a HC position in Green Bay. And I doubt there'll be one next year either.

1 points
1
0
Rebecca's picture

November 30, 2022 at 08:56 am

Smith, Bahktiari haven’t regressed and that’s a very small list.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:07 am

Nijman is another. Cobb too. I’d say Deguara when given opportunities.

2 points
2
0
HawkPacker's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:43 am

Love to a certain extent as well.

1 points
1
0
Rebecca's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:00 am

Could be a leadership problem. That’s systemic and certainly the coaches should be held to account. This team acts like it’s been traumatized. Concussed in fact. It’s alarming to see, then there are the Rams fans. They’re being punished for buying an all-in for the win Super Bowl team last year. Spectacular fail for the Packers trying the same thing this year except instead breaking the bank for Aaron Rodgers.

3 points
3
0
Swisch's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:21 am

The regressing is so depressing.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:34 am

Reading this whole thing suggests one thing. The biggest issue with this team is coaching. Not every problem is one the coaches. Players missing tackles and things like that are on the players. But the root of the problem is coaching. And specifically defensive coaching. And it starts at the top with Joe Barry.

This past game they missed 20+ tackles. That's inexcusable. You can't place the blame on the coaches for that. Some of them you can give the offensive players credit. But you have to look at why they had so many missed tackles. And that to me starts with the scheme. The question to ask about the scheme is, did the coaches put the players in the best position to play well? I don't think so. First off the eagles are a running team. Clearly. So why were we playing so much nickel? Only having 2 DL against a team that is running the ball down our throats? And then there is situational football. 3rd and 14 and the DB's are playing 12 yards off the ball? There have been way to many situations like that this year. To me that is all on the coaching.

Speaking of coaching. Why the hell was Amari Rodgers returning anything when Nixon has been on the roster this whole year. Rodgers clearly was not a return man. So why was he returning?
This goes back to coaches not putting their players in the best position to succeed.

6 points
6
0
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:45 am

When a group as a whole regresses the primary suspect is the coaching. Players do not regress en mass for individual reasons. That’s a mix of coaching, personnel choice and what they are being asked to do in the light of their skills. In my view there is, in addition, disarray in both the front 7 and secondary. That further indicates coaching. For this reason I have, rather later than most, concluded not that Barry should go, but that he must go. He is clearly a negative influence in performance. That needs to be removed.

That’s not happening, but that’s not a surprise. Our Head Coach is simply not that person. He’s all inclusive, a mentor who is too empathetic and loses sight if his purpose as well as struggles to assert and maintain distance. We see this in coaches whom his urge is to exonerate and apologize for despite the obvious failings. Drayton and now Barry being clear examples. We also see it in players: I believe him when he says that he was heart broken over Amari. He really struggles to take guys like Watkins out. Once you’re in, he wants to fix you. His coaches seem to be of the same mindset.

A consequence is a lack of ability to adjust, learn and improve, personnel and usage, which leads to a loss if accountability for performance. He may well, on personality type, struggle to deal with open dissent too—perhaps that’s what led to Hill being exiled.

He has alluded to a very collegial and devolved decision making process. He allowed Drayton to talk him in to keeping Amari as returner last year, by his own admission. He allowed Stenavich to convince him to rejig the whole O line for the championship game. He again referred to it with Barry this week. That’s very nice in a counselor, but in a Head Coach it leads to confusion, contradictory decisions and a general mess.

On O, his sticking with older players forced him to run and pass into the same spaces to the point of utter constipation. I genuinely believe he only slowly emerged from that once Rodgers made it clear he was going to throw deeper regardless of LaFleur calling routes designed not to. We wasted Doubs by largely running him from a couple of yards out. We only got Watson going when Rodgers decided to throw to him and keep doing so.

As Rodgers said, 20 throws into tight coverage is not going to work often, but by then the rest of the world bar LaFleur knew that. Yet he still tried to call it. For that at least, Rodgers deserves credit, but it’s pretty risible when LaFleur has to be dragged into it. It’s no accident that by doing so, pressure in the OL has decreased and their performance and the run game output have improved. The short pass/run game is one that never works if that’s all you do, and every D showed us why after Tampa. It’s equivalent to just running every down really. That’s not a competent design by and has never been since the advent of the forward pass.

LaFleur simply is not a Head Coach. His personality and style will never work when backs are against the wall and adjustments needed. It never has. We never have figured out how to handle certain opponents because his style makes change very difficult. This is why his supposed tactical skills don’t show up in practice in large part.

LaFleur has done very well in the back of Rodgers, but he never has and probably never will be Head Coach material. Now with the roster and other issues, this becomes more and more obvious by week and by crisis.

Nothing fundamental will be fixed till we have a true head coach. For that reason, we need to temper player evaluation and be patient until we can get the cultural and coaching changes in place and let them determine what they have and how that fits. If we don’t do that, expect the spiral to continue. This is a team and coaching staff that is reflecting a leadership that is constitutionally flawed to a fundamental degree.

10 points
10
0
croatpackfan's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:32 am

There is no question you are right about main problem Packers have. I said months ago that MLF work results does not looks like HC work, but OC work. Because it was like he does not care about the D or ST. More deeper we goes to the season that become more obvious.

So, I suppose MLF was talking about offense on his HC interview, probably because MM asked him how he sees offense in the future, and requested him to keep Mike Pettine. That might produce understanding that he do not need to take care of defensive side of the ball. Also, if the reports are correct, he was refused in his request for specific coach. Instead to grant him the coach he wanted, I suppose he get answer like: No, he is to expensive, find someone cheap. ST is not that much important.

All of that allowed MLF to take care just on the offensive side of the ball. Hell, at press conferences reporters were asking him the questions almost exclusively related to offense, rarely about ST and very rarely about D. As they also accepted that MLF are OC who is acting HC.

Loss of Hackett left him solo to wrestle with ACR demands, this year especially hard job to do, with all rights ACR get from MM.

So, while I agree with you that he is not HC material, he might not have chance to develop that mindset considering circumstances in Packers organizational scheme. Time will tell when he will start to search new HC job. He might finish as Cowboys HC following the steps of Mike McCarthy...

2 points
2
0
BirdDogUni's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:23 am

*Yes, the defense sucks and MaLF refuses to face reality...

My question is: With Murphy unopposed, how do we get the people who need to be fired, fired?

Who is going to hold Murphy, Gutey, MaLF, and Barry accountable?

The Board?

Didn't you previously state the Board is all Murphy men?
(What is this, 1878 Lincoln County?)

MaLF is as bad as MM when it comes to coaching the "whole" team. Neither did/do...

Murphy needs to be fired for his usurper tactics.

Gutey needs to be fired for sucking at his job.

MaLF needs to be fired for hiring Barry.

Barry needs to be jettisoned into the Sun...

Just saying.

0 points
3
3
T7Steve's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:33 am

Amen brother.

2 points
2
0
Since&#039;61's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:03 pm

Coldworld - Excellent analysis of the coaching situation specifically MLF. MLF has numerous weaknesses for an HC. He is non-confrontational which is fine if you are in a position that is not accountable for results. But he is and there are times when he needs to assert his authority.

One of the problems which has existed since MLF was hired is that Rodgers knows and understands more about the game on the field than MLF does. There are times when Rodgers is coaching/teaching MLF about the nuances of the game and why particular play calls will not work. This comes across as arrogance on Rodgers part but where I come from we call it having the confidence to speak out when something is not working correctly or not working at all. Rodgers has a huge ego no doubt but he backs it up with his level of play, at least until this season, and he has the confidence in himself to pull it off.

As I have posted before the situation with MLF is the result of poor hiring practice by Murphy. You don't hire the second most important person in your organization off of one interview but Murphy did. Murphy and Gute should have realized that they needed a coach with enough experience and secure enough in their knowledge of the game to be able to offer Rodgers value from a coaching perspective. That should been job #1 at the time.

When I was still active in my consulting practice I would work with CEOs and Executive Management about creating alignment in their organizations. Value proposition, Corporate Strategy, Communications, Recruiting/Hiring practices, Employee Training, Products, Marketing, Distribution and Customer Fulfillment all need to be aligned for the organization to succeed and reach its earnings and ROI goals. Apparently this approach is not practiced in Green Bay at least not within the football operation.

This starts with Murphy, though the GM, the HC, coaching staff and the players. We're seeing the results on the field. Bottom line is that Murphy is going one way, Gute another, MLF is caught in the middle and in over his head because he doesn't know enough about defense or STs to take corrective measures in those phases. He has a QB who knows more about offense than he does to the point where the QB is coaching the HC. That could be OK behind the scenes but it is obviously playing out publicly during the games. I believe that Rodgers wants to win and that he feels like his HC is in his way.

IMO it's time to burn it down and start it over from Murphy on down or in the alternative hire a new GM and give him the reigns to run the organization without interference from Murphy. Let the GM hire he HC. And build from there. Unfortunately with the recent extensions of Gute and MLF I don't see any of this happening for the next 2 seasons. So here we are. Again great post. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:35 pm

Since we share somewhat similar backgrounds in organizational change and enhancement, it’s perhaps not surprising that we see similar tells. Certainly I profoundly believe that this organization took a dramatic wrong turn when it allowed its President to effectively become the GM. That was not because it was Murphy but because it was always going to lead to this position at some point with him or a successor. What we have seen since is exactly as you describe it: fractured, contradictory and opaque.

Any worthwhile fix starts at the top, and extends to restoring separation of football and governance functions. That will need a new President, a true separate GM, a board clear out and, hopefully, some amendments to the articles to prevent what Murphy did being repeated.

3 points
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Since&#039;61's picture

December 01, 2022 at 09:02 am

CW - I agree on everything but the Board clear out because I'm not sure how the board members earn their positions. I don't know if they are appointed or re-elected or if they have specific terms or what it would take to remove them. My best guess would be that they have term limits. In any case I don't expect that they will clear themselves out. Of course at this point I would be fine if they did. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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JerseyAl's picture

December 01, 2022 at 09:26 am

I happened to look a few weeks ago and was very surprised to see how many board of directors there are. Currently 42 plus 39 more as "Director Emeritus." To have that many people on the board, I have to think these positions are simply handed out as "rewards" for things they've done supporting the Packers organization. How many would actually be qualified to advise on the running of a professional football team is debatable.

1 points
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croatpackfan's picture

December 01, 2022 at 11:32 am

Interesting take, Al. I did not know that fact. Hmmm. No hope Mark Murphy will be called for this mess from anyone...

0 points
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fair_weather's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:58 am

"Rodgers gives the Packers the best chance to win". -Not the winning argument you think it is.

Instead, give me your take on what do the Packers offer Rodgers?

1 points
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Since&#039;61's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:09 pm

From a coaching perspective the Packers are not offering Rodgers anything. In fact Rodgers is the one coaching his HC because his HC doesn't have the experience and is not secure enough in the knowledge that his system works.
Thanks, Since '61

2 points
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fair_weather's picture

November 30, 2022 at 05:08 pm

My point exactly. Why does he even want to be here. Sure doesn't look like it.

0 points
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Dragon5's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:37 am

The frog boil is near boiling; when Packer media begins to use razor blades to dissect the team's transgressions, we know it's bad. I've noticed a change in your temperment these past few Wednesdays AL, you're a well received voice of reason among the fanbase...KEEP LAYING IT ON THICK!!!

It's always politics; the powerthirsty brass will do everything they can to keep the status quo. They are but a few grasshoppers...we ants are MANY...and if we unite, we can force change. https://youtu.be/tWyU_LEr6eE

Leadership's poor performance / decision making from the top downce has been masked by the spoils of a HoF QB in a weak division for some time. Having some spine to lead this organization would be a pleasant surprise, and, at the very least, inspire and build confidence, cause without it, we have nothing but memories.

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:25 pm

The forecast calls for Pain...

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:25 pm

.

1 points
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HarryHodag's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:40 am

One more point: I think the Aaron Rodgers drama and the 'vibe' that is likely around the locker room also plays a part. When your HOF QB (reportedly) wants out, then the team gives him a monster contract while others are waiting it makes you wonder. When your top receiver leaves(even though offered more money) that also says something is amiss.
The Cowboys game was a shocker. It showed this team is capable of winning and winning now. But for some reason they simply can't get it going together. That is likely coaching, recognizing that pros are very different from college players.
If the staff can't fix this then it's on them.

6 points
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PackfanNY's picture

November 30, 2022 at 10:58 am

The one thing that gets left out is EFFORT. It’s easy to say guys are just getting beat but it’s usually very hard to say someone is not giving it their all. However, I would submit anyone who has watched the Eagles game might really question the effort or lack thereof. The Packers appeared to be playing a version of two hand touch particularly during the second half of that game. Very little gang tackling or rallying to the ball. Plenty of head shaking and eye rolling. We need to be honest that their are much bigger problems than talent. Kenny Clark was invisible on Sunday night. Him and a whole lot of other players on the field. Serious changes are needed. Players and coaches.

4 points
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HawkPacker's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:58 am

I agree on Clark. For years, all the packer fans have marveled at his skill level. The best thing I thought about him was/is that he is so good since everyone is stating he is so good and maybe he is but I just don't actually see it. I have heard in the past that he is almost as good as Aaron Donald. Now when I see the Rams play, you can see how Donald affects the game.

I am sorry to say, that I do not see Kenny Clark affect the game very often.

I am sure to get some down votes on this but in all honesty, I just do not see the talent level that so many people apparently see. He might be the best DL that we have but to compare him to Aaron Donald......just don't see it.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:30 pm

Montgomery wanted to flex him and use stunts across the front. I have not seen any evidence of this scheme manifesting, to date.

0 points
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PackfanNY's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:41 pm

I saw some Pro Football Focus numbers on Twitter that showed the significant decline in the performance of a number of Packers defenders and Kenny Clark and Adrian Amos amongst others were way down from 2021 compared to 2022. Now I am not a full blown PFF devotee but when the performance seems to agree via the eye test the truth is there somewhere.

I do think Clark had a significant impact in previous years. Everyone always said that the guy shouldered most of the load because of the lack of other good lineman around him. Well, drafting Wyatt, development of Slaton and signing of Reed was “suppose” to be a major upgrade and free him up. Instead that unit has regressed and once again, stopping the run is a problem. In fact, with all that FIRST Round talent we are watching the defense stumble around the field. Something’s wrong and it needs fixing for next season. It’s players, coaching, and talent acquisition…ALL of the ABOVE. Just not good enough.

0 points
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splitpea1's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:06 am

"When two guys picked up for nothing..." : That's a huge black mark on Gute's defensive drafting methodology. Some of these guys may be very athletic, intelligent, and great in the clubhouse, but what we need are hard-nosed football players with instinct, attitude, tackling ability, and a fondness for delivering punishment to the opponent (have to be careful around the QB, though)--even if it means they draw a flag once in a while for being overly enthusiastic. We need a culture rebuild on the defensive side of the ball. I think part of it is leadership and scheme, but part of it also falls on the individual players.

2 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:34 am

I completely agree, and hiring Dan Quinn as HC would provide that culture revival.

-5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:35 pm

More of the same. The guy is a career coordinator.

2 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:14 am

Al,
It snowed a lot yesterday and I was already kinda/sorta depressed this morning, however your article sadly takes my depression to a whole new level. :)

Therefore, here is what brightens my day is if the defensive failures are mainly coaching it is ONE HELL OF A LOT EASIER to replace the Defensive Coaches vs trying to replace the players on defense. Meaning most of the defensive issues could be quickly changed almost overnight this offseason. :)

Great article and very accurate! Thanks!

6 points
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jimtalkbox's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:40 am

There's no way that a team with this much talent on D should be this bad. This all points squarely to poor coaching. As you mentioned, nearly all of our "stars" have regressed. IT'S THE COACHING!

1 points
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jlc1's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:42 am

Lackluster coaching it is. Having an entire unit regress in both technique and effort there can be no other conclusion. It sure seems Barry lost this locker room early on and so the question is how and why? Of the four wins one was against a team with no 1st team receivers and the other against a 3rd string QB. So I would say he lost them in preseason.

1 points
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JoePack1212's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:14 pm

I don't know why these Coaches especially Berry don't understand that they have lost this Team and the Defense in particular. Obviously, When you say there will be accountability and a Standard for every Player to live up to but then you don't enforce what you say its a Recipe for Disaster!!!! Yes Injuries have also effected things but if the Accountability was there you would have Players playing like their Livelihoods really depended on it. Amari Rodgers should have been off this Team a long time ago yet he's been here for his 3rd Year. Dean Lowery is only good when the entire Defense is playing good. The Fiasco with AR is even more Stupid, letting him determine not to play in the Preseason was a huge Mistake and then making Excuses Week for how badly he played. At first the Defense was playing pretty decently but then when they saw AR was getting away with so much in not doing his Job the Offensive Line, Wide Receivers, Special Teams no wonder the Defense decided to cash it in. Jaire tried to warn the Coaches about playing the Vikings using Zone but Berry and the Defensive Coaches just wouldn't listen. Now you have a Team that's only interested in their Paychecks and not getting injured instead of doing their Jobs. MLF, it was a great 3 Year ride but now is your time to be tested, pull your head out, Players respect tough Coaches not WIMPS, its time to wake up and smell the Coffee!!!!

0 points
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PeteK's picture

November 30, 2022 at 12:21 pm

It has been a seesaw all season long. When the defense plays well as it did in the 4th quarter vs Titans, the offense couldn't muster points. Versus Eagles the offense was very good, but D stunk. The O line couldn't block a tree, then we couldn't catch the ball, and now we can't tackle. It is too simple to just blame the coaching, with a team that won 13 games and showed up defensively in the playoffs. Without balance there usually is no winning. " My world is spinning around, everything is lost that I found"

0 points
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JerseyAl's picture

November 30, 2022 at 01:50 pm

Feeling Moody and Blue today?

3 points
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Alberta_Packer's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:09 pm

This article spotlights just how poor Packers management is with regression analysis - which is a reliable method of identifying which variables (assets - players) have impact on an overall objective. The Packers practice of overpaying for under-performing players ( Lowry), ignoring the fact that large 3rd + contracts usually benefit the players more than the team (Rodgers, Bakhtiari) and projecting that one-year wonders (Campbell, Douglas) will be able to duplicate their performance in subsequent years - are all confirmation of managerial myopia and ineptness. If Murphy, Ball (et al) were real world investment managers - their corporation would be in chapter 11 bankruptcy by now.

3 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:30 pm

The Packers have been really close to C11 a few times. I'm not talking about at the beginning when George Halas had to save them.

1 points
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Alberta_Packer's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:57 pm

The reality now, fortunately, is that the Packers is one of the most financially sound franchises in the NFL. However as we discuss the path going forward for the team - it should also include the management. If there are talent issues with regards to the team - I proffer that the same could be said of management. It is time for the Board of Directors to be involved - otherwise it will just be "Groundhog Day" for the GBP.

2 points
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:38 pm

Maybe if the Packers finish last in the division someone on the Board will finally step up and say "the Emperor (ie. Murphy) has no clothes. But I doubt it.

2 points
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Alberta_Packer's picture

November 30, 2022 at 06:07 pm

Hoping-thinking that from the gazillion directors sitting on the Board - one of them could see what is actually happening and call for a complete review and assessment of football operations. If so, and done properly, Murphy should be among the first casualties. But I'm not holding my breath.

2 points
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beautiful_mystery's picture

November 30, 2022 at 02:17 pm

I would love to hear the usual cast of characters (players & coaches) and their comments after willingly taking truth serum....kinda like the end of The Bachelor when they huddle up (not that I watch that show or anything:).

I request laughing gas for the next game... sometimes, there isn't any more salt or tears to give. 😁

1 points
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jurp's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:39 pm

If only they'd legalize cannabis in this state, we could all be a lot more chill when we watch the game...

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 30, 2022 at 07:22 pm

Might be some paranoia?

1 points
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Scott1369's picture

November 30, 2022 at 04:16 pm

The Packers have blitz packages? Holy shit! I have to pay attention more. I consistently see 4 man fronts giving the QB plenty of time to wait patiently for the receivers to find the soft spots in the zone coverages. I really can't wait for a new D coordinator

0 points
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beautiful_mystery's picture

November 30, 2022 at 09:35 pm

Yesss, I figured it out! I am going to get a tat of "your name" on my left butt cheek. When I am tailgating, I will bet a wholesome Packer lass a cold Leinies, "I got your name on my left cheek". She will take the bait...cold Leinies in hand. Now, to score a brat...I will attempt the same with the biggest, baddest, tallest, saltiest Bear fan...

To be continued...

1 points
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fangirl's picture

November 30, 2022 at 11:28 pm

I love reading the beautiful prose and analysis from Coldworld, Since 61 and Dragon 5.
Any of you could present a cogent and eloquent statement to shareholders
as to the emergent need to oust the FO and Board. The health and success of the Packer's team literally depends on this shake-up.

2 points
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