"I've been skeptical of Lafleur's head coaching abilities after he hired and then retained Joe Barry for one season too long."

I've been skeptical that our HC has the ability to do all the things he tries to do as our HC since before he hired JB.

I also notice that after zillions of these posts getting 1 or 0 comments, this one is active.

Things that make me go hmmm ...

"Unlike some, I think he is an excellent OC. "

I also would prefer MLF as OC rather than HC. All his weaknesses fall within HC responsibilities, while all his strengths are within the OC job description..

The Packers almost never give third contracts to offensive linemen and for good reason - they are rarely productive and often injured during that third contract period. Jenkins was not going to be offered a third contract. He was replaced by a younger player who is beginning his second contract.

This is standard operating procedure for the Packers (and most other NFL teams) and every player and agent knows it. His "treatment" was no different than any other offensive lineman nearing the end of his second contract. He may not have liked it, but that is the NFL in the salary cap era.

Damning Gute for following NFL standard operating procedure is nonsense. He has other things you can criticize him for, but Jenkins isn't one of them.

You don't know any such thing as you claim. Why would you say something like that?!? No harm in pondering it, but stating it as though it were fact - just WHY?

Randy Wright—tsk tsk.

Most of Gutes picks fill the status Que.
It's what he could/should of had too.
When I look at the list.
I know he missed on better talent.
And for all his smarts.
Cb still is a problematic.

While I hoped for all-pros.
That just didn't happen ......

I would rather look at under- over-performance in evaluating draft picks. By that metric the results are less than positive. The real problem is the $$ awarded to players who have underperformed. Player evaluation is suspect. Some have handcuffed the cap and flexibility going forward. By that metric, Gute has failed miserably.

I get that most of you despise Alexander, but he was in no way a miss. DBs tend to have short careers. That’s just the way it is with smaller guys playing against bigger guys. Alexander played very well (2xAll-Pro, albeit 2nd team). for a while and got an extension/second contract. If that’s a miss, what’s a hit?

LVN and Musgrave are subs so far and should be counted as misses. I don’t know what the Packers think, but neither one should get a second contract.

My only problem was when Gute passed over CB Cooper Dejean to take Morgan.
Dejean is now a pro bowl CB with the Eagles. The jury is still out on Morgan

When evaluating early round picks, if we are honest, the following are not performing as an early-rounder should:

Van Ness is a Miss. (he has been given 3-4 years-he is average at best
Musgrave is a Miss. (Musgrave tackles poorly, has no YAC and has proprioception issues
Morgan is a Miss. (Morgan may improve, but will likely reflect a 3rd-4th round talent)
Q Walker is a Miss. (Walker is not consistent and is weakening again)
Gary is a Miss. (Gary has not operated as a #1 pick for most of his tenure, xcept in his contract year)

Alexander was a Hit.

If you wanted to get really interesting you should have included 3rd round picks. Holy cow, it seemed very little went right with 3rd rounders until Tucker Kraft, and quite possibly Rhyan. The 3rd used to have a curse that even predated Gute.

No way I would put Alexander as a miss. I didn't care for the guy towards the end and was glad they moved on from him but early on he was a great pick.

Gary has never played up to expectations, draft status, or his level of compensation. Not a hit, unless the level of hit is being just okay.

Walker only recently moved himself into the hit category. Before sharing the field with Cooper he was a miss for a 1st round pick. He has come around but is starting to get concerning again.

Thank you for seeking objectivity. I question the standard of "a hit" being giving a second contract, and your own words give credence to my thinking; sometimes it just doesn't follow. Each individual is unique.

Ja was great, until he wasn't. IIRC he got injured and then shied away from contact. Yes it matters if something like that happens in any given player's second or seventh season, (two arbitrary numbers chosen solely for the purpose of discussion) but no one making player acquisitions can see the future. I call that a good pick because he played well, in GB. Like #52, he got paid and under delivered. Maybe Gutey should somehow "know better," but I don't see how anyone can do anything more than see a player you want more of, and successfully negotiate not merely a contract to extend that one player but have an entire roster.

Frustrations abound right now and certainly some GMs seem to consistently out perform Gutey. I'm just not in favor of ditching key personnel without having a known improvement lined up. Even in the midst of our current "black hole," I think this team at full strength is right on the cusp of greatness with the biggest need being 100% effort from every player, on every down, in every game. Had that become a habit before last season this season would have at least a couple more wins and I fail to see how this doesn't reflect on our HC.

Team structure: does HC have full autonomy over the rest of the coaching staff? I mean, I can't imagine MLF butting heads with everyone else in the organization and demanding anything in this regard and that can be both a strength and a weakness, but in theory is this how it works? Discussion over Murphy's change to limit GM authority has been discussed, but as far as I can tell what I'm asking here is just assumed by most, without actually knowing. 1265 seems to like keeping some secrets, but this specific might actually be known? It seems really significant to me because the coaching staff as a whole has responsibility to try to motivate millionaire players ...

While everyone is lamenting our favorite team, I'll voice two huge heartbreaks for me personally in the names of Eric Stokes and AJ Dillon. Both misses, certainly. Stokes speed is (was?) ELITE. Even upon setting foot for his first time after returning from injury, clearly not at his best, his straight line speed jumped off the field when the rest of the 90 man roster was on it. He was doing individual drills and I can't imagine he was cutting at 100% effort, and his sheer ability / talent was undeniable! And yet he never turned that into being a football player.

AJ Dillon (Quadzilla) has physical attributes like King Henry. Even if he's too slow to be a great RB he could still be a GREAT FB / lead blocker, and he's also a great human being. Is he just too nice and lacks the violence for the position? I don't know. #8 has that even while being substantially lighter, and I just wish MLF had held him in reserve more upon his knee injury; dressed on game day but only sent in when nothing else is working. But these two picks were definitely misses, and painfully so.

Jordan Morgan: obviously still a TBD, but it's worth celebrating the fact that he plays well as a T, even though he has not as a G. Drafted to be a LT, he has yet to be tried at that position; he's clearly better on the left side. I hope playing on the right side of the line hasn't damaged his ability to play on the left side.

I don't blame coaches for trying him at RG, and completely understand the desire to get him reps when and where possible. HOWEVER, after sucking repeatedly, why stubbornly insist on continuing? "Trying something out" shouldn't mean being married to such an obvious mistake. Is this as simple as "GB hates Sean Rhyan?" (GB hates Malik Heath and he's finally gone, but he came through for us repeatedly, in very difficult situations)

These are the sorts of things I'm most disgruntled at MLF over. Player development can never be an exact science but COME ON!

LVN and Musgrave: I find it easy to lump these two in the same category. Both contributed early, neither seem significantly better than their rookie year. Right before injury LVN did improve both on the stat sheet and per my own eye test. I'll admit my bias for a hockey playing skier, and will root for him to develop into the "monster" player he was drafted to be but we have not yet seen. As a pure effort player, he does make plays. Not due to technique, just "non stop motor." You'd expect more improvement than that :/ Hopefully Micah Parsons can create that result where all else has failed ...

Musgrave should maybe do what Gronk did to improve his balance and body control? Falling immediately upon making a stunning catch still has value and he'll never be Tucker Kraft, but "room for improvement" is beyond obvious. Has Malik Willis connected with him for an explosive play yet?

People calling for either of these two to be cut are just silly; obviously GB will have them play out their rookie contracts, but re-signing either before they demonstrate more improvement would be ... beyond sketchy.

So I guess that's it then. You get to decide which players are a hit or miss. Good to know.

The problem with trying to evaluate any pick by who they skipped instead is it relies on hindsight. You also attempt to compare players at different positions entirely, which doesn't work when the strategy is to build a complete team. (I'll grant that picking Josh Myers over Creed Humphrey was a huge mistake having impact for maybe a decade or more, but I also understand the thinking behind that decision and I won't fault Gutey for that. Especially in light of Sean Rhyan's mistakes playing C)

Yes.

Everyone suggests Jenkins is gone—but I’m not sure?