Eyes Front: Performance in Vegas Will Speak Volumes

Packers need to show up and beat an inferior team.

Looks like the Packers’ mini bye is yielding its hoped-for results. Jaire Alexander, Aaron Jones and Christian Watson are trending towards full go Monday night, as is Luke Musgrave. Elgton Jenkins is likely a game-time decision, and while Eric Stokes has been back at practice, it’s hard to imagine Green Bay activating him to the 53 after so much time away.

Returning such critical players, and possessing a more talented roster overall, suggests the Packers should have a leg up in the Davante Adams Reunion Bowl in the desert. Yet nothing about this game is a certainty, and NFL teams that have lost three games in a row are always dangerous, unless they’re the Panthers. 

Beating the Raiders for a win in the standings won’t mean much beyond the feels. That’s not what this year of transition and evaluation should be about. But what happens in Vegas will be a bellwether for where this team stands, and for what needs to happen going forward. 

The Packers did everything poorly against the Lions, a superior team, and deserved to be crushed. Now we need to see the results of what ought to be a get-right game against a mediocre team. 

First, Matt LaFleur has to come with a more logical game plan than the baffling embarrassment we saw against Detroit. On offense, an aggressive ground game is essential, both to take some pressure off the pass rush and to open up the middle of the field, where this receiving corps does its best work. 

Second, the Packers must be more prepared and disciplined, particularly by eliminating drive-killing penalties. Part of this problem is the O-line shuffling that David Bakhtiari’s injury has necessitated; finding a combination and sticking with it would help. 

But as is often the case, this game will come down to Joe Barry, which is, of course, the problem. There are two Raiders who can do major damage — Adams and Josh Jacobs — and it would behoove Mr. Barry to take a page from Bill Belichick’s playbook and install a plan to take away the opposition’s game-wrecking playmakers. Barry might also want to consult the early chapter in “NFL Defense for Dummies” where it talks about the importance of stopping the run.  

Jacobs started the season slowly, but he racked up 139 yards last week against the Chargers, including 81 through the air. All he did last year was lead the league in rushing, gaining 1,653 yards and 12 touchdowns.

Meanwhile, quarterback Aiden O’Connell, a fourth-round draft pick subbing for the concussed Jimmy Garoppolo, was 24 for 39 for 238 yards against L.A., despite being sacked seven times (which caused three fumbles by the rookie).

When O’Connell was able to avoid Khalil Mack, who accounted for six of those sacks, he hit Davante eight times for 75 yards, and pretty much every time Las Vegas needed a first down. It’s what 17 does. 

We don’t know whether Jimmy G will return to action Monday, though it seems likely. This might be a good thing for Green Bay, as he is much less prone to push the ball downfield, and much less mobile, than O’Connell.

So this is not complicated; play the run competently enough that Jacobs doesn’t go off for 150-plus yards on the ground, and limit Davante’s touches with double teams and, we hope, a healthy Jaire.

And on the other side of the ball, keep Jordan Love clean enough, through moving the pocket, motion and screens, and a zone-beating, middle of the field passing scheme. 

We knew this season would have its ups and downs. That will continue. But losing to a much lesser team than Detroit, after last week’s meltdown, will validate the calls for big changes.   

 

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__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child.  He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.

__________________________

8 points
 

Comments (112)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Boneman's picture

October 06, 2023 at 06:31 am

Sorry but this is not a 'year of evaluation'. There is no such thing in multi billion dollar competitive sports. Do you really believe that type of attitude exists in NFL offices and boardrooms? Do you think less than top results is tolerated anywhere in the business corporate world? Imagine a Chrysler memo from the CEO letting everyone know it's OK to have less than successful results in their departments as long as they focus on getting accurate performance evaluations! It doesn't happen and it doesn't exist in the real world. It only exists in the fantasy world of fans and journalists that want to 'ease the pain' of losing. The Packers players and coaches will be judged by winning and losing, period. There are no moral victories in pro sports. Losing begets losing, and that is it. Ask the Bears, Cardinals, Panthers, Falcons, Lions, Giants, Jets, Browns and yes, da Raiders. The only evaluative moral victories you will see is if the Packers play well and lose to clearly superior teams like say the Chiefs, 49ers and Cowboys. Every other team on their schedule, including the Lions are games that will be judged by wins and losses. Nothing else is acceptable when you put on the big boy pants in the NFL. So far the Lions loss is a clear indictment of the leadership on the team and you can bet they are working to fix things like their careers depend on it, because they do.

-10 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

October 06, 2023 at 06:58 am

Maybe I missed your point. Every years is a year of evaluation. Evaluation needs to be done whether you are winning or losing or a contender or a pretender. Successful corporations are always evaluating their corporation, the environment, and the economy and making changes as needed otherwise they will not be successful.

The Packers are in a rebuild, yes a rebuild, even though Gute will not admit it. When you are rebuilding you go out and play the game to win and if you do you evaluate and make changes to get better. You do the same when you lose. The goal is not to just win it is to get better even if you have a dynasty.

12 points
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Boneman's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:10 am

You are correct. Evaluation is an ongoing process built into a system to self correct towards the goals of the corporation. The point I was trying to make is that the evaluation process is never the point, goal or ambition of the team or corporation. It is part of the ongoing process. What I keep hearing and reading is that winning and losing doesn't matter this year for the Packers because it's an evaluation year. I contend that is hooey. If we lose to teams that are inferior or even with us on the talent scale, there will be repercussions in the organization. No free passes. Guess what, most of the teams on our schedule fall into that category.

10 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:30 am

Solid recovery post, Boneman. Thumbs up from me exclusively for the use of "hooey."

7 points
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GaryC's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:11 am

I think it should absolutely be a year of evaluation regarding the coaching staff. I’m fully behind the kids and prepared for ups and downs. Where I have absolutely zero patience is with this coaching staff starting with LaFleur. How many times has he stood at that podium and said the words “out-coached”, “out-fought” and “not prepared well enough”.

7 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:10 am

There is some truth in that to a point, but what really matters with the youngest roster in the league and In generations for the Packers, is the growth in that roster.

This year is also a critical test for the coaches ability to develop but also to identify strengths, motivate, and provide direction. As importantly, this year we needed to discover what our coaches really are without any real or imagined influence from Rodgers. Are these coaches we can win with when it matters.

This year isn’t going to be the best year for this roster as a whole, most of which will, if they succeed, be here for 3 or 4 more. They should be better next year. I don’t think most see us as a true contender for Super Bowl. The real test is how much closer we will be on field next year, and whether that means new leadership off field.

The real prize is what we could become after this year. This is a longer game. What we must not see this year is coaches, individually and collectively holding us back in terms of, games and record, but also player development. At this point that may in fact be exactly what we are seeing. That’s a test we needed and one that is critical to our future.

7 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:16 am

fact...well stated...its the NFL quit with the "young team" bs....these guys been playing football a long time now, a good coach should have them more prepared and making in game adjustments which isn't happening

4 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 06, 2023 at 01:56 pm

Obviously, I disagree with each and every sentence in your comment except the last sentence: "So far, the Lions loss is a clear indictment of the leadership on the team...."

6 points
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White92's picture

October 07, 2023 at 10:39 am

Preach

0 points
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dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 06:54 am

"Packers need to show up and beat an inferior team"

You need to adjust your subtitle to: Packers need to show the Raiders are an inferior team.

By most statistical metrics these two teams aren't very different so far. The Packers need to show that they're better than what those stats indicate....not that they ARE the team their stats indicate.

Your point that this is a game that sets the tone going forward is mostly right, though. The Packers need to show that--with players coming back and against a team that they should be able to beat--they're with-it enough to bounce back and get it done, on the road, against a team they SHOULD beat.

15 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:57 am

"Your point that this is a game that sets the tone going forward is mostly right, though. The Packers need to show that--with players coming back and against a team that they should be able to beat--they're with-it enough to bounce back and get it done, on the road, against a team they SHOULD beat."

I agree that they need to show it. The key to this game imo is the returning of Jones and Watson on offense. Last weeks game they clearly were being held back. But this game needs to be their coming out game. Also having Musgrave for the full game will also help.

Watson becoming a key offensive player will open the offense up for the running game, for the other WR's and for the TE's. He is the ultimate explosive playmaker who can change everything for this offense. Teams have to respect his speed or will be burned badly. Besides a healthy Watson, having a healthy Jones will make a huge difference.

We need them to go out and show the world that this offense is going to be dynamic.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:12 am

Expecting this O to become dynamic after 4 games would seem a tad optimistic. Don’t get me wrong, if everything clicks it could happen in a given game, but that’s not one to bank on. What I’m looking to see from the O is greater consistency from Love and his catchers. That doesn’t come without a running game of some sort and overall better performance from the OL.

On D is where we need to see a step up. This isn’t a young group overall. We need to stop the run against a hitherto excellent RB and an OL no better at run blocking than ours. We need also to be able to get to the QB. The Raiders had played rush challenged teams and then faced Mack. It wasn’t pretty, but Jimmy G will get the ball out a lot faster. A big test of Nixon, probably Walker in coverage too.

On paper, we should beat the Raiders. Doing so won’t prove much. The key to that is stopping Crosby without letting others get free lanes and stopping them getting their run going. Adams will get yards, but he’s not got enough to make a difference typically. We can exploit their secondary if Love has time.

Losing to the Raiders should open eyes. If health is kind to both teams, this could well come down to coaching, both in terms of preparation and in game.

6 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:19 am

two mediocre coaches duking it out...

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:55 am

Well I did say that they need to show that they will be. Not that they are now. So what that means is that they are going to show that they can be dangerous with all the weapons we have. This will be the first game that all of our top playmakers will be available. We really need them to show up.

I think this is more important then our defense to be honest. Don't get me wrong, our defense needs to step up. But our offense we finally have everyone here. We need to be able to start the game much faster. The last 2 games we have scored 3 points in the first half combined. And that basically is because the defense gave them the ball in field goal range to start the game. We have to get on the score board much faster.

If our offense starts clicking that should help our defense too. There have been too many 3 and outs the last few games keeping the defense on the field longer then they need to be. If we get some good drives going, the defense will be on the field less.

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:34 pm

"We need to be able to start the game much faster."

There are 60 minutes in a game. The first snap, our O needs to be filled in. Anything less is just not competitive.

2 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 07, 2023 at 03:24 pm

Didn't really have much to say today. Anything to add but then when I read the word competitive in this post, it reminded me of what I expect. I expect the coaches to game plan and raise the level of play to an NFL competetive level. Win or lose I don't want to hear any pointless post game self assessment from any of our coaches. Time to put up or shut up. If they lose in an embarrassing way, they can go back to the drawing board quietly.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:58 am

Nobody wants to hear it but the Bears offense certainly looks more dynamic than the Packers the last two games. One was the Broncos obviously but the Commanders supposedly have a good D.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:06 pm

Well, if you cover Moore like that. Yes. Let’s see how well that continues. If that is the case though, Jefferson makes the same true of the Vikings.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:14 pm

Not sure who it was but one of the Packer scribes said this is a get well game. We'll find out Monday for which team but the loser is in trouble.

0 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:00 pm

It is kind of a weakness versus weakness game. Is the Packers' terrible run offense better than the Raiders' terrible run defense? Etc. n

One difference is that the Packers would appear to have some distinct advantages, including Passing offense over their passing defense when combined with their anemic pass rushing (other than Crosby) versus GB's generally good pass protection.

3 points
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PackerBackerAZ's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:52 am

Having a healthy Watson back will only make a huge difference if Love can solve his accuracy problems.

3 points
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Guam's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:52 am

Given the state of the Packer offensive line it is not clear to me that the Raiders are the inferior team. With Bahk gone and Nijman in the coaches' doghouse, the Packers have two very young and inexperienced tackles in Walker and Tom and Tom is playing hurt. With Jenkins out, the Packers' IOL is Newman, Myers and Runyon, who is playing injured. That group strikes fear in the hearts of no one.

The Packers could very easily lose the line of scrimmage on both side of the ball Monday night and that makes winning very difficult.

3 points
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dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:59 am

"With Jenkins out, the Packers' IOL is Newman, Myers and Runyon, who is playing injured."

If JRJ and Jenkins are BOTH out on Monday, I've got a crisp George Washington here that says we'll be seeing Tom play one of the G spots and Nijman/Jones at RT. Even if only ONE of them is out, I think there's a very real chance of seeing Tom play inside with Nijman/Jones bookending the right side..

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:18 am

I would hope that sanity prevails as you suggest. My problem is we have the coaches that pulled the switcheroo, that anointed Hanson, that made Newman a T, that played a struggling Jenkins over Tom and Nijman at RT, that won’t try Myers at G, that have our best post Bakh T at RT not at LT and refused to challenge Myers at C. If Hanson was not injured in camp, I fear they would have had him playing too.

5 points
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PackerBackerAZ's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:05 pm

Until both sides of the ball demonstrate an aggressive will to dominate they will remain unsuccessful. I don't believe you can coach aggressiveness, a player either has it or he doesn't. The Packers seem to be a very soft team with very soft coaches. That falls on Gutekunst.

1 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:39 pm

Tom and JRJ playing injured in week 4 is moronic. Have our coaches forgotten the word "depth?" We're looking at a week 6 bye and hoping the team can recover from injuries to be competitive?

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:54 am

I don't know if the Raiduhs are inferior, but I know they're on the schedule, and you have to play the teams on your schedule. Some people have stated that beating the Raiduhs only proves we can beat bad teams....I would contend that it would prove we can beat teams we're supposed to beat.

The offense needs to come out of hibernation. After the opener, we had three good quarters, then four bad quarters, then one good quarter, then a couple of bad ones again. We need to do a better job of staying on the field, and if we do that, we'll be fine.

0 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:19 am

LH
Aren't teams we're supposed to beat be considered bad teams (or teams worse than us)?
What teams do you view the Packers aren't supposed to beat? I guess I do not see the difference in a bad team we play against also being a team we're supposed to beat? Sounds redundant. Anyway... Maybe I'm reading it wrong? And no, I did not down vote you.

3 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:42 pm

Yeah, that blew me away right off the top. People seem to be thinking GB has a lot of talent, but unless and until that actually shows on the field against a team better than the bottom dwelling Bears, GB is inferior. GB is inferior in so many ways; offensive line, penalties, stopping the run, ST miscues, lack of running game, lack of protection for the QB, completion percentage issues with the passing game, tackling, etc.

What makes one think the Raiders are the inferior team?

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 06:30 pm

Let’s put it this way. Whichever team gets beaten on Monday isn’t the team it thought it was. Equally, the winner may not be either. A definition of a matchup between non apex teams at this point.

1 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:11 am

On defense I would plan to stop Adams as a priority. He is the game wrecker. Berry better have Alexander covering him the whole game if he is close to 100%. With JA covering DA we should be able to keep 7 or at least 6 upfront to stop the run. Jimmy will not run so all we have to do is make sure the front 7 fill the gaps and get off of blocks so they can tackle. There is nothing complicated here. If the defense fails we need to get rid of coaches and/or players next year.

I agree that on offense we need to run the ball. This is a good game to see if our OL is built to run the ball. If the OL blockes well Jones and Dillon will have a good game. They are going to have to be successful up the middle then they should be able to run on the outside.

5 points
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Guam's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:41 am

As good as Adams is, I am more worried about Josh Jacobs. Barry's defense has a "defend the pass first" philosophy and they usually do a decent job of it. Stopping a good rushing attack has been a serious problem. The Raiders won't need Adams if Jacobs is running all over the field and that seems a distinct possibility given recent history.

3 points
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dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:01 am

I think this is right. Jacobs hasn't broken loose, yet, but the Raiders are a listless 1-3 team even with Adams mostly running wild week in and week out.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:21 am

Adams will get yards. He has consistently despite them not being a great team. If Jacobs gets going, they are a different team and we are in a very tough spot. Their run blocking had been as bad as ours. He averaged less than Dillon and they haven’t been up against dynamo defenses mostly. If he truly breaks out and becomes a difference maker, Barry should not be on the plane home. That would require a catastrophic level of play from our DL and front 7 generally.

2 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:03 pm

GB has played the 9th, 10th and 13th best defenses by points allowed through week 4, and also Chicago, which I think is about 31st.

1 points
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dobber's picture

October 07, 2023 at 12:33 pm

LV has played three teams in the bottom 6 of defenses and Buffalo...and is almost the bottom of the league in scoring.

0 points
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GaryC's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:15 am

Barry couldn’t plan to stop Grizzly Adams.

1 points
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PackerBackerAZ's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:17 pm

Alexander covering Adams alone will fail. You need to double up on Adams. Put the defenses most aggressive player, Quay Walker, on Jacobs whether he runs or goes out in the pass game. Maybe then the Raiders will have to beat the Packers with someone else. I doubt that they can. I also doubt that Barry will make that happen.

3 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:15 am

Normally I wouldn't worry about playing the Raiders. Not even when Love is the starting QB. But IF ole #71 is lined up at Center, #70 is lined up at Left Guard, then there's a LOT of things to worry about.

Maxx Crosby lines up all over for the Raiders on Defense. When you consider ANY stunt up front by the opposing Defense just befuddles the hell out of Newman and Meyers, Crosby might have 6 sacks himself. TRY and get a running game going. Use the SHORT passing game to open things up. USE Jones out of the backfield. USE those WR's with those quick hitting passes where Jordan takes 3 steps and lets it rip. I don't care if Watson is back. Lets get the ball in his hands and let HIM work. Same with Reed and Musgrave. You've struggled with just about anything over 20 yards (really 10 yards) downfield, so don't start flinging it 50 yards downfield every other throw...They MUST get Crosby blocked because he CAN wreck a game.

Obviously with Joe Barry there's ALWAYS a concern. I'm much more concerned with Jacobs than I am Adams. IMO Alexander can handle him as long as he's 100%. Quay Walker needs to be kept clean by the front so he can take Jacobs. I have no doubt Walker can do it. But can the front even put up a fight to help him? Will Barry deploy his famous 2 down Linemen on 3rd and 3 just because the Raiders have 3 WRs on the field? Will he do it on 3rd and goal from the 2 yard line...Just like we've already seen this season...What a putz!

I'm reasonably sure the Packers will handle the Raiders. This will really be like a HOME game for the Packers. I need to have at least a little faith restored by this coaching staff. If Jones doesn't touch the ball until the 2nd quarter, OR the Packers open up with 6 straight passing plays, OR the Raiders drive 75 yards on their opening drive through the Packers Defense like a hot knife though butter, then I'll know for certain...

I'll know it will be time to start thinking about who I'd like to see as the Packers new HC in 2024...

10 points
12
2
RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:41 am

" But IF ole #71 is lined up at Center, #70 is lined up at Left Guard, then there's a LOT of things to worry about."

Everyone keeps complaining about Myers at C. Which I will agree with he has not been great, and he can be better. But how much better would Tom be at C then Myers and how much of a drop off is it with Tom going from RT to C? I really don't think there would be that much of a difference at C and I think it would be significant drop going to Yosh at RT compared to Tom. Tom has been very good at RT. The Lions game he was playing hurt.

I'd worry more about both G spots if Jenkins and Runyan can't go. That means we have to go with Newman again, and Rhyan would get his first significant action.

-1 points
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4
Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:27 am

Tom is a better pass and run blocker than Myers. He’s a technician not a power RT. He’s now arguably our best LT, but he was drafted to play C. C is arguably the second most important position on the OL if the run game is critical.

Here are Nijman’s grades from PFF.
2021 63.2 on 580 snaps LT
2022 63.1 on 756 snaps LT, RT
2023 65 on 19 snaps LT

Here’s Myers;
2021 58.3 on 293 C
2022 60.4 on 1091 C
2023 57 on 246 C

Given that PFF likes Myers better than a lot of ratings providers (at the expense of Gs) that’s a pretty telling difference in play to date.

Here’s Runyon’s score. Interestingly Runyon has declined, but also he was much better with Lucas Patrick beside him. Patrick is not generally thought of as a starting C (57.1 in 2021).

2021 65.1 on 1053 G
2022 62.6 on 1051 G
2023 54 on 246 G

By comparison, here is Zach Tom’ to date.

2022 68.3 on 499 LT, RT, G
2023 76.3 on 238. RT

Myers has always been the weaker link than Nijman. Moreover, our best consistent starter (Jenkins injury takes him out of this picture as a comparative) over the period was significantly better without Myers than with him. Myers has anyway just been poor this season and that’s allowing for generous attribution by PFF.

I know that I would be starting Tom at C yesterday, and Nijman at T if PFF has any semblance of credibility. It’s got its issues, but other rating sources tell the same tale (some much more favorable to Nijman and Runyon). PFF may be Myers best advocate apart from Herman and even he seems to have significant doubts now.

Eventually, time, performance and results trump coaching hubris. Myers is clearly a sub par replacement level starter. 70+ is a plus starter, 60+ adequate to acceptable PFF grade, and 50 is replace now. Myers has never done more than barely hit adequate. Yet he’s never been challenged whereas Nijman can barely get on the field.

Walker had a 67 rating, even after last week, by contrast. This team would be better playing Walker, Tom and Nijman. Hopefully Jenkins is back. Having a stouter C might just get Runyon back on track too.

If Rhyan isn’t better than Newman (46.1) then he’s probably not worth his spot. It’s a shame we’ve no idea if Myers can play G and that, if so, he’s not had practice there. Then again, that mirrors last years refusal to practice Nijman or Tom at RT before throwing them in there.

3 points
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2
RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:22 am

At this moment we don't know how good Tom would be at C. But we know he is pretty damn good at RT. He was good at every position he played in last year. He is basically Jenkins 2.0.

Myers has not been great. But there are things that he is good at. When he moves he is pretty good overall. My question with Myers though, how good is he when we have Newman and Runyan next to him? I am curious to see how he looks when Jenkins returns full time.

I don't get what they see in Newman that we don't. Because he has been bad. The only thing I can think of why they hadn't played Rhyan over Newman is maybe he can only play on the right side?

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:31 am

In week one, versus Chicago, Myers had a PFF rating of 44. By far the worst in the team, with Jenkins beside him. Jenkins did not have a particularly good game by his standards. That could be related to Myers’ play or a contributing factor to it.

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:30 am

And yet we won that game so handily.

It's a unit. It has to play together. Your play is going to be affected by the play of the guy next to you. And the guy across from you.

Since the day he arrived in Green Bay, he's been our starting center when he's healthy enough to play. He's not a backup at any other position. That's what the coaching staff thinks of him. I also have the evidence of my own eyes that see Myers do his job on most plays. I'm long past being "skeptical" of PFF...

If we put the line of Walker-Jenkins-Myers-Runyan-Tom on the field with some practice time together, we'll be in the game. I don't think shuffling people around or benching healthy starters because they "aren't good enough" is helpful.

I don't not know how Walker and Tom both jumped ahead of Nijman in a year. My only explanation is that both of them are actually better. Tom has clearly established himself, and the coaches seem to believe that Walker is a better fit than Nijman. I remember Nijman as doing a pretty solid job at LT when Jenkins went out in 2021. If they're better, that's good news..

-4 points
0
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Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:39 am

Yes, we beat Chicago who were horrendous. And yet so was Myers. I swear you’d melt in a mushroom cloud telling us we should value the pretty colors.

6 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:06 pm

I'd possibly take it a step further. If Walker can play RT I'd put Nijman at LT, Jenkins at G and Tom at C. Take the bye to see how Myers looks at G. I doubt he's as bad as Newman and might even be better than Runyan in the games he's struggling. That's a lot of moving parts but better to do it during the bye than to figure out you need to do it later.

Myers biggest issue is usually whiffing against more athletic players. At G he can mainly take on DTs while Tom slides to the 2nd level. Why they didn't give him some snaps at G during camp is beyond me.

5 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:21 pm

LL,

agreed 100%

1 points
1
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:48 pm

I don't think Tom was "drafted to play center." They drafted a 2nd round center the previous year. I think they thought Tom could be the multiple position back up he has been, not slotting him at center. They weren't giving up on Meyers after his rookie year to start Tom. Not when he could also play tackle.

None of us see what happens in practice and whey they are making the decisions they are making, but it sure in head-scratching when they say "best five" and then don't seem to be doing that.

The biggest issue is losing 2 all-pros on the left side and I think Runyan is playing hurt this year. But they don't seem to be adjusting well at all, either with the line-up or the coaching.

1 points
2
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:26 pm

Coaches aren't making adjustments at all. Just like last year.

When Gutey drafted Zach Tom he said C is his best position. You don't replace Myers at C if it's working. It hasn't worked this season. It rarely worked last season. This season has seen near catastrophic failure across the whole OL; fortunately that hasn't been consistent.

Those are indicators that it's time for a change. One game in 23 days is the best opportunity to implement that change since they BLEW the chance to do that before week 1.

4 points
4
0
dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:07 am

"But how much better would Tom be at C then Myers and how much of a drop off is it with Tom going from RT to C? "

That's the real question. No change happens in a vacuum...taking one guy out puts the next man up in the game. How good is that guy?...and with a cooperative position group like OL, how good is that guy playing with the guys around him?

At this stage, I'll echo CW's sentiment in that I have no clue why they haven't at least tried using their RT depth and moved Tom to a position where a much lesser player comes off the field. At this point, though, that guy is 70, not 71.

I come back to the fact that, yes, we've been told his best position is C...but he's not playing C. Plenty of inferences can be made from that from quality of depth behind Tom at RT to general quality of depth on the OL to how competent the coaches are at assessing their talent.

4 points
4
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:50 am

I can't help but thinking about late last season with Yosh playing RT and basically getting destroyed in that game. I think he allowed 3 sacks or something.

I agree that the guy they need to replace is 70, not 71. I would definitely trust Yosh over Newman. But I get that they likely want to keep Tom at RT. At this point I don't know why they haven't used Rhyan over Newman.

Gutey did say that they drafted Tom to play C. But lets be honest, he is pretty damn good everywhere he plays. We need him at RT right now.

I just don't think there is going to be that much of a change at C to offset the loss at RT by making that move.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:36 am

The two games they started him when he was essentially one armed? He injured his shoulder in the Dolphins game I think.

Newman then came in at RT, Tom was at LT (appendix issue for Bakh) They then tried to start him in 2 games, with one arm visibly impaired. One armed tackles are a bad proposition.

I think this has been pointed out many times. If anything, a knock on the coaches for pushing him out in that condition.

3 points
4
1
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:50 pm

Gutey never said they drafted Tom to play center. He said they thought Center might be his best position. That's a really different comment. They already had a 2nd fricken rounder at Center. They didn't want to pull him after a rookie year.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:27 pm

Myers missed most of his rookie year injured. He was hardly a fixture. When they draft a player describing him as profiling best at C, they didn’t draft him not to under any circumstances play C.

Had Myers worked out, Tom is clearly more versatile than Myers, so you’d expect Tom to factor in elsewhere if all things were equal, but that doesn’t change the express fact that they drafted Tom to add depth at C. That’s why the guy who picked him said what he did. Like most Packers, I’m sure they planned to cross train him. The only exception to that in fact appears to be Myers. Perhaps because he’s never mastered his first position.

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:28 pm

RCP,

you slept through all the plays when Myers got bowled over and when he can't run block?

3 points
3
0
Leatherhead's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:48 am

I agree that 70 is the problem, not 71. If Jenkins returns, that problem is solved. If he doesn't, then somebody else needs to play LG.....it's a short list of candidates.

I think we should not shuffle Tom around. Yes, he's a handy guy but I think there's some real benefit to leaving him at RT this season. In fact, I think we shouldn't shuffle Tom, or Runyan, or Myers around. Along with the TE, that's the majority of the offensive line, they're all healthy, let them practice and play together.

That's going to mean, IMO, that Rhyan is going to have to play for us, at least until Jenkins is ready. Newman can't' help out the newbie left tackle, Walker, because he needs to be helped out himself. You can put a TE over there, and an RB, but that limits what you can do . It's just too shaky on the left side to keep Newman there. We need Jenkins, or we need Rhyan.

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:41 pm

What's wrong with Nijman and Mt Caleb? Just because Newman is bad doesn't mean Myers is good.

Throughout his career Myers has mostly done at least ok in pass protection, but you can't run behind him. Long before week 1 we knew we'd need a viable run game for our pass attack to succeed.

The status quo isn't working. One game in 23 days is the best time to implement a change.

Which side is Nijman better at? If it's left, are they playing Walker instead solely because he'll be cheaper over the next 3 or 4 seasons? Nijman at LT, Mt Caleb at RT, and a healthy #50 at C is an option that might prove to be dramatically better than the collapse we saw Thursday. Walker and Nijman might be better by enough to keep Mt Caleb off the field.

The status quo on our O line might work against Vegas. Or it might turn two slightly injured players into seriously injured players. Neither of those can possibly be the best option for the rest of the season based on what we've seen so far. Change is called for!

4 points
4
0
crayzpackfan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:37 am

Thumbs up RC for fitting "G spots" within your scribe.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:13 am

lol.

Well who doesn't like a good G spot. ;)

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:47 pm

Huh, I re-read the post and couldn't find it...

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:13 pm

Evidence that Nijman is not a starting OT?

Zach Tom's best position is C. Which doesn't mean he can make the transition mid-season. They didn't try in training camp, just like they haven't given #31 Wilson a legitimate chance to run the ball.

Why even bother developing depth if you're just going to refuse to use them anyway?

5 points
5
0
Coach Cleve Steamer's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:03 pm

“ I'd worry more about both G spots…”. 2 G-Spots. Who knew? And oh no! “Newman” again!

0 points
0
0
NickPerry's picture

October 07, 2023 at 07:01 am

I'm worried about the whole interior but with that said on ANY O-Line if the Center is shit, then the whole interior of the O-Line suffers. Meyers was a mistake. Period. Just stop compounding the mistake by playing him. There ARE better options.

What I would really like to TRY and understand is WHY Nijman is in and has been in the "Outhouse". They give him a 2nd round tender, pay him in excess of $4 million for the year, and now he just sits. Why? Okay so Tom is a better RT, I get that. But the whole O-Line improves the SECOND you take Meyers out of the lineup.

From right to left the Packers O-Line should be, Walker, Jenkins, (hopefully) Tom, Runyan, & Nijman.

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:15 am

Maxx Crosby is good, but he's the Raiders' one-trick on pass rush. The Packers will need to account for him, but the Raiders are nowhere near as dynamic in their front 7 as Detroit...or even the Saints, for that matter. They're bottom 7 in pass rush.

I would argue that, more than anything else, the Packers need to control TOP (which means contending with Crosby) and continue to convert scores at a rate close to what they've done over the earlier parts of the season. I agree: that starts and ends with the OL. I'm hoping that 10 days after getting handled, we'll see an OL alignment that addresses that.

4 points
4
0
PackerBackerAZ's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:25 pm

I totally agree with everything except your take on Alexander covering Adams alone. Adams needs to be doubled at all times. We will need a new GM in 2024 in order to get that new HC.

1 points
2
1
dobber's picture

October 06, 2023 at 01:21 pm

Again--in the merry structure Murphy has blessed us with, the GM does not hire or fire the HC.

2 points
3
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:56 pm

While I agree that relying on JA to shut down Te by himself would be a mistake, (even if JA is 100%) blaming Gutey for coaching staff is a bit like people blaming AR12 for hero ball and other bad playcalling. So far the facts do not support the finger pointing. And there's less mystery involved about our current GM not having sole control over hiring and firing coaches. (Assuming he has any input at all)

MM has done some things well. Involving himself in football operations is not one of them.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:00 pm

NP,

"You've struggled with anything over 20 yards (really 10 yards) downfield, so don't start flinging it 50 yards downfield every other throw."

This. So much this!

All off-season everyone was so hyped about seeing MLF's offensive scheme unencumbered by a diva QB. I remained silent, fully aware I was never in the huddle and not privy to any of the relevant details. I still say this team needs to make the easy layups before taking time to look for the deep ball. Hero ball and wasting third and short are not things of the past.

Really simple things need to be fixed. This includes running the ball, and having "the best five" on the field. Which hasn't happened yet. Do you know if they're allergic to Nijman solely because Walker will be cheaper for the next 3 or 4 seasons?

Risking Tom and JRJ getting injured worse is bad strategy. Whatever else any of the coaching staff might be doing right is unable to counter the negative effects of continuing to play Newman Myers and injured JRJ and Tom when we see them fail as a group. Other options exist and none have even been tried.

2 points
3
1
T7Steve's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:17 am

Win in the trenches. You might still lose to a good team, depending on mistakes, but you won't even stand a chance against any NFL team if you don't.

This team isn't in rebuilding mode in the trenches except for the young depth on the D-line, so they don't get the rebuilding excuse.

4 points
4
0
Guam's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:35 am

If Bahk and Jenkins were playing I would agree that the O-line isn't rebuilding. However with Walker at LT and Tom at RT, the tackles are very young and inexperienced. Add in Newman at LG and Runyon playing with an injury at RG, the O-line has the potential to be a disaster.

Winning in the trenches is critical, I'm just not sure the Packers have the experience or talent to do so on either side of the ball right now.

1 points
1
0
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:51 pm

They are pretty young on the offensive line now too, with Bahk and Jenkins out. That's a kind of rebuild there.

-1 points
0
1
RCPackerFan's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:33 am

"So this is not complicated; play the run competently enough that Jacobs doesn’t go off for 150-plus yards on the ground, and limit Davante’s touches with double teams and, we hope, a healthy Jaire.
And on the other side of the ball, keep Jordan Love clean enough, through moving the pocket, motion and screens, and a zone-beating, middle of the field passing scheme.
We knew this season would have its ups and downs. That will continue. But losing to a much lesser team than Detroit, after last week’s meltdown, will validate the calls for big changes. "

Stopping the run needs to be key 1. They can not allow another 200+ yard rushing game.

On offense they need to get a faster start. They need to find ways to get Love in rhythm early. I think they need to mix it up more on offense. They need more motion and more movement. I would like to see a few jet sweeps ran. I'd also like to see a few more roll out passes.
This needs to be a get the offense rolling type of game.

The calls for big changes need to come if the defense has a bad game regardless if they win or lose.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:39 am

Obviously the "Now Hiring" sign is out.
The Lions Shattered their image.
And when you try to copy or imitate”.
You get the results you feared.
This team has followers. Not Leaders.
That bad boy, Fear this guy, is gone.
And you can’t book anything in the win column.

Change must happen.
A win won’t pacify or change their image.
Confusion has come to Green Bay.
And while there is plenty of blame to go around.
Titletown has turned into tinsel town.

The legends are gone. Motivation won’t change that.
The mystic of lambeau field is now a Riddle.
But before the "Rest In Peace' sign is posted.
Some of these players better bust their Butt.

-4 points
7
11
Packerpasty's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:21 am

No team fears the Packers anymore and no team fears playing at Lambeau...thats sad state of affairs...the team is soft and other teams know it...until proven different..

10 points
10
0
Coldworld's picture

October 06, 2023 at 10:46 am

The legends are not playing or not seeing many snaps or doing much at all on bad teams as well. The coaches remain and the problems are remarkably familiar. This test isn’t looking good as to whether LaFleur was a help or hindrance. That’s what is going on. Had we kept Rodgers, Love would still be starting and our Cap gone till 2027. And we’d still be facing up to the same coaching issues. And we aren’t really missing any of his cohorts except maybe Lewis. Then again, none of their new teams seem to value them particularly highly either.

1 points
3
2
Untylu1968's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:00 pm

Lambeau hasn't been feared since Favre left.

-3 points
1
4
13TimeChamps's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:27 pm

Packers record at Lambeau during a few years when Favre was on his tractor in Mississippi:

2011 - 8-0
2012 - 7-1
2014 - 8-0
2019 - 7-1
2020 - 7-1
2021 - 8-0

Favre's record at Lambeau: 97-30 (16 seasons as starter)
Rodgers record at Lambeau: 92-23-1 (15 seasons as starter)

Seems like the Packers did just fine at Lambeau after Favre left.

1 points
3
2
bottlefliper's picture

October 07, 2023 at 10:10 am

and it will be after AR has left.

0 points
0
0
bottlefliper's picture

October 07, 2023 at 10:09 am

Witch legend do you mean? Kelce!!!
Travis Kelce got it right and he is smart and strong, espacially compared to Rodgers. But thats of course not a big deal. Mr. Ivermectine was never any kind of legend. No wonder the whole world laught about him and his views. An crampy old man, afraid of planes who is way behind his recovery plan already.

Love will end up with more wins in big games than AR, even if it takes not much, as we all know.
We saw it over and over again as he found a way to loooose when it counts. AR was very bad in big games even he had great weapons and super line and a great D. Most of it was on Rodgers and he never played like 20% of the cap. Mostly like 5%. He was so overpaid for most of his prime.
Love will end up with more wins in big games than AR, even if it takes not much, as we all know.
Before MLF fixed AR he was all but done. MLF should got get way more credit. He saved AR ass in so many ways. Not the other way around. Just ask AR personal coach, Joe Rogan.

-4 points
0
4
White92's picture

October 07, 2023 at 10:48 am

So much wrong with this take I wouldn't even know where to begin.

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 07, 2023 at 12:09 pm

You get what you pay for...

1 points
1
0
LeotisHarris's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:37 am

A lot of people, many, many people are saying Doug_In_Sandpoint serves as personal barber/hair stylist for Raiders owner, Mark Davis. Not sure of it's true, but if it is, that, to me, speaks volumes.

I'm looking forward to the Packers improved performance in all phases of the game. Is that too much to ask?

2 points
3
1
Leatherhead's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:08 am

I just want a win, even if it's ugly, but I'll be disappointed if we don't move the ball and score points. And I'll continue to shake my head when special teams bites us, because I know that wouldn't have to happen. And I'll like the defense on the sideline, where it belongs.

2 points
2
0
Fubared's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:54 am

He does his own hair using a bowl from Halloween candy on his head.

-2 points
0
2
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:20 pm

In defense of Doug_In_Sandpoint, you should have seen what Mark Davis looked like prior to engaging Doug's expertise. I think Davis should always were an aviator's hat.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=jg9H1D9%2b&id=2A8D...

1 points
2
1
LeotisHarris's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:19 pm

Truth, TGR. Doug is widely respected as the Master of the Flowbee.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:59 pm

I want to read that as Frisbee, in context of that's what JB and MLF should be playing.

1 points
2
1
coolhand's picture

October 06, 2023 at 09:46 am

In a way I hope the Raiders run the ball down our throat so MLF will have no other option than to fire Barry. This defense with the talent it has should be so much better but the coaching is a disaster. And MLF has to keep Dillon off the field and go with Jones and Wilson and use their speed on sweeps and swing passes. And also, get Newman off the field as well and maybe put Nijman in a LT where he subbed for 69 and did a good job.

5 points
5
0
mnbadger's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:15 pm

I'm still hoping that murphy fires mlf.
Retain the others as we'll still need a staff in place to keep the team on the tracks till year end.
Bisachia as interim with potential to extend multi year contract and bring in talented people to fill out the staff so next year isn't wasted again.
GPG!

2 points
3
1
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:54 pm

Well Biasccia's group isn't playing all that well . . . maybe he's not the right HC.

1 points
2
1
SinceLombardi's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:24 pm

I would rather see MLF fired, that way Barry goes with him and we can get some real coaches in here.

2 points
2
0
White92's picture

October 07, 2023 at 10:51 am

I hate that I almost hope the Packers lose just to accelerate the exit of MLF

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

October 07, 2023 at 11:44 am

He's won over 70% of his games, and that puts him in Madden/Lombardi /Allen territory.

-1 points
0
1
Fubared's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:53 am

Ya if the Pack cough up a fur ball for the raiders game its lights out season over. The Raiders are vying for the top pick in the draft kind of team right now. They are neck and neck with the Bears. The Packers drop down a big rung on the can we compete lists for sure.

0 points
2
2
mnbadger's picture

October 06, 2023 at 12:10 pm

Thank you Jonathan for the logical and simple game plan that you offered to our coaching staff.
Unfortunately, they're not ready to read from “NFL Defense for Dummies” as they haven't completed all of the prerequisites yet.
With adequate film study, self review, fill in the cliche here, maybe mlf, jb etc. will be ready for such advanced schemes, preparation, planning and adjustment.
Pack 34 - raiders of the lost season 30
GPG!

1 points
3
2
TxFred's picture

October 06, 2023 at 01:34 pm

MLF's schemes & game plans don't mean squat, if the players don't execute the basic blocking, on run & pass plays. Helmet position, hands, shoulder pads, body ad footwork. On defense would be great to see some fundamental shoulder pad tackling.
Until their is fundamental improvements in the trenches, going to be a long year. Just hope the Raiders are not an ass kicking & smash mouth hitting kind of team. GPG

-2 points
1
3
LeotisHarris's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:33 pm

" Just hope the Raiders are not an ass kicking & smash mouth hitting kind of team."

Fred, one of the advantages of this internet machine is you can learn about other teams. No need to just hope. You can read about the Raiders, even watch moving pictures from previous games! They have all kinds of rating systems and what-all. It's really something! PFF gives the Raiders a 4.9 in Ass-kicking, and a B+ in Smashmouth. I'm not sure how woke they are (the NFL won't let PFF give a score for woke), but I'm pretty sure the Packers are tougher.

Do you think it would help if LaFleur started chewing leaf tobacco? How about just comping on a stogie?

0 points
1
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:02 pm

If the Raiders get a B+ in smash mouth, we're in trouble ...

2 points
2
0
Packers0808's picture

October 06, 2023 at 02:05 pm

To this day I still say letting Lewis go was wrong and now the proof is here, we NEEDED HIS BLOCKING ABILITIES now more than ever. And everyone to the last guy here called me crazy, he was too old. Now all you people do nothing but bitch about the Oline, oh well, been around football as a fan and coach for over 35 years coaching and fan much longer being 78 years old now.!

-2 points
2
4
LeotisHarris's picture

October 06, 2023 at 03:23 pm

It's best if you read this exclamation in the voice of Lou Holtz.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:04 pm

I never said a word about big dog. Don't know how much of an impact he'd have this year, either. Him and Adrian Amos are both looking like really bad decisions to let them walk ...

1 points
2
1
Packers0808's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:14 pm

Don't know who the folks were but I am going back to the sites I said them on and caught many, many thumbs down back at those times! Still got one today even with the horrendous Oline play the Pack is now experiencing. I even said on one of them if Bakh can't go Lewis would be needed even more!

2 points
2
0
Packers0808's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:48 pm

The Amos deal is as puzzling as they come.

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:16 pm

Tyler Davis was out for the year at the end of Summer Session. He performed better than Lewis as an edge blocker last season. He would have been a key ingredient for their wide zone scheme. Kraft and Musgrave should pick it up as they gain reps.

3 points
3
0
Packers0808's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:16 pm

Thumbs down with Bakh done in GB if not for good, the forseeable future, would the thumbs down clowns tell us your great for site as to what we should do?

1 points
1
0
fireball's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:02 pm

I don't know. Maybe all we can find out against the Raiders this coming Monday Night Football game is whether or not we're any better than we were last week against Detroit. Have we improved?

I think that's it. I think that's all we can do ( for the time being at least ) is try to find out whether or not we're better at playing professional football than we were last week. Blocking and tackling and receiving- that's it. Name of the game.

Relentless pursuit of perfection. Can you dig it?

Relentless. . .

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 06, 2023 at 04:05 pm

I notice running the ball was not included in your definition.

It's conditioning ...

1 points
1
0
fireball's picture

October 06, 2023 at 08:58 pm

Yeh, conditioning. . . " Fatigue makes cowards of us all. "

0 points
0
0
SinceLombardi's picture

October 06, 2023 at 07:36 pm

It’s not just blocking, tackling and receiving… it’s preparation, game planning and in game adjustments. Considering MLF is in year five , it’s doubtful he will catch on to any of these novel ideas.

2 points
2
0
packerfanroy's picture

October 06, 2023 at 11:46 pm

I think all the talk about firing MLF is pretty unwarranted and if it were to happen too quickly it would be a mistake.

I think Joe Barry is here because he is cheap first and foremost, runs the system the MM wants, and had a working relationship with MLF. He never should have been hired to begin with.

MLF has a lot of youth and injuries on the offensive side. I think it is smart to give him at least this season and half of next season before we start talking about firing him. The reason for this is because you dont want all these young players, and especially JLove, to have to learn an entirely new system. There are a lot of little details that don't transfer from one system to the next and firing MLF basically wipes out almost of our young players experience.

There has to be some accountability yes but also some stability. If it were easy for young players to make the jump from school ball to the pros the draft wouldn't be the crap shoot it is. You can't just throw out a bunch of draft picks on the field and say "OK, rebuild is done so go steal a Wild Card and show us that you will win the division next year".

Look at Detroit for comparison... Dan Campbell had a losing record the first 2 years. His team, despite all the cannibalistic coaching, wasn't winning until the second half of last year. You can say they had a tough schedule but that's kinda the point...the first half of the year they werent good enough to beat playoff quality teams. That's 1 1/2 years of not looking good enough. Thats with a good O-line and a veteran QB...

We trounced the Bears on the road. We lost a close game on the road we could have won, and a win at home we could have lost. We then got steamrolled by a team that has been rebuilding for 2 years and sees winning the division as just the first goal of many on their to do list.

We are rebuilding. It doesnt mean we can't steal a wild card or even win the division but IT'S NOT LIKELY AND NEVER WAS. The fact that we are 2-2 and not 0-4 or 1-3 means that the rebuild is a little further along than what most teams experience.

This year is about patience and seeing how the teams grows. Thats it. It is not about firing our head coach so we dont miss the playoffs.

0 points
0
0
Fubared's picture

October 07, 2023 at 04:51 pm

IM0 both teams are probably equal. should be a good game. fans in attendance will have fun. cant wait to see it wish i was there. Hit Me! lol

ps any of you fine people going to the game, if you want outstanding Chinese food, try Chin Chin, its in NyNy next to Gallaghers.

0 points
0
0
CanPackFan's picture

October 08, 2023 at 03:04 pm

Regardless if the Pack wins, i just want to see the end of the Joe Dingle Berry era. My fear is that if the Pack plays well, MLF will defer on a decision to let the DC go and end this ridiculous bromance.

0 points
0
0